MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: gostwyck on November 25, 2014, 12:26
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... with some implications for contributors;
Dear Contributor,
As you may know, iStock has been operating as a separate business unit in the Getty Images family and all of iStock’s customer and contributor relationships have been tied to iStockphoto LP, a Calgary-based company.
Over the past several years, we have been taking steps to integrate and operate as a unified business. The benefits of this unified approach are increased cross-selling to customers, increased cross-placement of content to maximize sales potential and a more efficient business allowing us to increase investment in customer-facing improvements. We are still early in realizing the benefits of this unification and are now ready to incorporate iStock into the Getty Images global legal structure to set the foundation for further progress.
How does this affect me?
On December 15, 2014, we will amend the Artist’s Supply Agreement (ASA) to change the Compensation section to reflect that you will no longer be required to request payments. The ASA amendment will be made available on the site for your review and acceptance at least 30 days in advance of any changes to the payment systems.
After the new ASA has taken effect (January 15, 2015), and once the ability to request payment has been removed (the last day to request payment will be January 21, 2015), account balances of $100 and over will be paid to contributors automatically on a monthly basis. Additionally, on January 31, 2015, your contributor agreement will be assigned by iStockphoto LP to Getty Images (US), Inc. All of the revised 2014 ASA terms will remain exactly the same except the agreement will be with Getty Images (US), Inc., not iStockphoto LP.
As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015. As part of this change and to aid you with the transition, we will have an automated online interview process on iStock that will help determine the appropriate documentation each contributor should provide to Getty Images. Additionally, through this online interview process you can complete the appropriate forms and submit them. Links to this process will be available in the Contributor Tools section of your iStock profile starting January 22, 2015. 2014 payments will not be impacted by this change
What do I need to do now?
We recommend that you ensure that your mailing address and contact information are correct on your Profile page
We also recommend that you create an account with either PayPal or Payoneer if you do not currently have an account. This can be done directly on the PayPal or Payoneer websites. Skrill (Moneybookers) will no longer be a payment option once the ability to request payment has been removed.
We wanted to give you some advance notice about what is happening so you can be ready for the coming changes. We will provide you with additional details regarding payment and tax as we get closer to launch
In the meantime please take this opportunity to review the FAQs and make note of these important dates.
Sincerely,
The iStock Team
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
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How and when will I be paid?
Payments will be processed on the 25th of the following month and paid using the payment details you have entered in your account. If the 25th falls on a weekend or U.S. holiday, the payment will be made on the first business day prior to that.
This has to be a huge financial windfall for iStock - holding our money all month and then not paying out for an additional 25 days.
Thanks for nothing.
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
You're probably right.
At the rate my sales are dwindling, it's moot for me anyway, but clearly it will impact many people seriously.
BTW, I didn't get the email. ::)
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
I'm safe at 16%.....for now anyway.
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So besides getting less sales, now I have to pay 30% tax to US...
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no skrill??
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Removing Skrill... Thank you very much! >:(
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So besides getting less sales, now I have to pay 30% tax to US...
Why? Your country has no tax treaty with the US?
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
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I can't see Istock HQ still being open in Calgary by the end of 2015.
I know Lobo is insisting on the IS forum that "The Calgary HQ isn't going anywhere". I'm sure he is correct. Those offices will still be in Calgary ... just being rented by a different business.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
They say by the 15th, do they always pay out on the 7th?
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
Without a doubt. Getty isn't in the business of paying people more than 20%. Surely this is another step towards correcting that anomaly that is (or was) iStock.
I actually thought this would have happened by now, though. Kind of surprised the royalty rate flattening hasn't been pushed through this year. Probably by this time next year it will happen.
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
Without a doubt. Getty isn't in the business of paying people more than 20%. Surely this is another step towards correcting that anomaly that is (or was) iStock.
I actually thought this would have happened by now, though. Kind of surprised the royalty rate flattening hasn't been pushed through this year. Probably by this time next year it will happen.
Getty pays 30-40% for RM, will they be lowering that to 20% also?
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It will be great if they could combine the old Getty accounts together with the iStock account and get a single Getty payment, be it once a month.
But I doubt!
They were not able to combine Getty Moment (former Flickr) with Getty Editorial.
If reaching the payout threshold for Getty Moment is not really a problem, it is rather tough for Getty Editorial. So Getty will continue sleep on my few editorial dollars forever!
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
Without a doubt. Getty isn't in the business of paying people more than 20%. Surely this is another step towards correcting that anomaly that is (or was) iStock.
I actually thought this would have happened by now, though. Kind of surprised the royalty rate flattening hasn't been pushed through this year. Probably by this time next year it will happen.
Getty pays 30-40% for RM, will they be lowering that to 20% also?
I think we all know RM is a different beast, and while they would like to pay %20, they're forced to a pay a higher royalty for the unique or harder to find work.
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
Without a doubt. Getty isn't in the business of paying people more than 20%. Surely this is another step towards correcting that anomaly that is (or was) iStock.
I actually thought this would have happened by now, though. Kind of surprised the royalty rate flattening hasn't been pushed through this year. Probably by this time next year it will happen.
Getty pays 30-40% for RM, will they be lowering that to 20% also?
I think we all know RM is a different beast, and while they would like to pay %20, they're forced to a pay a higher royalty for the unique or harder to find work.
Like exclusive work? I think they would get rid of exclusivity if they were going to make everyone 20%, probably no exclusives would stick around if they were getting that.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
They say by the 15th, do they always pay out on the 7th?
On average between the 5th and 7th. The point being that worked because I could expect two/three payments a month at IS to top up the coffers but now i'll have to adjust to one and wait a lot longer for it. Never mind, I've got more important things to worry about - like feeding the cat.
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I feel kinda bad for the folks left in Calgary. But once iStock was bought by Getty, the writing was on the wall.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
They say by the 15th, do they always pay out on the 7th?
On average between the 5th and 7th. The point being that worked because I could expect two/three payments a month at IS to top up the coffers but now i'll have to adjust to one and wait a lot longer for it. Never mind, I've got more important things to worry about - like feeding the cat.
Well I better get my payment by the 7th or you'll hear about it. ;)
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Hmmm...I wonder if this also means all our images will now be available for free through Getty embedding? I was happy to be left out of that (not that it seems to be going much of anywhere).
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
Are you aware of how many hoops you have to jump through to fill in the forms? I and a number of other just gave up and paid the 30% tax witholding on Getty incomes. You don't have to pay again once that income is in the UK ( there is a principal that you only pay tax on income once) but you would probably pay less tax in UK.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
Are you aware of how many hoops you have to jump through to fill in the forms? I and a number of other just gave up and paid the 30% tax witholding on Getty incomes. You don't have to pay again once that income is in the UK ( there is a principal that you only pay tax on income once) but you would probably pay less tax in UK.
Check the iStock forum, it looks like rules have changed. At least for UK contributors.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
Are you aware of how many hoops you have to jump through to fill in the forms? I and a number of other just gave up and paid the 30% tax witholding on Getty incomes. You don't have to pay again once that income is in the UK ( there is a principal that you only pay tax on income once) but you would probably pay less tax in UK.
Check the iStock forum, it looks like rules have changed. At least for UK contributors.
I read what was written there.
It doesn't seem to fully agree with what the US Embassy in the UK site says here:
http://london.usembassy.gov/irs/irsitin.html (http://london.usembassy.gov/irs/irsitin.html)
I guess we'll have to suck it and see, in due course, and make our decisions accordingly.
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Why not payout on the 7th instead of the 25th? Or even the 15th, no they want to hang on to our money as long as possible. >:(
I didn't get the email either. Way to go.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
Not that it makes any difference, looks like I'm getting my first mid week zero sales day in 10 years!
The atmosphere inside iS must pretty rough, there's no hiding behind denial anymore.
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I'm wondering what this really means for Istock as a business and brand name. Will they cease to exist eventually...? Why then would they change from iStockphoto to iStock, if Getty was taking over anyway?
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I just hope they accept a W8 form and not take out any taxes for me in the USA. I, like many of you, have a lot that goes into my tax calculations at the end of the day and taking a fixed % as the only way to deal with taxes is silly. I can't see that they wouldn't offer a W8 option. Other agencies do......I have no taxes taken out from other agencies, then I get slammed only once a year at whatever my net income is.
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
They say by the 15th, do they always pay out on the 7th?
They have for the past four years since I've been submitting there. The only exceptions being when the 7th falls on weekend or holiday, then it comes sooner.
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I'm wondering what this really means for Istock as a business and brand name. Will they cease to exist eventually...? Why then would they change from iStockphoto to iStock, if Getty was taking over anyway?
I don't think they plan that far in advance.
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I'm wondering what this really means for Istock as a business and brand name. Will they cease to exist eventually...? Why then would they change from iStockphoto to iStock, if Getty was taking over anyway?
It's a toxic brand now.
My guess is this time next year iS will be a carbon copy of SS, all images the same price and similar pricing structure to SS.
If that fails they'll probably just fold the whole lot into Getty as a collection and shut the doors, like they have done with every other agency they've ever bought.
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Hmm I wonder if that snark Lobo will have to get a new job now ;D
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I just hope they accept a W8 form and not take out any taxes for me in the USA. I, like many of you, have a lot that goes into my tax calculations at the end of the day and taking a fixed % as the only way to deal with taxes is silly. I can't see that they wouldn't offer a W8 option. Other agencies do......I have no taxes taken out from other agencies, then I get slammed only once a year at whatever my net income is.
They must offer a W8-BEN option, otherwise it's a no-brainer for me. No way I'm going to pay double taxes.
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I just hope they accept a W8 form and not take out any taxes for me in the USA. I, like many of you, have a lot that goes into my tax calculations at the end of the day and taking a fixed % as the only way to deal with taxes is silly. I can't see that they wouldn't offer a W8 option. Other agencies do......I have no taxes taken out from other agencies, then I get slammed only once a year at whatever my net income is.
They must offer a W8-BEN option, otherwise it's a no-brainer for me. No way I'm going to pay double taxes.
Even Getty can not re-write tax treaty laws so the W8 should still work fine.
And even if you did by some mis-fortune end up paying withholding taxes most countries have systems to avoid paying double taxes (at least the UK does anyway)
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I got the email and i havent had images there for years. ::)
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So besides getting less sales, now I have to pay 30% tax to US...
Why? Your country has no tax treaty with the US?
No...
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I'm thinking I can handle any tax changes coming out of this, either by claiming them back internally or being covered by existing treaties (England) to pay zero at source.
What makes my blood really boil is the fact their bean counter toadies have finally figured out a way to hang on to their cash flow for as long as possible - by delaying payment to me for as long as possible.
No different from SS they always payout once per month.
On the 7th !!!!
They say by the 15th, do they always pay out on the 7th?
They have for the past four years since I've been submitting there. The only exceptions being when the 7th falls on weekend or holiday, then it comes sooner.
I just looked over the payments I've received over the last four years, and you are almost exactly correct. There were two exceptions for me: 8 April 2012 and 3 July 2012. I'd say that's remarkable consistency.
The 25th (or, it sounds to me, even later) is totally unacceptable.
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I just hope they accept a W8 form and not take out any taxes for me in the USA. I, like many of you, have a lot that goes into my tax calculations at the end of the day and taking a fixed % as the only way to deal with taxes is silly. I can't see that they wouldn't offer a W8 option. Other agencies do......I have no taxes taken out from other agencies, then I get slammed only once a year at whatever my net income is.
They must offer a W8-BEN option, otherwise it's a no-brainer for me. No way I'm going to pay double taxes.
There is no way you need to pay double taxes, whatever forms you do or don't fill in. If your income is taxed in one country, you don't pay tax on it in the UK. Your accountant will confirm this.
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The 25th (or, it sounds to me, even later) is totally unacceptable.
It's not just those 18 days in difference. It's also that I nowadays make 60% of my royalties through the PP and Subscription sales, and those are only being reported a month later already.
So when I get a subscription download on January 15 next year, Shutterstock will pay out that amount on (or around) February 7 but iStock will most likely pay out the same money only on March 25 (as I don't get to see the sale before early in February). That's about 70 days delay between sale and payment.
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The 25th (or, it sounds to me, even later) is totally unacceptable.
It's not just those 18 days in difference. It's also that I nowadays make 60% of my royalties through the PP and Subscription sales, and those are only being reported a month later already.
So when I get a subscription download on January 15 next year, Shutterstock will pay out that amount on (or around) February 7 but iStock will most likely pay out the same money only on March 25 (as I don't get to see the sale before early in February). That's about 70 days delay between sale and payment.
That's exactly right. I was trying to figure out the wording but you beat me to it. But cashflow is king and leave it to Getty/IS to find a way. Also, sub plans in general are way more favorable for MS companies than credit sales anyway because they (let's say Istock) gets paid for the whole plan up front and doesn't pay YOU until roughly 70 days after that sale of your image happens. For THEM it's 70 days PLUS the delta between that sale to you and when the plan was purchased. Subs really are a scam.
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iStock rolled the two price dice and now they have to go home to live with mom.
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
That much! Pay raise :)
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I'm wondering what this really means for Istock as a business and brand name. Will they cease to exist eventually...? Why then would they change from iStockphoto to iStock, if Getty was taking over anyway?
I don't think they plan that far in advance.
Are you surprised?
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Hmm I wonder if that snark Lobo will have to get a new job now ;D
Yes, he will become an IRS Agent :)
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A lot of people that don't have a 0% tax agreement with the US and their country wont want to give the US government tax and will leave. Don't think getty will mind, they seem to of tried everything else to make people leave istock. If it isn't a quick simple task to get the 0% for a UK contributor, I will probably leave as well.
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A lot of people that don't have a 0% tax agreement with the US and their country wont want to give the US government tax and will leave. Don't think getty will mind, they seem to of tried everything else to make people leave istock. If it isn't a quick simple task to get the 0% for a UK contributor, I will probably leave as well.
Don't you have to do the exact same thing for SS? You've had to do this at Getty already.
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
Isn't this about following tax laws in the United States? I don't see how you can blame Getty for that. Can you explain what they are doing differently than is required by law?
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
Oh ok.
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
Isn't this about following tax laws in the United States? I don't see how you can blame Getty for that. Can you explain what they are doing differently than is required by law?
We don't know yet because their email inferred that they would take out taxes. But if they are following the law we do a W8 and get 1099'd. That's the way it works and I wouldn't think it works any differently at getty. The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
Isn't this about following tax laws in the United States? I don't see how you can blame Getty for that. Can you explain what they are doing differently than is required by law?
We don't know yet because their email inferred that they would take out taxes. But if they are following the law we do a W8 and get 1099 treatment
I didn't read it that way. This is what it says: "As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
That's the same at SS isn't it? You MAY have to have taxes withheld if you aren't from a treaty nation, right?
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
Isn't this about following tax laws in the United States? I don't see how you can blame Getty for that. Can you explain what they are doing differently than is required by law?
We don't know yet because their email inferred that they would take out taxes. But if they are following the law we do a W8 and get 1099 treatment
We do know, you just have to read the whole announcement and the FAQ in the forums. They will ask you for your tax details like all US based agencies. Fill out the W8 and depending on your country's tax treaties with the US you will either get 0% withholdings or a reduced amount or 30% only on US sales. Just like it is on Getty themselves and most likely all other US based agencies (I only can speak for myself and I get 100% of my royalties due to the German-US treaty).
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From the forum: "from what people are saying other sites do exactly the same as Getty"
I'm not sure what Getty does is something to strive towards.
Isn't this about following tax laws in the United States? I don't see how you can blame Getty for that. Can you explain what they are doing differently than is required by law?
We don't know yet because their email inferred that they would take out taxes. But if they are following the law we do a W8 and get 1099 treatment
I didn't read it that way. This is what it says: "As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
That's the same at SS isn't it? You MAY have to have taxes withheld if you aren't from a treaty nation, right?
Right. I amended my post slightly while you made your. But yes.
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The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
"As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
I don't see any scenarios in the email, it looks like they said exactly what you wanted it to say. Did you get a different email than me?
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The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
"As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
I don't see any scenarios in the email, it looks like they said exactly what you wanted it to say. Did you get a different email than me?
The opetive word is JUST. Quit trying to defend a poorly structured email. I am saying they shouldn't have said we may take out taxes. That is inferred in the first statement. They may also have w8 ....where does it say that? It doesn't. That's my point.
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The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
"As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
I don't see any scenarios in the email, it looks like they said exactly what you wanted it to say. Did you get a different email than me?
The operTive word is JUST. I am saying they shouldn't have said we may take out taxes. That is inferred in the first statement.
But they may take taxes out, if you are from a country that doesn't have a treaty or you don't agree to the new terms and do the tax interview. You have to answer some questions and provide some info or they will take taxes out, that's the default if you don't do what they ask.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
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Edited, misread your comment.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
Sure they do. They report sales after the 20th of the next month, and then that payment arrives several months later.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
Sure they do. They report sales after the 20th of the next month, and then that payment arrives several months later.
You are saying they pay nearly 4 months after the sale?
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
He posted that right after I posted about taxes, I assumed that's what he was talking about. I agree that it would be better if we got paid from Getty, Shutterstock, 123RF and any other site as quickly as possible. I don't like having to wait on Getty or Shutterstock until the next month to get paid.
You're not on Shutterstock. So you don't wait to get paid by them.
Shutterstock pays very quickly at the beginning of the month and reports all sales in real time.
iStock doesn't report the bulk of sales (PP, subs, etc.) until the end of the following month, weeks after you've already been paid by Shutter. And now they'll make you wait until the end of the month after that to get paid.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
He posted that right after I posted about taxes, I assumed that's what he was talking about. I agree that it would be better if we got paid from Getty, Shutterstock, 123RF and any other site as quickly as possible. I don't like having to wait on Getty or Shutterstock until the next month to get paid.
You're not on Shutterstock. So you don't wait to get paid by them.
Shutterstock pays very quickly at the beginning of the month and reports all sales in real time.
iStock doesn't report the bulk of sales (PP, subs, etc.) until the end of the following month, weeks after you've already been paid by Shutter. And now they'll make you wait until the end of the month after that to get paid.
I am on Shutterstock, for video and I am waiting for my payment (they are the weakest of the sites I contribute to so I may drop them soon). Still exclusive for photos at iStock. I'm not sure if that is correct either. Your balance changes when the PP and sub sales are counted. They've said if you have $100 in your balance on the 25th then you will get paid. Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it looks like as long as those sales are posted by the 25th you will get paid for them then. If you can find something that contradicts that please post it, I don't think it's been clearly stated one way or the other.
Even if they do pay a month later that's 1 month and 25 days not 3+ months and 20 days like Sean was saying, I'm not sure what he's talking about?
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My last post got whacked so I guess I have to back off now. My question is. If my earnings are in realtime and the money I earn each month is mine why do I have to wait to get what I earned? This is a cash flow grab by Getty. The system should be simple and that is this. Last payout date Jan. 25 your next payment will be on Feb. 25 so the earnings from Jan 25 to Feb 25 with be paid to you. Now on the 25th of each month you will be paid. They are basically taking one month away from you and if you ever had to leave then there is a good chance you will never see that money. I am sure this is legal but ethical it is not!
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
Sure they do. They report sales after the 20th of the next month, and then that payment arrives several months later.
You are saying they pay nearly 4 months after the sale?
Yep. My sales in June 2014 were reported around July 20, 2014 and the payment arrived in my account on September 25, 2014.
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Yep. My sales in June 2014 were reported around July 20, 2014 and the payment arrived in my account on September 25, 2014.
That doesn't sound normal, it didn't take that long for my payment to come in.
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Board Meeting 2006:
Getty: "We are Getty. Lower your shields and surrender your servers. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."
Istock: Yay! This means we can finally kick some Shutterstock ass
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Yep. My sales in June 2014 were reported around July 20, 2014 and the payment arrived in my account on September 25, 2014.
Sales at Istock Sean? Have they re-opened your account?
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Yep. My sales in June 2014 were reported around July 20, 2014 and the payment arrived in my account on September 25, 2014.
Sales at Istock Sean? Have they re-opened your account?
I think he's talking about Getty sales, he still has a small amount left there.
Sean are you sure you reached the payout level then and not a month or two later?
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Yep. My sales in June 2014 were reported around July 20, 2014 and the payment arrived in my account on September 25, 2014.
Sales at Istock Sean? Have they re-opened your account?
I think he's talking about Getty sales, he still has a small amount left there.
Sean are you sure you reached the payout level then and not a month or two later?
No, the amount of the sales report was the amount paid. It wasn't an aggregate amount.
This isn't something new.
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Sorry - the comment was about moving towards an automatic system that pays several months later for sales. Not about taxes.
It doesn't pay 'several months' late. Some people have an agenda here methinks.
He posted that right after I posted about taxes, I assumed that's what he was talking about. I agree that it would be better if we got paid from Getty, Shutterstock, 123RF and any other site as quickly as possible. I don't like having to wait on Getty or Shutterstock until the next month to get paid.
You're not on Shutterstock. So you don't wait to get paid by them.
Shutterstock pays very quickly at the beginning of the month and reports all sales in real time.
iStock doesn't report the bulk of sales (PP, subs, etc.) until the end of the following month, weeks after you've already been paid by Shutter. And now they'll make you wait until the end of the month after that to get paid.
Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it looks like as long as those sales are posted by the 25th you will get paid for them then.
That's a big if. If it's true.
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Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it looks like as long as those sales are posted by the 25th you will get paid for them then.
That's a big if. If it's true.
Either way it looks like you don't get a choice in the matter, you've just got to deal with it or move on.
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The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
"As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
I don't see any scenarios in the email, it looks like they said exactly what you wanted it to say. Did you get a different email than me?
The opetive word is JUST. Quit trying to defend a poorly structured email. I am saying they shouldn't have said we may take out taxes. That is inferred in the first statement. They may also have w8 ....where does it say that? It doesn't. That's my point.
Funny, what I read it to say is "we MAY" ... IF we can get our $hit together and figure out how to withhold the right amount and submit it to the IRS within filing deadlines - otherwise, we will just collect from you retroactively several months after we were supposed to. We're sure eventually someone will graduate from U of Seattle that can figure this coding stuff out and we won't have too much downtime.
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First step to your %20 flat rate.
I would like to see the rates go to 20%. For me that would be an increase. Will only work if they get rid of exclusivity tho.
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Why not payout on the 7th instead of the 25th? Or even the 15th, no they want to hang on to our money as long as possible. >:(
I didn't get the email either. Way to go.
I would like to be paid early also, but they don't finish with the PP, subs, Getty 360 sales for the last month until near the end of the next one, so they got no idea what to pay until then.
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The email should of just said we will follow US tax law, and not Inject one of several scenarios the law allows.
"As a U.S. company, Getty Images (US), Inc. is required to follow Internal Revenue Service regulations, therefore withholding taxes may apply to your payments beginning in early 2015."
I don't see any scenarios in the email, it looks like they said exactly what you wanted it to say. Did you get a different email than me?
The opetive word is JUST. Quit trying to defend a poorly structured email. I am saying they shouldn't have said we may take out taxes. That is inferred in the first statement. They may also have w8 ....where does it say that? It doesn't. That's my point.
I see you edited this after I responded. I don't think I'm 'defending' anything, it seems like clear and simple language. I guess not simple enough for some? Is your point they shouldn't have said they may take out taxes even thought they may have to take out taxes?
I'm not sure I would infer that following US tax laws means anything, US tax laws are notoriously complex. Are you sure you even need a w-8 from what was posted on the forums it looks like you just need to give them your tax identification number:
"There is no documentation required to complete the tax interview. In the tax interview you provide your name, address, tell us your country, provide your tax identification number (either US or Foreign*) answer various questions by checking boxes, etc. it’s quite easy."
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I am on Shutterstock, for video and I am waiting for my payment (they are the weakest of the sites I contribute to so I may drop them soon). Still exclusive for photos at iStock. I'm not sure if that is correct either. Your balance changes when the PP and sub sales are counted. They've said if you have $100 in your balance on the 25th then you will get paid. Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it looks like as long as those sales are posted by the 25th you will get paid for them then. If you can find something that contradicts that please post it, I don't think it's been clearly stated one way or the other.
Even if they do pay a month later that's 1 month and 25 days not 3+ months and 20 days like Sean was saying, I'm not sure what he's talking about?
If I read the statements made correctly, you are wrong in two aspects (I marked them):
First they are accounting until the last day of the month, so you have to reach the $100 before the 30th/31st of a month. This typically will include the GI Sales for the prior month.
But the second one is wrong as well as you are assuming that all sales would happen at the last day of a month. But the "average sale" happens at the 15th of a month. With all PP, Image Subscription and GI Sales, those sales are only reported in the following month and paid another month later. A sale* happening on March 15 will be reported and added to your balance in April which the is getting paid out on May 25th. This is 70 days.
In comparison, a sale happening on Shutterstock on March 15 will be paid out around April 7, that is 23 days. Getty keeps our money three times longer. In addition to already paying the lowest royalty percentage in the industry (at least in microstock).
There is no way you can turn all of this into something like "oh, everyone else is doing it similarly".
(* I need to add that if we are talking about GI Sales, there already can be a delay of up to three months from a customer starting to use the image before the sale is being reported as Getty is giving their big customers quarterly invoicing. But that is a different issue and did not change with the upcoming new system)
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iStock doesn't report the bulk of sales (PP, subs, etc.) until the end of the following month, weeks after you've already been paid by Shutter. And now they'll make you wait until the end of the month after that to get paid.
Oh! I misunderstood. I thought we would get paid on the 25th for all sales of the last month including PP etc. They are making us wait longer than that??!!
I just read MichaelJay's post above and now I am thoroughly confused.
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I am on Shutterstock, for video and I am waiting for my payment (they are the weakest of the sites I contribute to so I may drop them soon). Still exclusive for photos at iStock. I'm not sure if that is correct either. Your balance changes when the PP and sub sales are counted. They've said if you have $100 in your balance on the 25th then you will get paid. Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it looks like as long as those sales are posted by the 25th you will get paid for them then. If you can find something that contradicts that please post it, I don't think it's been clearly stated one way or the other.
Even if they do pay a month later that's 1 month and 25 days not 3+ months and 20 days like Sean was saying, I'm not sure what he's talking about?
If I read the statements made correctly, you are wrong in two aspects (I marked them):
First they are accounting until the last day of the month, so you have to reach the $100 before the 30th/31st of a month. This typically will include the GI Sales for the prior month.
But the second one is wrong as well as you are assuming that all sales would happen at the last day of a month. But the "average sale" happens at the 15th of a month. With all PP, Image Subscription and GI Sales, those sales are only reported in the following month and paid another month later. A sale happening on March 15 will be reported and added to your balance in April which the is getting paid out on May 25th. This is 70 days.
In comparison, a sale happening on Shutterstock on March 15 will be paid out around April 7, that is 23 days. Getty keeps our money three times longer. In addition to already paying the lowest royalty percentage in the industry (at least in microstock).
There is no way you can turn all of this into something like "oh, everyone else is doing it similarly".
Do you have a quote, I haven't looked too closely to see what the cut off dates are for payments. That was my question originally. I also wasn't saying everyone else does it so it's ok, I was disagreeing that it will take 4 months for payments to be made (as Sean was saying, 3+months and 20 days I think is what he said). I think everyone else doing it is bad for contributors too, maybe some places do it to less of a degree but I still would rather get paid as soon as possible.
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Do you have a quote, I haven't looked too closely to see what the cut off dates are for payments. That was my question originally. I also wasn't saying everyone else does it so it's ok, I was disagreeing that it will take 4 months for payments to be made (as Sean was saying, 3+months and 20 days I think is what he said). I think everyone else doing it is bad for contributors too, maybe some places do it to less of a degree but I still would rather get paid as soon as possible.
Maybe start with the very first point in the FAQ: http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&page=1 (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&page=1)
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Do you have a quote, I haven't looked too closely to see what the cut off dates are for payments. That was my question originally. I also wasn't saying everyone else does it so it's ok, I was disagreeing that it will take 4 months for payments to be made (as Sean was saying, 3+months and 20 days I think is what he said). I think everyone else doing it is bad for contributors too, maybe some places do it to less of a degree but I still would rather get paid as soon as possible.
Maybe start with the very first point in the FAQ: [url]http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&page=1[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&page=1[/url])
Well there you go, I guess we'll be waiting a while for those sales to be paid out.
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More crappy news from a crappy business. So Getty is taking over istock's finances/payments. They can hold our money for up to 70 days, all the while using it for a 60 day bond or T-bill and make a little money from our money. The artists supply agreement is a joke too: "If we don't hear from you within that time, we will have deemed you to agree to the agreement". Of course it's not a legal contract folks. Istock is also passing that over to Getty as well. That is important, expect more changes in the future now and in the realm of US law. Another plus for Getty is the possible layoff of the financial people at istock. The Istock Christmas party is going to be a real fun one this year. I stand by belief that the Calgary offices will be gutted soon. If you're a Canadian contributor, all you need is to fill out an W-8 form and send it to Getty/istock to state you're are not an American and not subject to withholding tax. I do it all the time for freelance clients, not a big deal. But istock may subject my earnings to US withholding tax and then send me a T5 as well for Canadian taxes - So istock is in charge, but not really in charge. At this point it doesn't really matter, when you are only making pennies from awful sales, who is going to tax them.
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As much as I resent Getty, I must admit Alamy is much worse in delaying payments.
Out of curiosity, how often do contributors get paid by Stocksy? Every week?
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istock is now de facto just another Getty collection, if they close the Calgary HQ it means it's no more profitable enough to be kept as a spin-off in canada.
but there's no problem with that, i'm surprised they waited so long actually, the problem is istock keeps losing customers and has been mismanaged since day 1 !
they went from being the microstock's market leader to becoming just another irrilevant collection like Thinkstock .. says it all about getty's managers unless this was their plan from the start ?
talking about collections, i'm seeing more and more excellent images on IS and SS, in most of the cases with 0 downloads and 0 views, it's a shame and indeed it's a buyers market nowadays !
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As much as I resent Getty, I must admit Alamy is much worse in delaying payments.
Out of curiosity, how often do contributors get paid by Stocksy? Every week?
Monthly. And I typically have the money in my bank account on the third business day of the followin month.
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+1 for IStock is now effectively dead. It is just another Getty collection. Pretty much everyone saw it coming the day they took over, one of the reasons we have been so peeved with all the "we will be maintaining our independence" BS. It would have been a lot smoother if they just announced the plan to start with rather than leading us on, and I'm guessing also leading on much off IStock's staff.
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I suppose the good news is that I will never have to visit the site again, unless it is to remove my portfolio. It used to be fun to go there years ago but even getting my earnings paid has felt tedious lately.
What I find hard to comprehend is how FT and DT have failed to overtake istock in the earnings poll for independents. Just goes to show that the only big site that has had an effective strategy to maximise their earnings in recent years is shutterstock.
I am sure istock, FT and DT would all be making much more money if they had given us an incentive to increase our earnings. Making it harder to make money has stopped me uploading new images, I just don't see the point in working harder to make less money.
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Last month FT was ahead of IS for the first time, mostly because Istock PP is going downhill.
Lost all my hope for DT though.
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Last month FT was ahead of IS for the first time, mostly because Istock PP is going downhill.
Lost all my hope for DT though.
Opposite for me, DT is steadily increasing with FT steadily decreasing. All in the context that I upload like crazy and work 7 days a week.
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What I told you several years ago! Istock will vanish through time..
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The way I understand it is that no withholding tax is taken out if you are a US citizen and fill out the required W8 form.
For myself, I am in a treaty nation and I fill out the W9 form and pay 5% ... the important thing to remember here is that it is only 5% of my income on sales to US customers, overseas sales are not taxed. So if I sell something for $1.50 to someone from Europe .. zero tax, someone in the US I pay 8c tax.
As for payments of I use this month as an example:
Anything up to and including the last day of this month will be paid on the 25th of next month.
PP and subs I earned this month are not added in general until the last few days of next month (generally after the 25th, occasionally before). Therefore these will be added AFTER the cut off for payment next month so will not be paid till the 25th of the following month. So in some cases these downloads are paid into our accounts nearly 3 months later than they occurred.
EG: a sub sold on the 2nd January, is reported to your account on the 28th February, Paid out on the 25th March.
I am guessing that being paid out monthly is probably to comply with IRS rules and is probably easier for the accountants. Things being reported in real time with more transparency would certainly be beneficial.
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Why not payout on the 7th instead of the 25th? Or even the 15th, no they want to hang on to our money as long as possible. >:(
I didn't get the email either. Way to go.
Because IS is incompetent and unable to process sales for 30 days or more sometimes. They have to delay payments up to 45 days, and hold on to our money as long as possible. Nothing like SS that reports sales the same day and pays first week of the following month.
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This whole conversation is dumb. Most of us know what the tax law is and how it applies. If you don't ask your accountant. It's that simple. They simply are giving fair warning. I guess there are some scenarios where taxes are withheld. I know it doesn't apply to me.
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Why not payout on the 7th instead of the 25th? Or even the 15th, no they want to hang on to our money as long as possible. >:(
I didn't get the email either. Way to go.
Because IS is incompetent and unable to process sales for 30 days or more sometimes. They have to delay payments up to 45 days, and hold on to our money as long as possible. Nothing like SS that reports sales the same day and pays first week of the following month.
Money on their account for a longer period mean more bank interests in Getty's pocket! One way more to earn extra money, and how to show themselves as a "solvent" company with lot of cash due to their rating on stock market...
So conclusion is that Getty doesn't see us as their Partners in any way... We work more for them than for ourselves just because of "a thought", it is easier than digging channels in dirt...
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Why not payout on the 7th instead of the 25th? Or even the 15th, no they want to hang on to our money as long as possible. >:(
I didn't get the email either. Way to go.
Because IS is incompetent and unable to process sales for 30 days or more sometimes. They have to delay payments up to 45 days, and hold on to our money as long as possible. Nothing like SS that reports sales the same day and pays first week of the following month.
Money on their account for a longer period mean more bank interests in Getty's pocket! One way more to earn extra money, and how to show themselves as a "solvent" company with lot of cash due to their rating on stock market...
So conclusion is that Getty doesn't see us as their Partners in any way
We aren't and never have been 'partners'.
They are a business!
You are a business!
It's their job to make money for themselves.
It's your job to make money for your business. How you do that is solely up to you.
Expecting iStock or any MS Site to help you is naive.
But totally agree with your first sentence.
"Money on their account for a longer period mean more bank interests in Getty's pocket!"
There are also other costs involved with paying on demand as opposed to the new method.
This will save them millions in the long run.
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Money on their account for a longer period mean more bank interests in Getty's pocket! One way more t earn extra money, and to show themselves as a solvent company with lot of cash because of their rating on stock market...
So conclusion is that Getty doesn't see us as their Partners in any way
They are a private company - they are not on the stock market.
If they did ever manage to get the company into consistently good enough shape for an IPO to be taken seriously - I do not see how this would make any difference to the amount of cash they have in hand. Think about how flow works. They are not changing the total rate of flow. And the accounting would be transparent anyhow. Conclusion - this is a conspiracy theory.
I agree however that they are likely trying to add value by gradually getting the company into better shape. Probably (maybe) ultimately for an IPO. I am sure they would love that - but who knows whether conditions will be suitable again anytime soon. Although I cannot see any other reason why they would possibly want it to be consolidated in the USA if it were going to remain private. The US seems like a crazy place for a revenue based virtual business to be based otherwise.
I think that Shutterstock were very lucky with their timing. Sentiment is very different today and these people do not seem to have the same momentum behind them today. I cannot see an IPO exciting so much interest today.
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istock is now officially a laughing stock !
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istock is now officially a laughing stock !
That became official years ago.
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I also agree that any relation to any IPO makes not that much sense. Accounting related the royalties are still due payments, they are not added to their profit margin. And based on the last numbers we know, we are probably talking about $10 millon payouts delayed by a month, given the current interest rates, we are talking about less than $20,000 a month that could be earned in interests.
It is likely that they are going to make more savings from removing the additional acccounting and tax departments they had to keep running in Calgary. And that's what I think is the most important reason for the change.
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I'm probably in the minority here but I have no problem with long waits for payment. As long as it comes eventually and somewhat regularly, I'm happy. To me, waiting a month or two for payment is not only acceptable but pretty normal. My freelance clients often take about as long to pay. Some less, some more, but my invoices are always Net 45 and I have no issue with waiting that long. I've had the occasional client who regularly took 70+ days to pay me, so if a stock agency takes a month or two, I'm not concerned.
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I'm probably in the minority here but I have no problem with long waits for payment. As long as it comes eventually and somewhat regularly, I'm happy. To me, waiting a month or two for payment is not only acceptable but pretty normal. My freelance clients often take about as long to pay. Some less, some more, but my invoices are always Net 45 and I have no issue with waiting that long. I've had the occasional client who regularly took 70+ days to pay me, so if a stock agency takes a month or two, I'm not concerned.
Totally agree with you. I've been with GI independent from IS for years before IS was a wet dream. GI has always paid this way so it's really not a big deal. The only sh!tty part is if you are not in a US tax treaty country, but that is the IRS doings not GI.
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It doesn't really affect me either. However, it's unfair to the people who count on monthly payments to pay their bills and will now have a delayed January payment. Also, Getty is holding on to mucho dinero each month for as long as possible, undoubtedly investing it and making a nice return on what is actually other people's money.
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I also agree that any relation to any IPO makes not that much sense. Accounting related the royalties are still due payments, they are not added to their profit margin. And based on the last numbers we know, we are probably talking about $10 millon payouts delayed by a month, given the current interest rates, we are talking about less than $20,000 a month that could be earned in interests.
It is likely that they are going to make more savings from removing the additional acccounting and tax departments they had to keep running in Calgary. And that's what I think is the most important reason for the change.
Roughly 10 million a month, held in a 30 day investment vehicle (for example a Bank of Montreal short term investment certificate) that has a 0.600% rate can earn them $60,000 in a month. For one year that's roughly $720,000 in free money. And if you can invest up to 10mil a month you can get a better rate than that. What that gives Getty is "float", basically making money from other peoples money. It's how Buffett made billions from people's insurance premiums.
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I also agree that any relation to any IPO makes not that much sense. Accounting related the royalties are still due payments, they are not added to their profit margin. And based on the last numbers we know, we are probably talking about $10 millon payouts delayed by a month, given the current interest rates, we are talking about less than $20,000 a month that could be earned in interests.
It is likely that they are going to make more savings from removing the additional acccounting and tax departments they had to keep running in Calgary. And that's what I think is the most important reason for the change.
Roughly 10 million a month, held in a 30 day investment vehicle (for example a Bank of Montreal short term investment certificate) that has a 0.600% rate can earn them $60,000 in a month. For one year that's roughly $720,000 in free money. And if you can invest up to 10mil a month you can get a better rate than that. What that gives Getty is "float", basically making money from other peoples money. It's how Buffett made billions from people's insurance premiums.
Getty Mafia. >:(
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Roughly 10 million a month, held in a 30 day investment vehicle (for example a Bank of Montreal short term investment certificate) that has a 0.600% rate can earn them $60,000 in a month. For one year that's roughly $720,000 in free money. And if you can invest up to 10mil a month you can get a better rate than that. What that gives Getty is "float", basically making money from other peoples money. It's how Buffett made billions from people's insurance premiums.
Obviously you are lacking understanding of how interest rates work. No bank is paying 7.2% annual interest rates at the current market. The 0.6% you are talking about is the annual rate. You would receive 1/12th of that for a single month, equalling $5,000 not the $60k
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Agree, the amount they make on interest is negligible, it's more about cutting costs by having one accounting dept.
The more interesting thing that's going on is that the Calgary office is being stripped back more and more and if it will even still be there in a couple of years time and what this means for iS and the exclusivity programme over the next couple of years.
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Typically firms do not invest the money they hold by extending accounts payable in investment instruments, but use the money as working capital to fund business operations where the return on investment is much higher than a short term instrument, (they hope) the idea being that you can earn more from funding business operations than a static rate of return from the bank.
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Getty is holding on to mucho dinero each month for as long as possible, undoubtedly investing it and making a nice return on what is actually other people's money.
Do you mean like every microstock agency has done since I can remember with the minimum payout of $100? Or do you just need to be anti IS and anti GI with every breath? Think about it for a moment SS requires you to sell 401 images (at the entry level) to get your minimum payout and you support that without complaining? Just sayin.
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Roughly 10 million a month, held in a 30 day investment vehicle (for example a Bank of Montreal short term investment certificate) that has a 0.600% rate can earn them $60,000 in a month. For one year that's roughly $720,000 in free money. And if you can invest up to 10mil a month you can get a better rate than that. What that gives Getty is "float", basically making money from other peoples money. It's how Buffett made billions from people's insurance premiums.
Obviously you are lacking understanding of how interest rates work. No bank is paying 7.2% annual interest rates at the current market. The 0.6% you are talking about is the annual rate. You would receive 1/12th of that for a single month, equalling $5,000 not the $60k
me thinks there is a lat of lacking in understanding in general on MSG.
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Getty is holding on to mucho dinero each month for as long as possible, undoubtedly investing it and making a nice return on what is actually other people's money.
Do you mean like every microstock agency has done since I can remember with the minimum payout of $100? Or do you just need to be anti IS and anti GI with every breath? Think about it for a moment SS requires you to sell 401 images (at the entry level) to get your minimum payout and you support that without complaining? Just sayin.
I understand the minimum payout, because it would be cost prohibitive for each agency to pay out tiny amounts every day to contributors. But what excuse does iS have for making people wait more than a month to see their sales? And then another month to be paid? All the other agencies are capable of reporting in real time.
I'm not anti iS...I have a port there, after all. But it would be great if they could catch up to current technology and offer the same reporting and payments their competitors do. It would also be great if they could get their acts together and increase sales...that means more money for me. Just because people complain doesn't mean they hate the place...it could mean they'd like them to do better. Just sayin.
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Getty is holding on to mucho dinero each month for as long as possible, undoubtedly investing it and making a nice return on what is actually other people's money.
Do you mean like every microstock agency has done since I can remember with the minimum payout of $100? Or do you just need to be anti IS and anti GI with every breath? Think about it for a moment SS requires you to sell 401 images (at the entry level) to get your minimum payout and you support that without complaining? Just sayin.
Just for information it's 300 -minimum payout is $75. And that assumes you only ever get basic sub sales -never mind the higher paying On Demand/ELs/ Single downloads. So, in reality, way less than 300. Regards, David.
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The truth is you can reach payout with one good sale on Shutterstock now.
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Getty is holding on to mucho dinero each month for as long as possible, undoubtedly investing it and making a nice return on what is actually other people's money.
Do you mean like every microstock agency has done since I can remember with the minimum payout of $100? Or do you just need to be anti IS and anti GI with every breath? Think about it for a moment SS requires you to sell 401 images (at the entry level) to get your minimum payout and you support that without complaining? Just sayin.
Just for information it's 300 -minimum payout is $75. And that assumes you only ever get basic sub sales -never mind the higher paying On Demand/ELs/ Single downloads. So, in reality, way less than 300. Regards, David.
yes, as pointed out by shelma, it only takes one good sale to reach payout with ss.
in fact, in spite of many who think i am anti-ss due to the change in transparency,etc
it is not difficult to reach monthly payout with ss.
although if they do not play around with the flipping swith, the payout would be a lot more as before they started flipping switches.
still, no one with a good port will ever see more than two month for a payout with ss.
at best, u get a payout each month.
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Without going into arguments about what they might do and how accounting works, it's illegal for them to invest our earnings that are being held. At that point it's a dead issue? So yes, that's why they typically don't invest, you are correct.
Part two, if someone makes $X a month and it's the same every month and delayed, we are still making $X a month. So the argument that some people are making about how it's a matter of "need" for faster payments, is weak.
I work, the pay period ends on a Wed. the check is mailed on the next Wed. So what's that, Three Weeks? Yikes, I have bills to pay. I want my money and I want it now. ???
I work straight commission, sales. I take an order, it's delivered from the factory, which takes a minimum of two weeks, the customer pays, which is typically 30 days and longer, many pay on the last day before default, so I get my commission check the following month on the 15th. That can be 45 days to customer payment and 2-3 months before I get my cut. That's business and manufacturing sales, not Downloads.
SS reports and pays fastest of anyone in this business. Feel free to correct me? Alamy reports fast, pays when they get paid, it's the slowest and least comforting way to trust clients to pay? I'd rather have pay as you download. That leaves IS which doesn't even report for up to 45 days later! Then takes two weeks to pay, at best?
If IS can start daily reporting along with the monthly plan, they will be right in line with the standards of the Microstock Industry. If not, they will be the slowest except for the leakers and crooks.
Typically firms do not invest the money they hold by extending accounts payable in investment instruments, but use the money as working capital to fund business operations where the return on investment is much higher than a short term instrument, (they hope) the idea being that you can earn more from funding business operations than a static rate of return from the bank.
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"Week in hand" or "Month in hand" is a common way of being paid wages/salary in the UK. In other words when you start you work two weeks / months before getting paid. It gives a lot of people trouble. As Uncle Pete says, many "business to business" type dealings with industry are going to be paid at the end of the next month too. I used to make bespoke furniture. Although I used to take deposits, it could be several weeks of work before I saw payment.
Such is life, and as Pete says as long as you are actually making the money, that is the main thing. You obviously want the money, but when you get it isn't always as soon as you'd like in the real world.
I don't really like having things changed, it was handy being able to get weekly payments in some ways, but if that's how Getty pays out then that's how we'll get our money in the future.
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I don't really like having things changed, it was handy being able to get weekly payments in some ways, but if that's how Getty pays out then that's how we'll get our money in the future.
Before it was weekly, it was whenever we wanted provided the balance was over $100. I used to sometimes cash out a few times every week during busy periods. In late 2008 I got a friendly message from them (back when they did friendly) asking (not telling) me to make slightly fewer requests. I had made 12 payout requests in just over one month. Happy days.
I long ago switched to only cashing out once a month because it was easier to do my tax return that way. If they decide to make it quarterly there would be nothing that the contributors could actually do about it.
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Reading the Nov sales thread over there, the question of how often we get payouts may be moot for many of us in a year or two anyway.
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I remember it well bunhill. I used to do the same, then went over to monthly payments, and then back to weekly payments on the basis that I might as well have it myself as let them keep it for me.
As you rightly say whenever they make the payments is entirely up to them. Nothing we can do apart from accept the "agreement"
I agree with you Liz. Income is still on the slide, so much so that I have had to give my weekly payments a few misses over recent months. Having the income to get a payout is more important than when the payout is. At least within reason.
The last few months of the year have always been a bit slow for me, and I'm hoping for at least some pick up in sales at the start of next year.
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The last few months of the year have always been a bit slow for me, and I'm hoping for at least some pick up in sales at the start of next year.
I am expecting to see a further decline in sales - and a decline in income as subs become the norm. I would also expect to see further price cutting in an attempt to win back market share in a declining market.
One thing at a time, they are simplifying the model. Therefore I doubt that the exclusivity program will survive much longer since it adds complication. I hope I am wrong but we are not hearing any positive messages of encouragement. I think the day will come when they realise that they can charge more for certain content without the need to pay more for it.
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I did say hoping for a pick up! :)
I'm afraid that the reality may well be as you say.
I agree with the rest of what you say though. Now iStock is essentially Getty, they must surely be looking at a flat 20% rate. They don't, AFAIK, have exclusivity at Getty, and that apparently works OK for them. To be honest I've thought for some time that exclusivity possibly has more benefits for the contributor than for the agency. So we can guess where the thinking would go on that.
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Now iStock is essentially Getty, they must surely be looking at a flat 20% rate.
I love your optimism :)
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In 2012 Getty had 80M images, I estimate them now to have 105M images, and now they added the Istock collection of roughly 15M images. Growing their library by 14% overnight to 120M images.
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Now iStock is essentially Getty, they must surely be looking at a flat 20% rate.
I love your optimism :)
Dammit! I've been caught doing that optimism thing again! :)
I was told it could send you blind. or was that something else. . . :)
I'll get kicked out of the Grumpy Old Cynics Club if I carry on like this.
Not really though, when I was typing I thought "If we're lucky"
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The last few months of the year have always been a bit slow for me, and I'm hoping for at least some pick up in sales at the start of next year.
November has always been my best month, but even 2 ELs couldn't raise last month's $$ for credit sales above 4th bottom. Well under half what I earned in Nov 2008. So I really don't see any reason for optimism for my port.
However, I was shown that iS exclusive (and SS) poll figures here seem to have shot up, so some must be doing well.
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The last few months of the year have always been a bit slow for me, and I'm hoping for at least some pick up in sales at the start of next year.
November has always been my best month, but even 2 ELs couldn't raise last month's $$ for credit sales above 4th bottom. Well under half what I earned in Nov 2008. So I really don't see any reason for optimism for my port.
However, I was shown that iS exclusive (and SS) poll figures here seem to have shot up, so some must be doing well.
It's not any (or at least many) of the exclusives I can see in the monthly thread over there. [size=78%] [/size]
As I said there my overall income for this calendar year is looking to be about a third down. A fair bit of money.
There are of course no easy answers from our side of the fence.
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Which will be a raise for me. 8)
As for the rest, you mean they didn't collect taxes before? How did they get away with that for so long? Yes Canada but owned by a USA Corp.
I'm not sure if automated payments make any difference to me? I can see how others wouldn't like that.
Does this mean IS images will be sold on Getty as a collection?
I predict this is just the cloud coming in from the distant horizon, before the storm of changes and more changes.
First step to your %20 flat rate.
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As for the rest, you mean they didn't collect taxes before? How did they get away with that for so long? Yes Canada but owned by a USA Corp.
Apparently they were counted as a Canadian entity for tax purposes.
So e.g. I simply pay tax here, without having had to fill out any US forms etc.
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As for the rest, you mean they didn't collect taxes before? How did they get away with that for so long? Yes Canada but owned by a USA Corp.
How do Apple, Google, Starbucks and many others get away with making profits all around the world without paying taxes on those? They only pay taxes to the IRS for profits they actually made within the US.
Does this mean IS images will be sold on Getty as a collection?
No. Not soon at least. That would mean that Getty would have to deal directly with a) an active contributor community and b) small and medium customers. They showed enough disdain for both of these groups in the past, so I believe it is unlikely they want to take over those tasks anytime soon. Getty prefers to make business with businesses (corporate media and advertising agencies as customers, other agencies and image factories as producers). They never showed any understanding of this "crowd thing".
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That would mean that Getty would have to deal directly with a) an active contributor community and b) small and medium customers. They showed enough disdain for both of these groups in the past, so I believe it is unlikely they want to take over those tasks anytime soon. Getty prefers to make business with businesses (corporate media and advertising agencies as customers, other agencies and image factories as producers). They never showed any understanding of this "crowd thing".
Unwashed peasants is the term they use I believe.
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many others get away with making profits all around the world without paying taxes on those? They only pay taxes to the IRS for profits they actually made within the US.
When Shutterstock announced their quarterly results in November, one of the issues which they specifically talked about was the relatively high level of taxes that they are currently paying despite, they said, 70% of their business being done outside of the US. This is something which investors have commented on previously.
I wondered at the time whether that implied that they were looking at relocating some of the business outside of the US. Or can anyone here think of any other ways in which they could reduce their tax liability whist remaining solely based in the US ?
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How do Apple, Google, Starbucks and many others get away with making profits all around the world without paying taxes on those? They only pay taxes to the IRS for profits they actually made within the US.
Irish Dutch sandwich, or something like that.
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many others get away with making profits all around the world without paying taxes on those? They only pay taxes to the IRS for profits they actually made within the US.
When Shutterstock announced their quarterly results in November, one of the issues which they specifically talked about was the relatively high level of taxes that they are currently paying despite, they said, 70% of their business being done outside of the US. This is something which investors have commented on previously.
I wondered at the time whether that implied that they were looking at relocating some of the business outside of the US. Or can anyone here think of any other ways in which they could reduce their tax liability whist remaining solely based in the US ?
Yes. And investors at Apple are complaining that the company is sitting on a huge amount of cash they can not bring back into the US because then it would become taxable... Even as a corporation, apparently you can't have it all and make everyone happy. ;)
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Has nobody mentioned this? Do Getty insist on non-US residents getting an ITIN number? A few sites have insisted on that, most of them have found a way around it. If they insist on it, I think it will be time to remove my portfolio. I'm against it on principle, why should I have to get an Individual Tax Identification Number for a country where I don't live and don't have to pay tax? It looks like a load of unnecessary hassle and expense that other sites have managed to circumvent.
If they do insist on the ITIN number, I could pay the US tax but I'm not doing that, I would rather sell my work elsewhere.
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Has nobody mentioned this? Do Getty insist on non-US residents getting an ITIN number? A few sites have insisted on that, most of them have found a way around it. If they insist on it, I think it will be time to remove my portfolio. I'm against it on principle, why should I have to get an Individual Tax Identification Number for a country where I don't live and don't have to pay tax? It looks like a load of unnecessary hassle and expense that other sites have managed to circumvent.
If they do insist on the ITIN number, I could pay the US tax but I'm not doing that, I would rather sell my work elsewhere.
No, they don't. And it's not that "some have found a way around it", the IRS has changed some requirements over the past few years. In 2009/2010 when lots of iStockers were invited to submit directly to Getty, it was mentioned very often that an ITIN was required to avoid withholding tax. When I got a Getty contract through Flickr in 2012, it was already moved to an electronic W8-BEN solution that does not ask for an American tax number. I don't have an ITIN, never had one but I still do not pay any withholding tax on any agency.
However, this does not apply to everyone. It depends on the specifics of the treaty between the US and your home country. Some people will be required to get an ITIN number, others do not need to. But that seems not to be a decision made by Getty/iStock but by the IRS based on the tax treaties. (for what it's worth, I am based in Germany, so that's all I can talk about in this regard)
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I know several sites like SS and FT initially insisted on us getting an ITIN number but changed their minds when they realised that many of us would rather leave than get one.
I just told Saatchi Art to close my account, don't see any reason for a UK citizen to get an ITIN number or pay withholding tax when most other sites don't ask for it.
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However, this does not apply to everyone. It depends on the specifics of the treaty between the US and your home country. Some people will be required to get an ITIN number, others do not need to. But that seems not to be a decision made by Getty/iStock but by the IRS based on the tax treaties. (for what it's worth, I am based in Germany, so that's all I can talk about in this regard)
I think but may be wrong that some aspects of the technicalities have been even further simplified by the US:
I believe that the issue with respect to whether or not you need a US tax reference code depends upon whether or not your home (tax residency jurisdiction) issues you with a unique tax code which is recognized internationally by the IRS as a TIN (tax identifier number).
I believe that those people in countries which do not issue a recognised TIN may today need a US EIN (employer identifier number) rather than the old ITIN. This would apply to people in countries with a tax treaty.
According to Lobo at the iStock forum, those of us in non-treaty countries should be able to complete the tax interview without needing a TIN or equivalent US code. Completing the tax interview should then mean that we will only be taxed on US sales.
Amazon via Google has a certain amount of usefully up to date and pertinent information about the tax interview and withholding taxes - since this also relates to people selling Kindle content. The Amazon documentation goes some way to explaining the thinking behind the tax interview process.
One thing I now understand as a result of reading more is that from the IRS perspective there are two aspects to this: yes - on the one hand they may want to know whether we are in a treaty country and if so which one. On the other hand the interview is also about them determining whether we are US citizens (including US citizens abroad) ... and therefore US tax payers. One aspect of the interview as it applies to non-US citizens is for us to demonstrate that we are not US citizens perhaps living abroad. The 'interview' is as much about that as anything else.
@Sharpshot: surely it makes sense for all of us to complete the tax interview and minimise our US tax liabilities. As Lobo has pointed out - even people in non treaty countries will then only be taxed on US sales. Also - do UK citizens even need to get a ITIN EIN ? Isn't the UK issued 10 digit UTR going to be enough (and if not is it really such an issue having to get an EIN ?)
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I think but may be wrong that some aspects of the technicalities have been even further simplified by the US:
I believe that the issue with respect to whether or not you need a US tax reference code depends upon whether or not your home (tax residency jurisdiction) issues you with a unique tax code which is recognized internationally by the IRS as a TIN (tax identifier number).
I believe that those people in countries which do not issue a recognised TIN may today need a US EIN (employer identifier number) rather than the old ITIN. This would apply to people in countries with a tax treaty.
That's what I understand as well, but it's weird anyway: all other agencies are NOT requiring a local TIN, and that field can simply be left blank.
One of them must be wrong, and I'd rather avoid dubious situations regarding taxes.
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Someone mentioned Saatchi. Perhaps they were structured a bit differently... I earn royalties at SS, I am from Canada so they are tax exempt. Perhaps Saatchi has it setup that Saatchi takes a commission from your earnings - therefore, I do believe U.S. sales may be taxable - even with a tax treaty.
And when I still worked in the corporate world 10+ years ago (maybe it's changed) whenever we opened up a U.S. business it was registered in the State of Delaware because the taxes were considerably lower. Maybe SS should move their head office to a mail box in Delaware if they are complaining about New York taxes!
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Maybe SS should move their head office to a mail box in Delaware if they are complaining about New York taxes!
Or Alberta maybe. Calgary for example has a combined corporate rate of appx 25% - it's known for its business friendly, low drag, 21st century approach to competitive corporate taxation.
:-)
I cannot think of any reason why an online company would be in New York - apart from Wall St etc
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Am I hearing some screwing happening?
Ah no... It is multiple screwing:
1. Canada lost tax income.
2. Some Contributors lost money due to withholding taxes.
3. All Contributors have delayed payments.
4. No Skrill means for some that their money coming on more expensive way via Payoneer.
4a. Contributors lost their Skrill paying buyers.
All in all - not so bad to have such new terms... Who cares? I don't. I am not even with GI or iStock due to known UNSUSTAINABILITY with them!
Ah... One more thing: When this screwing gains momentum then there will be more screwing after this...
Cheers S U C K E R S!
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Maybe SS should move their head office to a mail box in Delaware if they are complaining about New York taxes!
Or Alberta maybe. Calgary for example has a combined corporate rate of appx 25% - it's known for its business friendly, low drag, 21st century approach to competitive corporate taxation.
:-)
I cannot think of any reason why an online company would be in New York - apart from Wall St etc
That is something what will never happen. Most of SS holders are financial capitalist groups. They don't like to do such things as paying taxes to other countries. For such people Paying taxes means directing state policies. And, those with US passports can not direct Canadian government what to do!
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...@Sharpshot: surely it makes sense for all of us to complete the tax interview and minimise our US tax liabilities. As Lobo has pointed out - even people in non treaty countries will then only be taxed on US sales. Also - do UK citizens even need to get a ITIN EIN ? Isn't the UK issued 10 digit UTR going to be enough (and if not is it really such an issue having to get an EIN ?)
No idea about an EIN but when I looked in to it before, the ITIN is going to cost money and take time. I refuse to get one and I don't want to pay withholding tax, so the only option is to leave sites that insist on it. Hopefully istock will be like the other big sites and it wont be required.
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...@Sharpshot: surely it makes sense for all of us to complete the tax interview and minimise our US tax liabilities. As Lobo has pointed out - even people in non treaty countries will then only be taxed on US sales. Also - do UK citizens even need to get a ITIN EIN ? Isn't the UK issued 10 digit UTR going to be enough (and if not is it really such an issue having to get an EIN ?)
No idea about an EIN but when I looked in to it before, the ITIN is going to cost money and take time. I refuse to get one and I don't want to pay withholding tax, so the only option is to leave sites that insist on it. Hopefully istock will be like the other big sites and it wont be required.
From what's been said over there, the UK UTR will be enough. Getty is following US tax regulations, but some countries like the UK have reciprocal agreements.
Try here and the other FAQs. http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&messageid=7066105#post7066105 (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=364057&messageid=7066105#post7066105)
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How do Apple, Google, Starbucks and many others get away with making profits all around the world without paying taxes on those? They only pay taxes to the IRS for profits they actually made within the US.
considering their net gain margin is 10-20% with peaks of 25-30% on a good quarter they couldn't stay in business if they were to pay the same taxation as anyone else.
actually this is true for a good part of the whole US economy, most of the Nasdaq listed companies would go bankrupt if they were based in mainland Europe where taxation can be up to 40%.
same goes for so many asian enterprised that use any possible legal loophole to end up being based in tax havens like HongKong and Singapore, without HK and SG it would be game over for all these companies barely making 10% profits and this is the standards in many areas of consumer electronics for instance, there's an obvious reason why cheap stuff is produced in china and not in germany while Leica or Hasselblad and Phase One are still based in very expensive countries as they net margin is high and they can afford it, i mean selling a 8000$ Leica M-9 or a 10000$ Noctilux lens you don't care if taxes are 40% you still make fat profits.
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taxation is high everywhere because it's a tool to control population, without taxation everyone could just work hard for 10-15 yrs and retire at 35 and this is not what capitalism is designed for, we're meant to be enslaved and squeezed like a lemon, not to enjoy the fruits of our work, in the eyes of the lawmakers we're a resource to be exploited and not human beings.
modern capitalism is nothing more than the natural evolution of piracy and feudalism.
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I've got a few images with iStock (very few) and $95 on account, but I didn't get the email. I wonder how many iStock contributors have not been notified of this change.
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Has nobody mentioned this? Do Getty insist on non-US residents getting an ITIN number? A few sites have insisted on that, most of them have found a way around it. If they insist on it, I think it will be time to remove my portfolio. I'm against it on principle, why should I have to get an Individual Tax Identification Number for a country where I don't live and don't have to pay tax? It looks like a load of unnecessary hassle and expense that other sites have managed to circumvent.
If they do insist on the ITIN number, I could pay the US tax but I'm not doing that, I would rather sell my work elsewhere.
No, they don't. And it's not that "some have found a way around it", the IRS has changed some requirements over the past few years. In 2009/2010 when lots of iStockers were invited to submit directly to Getty, it was mentioned very often that an ITIN was required to avoid withholding tax. When I got a Getty contract through Flickr in 2012, it was already moved to an electronic W8-BEN solution that does not ask for an American tax number. I don't have an ITIN, never had one but I still do not pay any withholding tax on any agency.
However, this does not apply to everyone. It depends on the specifics of the treaty between the US and your home country. Some people will be required to get an ITIN number, others do not need to. But that seems not to be a decision made by Getty/iStock but by the IRS based on the tax treaties. (for what it's worth, I am based in Germany, so that's all I can talk about in this regard)
that is not quite correct there are two legal statuses some belongs to Getty International some belongs to Getty US. Flickr/Moment is Getty International therefore you don't need an ITIN Getty House collections are still Getty US therefore you still need an ITIN if you submit via a Getty House contract.
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It seems I will finally start taking the step I have been postponing: leave the microstock sites.
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I've got a few images with iStock (very few) and $95 on account, but I didn't get the email. I wonder how many iStock contributors have not been notified of this change.
Maybe your spam filter knows better and decided you are better off with out the email.
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I've got a few images with iStock (very few) and $95 on account, but I didn't get the email. I wonder how many iStock contributors have not been notified of this change.
Maybe your spam filter knows better and decided you are better off with out the email.
I can't speak for Pickerell, but I don't have a spam filter. I've received other emails from istock since that one, but I didn't get the tax email.
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Forget... ;)