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Author Topic: Has the best match Dust Settled??  (Read 26297 times)

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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2011, 11:08 »
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I wonder if we are on a rotation to get the image exposure.

Thats my thinking of the meaning of "ebb and flow"


microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2011, 11:26 »
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Actually  its picking up!  yesterday and today, so far,  its brillant!  hope it stays this way.

anybody else?

After months of downward trend - starting mid-2010 - sales for me are now slightly better since a few weeks, but still way below what they used to be

I am not sure if it's the best match or just a general economic trend in conjunction with traditionally good months of the year (March-April)
Out of curiousity, are you exclusive and if so, are the files that are selling for you vetta or agency files? 

not esclusive, only selling agency files, no vetta

« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 12:13 »
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Whoa, daddy. Go Cam[rocker]!

Quote
"On the one hand I'm happy to see that its not just me that is suffering so greatly, on the other it makes me sick that so many people are suffering so greatly. I've been canceliing or turning down stock shooting opportunities consistantly for the past three weeks. I have serious doubts about the survival of this business and am now becoming embarrassed to admit I'm exclusive. I used to be a F*cking cheerleader for this place, and now I'm having to figure out what to do to keep providing for my family. I remember the language that iStock used to make us feel secure when signing up for exclusivity, something "trust us we'll take care of you". Maybe I'm paraphrasing but thats how I remember it. But from where I sit it looks as though you guys aren't taking care of crap. I can't even tell if your making any money for yourselves.

You need serious reinvention for your Contributor/Customer relations and Marketing, that is if you ever figure out how to keep the store front working. If I walked into an Apple store and I was forced to look at the Mac Pro before I could get my hands on an iTouch I would never enter that store again. From what I can tell that is exactly how you guys are playing this game, and the competition is laughing at all of us."


Source - http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=323102&page=2

« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2011, 12:50 »
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just read that whole thread.  how depressing.  I am surprised it hasn't been deleted yet after all the other ones have been disappearing.

FWIW - my week hasn't been too bad, although today is starting out slowly.  And the latest best match is certainly bringing old files in front of buyers' eyes, as I've seen many of my old and almost forgotten files from like 2004-2007 selling lately. 

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2011, 15:28 »
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I am finding the same. old files dominating my sales today. dls average.

« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2011, 15:31 »
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Well, KK's final response in that thread is pretty clear - there is not going to be a reversal of the latest best match shift, just minor nudges over a period of weeks to get it closer to whatever they want.

That's really, really bad news for all the people who have seen their sales collapse (and judging by today's sales, I'm now one of them).

« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2011, 15:57 »
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What a fascinating and very telling response. All that talk of how *iStock* wants the best match and not a word on what the customers might want to see in the best match. I think they forgot who actually buys the images.

« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2011, 16:16 »
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So this response tells us that:
A) Revenues must by OK or they would be willing to reverse the process.
Unless they are deliberately trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

B) Nothing at all really. IS will stop and turn on a dime if their Getty masters say so.

« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2011, 16:32 »
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So this response tells us that:
A) Revenues must by OK or they would be willing to reverse the process.
Unless they are deliberately trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.


It doesn't actually tell us that at all. It may be that the new best match is an attempt to reverse already declining sales. Don't forget that this change has immediately followed Istock's failure to post the new RC targets, most likely to avoid the embarrassment of admitting such. They've had to take some action.

« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2011, 16:55 »
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Jesus! I just searched on "fish" (both boxes ticked) and the first 1,000 files in the best match are almost exclusively Vetta or Agency with no more than maybe a dozen ordinary files scattered through them. A bunch of the first page results are truly bizarre from a very low-selling artist.
No wonder sales are collapsing.
If this is the same in other searches then there is little doubt the objective is to put as much high-priced content at the front as possible.

« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2011, 17:03 »
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FWIW sales seem back to "normal" for me. Normal-ish...

« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2011, 17:05 »
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What a fascinating and very telling response. All that talk of how *iStock* wants the best match and not a word on what the customers might want to see in the best match. I think they forgot who actually buys the images.

Cas, just for the record - and I'm not for a moment wanting to defend iStock's antics with the best match - Andrew did mention the importance of the customers getting good results (my bold below).

I was just going to quote the relevant bit, but have pasted the whole text for completeness:

Let me give everyone a background of the last few weeks and the process going on with the search results sorting.

A few weeks ago we released a large change to the main search engine code. This covered a lot of different things, including best match.

Since that push we've been making adjustments to the best match algorithm - as everyone has been seeing. We started out making a lot of minor daily tweaks - minor enough that people weren't noticing they were happening. We then made a larger adjustment which would be the one people noticed last weekend.

Part of the big change a few weeks ago was working with the actual guts of the best match machine in order to make it more finely-controllable. That is a process which will take some time but down the road we're working on basically improving the dial - making it easier for us to make the kind of fine-tuning adjustments to the sort mix that we want. The release a few weeks ago was a big step towards getting us there.

We are still making changes to get to a best match sort that makes us happy. What makes us happy is our clients getting the most relevant possible results. Yesterday and today we've done more changes that we feel are getting us closer. We will continue doing those changes over the next few weeks.

So the short answer is - we're still working on getting the ideal best match.

As people have noted, this isn't the first time that we've had a best match shake. It won't be the last. Our sort results will change from time to time, and they are going to change without notice. Down the road the improvements that we're making are going to give us finer control so that changes and adjustments won't feel like shakes. In the meantime what you're going to see over the next few weeks are small adjustments with the cumulative effect of the sort results being as relevant as possible.


Of course if giving clients the most relevant possible results is the priority, then something will need to be done about the very highly placed premium files which have low or zero relevancy to the search terms.  Seems that this is especially a problem with Agency files.  As a very basic example, check out the Agency results for 'setting the table' - months and months on and it's clearly still a problem.  [NB. Sean's Agency 'Setting the table' images are actually pictures of people setting a table, of course :)]

« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2011, 17:14 »
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What makes us happy is our clients getting the most relevant possible results.

That's actually open to interpretation. What constitutes relevant? Relevant to whom? If it meant "most relevant to the clients' needs" then they wouldn't be happy packing the front of the search with files that people apparently don't want. But he now thinks that the major, necessary shake-up has taken place.

If the quote means "most relevant to our profit margins".... well... that may be different (though in the long-run its hard to see how iStock's best interests can be different from their clients' interests).

« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2011, 17:56 »
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What makes us happy is our clients getting the most relevant possible results.

That's actually open to interpretation. What constitutes relevant? Relevant to whom? If it meant "most relevant to the clients' needs" then they wouldn't be happy packing the front of the search with files that people apparently don't want. But he now thinks that the major, necessary shake-up has taken place.

If the quote means "most relevant to our profit margins".... well... that may be different (though in the long-run its hard to see how iStock's best interests can be different from their clients' interests).

Exactly. I read that as What makes us happy is our clients getting the most relevant (to our profit margins) possible results. It's been pretty clear from their non-response to customers requesting a way to block A/V that they really don't care about what the customers want. iStock wants to push what *it* thinks is relevant to itself, not what the customers think is relevant.

This is iStock's NEW 'relevant', just like there is a NEW 'trust'.

« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2011, 18:36 »
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What makes us happy is our clients getting the most relevant possible results.

That's actually open to interpretation. What constitutes relevant? Relevant to whom? If it meant "most relevant to the clients' needs" then they wouldn't be happy packing the front of the search with files that people apparently don't want. But he now thinks that the major, necessary shake-up has taken place.

If the quote means "most relevant to our profit margins".... well... that may be different (though in the long-run its hard to see how iStock's best interests can be different from their clients' interests).
By placing all the V's and A's in the front it's anything but relevant. iStock's customer base is sensitive to prices from what I've seen over the years, and placing the high priced files in the front tells me they don't know their customers.  They're just alienating buyers at our expense in my opinion. 

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2011, 19:10 »
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have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it. I've searched on all my test search terms. each search has returned a solid MIX of files. in fact 'business' under best match sort order has only three Agency files and one Vetta file on the whole first page with 200 results.

I've done the same type of search on a number of random terms, some big, some drilled down and I'm not seeing anything flooded with V or A with the excpetion of the 'fish' search....which was given as an earlier example. that returns a large number of Vetta and Agency....who knows why. some of the terms I searched on that returned 'normal' results so that you can try them yourselves are:

business
woman
man
family
child
urban
teamwork
team work
house
for sale

I'm not commenting on the validity of the new best match, but it doesn't seem as V/A heavy as is being 'reported'.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 19:15 by SNP »

« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2011, 19:18 »
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have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it. I've searched on all my test search terms. each search has returned a solid MIX of files. in fact 'business' under best match sort order has only three Agency files and one Vetta file on the whole first page with 200 results.

I've done the same type of search on a number of random terms, some big, some drilled down and I'm not seeing anything flooded with V or A with the excpetion of the 'fish' search....which was given as an earlier example. that returns a large number of Vetta and Agency....who knows why. some of the terms I searched on that returned 'normal' results so that you can try them yourselves are:

business
woman
man
family
child
urban
teamwork
team work
house
for sale

I'm not commenting on the validity of the new best match, but it doesn't seem as V/A heavy as is being 'reported'.
I have done a few searches. Try 'hotel room' and see what comes up. When I did it the first 50 images were all Vetta and Agency files with one file that was in the main collection but a best seller. Also, it seems that search results may be regional and I've heard that different users are getting different results depending on where they are.

« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2011, 19:30 »
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have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it. I've searched on all my test search terms. each search has returned a solid MIX of files.

Yes, I have searched. Many of the terms have a huge disparity in the first one or two pages - masses of Vetta Agency, lots of it with few or zero sales.

Examples:

20 regular files in the first 400 for fish; 20 regular files out of 200 for senior couple; 31 regular of 200 for woman shopping; 12 of 200 for tropical beach; spa treatment 39 of 200; woman eating 21 of 200; woman laptop 30 of 200; man portrait 26 of 200; doctor 37 of 200; swimming pool 13 of 200; summer outdoors 29 of 200; child outdoors 36 of 200; sexy woman 9 of 200.

These aren't a mix, certainly not a solid one. When you consider the small proportion of the 8 million images that are Vetta/Agency, the disproportionate weight becomes overwhelming
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 22:11 by jsnover »

« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2011, 19:36 »
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'Hotel Room' was Agency and Vetta for me. I also did 'fashion' - nothing but V&A for over 20 pages. Pages 20-30 still V&A heavy, but regular collection files scattered throughout. Started to get fewer V&A round about page 33.

ETA: BTW My search was set for 200 files per page. That's a lot of V&A!

For family I see a lot of flames and Agency, not too many Vetta though.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 19:53 by divinityer »

« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2011, 19:57 »
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Wow, this is depressing, it is amazing I am getting any sales at all.  As a new IS contributor, I just keep submitting without expecting any sales, kinda like Yay, Featurepics, etc.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2011, 20:13 »
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have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it.
I'm not commenting on the validity of the new best match, but it doesn't seem as V/A heavy as is being 'reported'.
'horse' photos only: 1 non V/Ain the top 200; 4 in the next 200. (give or take 1 or 2, maybe)

« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2011, 20:45 »
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have any of you actually performed test searches? it doesn't sound like it.
I'm not commenting on the validity of the new best match, but it doesn't seem as V/A heavy as is being 'reported'.
'horse' photos only: 1 non V/Ain the top 200; 4 in the next 200. (give or take 1 or 2, maybe)

I just did that search too...I'm seeing zero non-V/A in the top 200. And two of the top 200 don't even have a horse in the photo.

One photo on page one has a drastic motion blur filter applied to it. I submitted a horse jumping photo with that same exact filter applied, and it was rejected for overfiltering.  ::) No, no favoritism going on there.

« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2011, 20:52 »
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Jesus! I just searched on "fish" (both boxes ticked) and the first 1,000 files in the best match are almost exclusively Vetta or Agency with no more than maybe a dozen ordinary files scattered through them. A bunch of the first page results are truly bizarre from a very low-selling artist.
No wonder sales are collapsing.
If this is the same in other searches then there is little doubt the objective is to put as much high-priced content at the front as possible.

Ugh.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2011, 22:13 »
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'hotel room' is a fairly damning example for sure. in any case, I'm certainly not happy if there is a V/A bias in all best match returns, but FWIW I've spent the better part of tonight performing search after search on terms and phrases, and still very few produce results like 'fish', 'horse', and 'hotel room'.

overall I get a mix of results from all collections. Incidentally I noticed that editorial files seem pushed back right now in a lot of best match results. my guess is there are still many adjustments to be made.

I feel for those badly hit. I've been there
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 23:24 by SNP »

« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2011, 22:48 »
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It makes me wonder if the status quo will continue for best match....i.e. Files found their way to the top of searches because they were a relevant to the search AND clicked on by the customer.

Will Vetta and Agency be always at the top of the searches, or will they filter down through the mass to the bottom, simply because they are more expensive and not due to irrelevancy.

Can somebody find a grossly irrelevant  Vetta or Agency image ? If so then Vetta and Agency images have a "bubble" around them so as they will always be at the top.

Time will tell....meanwhile my downloads are non-existent......is the Crown worth its exclusivity....

One interesting fact is that iStock has not grown in membership since January 36,892, Today 36,895. (I keep a spreadsheet on the numbers from http://istockcharts.multimedia.de/ ) When I look at the numbers, only the Base Level is decreasing, all other levels are increasing. Which says there has not been a new member this year.

The exclusive numbers have risen back up from Decembers Peak with December 5872, January 5399, Today 5479....Dec/Jan had a huge bailout due to the best match, I wonder what will happen in the next week or two.

Has the dust settled, no, its just the eye in the storm................
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 22:50 by mollypix »


 

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