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Author Topic: Is iStock dead in Europe?  (Read 9444 times)

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« on: November 29, 2010, 02:57 »
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I'm more than 50% down in downloads over Thanksgiving Thursday and Friday, over 70% down in dollars. This tells me that the European share of sales has fallen dramatically this year... How are your figures?


« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 03:27 »
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Wow you're down over 50% for the Thanksgiving hoildays, who would have foreseen that coming.  ;D

RT


« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 04:41 »
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Or another way of looking at it is that 50% of your downloads and 70% of your income comes from the US.

It's a bit of a drastic statement just based on two days sales - advance warning expect your downloads to drop to almost zero over 25th/26th December, but that doesn't mean iStock is dead worldwide  :P

« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 04:41 »
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My end of the month was also almost dead at IS. I suspect the fault falls to Thanksgiving holiday.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 04:48 »
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My past two weeks on iStock have been really grim. I don't put it down to the Thanksgiving holiday, as in the past three years there wasn't a dip as bad as this in Thanksgiving week, and as the OP suggested, European sales (and Canadian, Australian etc) shouldn't have been affected. On Thursday and Friday I had no sales at all in European business time.
However, some people have reported good weeks. Maybe a best match change, though I haven't noticed (in my regular 'markers') a best match difference so big that it could cause that effect.
What's certain is that overall, things at iStock must have been fine or Big Changes would be made.
Added: This week in '08 and '09 were within a dollar of each other, but this week has netted marginally over half of the amount for the past two years. DLs are just over a quarter of what they were in Nov 08.
Although my Nov may equal, or - with a following wind - surpass, my BMY, it's miles below Nov 09, and many miles below Nov 08, which is still my BME, by miles.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 04:59 by ShadySue »

« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 05:07 »
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SS and Fotolia don't seem to get hit as hard by thanksgiving.  I don't care any more about istock.  The commission cut was the final straw for me, now the only thing I do there is deactivate my images.  I wont leave, as there's a slim chance they will sell to owners that aren't just focused on taking more money from their contributors.  If that doesn't happen, my portfolio will slowly disappear.

lagereek

« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 05:24 »
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SS and Fotolia don't seem to get hit as hard by thanksgiving.  I don't care any more about istock.  The commission cut was the final straw for me, now the only thing I do there is deactivate my images.  I wont leave, as there's a slim chance they will sell to owners that aren't just focused on taking more money from their contributors.  If that doesn't happen, my portfolio will slowly disappear.

Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.

rubyroo

« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 05:42 »
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I must say that I, too, had a huge drop on IS - so it seemed fair to think that the bulk of sales there come from the US.

However... I also took a huge hit on SS sales - and the new map has demonstrated that most of my sales there are in Europe, followed by Africa, Australia and Japan with the US pretty much bottom of the list... so I really don't understand why those sales would have been affected by Thanksgiving.

Very puzzling.

« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 05:48 »
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Bad weather in a lot of places in the UK. Snow and freezing conditions. An inch of snow here and normal life grinds to a halt. Could be something to do with it.

« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 05:56 »
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SS and Fotolia don't seem to get hit as hard by thanksgiving.  I don't care any more about istock.  The commission cut was the final straw for me, now the only thing I do there is deactivate my images.  I wont leave, as there's a slim chance they will sell to owners that aren't just focused on taking more money from their contributors.  If that doesn't happen, my portfolio will slowly disappear.

Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.
So we just put up with it?  I think that's foolish.  If I don't enjoy working with someone, I move on to other things.  They have made it harder for non-exclusives and now they want to reduce their already lowest commission.  No thanks, I will concentrate on the other sites.  If they all end up as bad as istock, I will use other ways to make a living from photography or do something else.

Currently all the other sites I use pay a much higher commission than istock and some still pay me 50% or more.  I just don't believe that istock's commissions were unsustainable for them, that really is unbelievable and has lost any respect I might of once had for them.

« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 06:15 »
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Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat,
The Titanic?
whats the point in deactivating?,
Revenge  :P
youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.,
As in LuckyOliver, Pixamba, Featurepics, Zymmetrical.
What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
15% at the tail of the search engine and 85% for some corporate sharks? No thanks. I'm often Mother Theresa but not if 85% goes to bonuses for a private equity firm. For 15%, I'd prefer to throw my moderate stuff on Flickr for free. It's a free world. Contributing to IS was a mistake. Contributing to SS was not.

« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 06:25 »
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Don't worry, there will be some exclusives coming on soon to say it was their BDE and BME!

Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.

I don't believe that. I don't see other sites making big pushes to drive non-exclusives from their business and bs'ing the exclusives into believing that they are going to become millionaires, all the while taking more and more % from them. And no, if you are exclusive, we are NOT in the same boat.

« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 07:46 »
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From now on I'm going to upload so much to the other sites that IS sooner or later becomes unimportant to my overall earnings. It's not happening overnight though.

« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 10:34 »
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Sales in european "hours" have been growing without pause for me.

vlad_the_imp

« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 11:04 »
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Quote
bs'ing the exclusives into believing that they are going to become millionaires,

Must say I missed that info, do you have a link?

« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 11:47 »
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Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.

First, we're not all in the same boat; we independents are being treated particularly badly, even as iStock adjusts its other programs to at least partially compensate exclusives for their loss of royalty percentage.  And secondly, what happens at iStock will only influence the rest of the market to the degree we permit it by quiet acceptance.  I won't accept it, and I hope all the other agencies show a better long term business sense.  I'm continuing to delete a few images a day from iStock.  Granted, it's still the worst performers that I'm removing, but once those are gone it'll be the small money earners and then the medium and eventually my best sellers.  I won't stop until either they're all gone or iStock's current or new owners treat my work with more respect.

« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 11:59 »
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Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.

First, we're not all in the same boat; we independents are being treated particularly badly, even as iStock adjusts its other programs to at least partially compensate exclusives for their loss of royalty percentage.  And secondly, what happens at iStock will only influence the rest of the market to the degree we permit it by quiet acceptance.  I won't accept it, and I hope all the other agencies show a better long term business sense.  I'm continuing to delete a few images a day from iStock.  Granted, it's still the worst performers that I'm removing, but once those are gone it'll be the small money earners and then the medium and eventually my best sellers.  I won't stop until either they're all gone or iStock's current or new owners treat my work with more respect.

Question, why are you only deleting your non-sellers or worst performers. Wouldn't it better if you just deleted your top sellers?  I mean if you're going to take a stand deleting the top sellers would really show them.

vlad_the_imp

« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 12:10 »
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Quote
and eventually my best sellers.

I'm also not sure why they should be last. In fact why not just leave IS if you're not happy with their behavior towards yourself? That would really show them. Wouldn't it?

« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 12:31 »
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Question, why are you only deleting your non-sellers or worst performers. Wouldn't it better if you just deleted your top sellers?  I mean if you're going to take a stand deleting the top sellers would really show them.

Because I'm greedy, and I'd like to maximize my income from iStock as I head out the door.  And because I can send a message now, before the royalty cut takes effect, by reducing the size of my portfolio (and the required comment on each deactivation makes the reason clear).  And because if there's even a faint hope of reconsideration on their part, whatever I've left are the images that are most likely to make money.  Which makes it a weaker gesture than just deleting everything, but I figure any action at all makes a point.

« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2010, 12:59 »
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Yes way down low at IS also here be in in Europe or wherever .... to think once upon a time they were way ahead of the rest come the new year when the ridiculous percentages cuts kick in doubt I will be bothering much with IS, simply not worth the effort for the returns alas

« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2010, 13:07 »
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From now on I'm going to upload so much to the other sites that IS sooner or later becomes unimportant to my overall earnings.
This has been my plan. I stopped uploading to IS a few months ago. My IS sales have dropped in half, but the sales at other sites more than make up for the loss. Why should I contribute to IS when they want to drive non-exclusives out of business? IS is the enemy now, how else can you look at it?

Re Thanksgiving weekend. It was my best weekend ever at SS, and was pretty good elsewhere (not IS of course).

lagereek

« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2010, 14:45 »
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Don't worry, there will be some exclusives coming on soon to say it was their BDE and BME!

Dont be foolish!  were all in the same boat, whats the point in deactivating?  youve put down a lot of work, long hours, etc, etc.  What happend at IS,  is the hallmark of whats going, probably to happen, sooner or later with all the sites.
Its not as it used to be, you know, today investors, bankers, etc, owns creative outlets and thats the problem.

I don't believe that. I don't see other sites making big pushes to drive non-exclusives from their business and bs'ing the exclusives into believing that they are going to become millionaires, all the while taking more and more % from them. And no, if you are exclusive, we are NOT in the same boat.

Yeah but more fools the stupid exclusives then, if they believe that. What I mean is this:  if 30, Diamond, non exclusives stopped uploading and deactivating well?  might just have a small effect but anything less then that means nothing to these guys and the only loosers are the people doing it. Fair enough if you got a moral aspect, then again how can anyone of us ride on moral aspects supplying Micro in the first place? think about it.

lagereek

« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2010, 14:48 »
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Bad weather in a lot of places in the UK. Snow and freezing conditions. An inch of snow here and normal life grinds to a halt. Could be something to do with it.

Hi Dave!  how goes?

Dont even mention the weather!!!!  we had four days of snow, leaving 50 cm of snow deapth, horrible, plus a damned Nordic/arctic storm wind, plus some 13 below zero!  havent you noticed how deadly quiet these global-warming people have become,  not a word.

« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2010, 15:28 »
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Hi Chris. Fine thanks. You?

We've has a fair chunk of snow in the UK. Some places looked like they'd had the same as you about 50 cm.

(Back on topic) The reason i mentioned it is unlike Sweden we're not set up for it. Lots of news pictures of cars getting stuck etc. People don't get to work, and they don't buy images. The UK alone buys about as many images as one of the better buying US states (according to a list I saw ages ago on the IS forums) so it's not insignificant. If the rest of Europe is affected then it's bound to have some effect.

Lets hope we're not in for another 62-63 winter!

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2010, 15:31 »
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More easily than many people, designers can surely work from home?

« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2010, 15:43 »
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More easily than many people, designers can surely work from home?
You'd think so, and it would make sense if they did, but there seems to be a sort of madness grips us here though whenever we get snow. I think a lot of people take an unofficial holiday and take the kids to play in the snow!

Whatever the case, I've noticed a dip in sales in the past when there's been snow here. Could be anything really of course, but it's a thought.

« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2010, 16:41 »
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...how can anyone of us ride on moral aspects supplying Micro in the first place? think about it.
I don't have a moral problem with selling cheap images.  There are people that don't have $200 to spend on one photo for their blog.  I think if they didn't use microstock, they would use free sites.  I do think the sites could charge more for some uses but that's something I can tolerate.  I do have a problem when sites want to take more than 80% of the sales price and claim their business is unsustainable when clearly it isn't.

rubyroo

« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2010, 17:14 »
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@ Difydave - I'm in the UK too.  Strange isn't it?  Every time we get bad weather here, it's as though no-one ever experienced it before.  So different in the States, where they're so well-prepared for it (I have a brother over there and was amazed to see how well-prepared they are for all weather threats).

But I don't think the UK's issues caused my drop in SS last week.  Most of my sales there seem to be from France, Italy and Germany.  Perhaps they had bad weather then?  Anyway... it's picked up again today.. so whatever the reason for the drop, I hope it's over!  :)

Stay warm!  :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2010, 18:33 »
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@ Difydave - I'm in the UK too.  Strange isn't it?  Every time we get bad weather here, it's as though no-one ever experienced it before.  So different in the States, where they're so well-prepared for it (I have a brother over there and was amazed to see how well-prepared they are for all weather threats).

But I don't think the UK's issues caused my drop in SS last week.  Most of my sales there seem to be from France, Italy and Germany.  Perhaps they had bad weather then?  Anyway... it's picked up again today.. so whatever the reason for the drop, I hope it's over!  :)

Stay warm!  :)
Well, things have perked up a bit today, helped by 4 UK winter dls. As usual, old ones, not the ones I took last winter.

lisafx

« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2010, 18:55 »
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@ Difydave - I'm in the UK too.  Strange isn't it?  Every time we get bad weather here, it's as though no-one ever experienced it before.  So different in the States, where they're so well-prepared for it (I have a brother over there and was amazed to see how well-prepared they are for all weather threats).


Your brother must live in some Northern state.  I'm from Kentucky and 2 inches of snow was enough to close the schools.  More than that and everything ground to a complete halt. 

Now I live in Florida and we are huge babies here.  If the weather goes below 60 (F) we put on the heaters and won't leave the house, LOL. 

rubyroo

« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2010, 19:14 »
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@ Lisa - At that time, he lived in New York State, and they had really bad winters - so he had snow tyres and chains and snow-spades and all sorts in the garage.  In the summer they used to bring out mesh panels they inserted outside the windows to keep the insects at bay while still allowing the windows to open... inwards.  I was stunned by the brilliance of that.  AFAIK, all windows in the UK (apart from sash windows) open outwards, so that's not even an option.  Of course he had air conditioning for the summer too.  I've yet to meet anyone in the UK who has air conditioning at home.

He took me to one of the US's huge outdoor wear shops, and everything seemed so incredibly practical and strong.  Not at all fashionable or stylish, just entirely practical - which is what you need in severe weather.  I wonder if we're a bit too style and fashion-conscious in this part of the world... and maybe practicality suffers as a result.  Having said that, there's more functional clothing available here now than then (in the early 90's), but I still think the US is better equipped.

I'm surprised to hear what you've said - but that's just because I forget how vastly different the climate is across the various States.  The UK is so small in comparison, it's easy to forget how large the North American land mass actually is.  LOL @ heaters when it's 60(F)   :D

@ Shady Sue - so glad to hear your sales have picked up too!  ;D
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 19:16 by rubyroo »

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2010, 19:17 »
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I'm surprised to hear what you've said - but that's just because I forget how vastly different the climate is across the various States.  The UK is so small in comparison, it's easy to forget how large the North American land mass actually is.  LOL @ heaters when it's 60(F)   :D

I have to admire those resilient folks from the colder states.  I think the good climate in Florida has made us weak and lazy ;)

I am sure most of the UK population is quite rugged by comparison to us Floridians ;D

« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2010, 20:15 »
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@ Lisa - At that time, he lived in New York State, and they had really bad winters - so he had snow tyres and chains and snow-spades and all sorts in the garage.  In the summer they used to bring out mesh panels they inserted outside the windows to keep the insects at bay while still allowing the windows to open... inwards.  I was stunned by the brilliance of that.  AFAIK, all windows in the UK (apart from sash windows) open outwards, so that's not even an option.  Of course he had air conditioning for the summer too.  I've yet to meet anyone in the UK who has air conditioning at home.

He took me to one of the US's huge outdoor wear shops, and everything seemed so incredibly practical and strong.  Not at all fashionable or stylish, just entirely practical - which is what you need in severe weather.  I wonder if we're a bit too style and fashion-conscious in this part of the world... and maybe practicality suffers as a result.  Having said that, there's more functional clothing available here now than then (in the early 90's), but I still think the US is better equipped.

I'm surprised to hear what you've said - but that's just because I forget how vastly different the climate is across the various States.  The UK is so small in comparison, it's easy to forget how large the North American land mass actually is.  LOL @ heaters when it's 60(F)   :D

@ Shady Sue - so glad to hear your sales have picked up too!  ;D

I've lived in upstate New York my whole  life. Winters can be brutal here, especially with the volume of snow that accumulates. It's especially bad for us because we live near Lake Ontario, so we get tons of lake effect snow. I've had to shovel off the garage roof a few times, to keep it from collapsing under the weight of the snow. You keep shoveling and shoveling, then it reaches the point where there's just no place to put the %$#! snow! Winter lasts 5 months up here, and it gets very cold, too - lows can go down in the single digits (Fahrenheit). I've even seen it below 0, but that's rare.
Summer can be pretty extreme, too. Humidity gets very high sometimes, and we can get temperatures in the high 80's and 90's (Fahrenheit) during heat waves. Combine that with the high humidity and you feel like you're in the tropics. We have central air conditioning, a good furnace, a winter emergency kit in the car, storm windows, snow blower, ect, ect... Oh yeah and the highest property taxes in the US, too. Lucky us ;-)

« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2010, 20:49 »
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@ Difydave - I'm in the UK too.  Strange isn't it?  Every time we get bad weather here, it's as though no-one ever experienced it before.  So different in the States, where they're so well-prepared for it (I have a brother over there and was amazed to see how well-prepared they are for all weather threats).

Stay warm!  :)

----------------------------------------
.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 12:30 by Sadstock »

jbarber873

« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2010, 21:00 »
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I'm surprised to hear what you've said - but that's just because I forget how vastly different the climate is across the various States.  The UK is so small in comparison, it's easy to forget how large the North American land mass actually is.  LOL @ heaters when it's 60(F)   :D

I have to admire those resilient folks from the colder states.  I think the good climate in Florida has made us weak and lazy ;)

I am sure most of the UK population is quite rugged by comparison to us Floridians ;D

 My daughter is going to be going to college in Burlington, VT, where on the school tour one of the students explained that , because they are by the lake, when it snows a lot in the rest of Vermont, they only get a "dusting" of a foot or so. No school closings for these guys ;D


 

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