Author Topic: Full Timers - What Do You Do For Health Insurance? (Read 24145 times)

gostwyck · « **Reply #25 on:** September 14, 2011, 12:19 »

Quote from: klsbear on September 14, 2011, 12:08

Of course you could end up paying in other ways too. When I was diagnosed with a condition that required surgery I was able to get that scheduled within 2 weeks. Canadians on a forum for those suffering from the same condition were waiting about 8 months to get approved to get the surgery. Some from England had been waiting over a year and had still not been approved for the surgery. I've rather pay and have quick access than wait forever for government approvals on my health needs.

Nothing to stop you having private health insurance in addition to the 'government cover'. Lots of people do and it's a fairly standard benefit of a decent job. It tends to be much cheaper than in the USA as, generally speaking, it doesn't need to provide cover for chronic conditions, etc.

Sadstock · « **Reply #26 on:** September 14, 2011, 13:10 »

Quote from: john_woodcock on September 14, 2011, 10:51

Quote
but I don't think it should be free.

You don't think healthcare should be free? Why is that? I'd consider it a basic right, along with education. But of course we're all commies here in Europeland ;-)

----------------------------------
For those who don't follow the U.S. presidential debates
http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/09/tea-partiers-cheer-to-let-uninsured-die-ron-paul-says-let-churches-help/

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #27 on:** September 15, 2011, 02:28 »

Quote from: Sadstock on September 14, 2011, 13:10

Quote from: john_woodcock on September 14, 2011, 10:51
Quote
but I don't think it should be free.

You don't think healthcare should be free? Why is that? I'd consider it a basic right, along with education. But of course we're all commies here in Europeland ;-)

----------------------------------
For those who don't follow the U.S. presidential debates
http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/09/tea-partiers-cheer-to-let-uninsured-die-ron-paul-says-let-churches-help/

Bizarre. So your neighbours and friends should stump up for your health bills - just so your neighbours and friends don't have to pay health tax.

Whatever way you look at it, healthcare is never free. The only question is whether society wants to protect its members or not.

jsmithzz · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2011, 05:57 »

Wow. Lots of interesting responses.

I also agree that I should pay something and also agree that I shouldn't have to pay through the roof. As it stands, I would have to pay about $500 per month for COBRA coverage which lasts for 18 months. After that, I could keep my coverage but the rate would double to $1,000 per month. And this is coverage for ONE PERSON. Ridiculous.

I will say that I can always get in to see a doctor, sometimes on the same day. And the couple of more major things I've had done along with scans and such, I've never had to wait more than a week. But on the flip side, it costs a lot of money that many Americans these days don't have.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2011, 06:25 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on September 15, 2011, 02:28

Whatever way you look at it, healthcare is never free. The only question is whether society wants to protect its members or not.

Right. So how far exactly does a country need to go to "protect its members"? Why not just make everything free for everybody? Everybody needs shelter so let the government provide that. Everybody needs food too so how about the government provides that also? Oh wait. Somebody has to pay for all of this?

Here in the USA the ever increasing programs to protect its members are creating a growing society of people who spend their lives on various welfare programs. And it has become expected that if you are unable, or more commonly are unwilling, to help yourself that there's a government program for you. Lose your job? Why get a job at the local convenience store for $9 per hour when you can sit on your a$$ for two years making $10 per hour from the government? Oh and you lost your job yet again because you showed up late or drunk every day and this time you injured yourself? That's okay. If you need healthcare one of the local hospitals will take care of you and your bill because your historic level of income is considered to be at the poverty level.

Back on topic. I got a quote for insurance for my family and a decent program similar to what my job offers would be in the $1,200 - $1,500 per month range.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #30 on:** September 15, 2011, 06:32 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 06:25

Here in the USA the ever increasing programs to protect its members are creating a growing society of people who spend their lives on various welfare programs. And it has become expected that if you are unable, or more commonly are unwilling, to help yourself that there's a government program for you.

Exactly. Thus the current backlash against all the "entitlement" programs. (I'm "entitled" to this, and "entitled" to that, so give it to me free)

gostwyck · « **Reply #31 on:** September 15, 2011, 06:43 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 06:25

Back on topic. I got a quote for insurance for my family and a decent program similar to what my job offers would be in the $1,200 - $1,500 per month range.

That's ridiculous. A worker on minimum wage in the UK would barely earn that in total. How can 'healthcare' possibly cost that much to provide?

red · « **Reply #32 on:** September 15, 2011, 07:30 »

Why is healthcare in the US so expensive? Here is a good synopsis -
http://moneyland.time.com/2010/02/25/why-is-health-care-so-expensive-let-us-count-the-conspirators/
The bullet points are -
Insurance Companies are businesses
No electronic records
Perverse incentives
Malpractice madness
Statistics
Premium pricing in the ER
We're fat
We take more pills
No shopping across state lines
What do I owe

ShadySue · « **Reply #33 on:** September 15, 2011, 07:32 »

Quote from: gostwyck on September 15, 2011, 06:43

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 06:25
Back on topic. I got a quote for insurance for my family and a decent program similar to what my job offers would be in the $1,200 - $1,500 per month range.

That's ridiculous. A worker on minimum wage in the UK would barely earn that in total. How can 'healthcare' possibly cost that much to provide?

it certainly makes National Insurance seem incredibly good value, at least by comparison.

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #34 on:** September 15, 2011, 07:33 »

If I would have stayed in the government health insurance me and my wife (she is also working) would probably have to pay $1400 a month here in Germany. So I decided to go privately and we are down to around $900 together. But at least the coverage is pretty good. It is amazing how expensive insurance is if you are are self-employed.

fujiko · « **Reply #35 on:** September 15, 2011, 08:52 »

Healthcare is never free.

I prefer tax paid healthcare provided by governments instead of private healthcare provided by 'for profit' companies.

Healthcare is one of those things I believe that have to be provided at a 'loss' instead of 'for profit' because the profit on healthcare is healthy people. A healthy society is a profit by itself.

You can't really trust a 'for profit' healthcare system to take care of your health if you are not profitable. They can only care for people that has enough money to be profitable or people that is already healthy.

Microbius · « **Reply #36 on:** September 15, 2011, 09:11 »

I can't believe how much people are saying healthcare cost in the US!
It's more than my total tax bill for the year and I get some police thrown in on that too.
And they say the market can provide things more efficiently, what a joke.
There also seems to be a lot of misinformation about the efficiency of healthcare in the UK, not surprising when big business has so much to lose if government healthcare comes in. I have never had to wait an unreasonable amount of time for treatment and have had relatives with everything from bowl cancer to TB and they've never had any problems either.
Same with investigative procedures, I've never heard of anyone being refused if they ask fir something specifically.

I think one of the problems is that government is no longer thought of as expressing the collective will of the people, business has done such a great job of convincing us they are our friends, instead of just a government minus the accountability.

RapidEye · « **Reply #37 on:** September 15, 2011, 16:25 »

Quote from: Microbius on September 15, 2011, 09:11

I think one of the problems is that government is no longer thought of as expressing the collective will of the people, business has done such a great job of convincing us they are our friends, instead of just a government minus the accountability.

Very true. A creeping coup d'etat by business is occurring in many parts of the world. Eventually so much of the public sphere will be private that elections won't matter any more (not that they matter a whole lot already, the way things are structured).

Charlie Chaplin denounced fascists as "machine men with machine hearts"; nowadays, we still have machine men but their hearts are of money.

XPTO · « **Reply #38 on:** September 15, 2011, 17:00 »

Quote from: cuppacoffee on September 14, 2011, 08:29

"(health) I don't think it should be free."

I don't hesitate for a moment to classify this statement as crime against humanity.

It's shameful someone thinks like this. The right to access healthcare is among the most basic human rights along with food, water, and even before education.

I'm proud to be European in this matter and would be ashamed to be from a country that let people die because they simply cannot afford treatments, or send good, honest, hardworking people to absolute and total ruin just because they had a misfortune to get sick. The idea is just nauseating.

And we don't need to let the government treat us exclusively. There's always the chance to buy an health insurance plan (deductible on taxes) that will give you access to faster appointments and a larger freedom to choose doctors, which by the way, are the same doctors who would treat you on public hospital since they work both on public and private hospitals.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #39 on:** September 15, 2011, 17:38 »

Quote from: XPTO on September 15, 2011, 17:00

Quote from: cuppacoffee on September 14, 2011, 08:29
"(health) I don't think it should be free."

I don't hesitate for a moment to classify this statement as crime against humanity.

It's shameful someone thinks like this. The right to access healthcare is among the most basic human rights along with food, water, and even before education.

I'm proud to be European in this matter and would be ashamed to be from a country that let people die because they simply cannot afford treatments, or send good, honest, hardworking people to absolute and total ruin just because they had a misfortune to get sick. The idea is just nauseating.

And we don't need to let the government treat us exclusively. There's always the chance to buy an health insurance plan (deductible on taxes) that will give you access to faster appointments and a larger freedom to choose doctors, which by the way, are the same doctors who would treat you on public hospital since they work both on public and private hospitals.

The USA is trying to move toward a program where everyone has insurance.

If you wouldn't mind me asking, what percentage of your income ends up in your pocket after taxes?

trek · « **Reply #40 on:** September 15, 2011, 18:35 »

Insurance companies cannot be trusted. Rescinding coverage for people who dare to get sick and denying coverage for those with pre-existing conditions is what brought us to Obamacare in the first place.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #41 on:** September 15, 2011, 19:29 »

"I'm proud to be European in this matter and would be ashamed to be from a country that let people die because they simply cannot afford treatments"

Where do you draw the line? Does the government (you/me) pay for someone's million dollar treatment? Is 100,000 too much? 100,000 a month? What?

jsmithzz · « **Reply #42 on:** September 15, 2011, 20:03 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 17:38

The USA is trying to move toward a program where everyone has insurance.

If you wouldn't mind me asking, what percentage of your income ends up in your pocket after taxes?
[/quote]
Half of America is moving willingly towards it while half of Congress is trying to unravel those plans.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #43 on:** September 15, 2011, 21:55 »

Quote from: jsmithzz on September 15, 2011, 20:03

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 17:38

The USA is trying to move toward a program where everyone has insurance.

If you wouldn't mind me asking, what percentage of your income ends up in your pocket after taxes?

Half of America is moving willingly towards it while half of Congress is trying to unravel those plans.
[/quote]

The overall plan is to make it mandatory for people to buy insurance at a reasonable rate and remove provider restrictions such as refusing people who have pre-existing conditions. A novel effort but people in the USA can buy basic plans now for around $500 per month. If they supposedly can't afford it now, how will making it mandatory help?

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #44 on:** September 15, 2011, 21:58 »

One more thing to add. I still pay $500 per month for insurance. My employer is covering the rest which is probably another $600-$700 per month.

Sadstock · « **Reply #45 on:** September 15, 2011, 23:15 »

Quote from: sjlocke on September 15, 2011, 06:32

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on September 15, 2011, 06:25
Here in the USA the ever increasing programs to protect its members are creating a growing society of people who spend their lives on various welfare programs. And it has become expected that if you are unable, or more commonly are unwilling, to help yourself that there's a government program for you.

Exactly. Thus the current backlash against all the "entitlement" programs. (I'm "entitled" to this, and "entitled" to that, so give it to me free)

------------------------------------------
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-11-2011/lactate-intolerance

Whiz · « **Reply #46 on:** September 15, 2011, 23:17 »

Quote from: Freezingpictures on September 15, 2011, 07:33

If I would have stayed in the government health insurance me and my wife (she is also working) would probably have to pay $1400 a month here in Germany. So I decided to go privately and we are down to around $900 together. But at least the coverage is pretty good. It is amazing how expensive insurance is if you are are self-employed.

Fourteen hundred a month? How much do other countries who have government health care pay per month? Personally, I do not mind private health care. As long as it is fairly priced, and the insurance company can not drop me when I become ill. But I am still reasonably young and healthy, so my health care is reasonably cheap ($140 a month). I am under no illusions that it will continue to be affordable as I age. The only question is which will be more affordable and beneficial? A government health care plan or a for profit one? If the government plan is more beneficial, then I am going to vote for that one. And vice versa. I do not have any issues with socialism when it comes to health care. Especially, health care for critical issues like a failing organ or something along those lines.

Right now this is what the new US health care law does.

Pre-existing conditions can no longer disqualify someone from insurance.
You can not be dropped anymore if you become ill.
Annual limits have been abolished.
Mandatory insurance. If an individual earns around $14,700 or more a year then they must purchase insurance. If you earn under that, then you are put on Medicaid. Add a few thousand dollars to that $14,700 for each additional family member. So a family of four with one person working and earning $20,000 a year would be put on Medicaid if I understand it correctly. This starts in 2014. You will be fined if you do not bother buying health insurance after 2014. Until then, it does not matter.
The donut hole for seniors is slowly closing. This makes some medications cheaper.
It allows young adults under 26 to stay on their parents plan.
Companies with over 50 full time employees have to buy health care plans for them in the future. Though, they are currently receiving waivers from the government to delay implementation of this part of the law.
And it goes on and on. It's long and complex, but I think I got most of it right. And the mandatory insurance bit could be repealed by the Supreme Court.
The parts of this new health care law that I like are the abolition of annual limits, and the fact that my health care company can not drop me anymore. I'm indifferent to the mandatory insurance.

I think health care in the US should go something like this.

One plan for critical issues that goes into effect the day you are born.
You can never be dropped from this plan.
Everyone with an income level (including investments) would pay into this plan. Use a flat tax if you like.
Healthy individuals can use this plan for one doctor visit per year; more visits than this for a healthy person will come out of their own pocket or other insurance plan.
As we age or become critically ill, more doctor visits would be allowed.
You can never be dropped from the plan.
Certain types of screenings are covered. Like preventative type items for cancer and whatnot.
Medication that exceeds an individual's ability to pay are covered.
Dental covered to some degree.

stockmarketer · « **Reply #47 on:** September 15, 2011, 23:29 »

So government should just pay for everything for everyone. OK.

Has anyone been reading the financial news these days about Europe teetering on financial collapse? Greeks riot because it's suggested they should work past their 50s. The whole country is about to go bankrupt. China may be stepping in to bail out Italy. Not to simplify things too much... there are lots of causes for the financial catastrophe that's just around the corner... but the idea that someone should expect the government to provide for your every need is certainly a contributing factor.

Whiz · « **Reply #48 on:** September 15, 2011, 23:49 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on September 15, 2011, 23:29

So government should just pay for everything for everyone. OK.

Has anyone been reading the financial news these days about Europe teetering on financial collapse? Greeks riot because it's suggested they should work past their 50s. The whole country is about to go bankrupt. China may be stepping in to bail out Italy. Not to simplify things too much... there are lots of causes for the financial catastrophe that's just around the corner... but the idea that someone should expect the government to provide for your every need is certainly a contributing factor.

Not everything, just certain things that are beyond the average taxpayers abilities to pay. For example, Lasik eye surgery. No, the government should not pay for that. It is not a critical health care need. I mean sight is important and all, but you can still just buy glasses or contact lenses from the private market.

rubyroo · « **Reply #49 on:** September 16, 2011, 02:35 »

It's true that they have to draw the line somewhere, and there have been some odd (to me) cases in the UK where, for example, a young teenage girl had breast augmentation because it was deemed that her breast size was mentally damaging to her.

Personally I would have rather seen her learn to have a more useful perspective on life, but I don't make the rules. It's up to governments to legislate on what free treatment should and should not cover, and I certaiinly feel that cosmetic treatments should only be free for those who who have been severely disfigured by injuries. "Where the line is drawn" is something that evolves over time, as new scenarios arise.

But on the whole, the NHS works for most people, and both the public and the medics come out in force to protest when anything appears to be threatening it. Many people in the UK who can afford private health insurance do have it, and we have plenty of private hospitals too. In some cases people choose to pay because they prefer the private room of a private hospital to a multiple-bed ward in an NHS one; in other cases because they act with altruism in not wishing to take up a hospital bed from someone who needs free treatment more than they do.

Paulie Walnuts asked about tax. I can give the current bands for the UK:

Up to £7,475 no tax is paid (said to be increasing to £10,000)
Any portion of salary between £7,475 and £35,000 20% tax is paid
Any portion of salary between £35,000 and £150,000 40% tax
Any portion of salary over £150,000 50% tax (but the 50% band may be scrapped)

(Edited for clarity... hopefully).

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Author Topic: Full Timers - What Do You Do For Health Insurance? (Read 24145 times)

gostwyck

Sadstock

BaldricksTrousers

jsmithzz

PaulieWalnuts

Sean Locke Photography

gostwyck

red

ShadySue

Freezingpictures

fujiko

Microbius

RapidEye

XPTO

PaulieWalnuts

trek

Sean Locke Photography

jsmithzz

PaulieWalnuts

PaulieWalnuts

Sadstock

Whiz

stockmarketer

Whiz

rubyroo

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