MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: yingyang0 on October 18, 2008, 01:11
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Well it looks like they changed the algorithm again. This time it heavily favors total number of downloads for a file, then secondly DLs/month.
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Thank goodness, after totally tanking and all my best sellers not being anywhere to be found I have now got better positioning.
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I don't know how I will be effected by the change yet so I don't know if I am happy with it yet
sales had been ok for me since the beginning of oct but sept was awfully slow.
fingers crossed I hope it ill work fine for most of us but I am sure there will still be some complaining(could be even me ??? )
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Well it looks like they changed the algorithm again. This time it heavily favors total number of downloads for a file, then secondly DLs/month.
It looks to me like it also *strongly* favors exclusive contributors. Non-exclusives should expect to see a big drop in sales.
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It looks to me like it also *strongly* favors exclusive contributors. Non-exclusives should expect to see a big drop in sales.
Don't they all? ;)
I had a really good week, including Friday, so I'm not sure exactly when the new match went into effect. I never look at my portfolio sorted that way until there is a big discussion about it. :)
I did notice that my newest files have been pushed way back, and that my vectors (which are a vast majority of my portfolio) appear after nearly all the pages of my photos.
We'll see how it goes, I guess.
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there you go! I can't find neither my popular nor new files >:(
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After 79 pages of discussion about the previous best match, JJRD has locked the thread. There's a new one now. Oh yay. ;D
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Wow! That is a big change - just looking at my own portfolio sorted by best match it's quite different from a week ago. It's not quite as it was before the last change, but that huge bias for newness is gone and there's a much better mix of images in the first few pages.
However there are some real head scratchers on the last few pages too - as an example there's a file with 179 downloads, 4.5 DLs/month that's on page 64 of 66 in my port. The last few pages are disproportionately filled with my vectors (a minority of my portfolio) and there are a very large number of files with over 50 downloads in the last 3 pages.
As you say, it's impossible to say yet what this means for sales, but after a terrible Sept, my first two weeks of October had looked much better...
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The last few pages are disproportionately filled with my vectors (a minority of my portfolio)
It definitely appears that this will work to your favor, especially if the claims that there is a strong boost for exclusives (but they always say that).
When things crapped out a few weeks ago, I was seriously considering giving back the crown, so that I would possibly have time to be able to salvage some of the holiday sales at other sites. I set a date to make my decision and by that time things had recovered. Now it is really too late to consider that option, and by all appearances the floor has just fallen out for those with primarily vector portfolios, during the worst possible time of year.
I have no idea why they decide to make huge sweeping changes to things in October every year. This is what, the third year of this? It used to be that we could look forward to a raise every year. Now we can just imagine what sweet torture October holds in store for us.
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Well it looks like they changed the algorithm again. This time it heavily favors total number of downloads for a file, then secondly DLs/month.
It looks to me like it also *strongly* favors exclusive contributors. Non-exclusives should expect to see a big drop in sales.
Not to this extent. I think the change only just came into effect in the last day or so. I just did a search that used to put a few of my images on the front page of the best match out of about 22000 results - now nowhere to be seen. A much narrower search puts the first of my images on page 15 out of 16.
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My own portfolio looks totally random.
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Sort your portfolio by views (in the detail window) and then by best match. For me, all the oldies that show up in the first few pages - which made no sense at all given the relatively small number of downloads - can be explained by them being in the top few pages for views. But why that has such an impact on best match results is a complete mystery to me.
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Sort your portfolio by views (in the detail window) and then by best match. For me, all the oldies that show up in the first few pages - which made no sense at all given the relatively small number of downloads - can be explained by them being in the top few pages for views. But why that has such an impact on best match results is a complete mystery to me.
Yeah, let's band together and form a viewing gang. ::) ??? >:(
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The placement of my popular files is definetely much better now than a couple of days ago. Previous best match change left me with 2-3 downloads a day which was a severe drop. I'm hoping for the best for the upcoming week.
Re vectors - don't you think that if somebody is looking for vectors then they will tick vector box only? So it shouldn't matter if the vectors are being placed after photos, as long as the sorting within all the vectors works properly.
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Re vectors - don't you think that if somebody is looking for vectors then they will tick vector box only? So it shouldn't matter if the vectors are being placed after photos, as long as the sorting within all the vectors works properly.
Let me guess. You're not a designer.
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I think this is one o the worst things about microstock such changes (at least for me) makes it so unpredictable what to expect from micro in terms of earning since earnings is getting more heavily depended on the search engines (as well as quality) but no matter how good your work is they less likely to sell well unless they don't t get a good place in the search.may be libraries is already over loaded and already too much competitions in the industry I don't know
eta:
btw I noticed a change in FT as welli first two weeks of the month was good but then suddenly started to slow down I got the impression they do something every two weeks .Oh well,you never know!
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Re vectors - don't you think that if somebody is looking for vectors then they will tick vector box only? So it shouldn't matter if the vectors are being placed after photos, as long as the sorting within all the vectors works properly.
If that were the case, then what do you think might be the reason that they bothered to weight the files at all (as the obviously have)? Clearly your theory is flawed.
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Arrrrgh.
The previous best match was working fairly well for me. This last new best match knocked my best sellers from the first couple of pages into oblivion, but, it put some of my newer images on the first few pages. So, my sales actually increased from the last best match.
This latest best match seems to have pushed quite a few of my new and good selling images back overall. We'll just have to wait this out again and see what happens.
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It looks to me like it also *strongly* favors exclusive contributors.
It probably does after all of the posts on IS about exclusives seeing huge income drops and turning in crowns.
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If you own a store, you'll put your best selling products in the shelves that are on eye level, and you'll put the un-popular products way down below, so customers have to kneel.
If you keep re-aranging the shelves all the time, customers have to search all over again, they become annoyed and go to another store!
But hey, that's just the opinion of an unsignificant un-exclusive contributor! ;D
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i don't think any of us will ever figure out istock... ???
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Re vectors - don't you think that if somebody is looking for vectors then they will tick vector box only? So it shouldn't matter if the vectors are being placed after photos, as long as the sorting within all the vectors works properly.
Let me guess. You're not a designer.
I don't get this blanket statement, does this mean that you think all designers think the same? Certainly where I work the general look of a project is decided before we search for images, an illustrative or photographic approach is one of the first things discussed with a client.
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They might as well return images randomly in the Best Match. This way nobody is given any preference at all.
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They might as well return images randomly in the Best Match. This way nobody is given any preference at all.
Then it wouldn't be a best match.
Maybe they should add a Random option. It may give a boost to some decent images that are excluded from all the other search options. Kind of like a treasure hunt. You may find a bunch of junk but there may be some lost gems too. Not sure if buyers would have enough time or patience for that though.
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HA! That's perfect... It's only back to what it was before for those who didn't understand that Istock listened to our concern! Thanks Istock
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I don't know if I was sleepy or what this morning, but I'd swear that the order of my images has changed again (for worse actually). The preference for exclusives is at the moment rather astonishing.
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Re vectors - don't you think that if somebody is looking for vectors then they will tick vector box only? So it shouldn't matter if the vectors are being placed after photos, as long as the sorting within all the vectors works properly.
Let me guess. You're not a designer.
I don't get this blanket statement, does this mean that you think all designers think the same? Certainly where I work the general look of a project is decided before we search for images, an illustrative or photographic approach is one of the first things discussed with a client.
Of course I don't think that all designers think the same, which is exactly why this is a problem! We are not given enough credit for thinking at all! If I want one or the other, that is the box I check. If I want BOTH then I want to see BOTH, not all the photos and then the vectors.
If it doesn't make a difference, then why change it?
There are plenty of instances where a designer is given more freedom to decide a concept (even if BEFORE taking it to the client) and it is those instances where they (or SOME) would search for a more broad assortment of images. If they want to see a broad assortment, they would likely be conducting a fairly broad search (i.e. with a larger number of results than a "drilled down" search for something very specific) right now they would be under the impression that vectors on istock do not exist.
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They might as well return images randomly in the Best Match. This way nobody is given any preference at all.
Then it wouldn't be a best match.
That is exactly my point. It isn't a Best Match now! So you might as well return a random sort order.
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HA! That's perfect... It's only back to what it was before for those who didn't understand that Istock listened to our concern! Thanks Istock
Are you saying it's back from what it was before from beyond a few weeks? If so, no way. If it is, somebody needs to move some of my best sellers back to the first few pages where they were before.
This new best match seems to be somewhere in between the older one and the last one. The just seemed to dial it back a bit.
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Sort your portfolio by views (in the detail window) and then by best match. For me, all the oldies that show up in the first few pages - which made no sense at all given the relatively small number of downloads - can be explained by them being in the top few pages for views. But why that has such an impact on best match results is a complete mystery to me.
Yeah, let's band together and form a viewing gang. ::) ??? >:(
Lets to do that so I can find out if you're the real Bitter. ;) "Will the real slim Bitter please stand up, please stand up."
After spending more time looking at how the best match arranges my portfolio I think like this variation. It brought some of my better photos to the top that hadn't been seen since 2 BMs ago. I don't know if it will hurt or help my sales, but it at least the results don't return just the newest uploads and you don't see whole rows of a single series of photos. It's definitely a better variety.
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HA! That's perfect... It's only back to what it was before for those who didn't understand that Istock listened to our concern! Thanks Istock
Are you saying it's back from what it was before from beyond a few weeks? If so, no way. If it is, somebody needs to move some of my best sellers back to the first few pages where they were before.
This new best match seems to be somewhere in between the older one and the last one. The just seemed to dial it back a bit.
Yeah.. not exactly the old one, but it's a return to the best match by file performance. But if you have high selling files behind then I agree, but mine are in front for the moment. Hope that yours get in the front shortly, it could take some time for things to move maybe
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Flames and fastest moving files moved to back for me. Hope my less well performing files do better this time.
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Hope that yours get in the front shortly, it could take some time for things to move maybe
Yea, but no one knows what causes files move up now. Before it was the views/dl ratio, then it was newer files, and now???
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
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Is it just me or did the default images per page on the search get changed from 20-something to 50?
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"Tea table". Only exlcusives in the first three pages (at least).
Regards,
Adelaide
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
Yep, and it seems that an exclusive might get a whole series of images on the very first page. No limit at all? Sort of pointless.
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
I agree Lisa, the non-exclusives are now seriously f**cked. We now have two groups on IS, the 'Exclusives' and the 'Excluded'. I still don't get it though, they make 20% more money from everything that we sell. Aren't they cutting off their nose to spite their face? Maybe that thread congratulating Yuri pushed some buttons....
Anyway, I can't be bothered following the best match saga anymore. Sales are going to drop for us Excluded but what can we do. We have no voice, if we complain we'll just get the standard answer "You are non-exclusive, you can't have your cake and eat it". They still fail to recognise how we DO support IS. But anyway, I am just grateful that IS is my fourth earner this month anyway.
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
If you look closely there is probably about 5 non-exclusive files in the first 100 or so of a search. Will be interesting to see how long this best match lasts, and how it affects the revenue of IS...
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I already noticed that my downloads have decreased by 50% or more since then. It comes to the point I start wondering why I would go through all the upload trouble. Shutterstock is doing much better now. Alas Istock is my second earner. We'll just have to wait untill they change the algorithm again. Patricia
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I already noticed that my downloads have decreased by 50% or more since then. It comes to the point I start wondering why I would go through all the upload trouble. Shutterstock is doing much better now. Alas Istock is my second earner. We'll just have to wait untill they change the algorithm again. Patricia
Since when? Since 24 hours ago when it changed? You do realize it is Saturday right?
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i put up with their ridiculous submission process when they actually sold images for me, but once their sales dropped so did my submissions -- maybe that's linked, but i'd rather spend more time uploading to sites like SS DT and 123 that actually eaRN some $$
steve
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
I agree Lisa, the non-exclusives are now seriously f**cked. We now have two groups on IS, the 'Exclusives' and the 'Excluded'. I still don't get it though, they make 20% more money from everything that we sell. Aren't they cutting off their nose to spite their face? Maybe that thread congratulating Yuri pushed some buttons....
Anyway, I can't be bothered following the best match saga anymore. Sales are going to drop for us Excluded but what can we do. We have no voice, if we complain we'll just get the standard answer "You are non-exclusive, you can't have your cake and eat it". They still fail to recognise how we DO support IS. But anyway, I am just grateful that IS is my fourth earner this month anyway.
I think you guys got it right here. Non-exclusives just got pushed to the back of the bus. Also does look like views are playing a big role.
I wonder if this is an attempt to increase traffic ranking..J/K
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Just did some random searches and non-exclusives are really, seriously handicapped in this current best match.
For anyone who isn't exclusive, it seems kind of pointless to even be discussing what order our portfolios are in. We aren't going to be getting any downloads there anyway....
I agree Lisa, the non-exclusives are now seriously f**cked. We now have two groups on IS, the 'Exclusives' and the 'Excluded'. I still don't get it though, they make 20% more money from everything that we sell. Aren't they cutting off their nose to spite their face? Maybe that thread congratulating Yuri pushed some buttons....
Anyway, I can't be bothered following the best match saga anymore. Sales are going to drop for us Excluded but what can we do. We have no voice, if we complain we'll just get the standard answer "You are non-exclusive, you can't have your cake and eat it". They still fail to recognise how we DO support IS. But anyway, I am just grateful that IS is my fourth earner this month anyway.
I think you guys got it right here. Non-exclusives just got pushed to the back of the bus. Also does look like views are playing a big role.
I wonder if this is an attempt to increase traffic ranking..J/K
Make that, non exclusives and all vector artists just got pushed to the back of the bus.
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Update from JJRD posted in the illustration forum:
The situation is being addressed, guys... in no way, shape or form is it the willingness of iStockphoto to ''push back'' any content based on medium... and never will.
Stay tuned this one will be fast, trust me, thank you so very much indeed.
linky (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=78280&page=1)
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Everybody with 500 dowloads can be exclusive and renounce to have benefits in about seven others microstock sites. Exclusiviness it's not anyone's privilege: it's a free and personal election.
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Well it looks like its been changed again...
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Well it looks like its been changed again...
Really? I'm still seeing all photos at the front of my portfolio. What changes are you seeing?
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I don;t have vectors in mine, but the searches I've done seem to have vectors in the front page, and my photos more or less where they were before...
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I don't think anything has changed - vectors clustered at the back as it's been the last couple of days
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Well, not a good change for me this time. :(
Was on my way to another BME but downloads have slowed down drastically since the end of last week. ???
Very sad, and I'm really glad I have other sites that are doing well this month.
I can say one thing about being in microstock - NEVER A DULL MOMENT!
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The weekend & yesterday in particular were really bad for me, my sales were practically non-existant, so I noticed it immediately.
I was about to voice concern in the iStock forums earlier today, then I noticed that even though my stats weren't updating, I did actually have a few downloads this morning.
Thankfully the downloads have continued throughout the day and my sales are just in a completely different league to yesterday. This leads me to believe iStock has definitely made some changes today, although I'm not sure what exactly! I'll be keeping a close eye on it over the next few days.
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Yeah guess they changed it a bit, here's what JJRD said on IS forums:
Update : yesterday, there was an adjustement that was asked for - and granted - in order to adjust best match for vectors; however, it seems like the adjustement applied did very little as a result. There is another adjustement coming and very soon at that.
Again... thanks to everyone for your patience and understanding... as some things we simply CANNOT control... they simply need to be pushed to the entire collection in a live environment & that's the way that it is.
I haven't had a vector sale since the best match changed, but I've had some photos sell that haven't sold before. The new best match also highly favours exclusives, even more than before so non exclusive illustrators (like you) suffered the most. Hopefully they will tweak it even a bit more.
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I have also had a couple of files sell that never sold before. Unfortunately all my good sellers are pushed so far back that even I don't have the patience to look for them.
I have a small port and possibly I'm being affected more than someone with a diverse portfolio, but so far the best match change is completely messing my sales - from average 10 photos a day down to 1-2.
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I figured something was up as my sales for the last few days have dropped quite a bit. My best selling image on IS is a black bible. I just did a search, and it showed up on page 31 of 32 pages. *sigh* -- no wonder it hasn't sold much lately. It's like being sent to the back of the line for no good reason...
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Does anyone know the proportion of images on IS that are exclusive vs non exclusive?
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I hope making it even harder for non-exclusives isn't the policy of the new owners of istock. I wont carry on uploading if my earnings continue to fall. The other sites are doing well and I will spend more time on them. At my current earnings level, the tedious istock upload is hardly worth it.
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Apparently older files from years ago are now selling more.
Problem is I don't have any older files to sell since I joined last February >:(
Boooooooo!
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I have a good mix of older and newer files. Normally I am able to weather best match changes okay, without huge dips or rises in sales.
But as already stated, this best match is really penalizing independents heavily. My sales are down by a third from the beginning of the month.
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I'm an independent and this last change seems to be for the better. Yesterday was my best day this month and today is shaping up well.
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What ever they did I am certainly seeing a bad effect from it. My sales have dropped to near zero
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It looked like the first best match change put me down 35-50% while this one has put me down 80% in the last week. IS used to be my number one and now it's consistently getting beat by 123rf, dreamstime, and some days by BigStock. I'm not sure what to do, should I stop uploading there? I can't upload more the 15 slots are already filled up for the next two months.
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Wish I knew what to say to put a happy face on this, but IS seems to be well and truly letting independent contributors know what they think of us.
I have an unreasonable believe that this will turn around at some point, but only time will tell.
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I hope so. I know I don't sell much (about 10-15 per weekday before the change) and now it's like 2 a day. I was really considering going exclusive because my sales had increased for the last 18+ months but overnight it's all wiped out. I could deal with the 20% commission when I was getting sales but now I'm thinking this might not be worth it.
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IS used to be my best saler, This month it will move back behind the SS, DT and FL. since they changed best match, My earn drop off 40%.
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Hoping things change here also. It will be important to see what happens from here. Will files that get downloaded move up the best match? Or will it just stay as it is? I don't see any movement at this point.
I would like to think they would let the files that are selling the most drift back to the front. Heavy weighting by views seems a little silly. Hopefully they are just mixing up the order a bit as a starting point.
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I hope so. I know I don't sell much (about 10-15 per weekday before the change) and now it's like 2 a day. I was really considering going exclusive because my sales had increased for the last 18+ months but overnight it's all wiped out. I could deal with the 20% commission when I was getting sales but now I'm thinking this might not be worth it.
Since this version of the best match supposedly helps exclusives more than previous versions wouldn't that be an incentive to go exclusive and not a disincentive?
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I hope so. I know I don't sell much (about 10-15 per weekday before the change) and now it's like 2 a day. I was really considering going exclusive because my sales had increased for the last 18+ months but overnight it's all wiped out. I could deal with the 20% commission when I was getting sales but now I'm thinking this might not be worth it.
Since this version of the best match supposedly helps exclusives more than previous versions wouldn't that be an incentive to go exclusive and not a disincentive?
Yes, but you never know when the tide will change...
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I can't go exclusive now because of Dreamstime and Bigstock. The worrying part is that IS can overnight make me lose 50% of sales (maybe more like 80% if the last week keeps going how it has) and do this very arbitrarily. I don't know if anyone has heard a reason why there needed to be a change in the first place.
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IS used to be my best saler, This month it will move back behind the SS, DT and FL. since they changed best match, My earn drop off 40%.
Same for me, IS will be fourth for me this month. If things carry on, it might actually go fifth! I can't see how this is good for IS. I don't think they will be shifting that many more photos due to the change in best match yet they are giving up all the extra money from us Excludeds.
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Just when I thought thinks were looking up. I've had a horrible week also, the algorithm change would explain it.
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They have been 4th for me for the last 3 months and won't go fifth only because I'm having a slow month at StockXpert also. I used to make over 50% of my earnings there now it's dropped to well under 20%.
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Since this version of the best match supposedly helps exclusives more than previous versions wouldn't that be an incentive to go exclusive and not a disincentive?
If you look at IS forum you will see that MANY exclusive also do see their sales dropping with the new best match algorithm.
IS just do it completely wrong here :-\
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IS is very erratic. search placement is everything. buyers seem never to venture deeper into the results. page one image might get 1000 dls, page ten seems forgotten. I keep checking from time to time. if it doesn't fly off in the beginning, it never does. IS is my fourth seller behind SS, StockXpert, FT closely followed by DT.
I gave up filling portfolio. I will drop one by one in it like fishes in the pond until one of them gets noticed and picked up by search engine.
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I hope so. I know I don't sell much (about 10-15 per weekday before the change) and now it's like 2 a day. I was really considering going exclusive because my sales had increased for the last 18+ months but overnight it's all wiped out. I could deal with the 20% commission when I was getting sales but now I'm thinking this might not be worth it.
Since this version of the best match supposedly helps exclusives more than previous versions wouldn't that be an incentive to go exclusive and not a disincentive?
The only way istock could seriously tempt me would be by increasing my sales consistently each month, not reducing them and letting the other sites catch up. At the moment they would have to make me 10x more than they do now if I went exclusive. Is that likely to happen?
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Since this version of the best match supposedly helps exclusives more than previous versions wouldn't that be an incentive to go exclusive and not a disincentive?
If you look at IS forum you will see that MANY exclusive also do see their sales dropping with the new best match algorithm.
IS just do it completely wrong here :-\
There are also independents reporting just the opposite (paulcowan for one)
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Actually, in my humble opinion, the new best match tends to favor more old-timers (people who has been on istock for three, four or more years --exclusive or not) than simply exclusives. If you are old timer and exclusive I suppose it's even better.
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Actually, in my humble opinion, the new best match tends to favor more old-timers (people who has been on istock for three, four or more years --exclusive or not) than simply exclusives. If you are old timer and exclusive I suppose it's even better.
I've been there just under four years and I don't feel particularly favored. True, the best match seems to be promoting older images, so that is helping old timers, but the bias against independents is too strong for it to be helping most of us.
Paul Cowan is a special case. He shoots a lot of niche items where there just may not be enough competing images to push his to the back.
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Actually, in my humble opinion, the new best match tends to favor more old-timers (people who has been on istock for three, four or more years --exclusive or not) than simply exclusives. If you are old timer and exclusive I suppose it's even better.
I've been there just under four years and I don't feel particularly favored. True, the best match seems to be promoting older images, so that is helping old timers, but the bias against independents is too strong for it to be helping most of us.
Paul Cowan is a special case. He shoots a lot of niche items where there just may not be enough competing images to push his to the back.
Not for me either. I've been there for 3 yrs and this month (after the best match change) is the worst month of this year.
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It wouldn't be just the time... time itself, wouldn't mind anything if these years ago you were uploading few files, or if these files were no up to today's standard quality-commerciality. So, you'd have to adc quantity, commerciality and quality to time.
But I can be wrong, of course. That's just an hypotesys I've made looking at the search results.
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Hi all,
did some of you already complain about it with istock? What do you think about sending a collective complain to make them hear our voice louder?
Diego
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Hi all,
did some of you already complain about it with istock?
About 35 pages worth and counting..
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=78277&page=1 (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=78277&page=1)
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Hi all,
did some of you already complain about it with istock? What do you think about sending a collective complain to make them hear our voice louder?
Diego
Yep!
Please see the above noted thread and the 80 page one on the same subject immediately preceding it. :)
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I love a good conspiracy theory now and then. Once a company gets taken over, especially by investment firms, I wonder about the soundness of their management skills. All that is visible to them, at least in my eyes, is the length and size of the number on the bottom of the income statement. The temptation to tweak is insatiable. iStock is somewhat unique, in that it seems a lot of their senior people are still there. That certainly hasn't been the case with many takeovers of macro agencies. I know a lot of folks absolutely adore iStock but I have to say, from experience that big money has little respect for its suppliers, especially when there are many many suppliers. Since iStocks's purchase by Getty and Getty's subsequent takeover the playing field has changed dramatically. It may not look like too much has changed from this side of the operation but from the inside I'll bet anything that it ain't the same place at all. The pressure to constantly perform, then outperform, then outperform the outperformance is huge. In many ways I'm glad I came into this thing late in the game, there is no chance of being exclusive for me. Again I'm sure I'm going to ruffle a lot of feathers but I am very happy I am not exclusive at this point even if the last search shuffle was in the exclusive's favour.
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Well I don't know how my images are being found, but this week hasn't been too bad - up about 30% on last week. Still the gap between IS and FT and DT in particular is constantly shrinking.
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the impact has been pretty bitter for me resulting in several "zero download" days and significant drop since the change.I hope they will switch back soon same goes for FT as well.
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One more time Best Mismatch sucks for me ??? ???
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I'm an independent and this last change seems to be for the better. Yesterday was my best day this month and today is shaping up well.
the 21 october was also my best day this month (almost matching a normal day for october 2006- the year for which sales at IS starts to decline for me), unfortunately the day after and following were again looking much more my present IS standard (30% to 40 % of 2006 sales). I have no clue if the fact I'm not exclusive has a role to play here, but according what I read it has. I think that exlcusive shall be rewarded with higher % share of the pictures sales but exclusivity should not affect best match as best match is suposed to help the buyer to finfd pictures, in that regard exclusive/ non exclusive is not relevant at all.
IS was alwyas my prefered site and the top one for sales, now has became number 3 only in sales and I still feel pushed out...but still like the place....but getting frustrated of this more and more....
jean
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i take it back, good sales lasted exactly a day and a half and then they dried up again. :(
I'm an independent and this last change seems to be for the better. Yesterday was my best day this month and today is shaping up well.
the 21 october was also my best day this month (almost matching a normal day for october 2006- the year for which sales at IS starts to decline for me), unfortunately the day after and following were again looking much more my present IS standard (30% to 40 % of 2006 sales). I have no clue if the fact I'm not exclusive has a role to play here, but according what I read it has. I think that exlcusive shall be rewarded with higher % share of the pictures sales but exclusivity should not affect best match as best match is suposed to help the buyer to finfd pictures, in that regard exclusive/ non exclusive is not relevant at all.
IS was alwyas my prefered site and the top one for sales, now has became number 3 only in sales and I still feel pushed out...but still like the place....but getting frustrated of this more and more....
jean
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The slot system is gone. That is the real problem I think. Then in many searches, you see the same "around" 20 contributors in the first 20 pages. That's representing 80% of the sales
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The slot system is not and never was the solution, because it also punishes people who are specialists, who are very good on one subject. E.g. I specialize on penguins. Currently it would not make a difference for me though, because as a non-exclusive my images are forced back. However think about it. I represent more than 3% of all penguin images on istock photo. And lets hypothetical for the sake of the argument assume by objectively judging that 10 of them are clearly among the best 100. iStock's slotsystem would push 6 of them back and replace them by less good images. Bad for customer and bad for contributor -> Slotsystem = Bad
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This month has been by far my worst month ever at Istock. Only one fifth of what I got last month, which was also a bad month. Overall, using the average of what I have made at IS per month, October is looking to come in at about 14% of what I usually make in 1 month there. That's an 86% drop.
I'm not a big contributor or anything, but I have been on Istock for 12 months and this isn't one of the usual ups and downs for me.
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Any illustrators reading this topic? Hows your month? I'm getting almost no vector sales since the last change. I decided to cancel my pending vectors and wait until this thing is resolved (JJRD said they are working on it but it's been quite a while since then and no change). Where's the point in submitting if my images will get burried and will never get a chance? In the vector topic "best match and vectors" some illustrators said they've done the same.
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...I have been on Istock for 12 months and this isn't one of the usual ups and downs for me.
I have heard statements similar to this and it is beginning to make me wonder if some of the microstock sites have it built into their system to give high sales for the first year (to encourage new contributors), but then remove that increase after the first year.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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I'm not submitting anything at the moment, photos or illustrations - new stuff is just lost with the current best match. I have some illustrations - all from the first half of 2008 - and I think I have only sold 2 or 3 this month. It's as if they weren't there.
It's nice that I have images from 2005 onward to sell, but I'd rather see some opportunity given to new images. We don't want to return to the almost total focus on new images of a few weeks back (although that started to make some hot sellers for me; unfortunately they just got shot in the head with the next shift to focus on older images) - I fail to see how it can be this hard to go back to the reasonable mix of old and new, photos & illustrations, flamers and up-and-comers.
The best match is just busted and I can only hope they're working round the clock to get this straightneed out.
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I get very suspicious when big changes like this happen anywhere. I just wonder if this movement has anything to do with the pending JI sale and their future plans for Istock. Can't you see it now...
"Welcome to Istock, the most Definitive Collection of Affordable Exclusive Content."
With a price tag between Alamay and today's Istock, of course.
But if Joanne isn't being favored as an exclusive, who is again? Ain't me.
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That's a good one.
(http://a0.vox.com/6a00e398be8445000400fa968f0cc00003-pi)
Istock suck ... good for the ones who's making a lot actually and don't care about the forgotten. fellow photographers HA
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I'm holding off on uploading for a little while too until I see what happens over the next couple of weeks. I'll then check the level of effort required vs. expected earnings.
I'm exclusive and my sales have dropped about 35% from the week before the latest best match change. So it's not just non-exclusives that are being hit by this.
This past year has been a test for me to see if I could live off of microstock. A couple weeks ago I would have said yes but I'm not sure about that now. While the hobbyists are frustrated what about the people who got hit and rely upon IS as their primary income? I'm not sure if IS realizes this impact. For some people this best match change may mean having to get a second job or losing a house. I hope they realize this impact and take it into consideration before making such big changes.
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I'm a full timer too - and let me tell you this...I'm glad I don't have all of my eggs in the same basket. Month to month, your sales could fluctuate drastically when things like this happen. Just last month I lost one of my largest referrals due to a "glitch" so my income will be $400 less than last month. Thankfully that's not the only site I submit to. I can also fall back on photo reviewing for extra income.
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I'm a full timer too - and let me tell you this...I'm glad I don't have all of my eggs in the same basket. Month to month, your sales could fluctuate drastically when things like this happen. Just last month I lost one of my largest referrals due to a "glitch" so my income will be $400 less than last month. Thankfully that's not the only site I submit to. I can also fall back on photo reviewing for extra income.
I hear ya but I'm not sure spreading the eggs out is any better for me. Before going exclusive I was with 12 sites and every one of them had something screwy going on that affected my overall income. Only four of them were really producing anything worthwhile and two of them (IS and SS) were 80% of my income. That's not much of a cushion.
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I'm a full timer too - and let me tell you this...I'm glad I don't have all of my eggs in the same basket. Month to month, your sales could fluctuate drastically when things like this happen. Just last month I lost one of my largest referrals due to a "glitch" so my income will be $400 less than last month. Thankfully that's not the only site I submit to. I can also fall back on photo reviewing for extra income.
Referrals at IS pay just 10 $, not 400, and just one time.
On the other hand, this best match is givinvg me back the downloads I lost with other former BMs. Well, maybe some of us have also the rigth to have our turn.
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I'm making about the same as last month (less, but with still 4 days to go), so it doesn't seem I'm much affected, although this means less than 50% of my BME there.
But sometimes I wonder, like in FT, how someone finds my images there, because I try with the most obvious keywords and I don't.
Regards,
Adelaide
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I hear ya but I'm not sure spreading the eggs out is any better for me. Before going exclusive I was with 12 sites and every one of them had something screwy going on that affected my overall income. Only four of them were really producing anything worthwhile and two of them (IS and SS) were 80% of my income. That's not much of a cushion.
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But in the time that you have been an exclusive I have seen significant growth at Dreamstime and recently Fotolia without uploading much at all this year. SS just happens to be slow at the same time as IS though so my income is pretty consistant month to month. You can't entirely measure my personal experience though because I don't have a large sample of photos to totally qualify my statement. But, this month for the second month in a row DT is #1, (BME actually) they were never close at all in the past, but always a consistent #3.
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...I have been on Istock for 12 months and this isn't one of the usual ups and downs for me.
I have heard statements similar to this and it is beginning to make me wonder if some of the microstock sites have it built into their system to give high sales for the first year (to encourage new contributors), but then remove that increase after the first year.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
IS is the only site of my top six that HASN'T shown a steady increase since last year. - i've doubled my total portfolio and my income has increased by 70%; on SS i've tripled my portfolio and doubled sales. on IS i've only added 20% to my port and sales are about the same
so, constant uploading does seem to be needed, but the hassle of doing so on IS doesnt seem to be worth the effort
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Maybe you forget that IS raised prices... that counts for some of the possible lost downloads. That said, looking at income from last year and with a quite big portfolio, I have more than a 50% income growth this year with just a 30% portfolio gorwth, and a dillution of my percentage of images there.
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Has IS actually said that best match will be adjusted to help vector positioning? Or is this likely something that will stay as-is?
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Has IS actually said that best match will be adjusted to help vector positioning? Or is this likely something that will stay as-is?
Here's a response from JJRD in the "best match and vector" topic:
The situation is being addressed, guys... in no way, shape or form is it the willingness of iStockphoto to ''push back'' any content based on medium... and never will.
Stay tuned this one will be fast, trust me, thank you so very much indeed.
And a few days later another one:
Update : yesterday, there was an adjustement that was asked for - and granted - in order to adjust best match for vectors; however, it seems like the adjustement applied did very little as a result. There is another adjustement coming and very soon at that.
Again... thanks to everyone for your patience and understanding... as some things we simply CANNOT control... they simply need to be pushed to the entire collection in a live environment & that's the way that it is.
It looks like they've done a few tweaks already, but I don't think it's enough. Non exclusive new vector files stand no chance atm.
Mike how's your month?
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It looks like they've done a few tweaks already, but I don't think it's enough. Non exclusive new vector files stand no chance atm.
Have you seen any exclusives reporting different status? I guess it's just fun to always assume that the basis of every problem anybody ever has MUST be because they are trying to oppress the non-exclusives.
Helix, if you'd like a more accurate representation of the situation, you might want to visit the thread in the IS illustrator forum.
I think they are gun-shy and don't want to do anything drastic that will yield unexpected results (after all, that's what caused the problem in the first place). My personal opinion is that there was a weighting factor for views/DL that threw the vectors WAY back because on average they get more views -- it's the only way to find out the price of the file. This was a complete surprise to them.
They have done a few tweaks (as mentioned) but definitely more are needed. Several people have posted that they are going to stop uploading new work in the meantime, since ALL new files are being handicapped, and who knows what that will mean to whatever new incarnation the best match takes. Of course there have been a couple of people threatening to throw their toys out of the pram if IS doesn't give their files an advantage NOW but I think most are just in a holding pattern, which completely sucks for this time of year.
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...Mike how's your month?
Slow, but not catastrophically so. At this point I'm going to end up down about 5-10% over the expected income for this time of year. And sure, that sucks, but it sounds like others have taken a much harder hit from this whole best match thing, much more than 10% it seems.
I checked out that IS forum thread and I can't believe how widespread the effect is. Sometimes the top artists are able to weather the storms since their work is top notch and tends to always sell. But there are guys like enjoynz and others in that thread voicing concern and reporting low sales. Crazy.
If that doesn't get the attention of the istock brass, I don't know what will.
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It looks like they've done a few tweaks already, but I don't think it's enough. Non exclusive new vector files stand no chance atm.
Have you seen any exclusives reporting different status? I guess it's just fun to always assume that the basis of every problem anybody ever has MUST be because they are trying to oppress the non-exclusives.
I didn't see them report different status, I think most of illustrators are suffering on this one. But non exclusives even more, because we all know best match favours exclusives. And if exclusives are suffering don't you think it's reasonable to asume it's even worse for non-exclusives? If non exclusives were somehow missed out by this "vectors at the back best match" we would have even more pages of best match topic, since exclsives would be even more frustrated. I only pointed that my point of view: it's not worth the trouble to upload for me since my vectors would get burried deep behind photos and old vectors (fairly new non exclusive with many vectors at the back of my portfolio). And that is the real problem atm.
PS: Don't get me wrong, I think best match preferring exclusives is the right thing to do. How else (besides increased royalites) would you justify abandonning other sites.
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...Mike how's your month?
Slow, but not catastrophically so. At this point I'm going to end up down about 5-10% over the expected income for this time of year. And sure, that sucks, but it sounds like others have taken a much harder hit from this whole best match thing, much more than 10% it seems.
I checked out that IS forum thread and I can't believe how widespread the effect is. Sometimes the top artists are able to weather the storms since their work is top notch and tends to always sell. But there are guys like enjoynz and others in that thread voicing concern and reporting low sales. Crazy.
If that doesn't get the attention of the istock brass, I don't know what will.
It's good to hear that your sales didn't take a nosedive (still bad since sales should be increasing). Luckily I started doing renders and will probably have a BME ($$ wise, downloads are down for me) since I managed to get quite a few XXL sales on them this month.
Yeah it's crazy to read that topic. Usually only smaller portfolios suffer since they have a few well selling files that loose their good positions in the change. But this time it's different, illustrators with diverse/big porftfolios are suffering also.
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Yeah it's crazy to read that topic. Usually only smaller portfolios suffer since they have a few well selling files that loose their good positions in the change. But this time it's different, illustrators with diverse/big porftfolios are suffering also.
Today (so far) and last Monday were down around 50% in revenue and downloads over the previous 6 Mondays. Granted, I only have about 250 images but thought I had a pretty good mix of sellers accross a handful of categories.
What's really strange is a few images that were getting several downloads a day have about stopped. And they really haven't changed best match position much. They're still showing up on the first couple of pages for a category with tens of thousands of images and also a category with very few images.
So, is there something else besides the best match going on? Did the demand for those categories suddenly disappear? Is it possible this best match has affected buyers and they've scaled back on buying at IS? Is there a huge shift toward holiday images?
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After a week or so with the new best match I can see a 30-40% drop in income with IS and in terms of site position it will be fourth place this month for sure.
What frustrates me is the lack of communication by those in the know at iStock. I wish that they would have the balls to come out and say what their policy is rather than hiding behind things like tweaking the best match algorithm. If they want a site of exclusive contributors then come out and say so; don't just grind the non-exclusives out through 'temporary' upload limits and discrimination in the best match search.
But someone did write something funny on the latest 49 page thread. In response to 'I can upload to all the other 5 sites in the time it takes to upload to iStock' someone replied that they must be doing it wrong as it takes them 10 seconds a file!!! Hell, would love to know how they upload!
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But someone did write something funny on the latest 49 page thread. In response to 'I can upload to all the other 5 sites in the time it takes to upload to iStock' someone replied that they must be doing it wrong as it takes them 10 seconds a file!!! Hell, would love to know how they upload!
I know! :D I didn't believe him either!
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They're probably using DeepMeta http://www.deepmeta.com/ (http://www.deepmeta.com/). It's a great piece of software.
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Unless you use a Mac
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I'd like to hear something from the admins as well.
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But someone did write something funny on the latest 49 page thread. In response to 'I can upload to all the other 5 sites in the time it takes to upload to iStock' someone replied that they must be doing it wrong as it takes them 10 seconds a file!!! Hell, would love to know how they upload!
I know! :D I didn't believe him either!
It was me that wrote that all other sites together take less time to upload than IS alone. It's true, I often add phrases for IS, disambiguate, remove some keywords since the right meaning of some words isn't in the CV, upload (photos are easy with deepmeta, but it doesn't work for vectors + you have to zip additional files). I can't imagine how long it would take me to upload 100 files in one shot. Apperently some can do it in 15 minutes ;D
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They're probably using DeepMeta [url]http://www.deepmeta.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.deepmeta.com/[/url]). It's a great piece of software.
But even then, it takes time to prepare files for submission in Deepmeta, doesn't it? I suppose you still have to work with CV, so the alleged 10s looks more like 10min!
Regards,
Adelaide
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I agree Cofko, it takes me around an hour to upload 15 images to istock, including disambiguation, lightbox links in description, adding phrases, etc. It takes me another hour to upload to 7 other sites combined.
In that best match thread, Slobo clarified that he meant it only takes 10 seconds to actually upload the files. Don't believe he was including the time to disambiguate. There is no way in Hades that it only takes 10 seconds if you include disambiguation.
But I suspect that istock exclusives have a keywording advantage there in that they put the istock keytags in their metadata. Independents have to put keywords for all sites in our metadata and then adjust for istock after we upload.
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In that best match thread, Slobo clarified that he meant it only takes 10 seconds to actually upload the files. Don't believe he was including the time to disambiguate. There is no way in Hades that it only takes 10 seconds if you include disambiguation.
No, later on he wrote this:
I mean: Select image for upload, Title, Description, Keywords with DA, Categories, MR if needed and pressing button to UPLOAD. Many times it takes me less than 10 seconds to do it. I can set 100 files at once (my weekly allowance) and send them in batch, must like ftp which is JUST batch uploading minus titles, keywords and categories.
I can't even come up with 30 keywords for an image in that time, sometimes even title takes longer than 10s ;D I think hes exaggerating things. But yeah, I agree with you, we usually keyword for all the agencies and make adjustments for IS later on.
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I think hes exaggerating things.
Geez - yeah, apparently!
Even with that workflow he describes it would take at least a couple of minutes per file.
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I assumed that the keywords were added to the file prior to the upload process. But there is still the disambiguation process, which in no way can be completed in 10 seconds.
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My views are dying here like on Fotolia last several days... >:(
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My views are dying here like on Fotolia last several days... >:(
I tracked the views on my recently approved files on IS. They only got a few views when they were accepted (probably trough browse recent). Since then one file got 1 view and other files got 0 views.
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I hope that this is not the way to get rid of new photographers.
"Devil shits on a large bunch!"
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I hope that this is not the way to get rid of new photographers.
"Devil shits on a large bunch!"
Yes, that is what it is. They are trying to get rid of all vector artists, too, and all videographers. Instead of just not accepting new contributors during the application process, they thought it would be more fun to approve them and then just kill whatever work they produce. But only those that belong to non-exclusives. Oh, and they are also hoping that this will discourage everyone from uploading anything at all so there won't be any new work that they have to inspect. They just want to let the inspectors take a break from inspecting new files so that they can catch up on going through and removing all the relevant keywords from a bunch of files. But only those that belong to non-exclusives.
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Not only my sales plummeted, but also I didn't sell anything bigger than medium in two weeks. That's quite unusual.
To top it off some *!~ is killing all my keyword in my better selling files. I sincerely hope the best match will get another revision soon. I don't think it can get any worse.
EDIT: got a L sale today. yay.
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I don't think it can get any worse.
I bet they are working on this right now. ;D
Regards,
Adelaide
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One nice consequence of this best match is that difficults very much the "work" of a handful of contributors specialized in copying successful images/concepts, often down to the keywords, with the hope of having a best search psition than the original, and "get" its downloads.
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One nice consequence of this best match is that difficults very much the "work" of a handful of contributors specialized in copying successful images/concepts, often down to the keywords, with the hope of having a best search psition than the original, and "get" its downloads.
Yeah, I've enjoyed that little perk as well, having the first of a subject on the site that ended up being copied by dozens of others. My originals have been selling again.
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One nice consequence of this best match is that difficults very much the "work" of a handful of contributors specialized in copying successful images/concepts, often down to the keywords, with the hope of having a best search psition than the original, and "get" its downloads.
Yeah, I've enjoyed that little perk as well, having the first of a subject on the site that ended up being copied by dozens of others. My originals have been selling again.
This is a really good point! It's nice to see older files sell.
Unfortunately my overall sales are down so badly this past week that it's hard to see a silver lining. If not for great sales the first week, before the new best match, October would be tragic for me. As it is it managed to tie my summer months (?!) and down a bit on Sept.
If this best match continues though, I will have the most dismal November ever.
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As it goes on, Lisa you seem to be one of the few photographers who still acknowledges that the vector/video slam is a problem. (Thank you for that!) I've grown a bit weary of hearing the "it's your turn to lose" argument from those who are obviously benefiting hugely from this error (since I don't remember having a turn to WIN yet!!) and I wish that iStock would not have promised a "fast" resolution and then not only NOT delivered that fast resolution, but also have been completely silent to explain why it's not quite as fast as (I hope) they had planned.
I have no doubt that they are working on it, but it pisses me to no end to get promises and then the silent treatment.
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This is the first month where Fotolia took 2nd place (after Shutterstock) instead of Istock. October will be a BME for every stock site, except Istock. Istock will reach 50% BELOW BME.
Congratulations Fotolia for covering my Istock loss !
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As it goes on, Lisa you seem to be one of the few photographers who still acknowledges that the vector/video slam is a problem. (Thank you for that!) I've grown a bit weary of hearing the "it's your turn to lose" argument from those who are obviously benefiting hugely from this error (since I don't remember having a turn to WIN yet!!) and I wish that iStock would not have promised a "fast" resolution and then not only NOT delivered that fast resolution, but also have been completely silent to explain why it's not quite as fast as (I hope) they had planned.
I have no doubt that they are working on it, but it pisses me to no end to get promises and then the silent treatment.
Photographers may not be saying it much, but the buyers who have weighed in on that thread have said they WANT the best match to mix the various types of media.
To borrow a phrase we Americans are hearing a lot in this election, Istock seems to be trying to "redistribute the wealth" with their best match. It really makes me wonder why they are trying so hard to supress some groups and favor others.
I can't help but wonder if overall sales are down and the only way to disguise that fact from their top exclusive contributors is to slant the search heavily in their favor...
My sales on other sites are not reflecting this downward trend at all. In fact, they are showing the expected bump as the holiday season ramps up.
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I can't help but wonder if overall sales are down and the only way to disguise that fact from their top exclusive contributors is to slant the search heavily in their favor...
There are quite a few top exclusive contributors who are vector artists. Remember what the zeitgeist USED to look like? Vectors are big money for istock. Averaging out the most frequent size sales, I'm guessing they have to sell multiple photos to make up for one lost vector sale. I'm not as familiar with video pricing, but I'd say that the same holds true, but that they are less likely to be interchangeable.
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Totally agree about vectors. Their popularity combined with the complexity involved in producing them are good reasons to keep them visible.
I honestly believe that has been an unintended consequence of this latest best match. Can't imagine istock would intentionally bury its vectors, but I am baffled why this has gone on a couple of weeks and still not fixed....???
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. It really makes me wonder why they are trying so hard to supress some groups and favor others. I can't help but wonder if overall sales are down and the only way to disguise that fact from their top exclusive contributors is to slant the search heavily in their favor...
Any best match or any default search result at any site will favore some groups and prejudice others, I think this is easy to understand.
About overall sales... do the math, now the numbers are available. I don't see any sign of sales going down. Ath this has merit, considering the price increase.
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...considering the price increase.
Price increase!
Did I miss something?
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I meant price increase last Jaunuary.
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The new best match has caused me to start submitting to other sites. I was very close to going exclusive there but it's not worth the risk so now I am going to expand to other sites. BTW sales down 50% with the last half of the month closer to 70% down and all this when I am having BMEs on 5 other sites.
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About overall sales... do the math, now the numbers are available. I don't see any sign of sales going down
Where can we see those figures? I have been presuming that their growth, while certainly not at a standstill, was likely slowing but that has only been a hunch based on anecdotal evidence to be honest and seeing much faster growth on the other sites - would love to see actual figures showing that they were as strong as ever ... might change my strategy a bit ...?
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About overall sales... do the math, now the numbers are available. I don't see any sign of sales going down
Where can we see those figures? I have been presuming that their growth, while certainly not at a standstill, was likely slowing but that has only been a hunch based on anecdotal evidence to be honest and seeing much faster growth on the other sites - would love to see actual figures showing that they were as strong as ever ... might change my strategy a bit ...?
These actual numbers have not been made public by iStock. Anything that you can compile on your own is not going to be an exact dollar amount because there is absolutely no way to know whether 1 download = 1 credit or 15 credits.