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Author Topic: Full Timers - What Do You Do For Health Insurance?  (Read 23923 times)

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« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2011, 18:25 »
0

CT Scan
120 - my country - this was the least expensive but depending on area it can cost a maximum of 160
$698 - USA  :o - this was the minimum but I saw numbers like $2000 or $3000 or $8000!

EKG
12 - my country
$470 - USA  :o  :o  :o - but it can go up to $2850

Cardiac Stress Test
100 - my country
$1100 - USA  :o  :o  :o - but it can go up to $10.000

Wow, that's ridiculous. :o

A few years ago I had EKG, CT, Cardiac Stress Test and didn't pay a cent. Everything was done on modern equipment.
Our health insurance costs about 15% of the gross salary, about 7% is paid by the employer, about 8% by the employee. You can buy additional private insurance if you want. If you visit a doctor you pay 10 , but you pay it only once in a quarter, no matter how often you visit your doctor.  
My doctor's office is in the house next to mine :) I can't really complain.
Our GDP per capita is somewhat lower than in the US, but our debt is much lower and we have lower unemployment.
I visited the US 3 times as a student and I must say that for the average person the quality of life is much higher in Western / Northern Europe. On the other hand, the really rich in the US have much more money than the rich in Europe.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 18:59 by Snufkin »


« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2011, 19:13 »
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Why is healthcare in the US so expensive? Here is a good synopsis -
http://moneyland.time.com/2010/02/25/why-is-health-care-so-expensive-let-us-count-the-conspirators/
The bullet points are -
Insurance Companies are businesses
No electronic records
Perverse incentives
Malpractice madness
Statistics
Premium pricing in the ER
We're fat
We take more pills
No shopping across state lines
What do I owe


And lobbyists pouring big bucks into their political coffers
And party line ideologies (Libs vs. indep vs conservs)
And ignoring constituent voice
And too many regulations
And too many singular political beliefs pushing theirs on the masses
And block and tackle to resolve the real barriers to a robust, cost effective system (tort reform)

Just sayin.

« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2011, 19:16 »
0
A question. In USA if you have no money and you get hit by a car and have a broken leg/pelvis what happens at the moment. Is there any safety net ?

Yes, care is free.
As I understand it, you won't be denied entry into an ER if you show up and need urgent care, but the hospital will definitely send you the bill afterwards.

So if you had no money they would take you to court and take your cardboard box you sleep in ? Or is there some budget allowed for cases like this built into everybody elses costs they pay.

Are all the hospitals privately owned and run for profit or are there like community ones or ones run by things like the church etc that are not for profit.

« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2011, 20:02 »
0
Hospitals in the US typically bill uninsured individuals 4X what they receive from insuranced or medicare patients.  Many people never pay.  Others lose their homes.   Half of all bankruptcies in the US are medical care - cost related. 

« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2011, 20:40 »
0
Hospitals in the US typically bill uninsured individuals 4X what they receive from insurance or medicare patients.  Many people never pay.  Others lose their homes.   Half of all bankruptcies in the US are medical care - cost related. 

---------------------------------------------
Once you've lost your job, gone bankrupt or otherwise have no money, then you may qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program that pays for certain medical services for certain people. 

Some US hospitals are for profit, others are non-profit.  US hospitals are required by law to provide services to anyone who has a health emergency regardless of their ability to pay.  After they treat you, they will try to get you to pay.  If they can't get you to pay, the hospital has to suffer the loss.  So people with health insurance have to pay enough when they go to a hospital to fund the hospitals continuing operation.  If not, the hospital will close since it can't pay its bills.

So ultimately U.S. citizens already pay for the health care through higher insurance premiums to pay for those who don't have insurance or through the taxes that fund Medicaid.  So really the big difference between Europe and the US providing health care to the very sick is that the US system requires that the uninsured be driven into bankruptcy first or become so sick that the hospital can't turn them away. 

« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2011, 20:55 »
0
Why is healthcare in the US so expensive? Here is a good synopsis -
http://moneyland.time.com/2010/02/25/why-is-health-care-so-expensive-let-us-count-the-conspirators/
The bullet points are -
Insurance Companies are businesses
No electronic records
Perverse incentives
Malpractice madness
Statistics
Premium pricing in the ER
We're fat
We take more pills
No shopping across state lines
What do I owe


And lobbyists pouring big bucks into their political coffers
And party line ideologies (Libs vs. indep vs conservs)
And ignoring constituent voice
And too many regulations
And too many singular political beliefs pushing theirs on the masses
And block and tackle to resolve the real barriers to a robust, cost effective system (tort reform)

Just sayin.


Tort reform? Thirty-eight states already have some form of it in place, and my state is one of them. The price of my health care does not seem to be that much cheaper because of it, though. But we do seem to have attracted a lot of doctors. Of course, an individual can't sue their doctor for more than $750,000 if they do something wrong. Like chop off a leg wrong, if I understood it correctly.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 00:32 by Whiz »

« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2011, 21:09 »
0
Doesn't sound like a good situation to me.

Its not perfect here in Australia by any means, but you don't have to be bankrupted if you get hit by a car by your medical bills.

The public hospitals provide all the emergency type care and extreme surgery such as transplants etc.

Private hospitals are more for having a baby, non emergency hospital stays and elective surgery like orthopedic type stuff.

If you have a non-critical operation you need eg knee surgery in the public system you will get it for free but have to wait a long time. If you have the money or your own private insurance you may only have to wait a couple of weeks and have it done at private hospital with the surgeon of your choice.

You can go to the GP for nothing if you go to a bulk billing clinic and wait but typically it would cost about $30 out of pocket after government rebate to go to GP. Prescription medications are subsidised by the government but they have to be on an approved list. If you have a health care card (for very low income earners etc.) its like $4 for a script.

The latest new drugs might not be on the list and you have to pay full price yourself.  

Our taxes are higher than a lot of other countries and there is also GST tax of 10% on everything except healthcare,food and education.  

« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2011, 00:34 »
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So if I travel overseas to Australia as a tourist, will I be covered temporarily under Australia's health care system? I'm thinking no, but thought I'd ask anyway.

« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2011, 00:43 »
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So if I travel overseas to Australia as a tourist, will I be covered temporarily under Australia's health care system? I'm thinking no, but thought I'd ask anyway.

Depends.  Italy, UK and a few other countries do have reciprical arrangements but in general, no.  You will need your own travel insurance (check major credit card inclusions - some are very good, but you generally have to pay for the travel on the CC).

XPTO

« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2011, 01:31 »
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So if I travel overseas to Australia as a tourist, will I be covered temporarily under Australia's health care system? I'm thinking no, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I never hard that a tourist had to pay anything in my country if he needs to go to a hospital. At least more than a national citizen.

In fact a close family member of a HUGE American politician had an health problem when visiting my country, it was taken to a public hospital and got treatment. And it seemed to have been good treatment since that very important American politician thanked a lot for the care given to his relative. Never heard they were requested to paid for a thing or have they offered to pay for it, since he belongs to a party fiercely against any kind of social medicine...

Despite neither of them haver contributed to my country's Social Security system, I'm proud that she was taken care without hesitation and don't care if they used my taxes for it. It's a question of human rights.

« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2011, 01:48 »
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So if I travel overseas to Australia as a tourist, will I be covered temporarily under Australia's health care system? I'm thinking no, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I never hard that a tourist had to pay anything in my country if he needs to go to a hospital. At least more than a national citizen.

In fact a close family member of a HUGE American politician had an health problem when visiting my country, it was taken to a public hospital and got treatment. And it seemed to have been good treatment since that very important American politician thanked a lot for the care given to his relative. Never heard they were requested to paid for a thing or have they offered to pay for it, since he belongs to a party fiercely against any kind of social medicine...

Despite neither of them haver contributed to my country's Social Security system, I'm proud that she was taken care without hesitation and don't care if they used my taxes for it. It's a question of human rights.

What is your country XPTO?

XPTO

« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2011, 02:39 »
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What is your country XPTO?

I'm in Portugal. And the politician I was mentioning was John McCain - the former rival of Obama in the last elections - and the relative was his mother.

And before people start pointing fingers to the pre-catastrophe economic situation of Portugal and mentioning the healthcare system as a source for the financial trouble I'll skip ahead and say that the healthcare system is far from being the main source of problems.

In fact the main expense of the State, and responsible for the debt that took us to ask for help of the IMF and UE, are the salaries of the public workers which account for over 70% of the expense, many of which are working in hundreds of useless foundations, redundant to each other, doing nothing just to employ friends, family and divert money from the state to the parties that are at the time in the government...

Or to heavily subsidize rich private schools with the excuse that in their area the offer in Public Education is not enough, so they can accept students from the public system there, when in fact many of these private schools are just a few hundred meters away from new and modern public schools... When you look at the owners of those private schools... they belong to the governmental parties...

Not to mention all the corruption, incompetence and nepotism associated with the two parties that alternate in the government, and the destruction of the economy, courtesy of the UE production quotas favoring richer countries.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg, but this is not an economy topic so I won't elongate.

Just to repeat that the National Healthcare System is the least of the problems, despite the new minister, until now the president of the biggest health insurance company in Portugal  :o - isn't here a kind of conflict of interests (?), already started to try to dismantle the NHS.

« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2011, 03:20 »
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QWERTY above said it well for Australia.  But if I could add that in general our public health system (Medicare) is all inclusive (not dental though unless you have a chronic condition, when dental is covered in some circumstances). There is a 1.5% salary levy, in reality an extra percentage on tax to help pay for it with some additional top up from general revenue. 

The end result, as QWERTY outlined is that if someone falls over in the street with a heart attack or equally urgent condition then there is no issue of delay for treatment or  the possibility that the citizen concerned has a sell-your-house moment or faces a bill of any kind.  This is comforting.  Most people down on their luck in this country are there through unfortunate circumstances. Of course there are people who simply will take all they can from other tax payers, but they really are in the minority.   

Most here top up our cover with private health insurance.  I get top private cover for around $250 per month.  This is affordable for most people on the average wage or above.

The figures quoted above for the US boggles the mind.  How do lower paid workers afford that type of cover if not covered by their employer, what about if a worker is retrenched how do they get cover? 

The issue of the million dollar treatment mention by some is a red herring.  Sure, a very minimal number of such cases would occur, but the vast majority of individual treatment costs would not come near that.

Is it true that up until recently, a health insurance company in the US could refuse cover for pre-existing illnesses, put a cap on treatment, or refuse to reinsure someone who developed a chronic condition?    If so, that such a wealthy country could allow that to happen is a disgrace.   There are ways to provide a safety net health care system without bankrupting a country. 

Most civilized developed countries are already doing it.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2011, 03:44 »
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Paulie Walnuts asked about tax.  I can give the current bands for the UK:
Up to 7,475 no tax is paid  (said to be increasing to 10,000)
Any portion of salary between 7,475 and 35,000  20% tax is paid
Any portion of salary between 35,000 and 150,000  40% tax
Any portion of salary over 150,000  50% tax (but the 50% band may be scrapped)


For clarity for anyone reading this who may not know, the above is true for Income Tax, but UK health care is funded from National Insurance, which is an 'extra' tax, also income related. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance

« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2011, 04:34 »
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If I would have stayed in the government health insurance me and my wife (she is also working) would probably have to pay $1400 a month here in Germany. So I decided to go privately and we are down to around $900 together. But at least the coverage is pretty good. It is amazing how expensive insurance is if you are are self-employed.

We can of course throw out numbers like this - which ignores that health insurance amounts for government subsidiced insurance if you are employed is tied to the height of your income, so 1400$ for two may sound outrageously high, but it is at 15.5 percent out of your paycheck (I for instance pay about 150 a month or 1800 per year). Only "high earners-" who are employed, civic servants or self-employed have (to my knowledge) the option to shop for private insurance in Germany.  Oh, and my health insurance payments are (partially) tax-deductible.

« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2011, 05:02 »
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So if I travel overseas to Australia as a tourist, will I be covered temporarily under Australia's health care system? I'm thinking no, but thought I'd ask anyway.

As said by someone else there are countries that have agreements with Australia. You look after our guys we'll look after yours.  I think its safe to say that if your thinking of going to Australia to get some health care you would be able to get it already in your own country.

If you were in Australia as a tourist (from a country without the agreement) and fell ill they would accept you at the hospital and you would get a bill. I doubt they would stop you leaving the country. Anything that was anything like elective surgery you would have to pay upfront.

« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2011, 08:05 »
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"The issue of the million dollar treatment mention by some is a red herring.  Sure, a very minimal number of such cases would occur, but the vast majority of individual treatment costs would not come near that."

Minimal?  At the least, we are a nation of obese people, racking up treatments for diabetes, heart transplants, bypass surgeries.  Smoking, cancers, AIDS.... It's easy to pile up the bills.

« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2011, 09:10 »
0
Health care costs can add up very quickly in the US. Two years ago I broke my arm while snowboarding in Colorado. I underwent 5 hours of surgery, and spend 3 nights in the hospital. The total bills for that came to $112,000, not including the follow-up physical therapy. Quite ridiculous. Its easy to see how uninsured people in the US go bankrupt when they have medical problems.



"The issue of the million dollar treatment mention by some is a red herring.  Sure, a very minimal number of such cases would occur, but the vast majority of individual treatment costs would not come near that."

Minimal?  At the least, we are a nation of obese people, racking up treatments for diabetes, heart transplants, bypass surgeries.  Smoking, cancers, AIDS.... It's easy to pile up the bills.

« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2011, 09:11 »
0
"The issue of the million dollar treatment mention by some is a red herring.  Sure, a very minimal number of such cases would occur, but the vast majority of individual treatment costs would not come near that."

Minimal?  At the least, we are a nation of obese people, racking up treatments for diabetes, heart transplants, bypass surgeries.  Smoking, cancers, AIDS.... It's easy to pile up the bills.

And unfortunately there are too many people here that would rather just take a pill for it than treat the root cause.  A lot of those treatments could be made unnecessary if the patient would just lose weight, stop smoking, etc.  Seeing how well our government is managing medicaid fraud, social security, welfare, etc. makes me very reluctant to let them start managing my health care.  

« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2011, 10:04 »
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"The issue of the million dollar treatment mention by some is a red herring.  Sure, a very minimal number of such cases would occur, but the vast majority of individual treatment costs would not come near that."

Minimal?  At the least, we are a nation of obese people, racking up treatments for diabetes, heart transplants, bypass surgeries.  Smoking, cancers, AIDS.... It's easy to pile up the bills.

And unfortunately there are too many people here that would rather just take a pill for it than treat the root cause.  A lot of those treatments could be made unnecessary if the patient would just lose weight, stop smoking, etc.  Seeing how well our government is managing medicaid fraud, social security, welfare, etc. makes me very reluctant to let them start managing my health care.  

I'm with you on that.

It's rare to go a dr. here in the US that doesn't right off prescribe "medication" to take care of whatever ails you. For gosh sakes, they now prescribe medication if you have dry eyes, or if you don't have enough eyelashes. Somebody has to pay for those expensive pills.

« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2011, 10:07 »
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an excerpt from the documentary "Sicko"


Great movie.  A real eye-opener. 

I'd like to see that.

rubyroo

« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2011, 10:11 »
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Not enough eyelashes?  Wow.

Who decides how many are not enough or too many?

« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2011, 10:23 »
0
A question. In USA if you have no money and you get hit by a car and have a broken leg/pelvis what happens at the moment. Is there any safety net ?

Yes, care is free.
As I understand it, you won't be denied entry into an ER if you show up and need urgent care, but the hospital will definitely send you the bill afterwards.

So if you had no money they would take you to court and take your cardboard box you sleep in ? Or is there some budget allowed for cases like this built into everybody elses costs they pay.

Are all the hospitals privately owned and run for profit or are there like community ones or ones run by things like the church etc that are not for profit.

It will be transitioned to Medicade, which is the free insurance for the poor.

« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2011, 10:35 »
0
an excerpt from the documentary "Sicko"


Great movie.  A real eye-opener. 

I'd like to see that.

Hope you don't have too many eyelashes or you'll not be able to see it !

« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2011, 10:41 »
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Don't forget you can get excellent health care at private hospitals in Asia, Singapore, Malaysia, India at 25-30% of the costs in the US. A friend had his gall bladder removed in a private hospital in state of Washington, was in hospital for 4 nights, his bills came to a whopping 40K (mostly of tests/use of medical equipment fee, hospital stay, medicine, doctors fees were actually a small part of the 40K (he was self insured then). He kicked and screamed and threatened and they brought it down to 25K which was what they would charge someone if the insurance co was paying for the same surgery. (yes, the sad truth is hospitals do charge you more if you are uninsured or self insured unless you threaten to go to the media, and 50% of personal bankruptcy in the US is due to run away medical bills). My sister in Asia had the her gall bladder removed and it costs her $3500 USD and she had excellent surgeon/care and more nurses per bed!!

US health care system is broken, costs are absolutely spiraling out of the control. $1000 per month just for health insurance for a family of 3-4 is going to be done at the expense of taking care of other basic needs, paying mortgages, eating healthy, taking a vacation to relax and rejuvenate from time to time. Basic medial care should be a basic right that a nation provide for its citizen. I would pay a little more taxes in the US if there is free basic health care. What good does it do even if you can deduct your medical expenses (and only after you exceeded the 6.5% AGI floor) because you will be broke anyway.

I am self employed and used to buy health insurance until they increased my payment 15-30% each year, at times 2x a year or at every renewal. The company's excuse was health care costs are going up every year and we try to keep the increase as little as possible, blah blah but we have no choice, BS really. I am very healthy, fit, but that did not matter. I got fed up with the "high way robbery of my money" that I decided I will self insure!! or if I can fly when i am sick, I will have my surgery in Asia. (I do have a small medical coverage with my auto insurance). I set aside some emergency funds and focus on being and staying healthy. It is not the ideal situation but I simply hate being "robbed"


 

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