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Author Topic: Grass is NOT greener at the others!!  (Read 29976 times)

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« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2011, 20:15 »
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^ do you often make business decisions based on a few posts by one pathologically cranky guy? good luck with that...iStock is a mess, as Vlad said above, right now. disreputable....ha. listen, the more other contributors take off, the more of the pie there is for the rest of us.

well I would guess that many of them will not take off completely.  Like me, I turned in my crown, but i have not quit istock.  I still have a large portfolio there that continues to earn me money and downloads.  In fact, I may see more downloads as buyers discover that they can find less costly stuff it they look for the files without a crown.  I'm still uploading there and selling.  I have no reason not to, it's business for me.  I'm already seeing good download numbers at DT and SS, and just with a very small portion of my portfolio.  

Hello! My approach and feelings, exactly.

Like the "serious" misunderstanding, what Stacey probably *meant* was that as more exclusive contributors cancel their contract and go independent, the more pie there is for remaining iStock exclusives. If this is indeed what she *meant*, the proof will be in the pudding and I'm doubtful it will play out that way. Like you Jamie, I surmise that my (now) more affordable files will sell better (rather than worse) on IS as such.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 20:23 by Risamay »


SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2011, 20:24 »
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Marisa - I don't need you to paraphrase for me. thank you though. I meant what I said. I don't wish any ill will on any contributor. despite disagreements, we all work for our sales and we're all different people with different frames of reference. so please don't speak for me when it's just a thinly veiled insinuation anyways. I'm not surprised your dropped your crown and all the best to you, sincerely.

@nrubroc: I'm not about to discuss the details of my income so make whatever determinations you want from my 'stats'....lol. I don't know who you think I am, but I'm not sure what you're talking about nor does it matter.

« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2011, 20:26 »
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I can't believe the time you spend bashing iStock. to what end? are you evangelizing, or just vindictive?

Or alternatively ... are YOU just bizarrely delusional?

Few, if anyone else at all, has worked as hard as you over the last few months in building their 'exclusive' portfolio ... has been so embarrassingly fawning in their support of IS admin (to a such buttock-clenching degree that even they can't stand you) ... in waving their pom-poms and cheerleading for IS, etc, etc, etc.

Yet strangely, for all your gushing, unconditional-love of, er ... a business that couldn't actually care less about you .... you're getting f**ked over percentage-wise more than any of us independents for your trouble! Woo-yay Istock. At least they got something right.

« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2011, 20:42 »
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Marisa - I don't need you to paraphrase for me. thank you though. I meant what I said. I don't wish any ill will on any contributor. despite disagreements, we all work for our sales and we're all different people with different frames of reference. so please don't speak for me when it's just a thinly veiled insinuation anyways. I'm not surprised your dropped your crown and all the best to you, sincerely.


Just trying to help you out (as your words are so often "misunderstood" or "twisted" by your own account, are they not). Because if you do sincerely mean what you said then, well - it makes no sense, as contributors are not "taking off". On the contrary, what we're seeing is exclusive contributors canceling said IS contract (taking off their crowns then, so to speak - but that's not what you said/meant, as I was trying to suggest, eh) in order that they can freely contribute to other agencies as independents. While a handful may in fact be closing out their iStock portfolios altogether or (more) no longer uploading, it seems (from reading the IS forums) that most are leaving their IS portfolios intact and fully intend (and hope) to continue to earn money there.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 20:50 by Risamay »

« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2011, 20:44 »
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I'm not going after you Cas. you specifically address me frequently and blow my points into things I haven't said. it frustrates me that I can't post without you paraphrasing what I've said, or anyone else for that matter who doesn't buy into your hatred for iStock. I can't believe the time you spend bashing iStock. to what end? are you evangelizing, or just vindictive?

You're not going to post after me? LOL. You just did. Whatever iStock is doing, they are doing it to themselves. I'm not bashing, so much as pointing out facts. :D Oh, and the "time" I spend "bashing" iStock...really not much at all. A couple minutes here and there. Nothing near your exaggerations, to be sure. Nonetheless, I find the whole implosion utterly fascinating.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 20:58 by caspixel »

« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2011, 20:49 »
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Nonetheless, I find the whole implosion utterly fascinating.

I think we all do. You couldn't make it up!

« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2011, 20:54 »
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Nonetheless, I find the whole implosion utterly fascinating.

I think we all do. You couldn't make it up!

Senseless slow-mo train wrecks are often that way (riveting).

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2011, 21:09 »
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Marisa - I don't need you to paraphrase for me. thank you though. I meant what I said. I don't wish any ill will on any contributor. despite disagreements, we all work for our sales and we're all different people with different frames of reference. so please don't speak for me when it's just a thinly veiled insinuation anyways. I'm not surprised your dropped your crown and all the best to you, sincerely.


Just trying to help you out (as your words are so often "misunderstood" or "twisted" by your own account, are they not). Because if you do sincerely mean what you said then, well - it makes no sense, as contributors are not "taking off". On the contrary, what we're seeing is exclusive contributors canceling said IS contract (taking off their crowns then, so to speak - but that's not what you said/meant, as I was trying to suggest, eh) in order that they can freely contribute to other agencies as independents. While a handful may in fact be closing out their iStock portfolios altogether or (more) no longer uploading, it seems (from reading the IS forums) that most are leaving their IS portfolios intact and fully intend (and hope) to continue to earn money there.

I think keeping your port there is the smart thing to do. I don't know why anyone would delete their images altogether as a number of contributors are claiming to be doing. that makes no sense. anyways, in one way I envy the freedom you have. but the potential loss of income is too risky as far as I'm concerned. I've weighed that option heavily and since putting it to bed, I haven't considered dropping the crown again. doesn't mean I won't at some point.

@ gostwyck: what does it matter who 'likes' whom? couldn't care less. I've not met any iStock admins, but frankly I make as many snap judgments about who they are in the forums as they've (according to you) done about me. I hear all the gossip about admins and other contributors too. who cares? I like or dislike people for real when I meet them. not based on stupid forum comments and I'm certainly not going to spread that kind of BS about people I don't really know. hell, I'm sure there are lots of people who even like you in real life.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 22:54 by SNP »

« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2011, 21:23 »
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Marisa - I don't need you to paraphrase for me. thank you though. I meant what I said. I don't wish any ill will on any contributor. despite disagreements, we all work for our sales and we're all different people with different frames of reference. so please don't speak for me when it's just a thinly veiled insinuation anyways. I'm not surprised your dropped your crown and all the best to you, sincerely.


Just trying to help you out (as your words are so often "misunderstood" or "twisted" by your own account, are they not). Because if you do sincerely mean what you said then, well - it makes no sense, as contributors are not "taking off". On the contrary, what we're seeing is exclusive contributors canceling said IS contract (taking off their crowns then, so to speak - but that's not what you said/meant, as I was trying to suggest, eh) in order that they can freely contribute to other agencies as independents. While a handful may in fact be closing out their iStock portfolios altogether or (more) no longer uploading, it seems (from reading the IS forums) that most are leaving their IS portfolios intact and fully intend (and hope) to continue to earn money there.

I think keeping your port there is the smart thing to do. I don't know why anyone would delete their images altogether as a number of contributors are claiming to be doing. that makes no sense. anyways, in one way I envy the freedom you have. but the potential loss of income is too risky as far as I'm concerned. I've weighed that option heavily and since putting it to bed, I haven't considered dropping the crown again. doesn't mean I won't at some point.


So, your reading of the individual contributor announcements in the IS forums is that more exclusives are "taking off" - by which you mean they have chosen to "delete their images altogether". What makes no sense is your assertion that there are "a number of contributors [who] are claiming to be doing" this. Where are you seeing this "number" posting and what is (ballpark) said "number"? One? Two? Five? I've seen one or two, but five or (even less likely) more?

You aren't acknowledging the big picture - the potential loss of income that you refer to is largely at the outset and (hopefully) temporary (at the outset).

I won't speak for others, but in canceling my exclusive commitment to iStock I did so for financial reasons that were directly tied to what I view as pointedly poor and unfortunate (to say nothing of unfair) business decisions on iStock's part. I don't have illusions that I will immediately make as much or more than I was recently earning on my iStock portfolio, rather I am looking at the bigger, long-term picture. It will take time and a great deal of effort to succeed as an indie (I would expect); i.e., to do as well or better than I was doing (in terms of pure $) at iStock. That is fine by me. I'd rather begin that hard work now than wait for iStock to fail me further and be even more behind when it comes to embarking on the independent path. For me the time to leave was now. Do I regret that I didn't jump ship sooner? No. I needed to stay committed for as long as I did to be certain. Would I kick myself in the crotch if I stayed on longer? Likely so. The writing is on the wall, plain as day from where I sit. I've no regrets about the timing or wisdom of my "departure".
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 21:34 by Risamay »

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2011, 21:41 »
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^ I'm not judging the timing of your exclusivity drop. it's a very individual decision. my comments were only about my own consideration when exclusivity was on the table for me. when is it ever off the table anyways? I'm not considering it right now, but I doubt any exclusive goes along without thinking what they're missing out on. just as successful independents I know do the same--asking themselves 'what if'. I believe you've made the decision wholeheartedly. I didn't question it a bit when you said you had dropped your crown. not that what I think matters.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 21:49 by SNP »

« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2011, 21:50 »
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SNP: And what about this bit then?

So, your reading of the individual contributor announcements in the IS forums is that more exclusives are "taking off" - by which you mean they have chosen to "delete their images altogether". What makes no sense is your assertion that there are "a number of contributors [who] are claiming to be doing" this. Where are you seeing this "number" posting and what is (ballpark) said "number"? One? Two? Five? I've seen one or two, but five or (even less likely) more?

« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2011, 22:03 »
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IS are a walking disaster at the moment BUt that doesn't mean they are in any danger of imploding.

It doesn't mean that they WILL implode but it certainly means there is a danger of them doing so.

It is normal for a management to take the occasional unpopular or bad decision but so many in such a short time suggests that the company has lost its way. I've a feeling it is rapidly approaching the point where it will either wake up, regain direction and stabilize or else it will blunder on blindly over a cliff.

Three months ago, Thompson said it was time for them to start rebuilding trust but they have made no effort at all to do so. Instead, they seem to be caught in a mixture of lethargy - when it comes to dealing with things that need doing - interspersed with bouts of manic activity aimed at producing more and more complicated "solutions" to things that weren't a major problem to start with, thereby creating new problems. It's always F5 time at istock, as they rush to push out the next half-baked bit of geekery/policy change without bothering to fix the last one. But you can only get away with that for so long, then your store of accumulated goodwill gets used up and people move on to somewhere else.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2011, 22:08 »
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Marisa - by taking off I meant dropping your crown. I'm sorry if you disagree with that statement and when you paraphrased me you changed what I said. I wasn't talking about just those who are removing images, I was actually referring to all exclusives dumping the crown.

I have no idea how many have dropped exclusivity and are deactivating images. I only know of three who are actively removing images, one of whom has deleted his entire port, which we all know because he started a thread here about his departure. there are a lot of exclusives 'taking off' or 'dropping the crown', however you want to word it. and as an exclusive, since as far as we know exclusive files are given some best match preference, remaining exclusive when a good number of people are leaving exclusivity presents a best match advantage if you agree that iStock is pushing exclusivity, which I believe they are. no comment on whether it's right or wrong, but just the way it is. it also doesn't mean that the hit I'm taking doesn't still hurt. I don't get a raise even though I was counting on it when I hit diamond. I lose out on Vetta and ELs. I'm not attaching any nobility to staying exclusive, nor do I buy into the notion of nobility on the part of those leaving the crown behind.

@Baldrick: KK never should have stated about rebuilding trust. it set the bar and now look where we are. they need to banish all that touchy feely crap from their communications.

« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2011, 22:24 »
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@Baldrick: KK never should have stated about rebuilding trust. it set the bar and now look where we are. they need to banish all that touchy feely crap from their communications.

No, they need to try to make it look as if it means something. That's one thing Bitter was really good at and it helped to hold everything together regardless of problems. The first thing they should do is stop needlessly upsetting people with stupid, petty or demeaning comments, such as the famous "money won't make you happy" with the accompanying fictional "history" of exclusivity, or the latest "what you meant to say was 'thank you iStock' "

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2011, 22:28 »
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totally

« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2011, 22:34 »
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Marisa - by taking off I meant dropping your crown. I'm sorry if you disagree with that statement and when you paraphrased me you changed what I said. I wasn't talking about just those who are removing images, I was actually referring to all exclusives dumping the crown.

I have no idea how many have dropped exclusivity and are deactivating images. I only know of three who are actively removing images, one of whom has deleted his entire port, which we all know because he started a thread here about his departure. there are a lot of exclusives 'taking off' or 'dropping the crown', however you want to word it. and as an exclusive, since as far as we know exclusive files are given some best match preference, remaining exclusive when a good number of people are leaving exclusivity presents a best match advantage if you agree that iStock is pushing exclusivity, which I believe they are. no comment on whether it's right or wrong, but just the way it is. it also doesn't mean that the hit I'm taking doesn't still hurt. I don't get a raise even though I was counting on it when I hit diamond. I lose out on Vetta and ELs. I'm not attaching any nobility to staying exclusive, nor do I buy into the notion of nobility on the part of those leaving the crown behind.


What I said I thought you meant by taking off, to refresh: "was that as more exclusive contributors cancel their contract and go independent, the more pie there is for remaining iStock exclusives."

So Jamie misunderstood your initial comment (as I suspected) and I clarified - correctly guessing at what you *really* meant. You're welcome  :D

And thank you for quoting the number of contributors you know of who are actively removing their images. I *knew* it was less than five!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 22:40 by Risamay »

« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2011, 22:37 »
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The first thing they should do is stop needlessly upsetting people with stupid, petty or demeaning comments, such as the famous "money won't make you happy" with the accompanying fictional "history" of exclusivity, or the latest "what you meant to say was 'thank you iStock' "


And avoid Kelly saying stuff like "I want my life back __ as soon as I get back from my extended Xmas and New Year break anyway". Come to think of it they probably need to stop Kelly saying anything at all. Ever, ever again.

« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2011, 22:42 »
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I think keeping your port there is the smart thing to do. I don't know why anyone would delete their images altogether as a number of contributors are claiming to be doing.

I would imagine it is a statement that it isn't ok to drop royalties to 15%.  Otherwise, if 15% is ok, why not 10?

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2011, 22:44 »
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Marisa - by taking off I meant dropping your crown. I'm sorry if you disagree with that statement and when you paraphrased me you changed what I said. I wasn't talking about just those who are removing images, I was actually referring to all exclusives dumping the crown.

I have no idea how many have dropped exclusivity and are deactivating images. I only know of three who are actively removing images, one of whom has deleted his entire port, which we all know because he started a thread here about his departure. there are a lot of exclusives 'taking off' or 'dropping the crown', however you want to word it. and as an exclusive, since as far as we know exclusive files are given some best match preference, remaining exclusive when a good number of people are leaving exclusivity presents a best match advantage if you agree that iStock is pushing exclusivity, which I believe they are. no comment on whether it's right or wrong, but just the way it is. it also doesn't mean that the hit I'm taking doesn't still hurt. I don't get a raise even though I was counting on it when I hit diamond. I lose out on Vetta and ELs. I'm not attaching any nobility to staying exclusive, nor do I buy into the notion of nobility on the part of those leaving the crown behind.


What I said I thought you meant by taking off, to refresh: "was that as more exclusive contributors cancel their contract and go independent, the more pie there is for remaining iStock exclusives."

So Jamie misunderstood your initial comment (as I suspected) and I clarified - correctly guessing at what you *really* meant. You're welcome  :D

And thank you for quoting the number of contributors you know of who are actively removing their images. I *knew* it was less than five!

well, at least we can laugh....ironically I misread your rephrase of what you thought I was saying. I took it opposite to what I now see you were saying. I apologize.

« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2011, 22:45 »
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Apology accepted.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2011, 22:47 »
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I think keeping your port there is the smart thing to do. I don't know why anyone would delete their images altogether as a number of contributors are claiming to be doing.

I would imagine it is a statement that it isn't ok to drop royalties to 15%.  Otherwise, if 15% is ok, why not 10?

of course it's a statement. but why? it only hurts them. as we've established, there are what, a handful of contributors that have done this? I just think they've shot themselves in the foot. and I'm certainly NOT suggesting they should be happy with 10% or 15% royalties. I've said from day one I thought independents were being completely screwed with the new system.

« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2011, 22:49 »
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Marisa - by taking off I meant dropping your crown. I'm sorry if you disagree with that statement and when you paraphrased me you changed what I said. I wasn't talking about just those who are removing images, I was actually referring to all exclusives dumping the crown.

I have no idea how many have dropped exclusivity and are deactivating images. I only know of three who are actively removing images, one of whom has deleted his entire port, which we all know because he started a thread here about his departure. there are a lot of exclusives 'taking off' or 'dropping the crown', however you want to word it. and as an exclusive, since as far as we know exclusive files are given some best match preference, remaining exclusive when a good number of people are leaving exclusivity presents a best match advantage if you agree that iStock is pushing exclusivity, which I believe they are. no comment on whether it's right or wrong, but just the way it is. it also doesn't mean that the hit I'm taking doesn't still hurt. I don't get a raise even though I was counting on it when I hit diamond. I lose out on Vetta and ELs. I'm not attaching any nobility to staying exclusive, nor do I buy into the notion of nobility on the part of those leaving the crown behind.


What I said I thought you meant by taking off, to refresh: "was that as more exclusive contributors cancel their contract and go independent, the more pie there is for remaining iStock exclusives."

So Jami misunderstood your initial comment (as I suspected) and I clarified - correctly guessing at what you *really* meant. You're welcome  :D

And thank you for quoting the number of contributors you know of who are actively removing their images. I *knew* it was less than five!

yep. I misunderstood.  but I think we all have it figured out now. :)

« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2011, 22:53 »
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I would imagine it is a statement that it isn't ok to drop royalties to 15%.  Otherwise, if 15% is ok, why not 10?

I imagine that is the catch 22 with this. If you drop the crown, then you have to deal with the extremely low royalties for independents. I can see why some exclusives would cut their exclusivity and delete their portfolio too. I guess it is like ripping the band-aid off quickly. There is basically no good or ideal solution.

« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2011, 22:56 »
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I think keeping your port there is the smart thing to do. I don't know why anyone would delete their images altogether as a number of contributors are claiming to be doing.

I would imagine it is a statement that it isn't ok to drop royalties to 15%.  Otherwise, if 15% is ok, why not 10?

Considering it's only three people (or so) taking said action, it's not much of a statement, is it?

The bigger statement (at the moment) is the number of exclusives either giving up or voicing their current consideration over relinquishing their crown.

It would be quite the statement, of course, if droves of us did as the these three are doing. It might even have an impact toward making TPTB reconsider current policy. However, since a mass of us clearly isn't willing to take this drastic stance or measure, things will likely continue on as they are, far less likely to change in our favor.

Further, I think if people sincerely still cared (about iStock and its long-term viability) they would actually, en masse, take said stance. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of the fight. Eff it. I don't really care anymore. For myself, I have little faith in the company's future and while I would like (very much) for things to change in my favor and that of every contributor, I suppose I'd like instead to collect every last red cent iStock will pay me on my images sold (vs. deleting them all from iStock and getting zilch to make a statement). I put a lot of time and energy into building my portfolio there that I'd rather not flush down the toilet, if it'll make me a few more pennies. And if the company never gets its act together and ultimately fails at some point because of it, oh well. The number of evangelical, once loyal and dedicated exclusives who have left or are considering giving up their crowns should have been the cue to revise some of their unpopular policies.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 23:02 by Risamay »

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2011, 22:58 »
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@cthoman: if I were independent and had a small port at iStock, I'd agree....but what about a major independent who misses the RC cut? I think it would be madness to delete a chunk of income like that. I think the purpose was more to push non-exclusives to become exclusive. but good luck with that iStock. it just comes across as punitive and petty more than anything else, even to exclusives.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 23:01 by SNP »


 

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