'hotel room' is a fairly damning example for sure. in sny case, I'm certainly not happy if there is a V/A bias in all best match returns, but FWIW I've spent the better part of tonight performing search after search on terms and phrases, and still very few produce results like 'fish', 'horse', and 'hotel room'.

overall I get a mix of results from all collections. Incidentally I noticed that editorial files seem pushed back right now in a lot of best match results. my guess is there are still many adjustments to be made.

That actually makes it even worse that the searches are showing such mixed results and so many people are reporting such drastic drops in downloads. If you can't blame it on the overwhelming presence of V&A, what can it be blamed on?

Quote from: SNP on April 12, 2011, 22:13

'hotel room' is a fairly damning example for sure. in sny case, I'm certainly not happy if there is a V/A bias in all best match returns, but FWIW I've spent the better part of tonight performing search after search on terms and phrases, and still very few produce results like 'fish', 'horse', and 'hotel room'.

overall I get a mix of results from all collections. Incidentally I noticed that editorial files seem pushed back right now in a lot of best match results. my guess is there are still many adjustments to be made.

That actually makes it even worse that the searches are showing such mixed results and so many people are reporting such drastic drops in downloads. If you can't blame it on the overwhelming presence of V&A, what can it be blamed on?

I think the answer is in the question. is blame even the word? every time they shift the best match significantly, some contributors get hurt. it has always been like that. my major hit took place in 2008 when I lost 70% of my income literally from one day to the next in a major best match shift. it almost completely discouraged me from continuing in microstock. this best match shift is no different, though it probably seems more malicious and devastating given the current climate.

I think the answer is in the question. is blame even the word? every time they shift the best match significantly, some contributors get hurt.

This just seems like way more than some and way worse then has ever been experienced before. I don't think I've ever seen that many diamond contributors on one thread reporting bad sales with such significant drops. Bizarre. I guess time will tell.

Quote from: SNP on April 12, 2011, 19:10

have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it.
I'm not commenting on the validity of the new best match, but it doesn't seem as V/A heavy as is being 'reported'.

'horse' photos only: 1 non V/Ain the top 200; 4 in the next 200. (give or take 1 or 2, maybe)

The way the best match now works, in broad outline, is quite clear. Obviously, a computer sort has to apply a numerical value to each file to list them in order. Vetta and Agency get a huge number of points just for what they are, say 50 points each. Exclusive files get a few free points, say five or 10. Maybe a handful of points are added according to a contributor's personal rank (or badge, or something), maybe a few get deducted for age, and then most of the points are provided by the history of sales/month (or maybe earnings/month). So for an exclusive diamond's file to get on the front page inside the vetta zone, it would need its 15 exclusive/rank points plus at least another 35 from sales/month to get up to the magic 50. How many dls does that amount to? It may vary a bit depending on something like the overall number of downloads and files in that search, but it is a lot (and remember, V/A need no sales at all).

The result of this is that in the most popular searches - like business - where there are a good number of killer files that are long established with dozens of sales a month, the V/A are pushed down by superstar files and the mix looks good.

The "fish" search, on the other hand, is not a fast-selling subject so hardly any ordinary files can build up sufficient dl/month to challenge the inbuilt V/A points, but it happens to be a subject with a lot of vetta and agency files - so there is no room at the front for anything but them.

The result of this is that black diamond-type people will tend to be the ones who manage to push their way into the first couple of pages of popular searches with files that already sell two or three times a day (or more) and these files will become even more heavily favoured as buyers see them as the cheap option. Ordinary diamonds, with files that sell maybe a dozen times a month, will get displaced behind all the Vetta beyond the depth people are willing to search to.

The only money to be made will be in searches where there are too few V/A files for them to flood a search. Think of a subject that buyers don't have much interest in and you will probably find that it is not (yet) infected with V/A. Take a search for "spider", for example. This is a low interest subject so you would not expect any ordinary file to be able to challenge the V/A points boost - and, sure enough, the first 21 files in the search are V/A (and I think that is ALL the V/A files) so lots of ordinary files get on the first page. I just checked "snake" and the result is similar - the first 80+ files are ALL V/A and then come all the others.

You can forget travel photography, it sells too slowly to challenge the V/A boost and is too popular with the V/A crowd, so a search on Italy produces only four ordinary files in the first 300 matches - and two of those are actually food photos with an Italian theme.

The rule is that ONLY incredibly popular files are now allowed to challenge V/A dominance. If a subject is not popular enough with buyers to produce a handful of can't-be-ignored superstar files, then ALL the V/A files will be at the front of the search and NONE of the ordinary files will be.

This makes iStock happy (presumably because they know that money doesn't make US happy).

No!

We are looking too much, too hard to find answers here!  this is no BIG science jazz or anything, just a plain and simple search mechanism. Any first year IT-student, even a primate from amazonas could do this.
Doesnt take any business plans from Gates or Jobs to do this.

The difficulty lies in the technique of F-king around with it to the very point of insanity whereby our pituarity glands and grey matter have become so stupid that should we by any chance put our trouses on back to front one morning we would be walking backwards for the rest of the day.

seriously! no joke!

^ I don't think 'fashion' is a good example. it is a search I would expect a high number of Vetta files from. but rather than breaking it down in examples....I think it's important to simply say that if V/A are pushed to the front of every search as a rule....customers will feel alienated. if this is an attempt to change buying patterns or attract different demographics, I think it will act only as a deterrent and PERHAPS attract bigger buyers entirely at at the expense of current customers.

customers need to have the option to omit V/A from results. originally I was against any type of price-based sorting, and I am still against price-based sorting generally....but I think sorts allowing the omission of collections are entirely reasonable.

is it possible there's a plan to allow buyers to omit V/A from the sort? which is why they're getting better initial placement in the best match?

^ I don't think 'fashion' is a good example. it is a search I would expect a high number of Vetta files from.

It's an interesting one. I was expecting a mix of filles but as a result of the search I realise that just because fashion is all about a wide range of different styles a single file isn't likely to command the sort of sales necessary to oust the V/A grip.

And even though it has a high number of Vettas, is 997 out of the first 1,000 really a good match? It certainly isn't for buyers who want to be economical. Presumably they will either go away or go to a search by dl., which will further reinforce the files that already sell well, to the detriment of new material.

is it possible there's a plan to allow buyers to omit V/A from the sort? which is why they're getting better initial placement in the best match?

Wishful thinking. They could have offered a V/A-free search months ago if they wanted to. They don't need to screw about with the best match to do it.

They had not the slightest problem offering a "no editorial" option, did they? That tells you everything.

And you're right about price sorting. When it was a matter of a few dollars difference it wouldn't have been right. When it is probably the difference between affordable and unaffordable for a large part of the customer base then it should be sortable, anything else is suicidal.

The full impact of this best match will be seen when the current batch of credit bundles run out (which might be quite soon if buyers don't work out how to avoid V/A) and I bet the result won't be pretty.

Quote from: lagereek on April 13, 2011, 01:19

No!

Sorry, are you saying it doesn't work the way I said?

Right now, I can pretty well predict how any search will look just by thinking about the sales potential of the search term. I bet if you look for Botswana or monkey - both of which are low sales potential searches - you will find that any V/A files in that search are right at the front. I bet if you look for "woman" you will find a mix of very popular high-selling files and V/A files on the first page, maybe even more ordinary files than V/A files (and not one ordinary file with less than 500 sales).

[PS: I just did those searches and - apart from a stray Vetta monkey or two - they are precisely as my theory predicted]

No!  I think youre right!  I still cant explain it but When I do 3 major searches within my own field, there are Vetta, etc and Im an independant ordinary Diamond but I have got at least 3 files in the first row, first page.
Having said that, Im not too sure there are many Vettas within my own nieches.

best.

Incidentally I noticed that editorial files seem pushed back right now in a lot of best match results.

I'm curious as to the enormous differences in different searches. Generally I'm noticing that new files and editorials are very low, but on one low-demand, low-supply search (1310 files) with only one Vetta, new files and editorial files are sprinkled throughout.
I'm wondering if it's deliberate to place editorial files low, as IME at least, most editorial sales are XSm or Sm.

<snip> They could have offered a V/A-free search months ago if they wanted to. They don't need to screw about with the best match to do it.

They had not the slightest problem offering a "no editorial" option, did they? That tells you everything.

And you're right about price sorting. When it was a matter of a few dollars difference it wouldn't have been right. When it is probably the difference between affordable and unaffordable for a large part of the customer base then it should be sortable, anything else is suicidal.

The full impact of this best match will be seen when the current batch of credit bundles run out (which might be quite soon if buyers don't work out how to avoid V/A) and I bet the result won't be pretty.

Don't understand why they haven't provided customers with a search which takes their purchase history into account.  That way, customers who buy lots of Vetta/Agency would get an emphasis on content at that price point in their search results, while (for example) a customer who's never purchased anything more expensive than a medium size file from the main collection would see an extremely light spreading of V/A files.

Simples, no?  Give customers what they want.  As customers make more purchases, iStock get a more accurate picture of what they want, and tailor their search results accordingly rather than ignoring such important information.

Surely that's not beyond the abilities of a tech team who were able to implement a dynamic-relevancy-slider, or location weighted results?

Quote from: gclk on April 13, 2011, 05:28

Don't understand why they haven't provided customers with a search which takes their purchase history into account.  
...
Simples, no?  Give customers what they want.  As customers make more purchases, iStock get a more accurate picture of what they want, and tailor their search results accordingly rather than ignoring such important information.

Surely that's not beyond the abilities of a tech team

Do we know that they are not doing that? Maybe I just see the non-buyers sort. How about buyers here, are they seeing the same thing?

I'm pretty sure they're not doing it already. 

I've bought from iStock in the past, but not enough for this to work effectively so I don't have direct evidence.  But from the indirect evidence based on abundant forum posts and tweets from buyers, along the lines of "I've never bought from Vetta and I never want to, so why are you pushing pages and pages of this stuff in my face?!" I think it's fair to guess that either such a feedback system hasn't been implemented at all, or if one has, it doesn't work.

I dont think Exclusivity has really ever worked the way it should
have worked or rather the way we would like it to work. Its a Getty value from the old days with a few million trannies,

iS exclusivity predated its marriage to Getty and was really just aimed at undermining the rival micros that were starting to pop up like mushrooms in the second half of 2004.

I don't know for sure but I suspect Getty exclusivity was about controlling image rights in RM collections.

Sure! in the good old IS days, perhaps it was at least some benefits but nowdays, with everything going on?  I dont know. Dangerous game actually.

Should the ship finally sink?  theres no rescue and building up new ports with new agencies? Oh boy, takes ages and with 1K % more competition.

best.

You're right of course Chris. We all made our own choices based on the info we had at the time, took any benefits there were (or at least we thought there were) and we have always had to live with the consequences of those choices both good and bad.
It looks to me though as if there could be some painful new decisions to be made soon though, as well as a lot of hard work, in an attempt at long term damage limitation. Certainly the idea of the ship completely sinking is very worrying. The "ship's boats" are in short supply and already pretty full, and the order of the day would seem to be "Newbies and non-exclusives first"
Having said that it's early days for this new sort yet, and with Easter looming on the horizon things might not actually be as bad as they look.
There seem to be more icebergs about than usual though since September!