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Author Topic: iStock ELs not paying properly?  (Read 41574 times)

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« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2010, 19:45 »
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I read your post - didn't realize it had been deleted. I don't think it was rude or way out of line - but then a post of mine got deleted a week or so ago that seemed relatively mild and polite. I don't honestly know if there's any guideline beyond the moderator felt that it should go as to what gets zapped.

I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think it's unworkable to get such a large, multi-national group of independent contributors to act in unison.

 It's especially hard when the big earners aren't part of it (and they've never been behind any of the grass roots campaigns that have occurred in the past). I think (but don't have any knowledge of what actually goes on) that they may feel they're big enough that they're better off negotiating for themselves.

If you think about how many big newspapers work, they hire an ombudsman to look out for reader interests and concerns. My guess is that they do this as a way to stave off more regulation - they can point to this as evidence that they aren't biased and one sided. Not much chance of IS doing that unless they were faced with some sort of scrutiny they didn't want from Canadian regulators of some type.

I don't think it's the cost per contributor but coming to a decision on what to advocate for. I have said before it would be like trying to herd cats - I wouldn't want to do it.

I think we need to push IS for transparency - they need to give us more data on what they do. There are so many of us it is really hard to sneak things by us - given we have a forum here to compare notes where IS management can't delete posts. If we have downloadable data we can use code or spreadsheets to track things so that changes or anomalies get caught more readily.


« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2010, 20:26 »
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What incentive or reason would IS have for having any such position?

« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2010, 20:54 »
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What incentive or reason would IS have for having any such position?

Indeed - why would they - nor why should they. They are running a business with their ultimate obligations being to the owners - taking care of contributors is only a good strategy but nothing more - it is not required (assuming fo course their conduct is legal) and it makes zero business sense.

« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2010, 23:49 »
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I'm not suggesting that IS create this position. I'm saying that we contributors demand this advocate. It may be difficult, if not impossible, to have a consensus of international scope but it's not such a novel idea. Maybe you haven't been reading the IS forums or you might be concerned...or are you a contributor? An advocate is an ideal way of keeping IS legal....and they wouldn't pay this person, we would. We would need to be unionized....wow.

« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2010, 02:01 »
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I'm not suggesting that IS create this position. I'm saying that we contributors demand this advocate. It may be difficult, if not impossible, to have a consensus of international scope but it's not such a novel idea. Maybe you haven't been reading the IS forums or you might be concerned...or are you a contributor? An advocate is an ideal way of keeping IS legal....and they wouldn't pay this person, we would. We would need to be unionized....wow.
I think it would be nice - sure - but so many of the contributors on IS are so woo yay they still believe that IS takes care of them for purely altruistic reasons - in those nuts' minds - and there seems to many of them - IS is their ombudsmen ...

« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2010, 04:20 »
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Having some sort of advocate a nice idea, but it wouldn't work for a multitude of reasons. Apart from those given already, who is to say that iStock would even talk to such an advocate? At best you would probably end up paying to receive the same information that you get now.

 "Unions" ( to use the term loosely) only really work when the vast majority of people are involved. Otherwise you end up with no negotiating power.

Strange that post was deleted though. Was some nerve struck there , or was it just because it was running a bit OT.

« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2010, 07:33 »
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I'm not suggesting that IS create this position. I'm saying that we contributors demand this advocate. It may be difficult, if not impossible, to have a consensus of international scope but it's not such a novel idea. Maybe you haven't been reading the IS forums or you might be concerned...or are you a contributor? An advocate is an ideal way of keeping IS legal....and they wouldn't pay this person, we would. We would need to be unionized....wow.

You're right.  I haven't been reading the IS forums.  Maybe I should start.

As I said, why would IS even consider interacting with such a person?  You can demand all you want.

« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2010, 09:18 »
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The only reason IS would consider talking or working with an advocate is because they can't live without us contributors. This used to be a piddling industry, 20 years ago there was no "microstock." Now it's become a multi-million dollar (billions?) corporate operation. Is this a case of the fox watching the henhouse? It's just an idea....I found Lobo offensive.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2010, 11:24 »
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It would be wonderful if there was a union or advocate for our interest but the people on this forum are a very small fraction of the total of contributors on iStock. With the large amount on there, if all the "union" members would leave because their demands weren't met, it wouldn't be any skin off their backs. There are plenty more to replace them.

« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2010, 12:22 »
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You're right.  I haven't been reading the IS forums.  Maybe I should start....


Very droll - if your sense of humor gets any drier it will morph into a sense of humour :)

@keithpix: As far as the microstock sites being unable to exist without contributors, that's absolutely the case. The vast majority of the content is contributor owned and can walk at any time. Some sites don't let you delete your own files, some make you wait and some just make it really hard to do.

There are a couple of things that get the attention of microstock sites, and unless a union (or ombudsman or whatever) can control those, they're powerless. For subscription sites, cutting the flow of new uploads matters a lot as existing subscribers want to see new stuff each month. For all sites, removing large numbers of files matters - empty shelves are as bad for the sites as no buyers.

For those of us making regular income each month - and especially for those supporting themselves and/or their families on this income (and that's not me; I just know of some) - removing portfolios is not a trivial thing and the sites know it. It's easier to go back to work after a strike than upload a portfolio of multiple thousands of images after you deleted it (upload limits as well as the work involved). The sites know this too.

The problem that a union can't solve is how to wield the power we have without shooting ourselves in the head in the process.

It's easy to rein in a smaller, newer badly-behaved micro site (assuming you're independent and submit to multiple sites) because pulling all your files is a pretty real threat and they know it. When one of the big sites pulls anti-contributor moves  - and FT, DT and IS have all changed royalty rates in their own favor; SS has done that with less fuss as the rate was never publicized so when they increase the prices of some ELs and didn't change contributor compensation it wasn't seen as a cash grab - it's much harder. People don't want to lose 25%+ of their monthly income.

Also, it's not the number of contributors taking action that matters but the number of files, particularly best selling files. That's a very small portion of the contributor pool. Without a good number of those contributors in whatever union, there'd be no real bargaining.

Unpleasant realities maybe, but realities nevertheless IMO.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2010, 12:25 »
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The only reason IS would consider talking or working with an advocate is because they can't live without us contributors. This used to be a piddling industry, 20 years ago there was no "microstock." Now it's become a multi-million dollar (billions?) corporate operation. Is this a case of the fox watching the henhouse? It's just an idea....I found Lobo offensive.
You'll notice that apart from Sean and LisaFX, most of the big hitters don't hang about here, nor do they frequent the forums. Most of those of us who do are very little fish, even if we all joined together.
And, as Donding says, there are plenty people snapping at our heels.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 14:01 by ShadySue »

« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2010, 13:22 »
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Another point is that none of the agencies are obliged to sell content for anyone. My guess is that although the separate agencies are in competition, if you made yourself enough of a pain you'd find none would deal with you.

The whole business of unions and unionisation is (in the UK at least) a whole lot more complicated than just all getting together to make the bosses see sense.

« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2010, 15:32 »
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Unions wont work with this business model. Unless u get 100% of contributors willing to yank out their files or disable them, there will always be people that benefit greatly now that their buried file on page 100 appears on page 1. Currently, this crowd sourcing model has too much supply for the demand. I really dont get why some contributors celebrate 10 million files or 20. less piece of the pie for all

lisafx

« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2010, 07:41 »
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You're right.  I haven't been reading the IS forums.  Maybe I should start....


Very droll - if your sense of humor gets any drier it will morph into a sense of humour :)

^^LOL!!  What a clever line!  :D

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2010, 14:08 »
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I read your post - didn't realize it had been deleted. I don't think it was rude or way out of line - but then a post of mine got deleted a week or so ago that seemed relatively mild and polite. I don't honestly know if there's any guideline beyond the moderator felt that it should go as to what gets zapped.

Ha ha! I'm banned from the forums. I think I have to sit in a corner, meditate on my sins and drink copious amounts of Koolaid.

« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2010, 18:06 »
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I read your post - didn't realize it had been deleted. I don't think it was rude or way out of line - but then a post of mine got deleted a week or so ago that seemed relatively mild and polite. I don't honestly know if there's any guideline beyond the moderator felt that it should go as to what gets zapped.

Ha ha! I'm banned from the forums. I think I have to sit in a corner, meditate on my sins and drink copious amounts of Koolaid.

What? You got banned? Effin' unbelievable. It gets more ridiculous as the days go by.

« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2010, 18:27 »
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I read your post - didn't realize it had been deleted. I don't think it was rude or way out of line - but then a post of mine got deleted a week or so ago that seemed relatively mild and polite. I don't honestly know if there's any guideline beyond the moderator felt that it should go as to what gets zapped.

Ha ha! I'm banned from the forums. I think I have to sit in a corner, meditate on my sins and drink copious amounts of Koolaid.

They banned you too? Wow. It is freakin crazy over there.

« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2010, 18:42 »
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I read your post - didn't realize it had been deleted. I don't think it was rude or way out of line - but then a post of mine got deleted a week or so ago that seemed relatively mild and polite. I don't honestly know if there's any guideline beyond the moderator felt that it should go as to what gets zapped.

Ha ha! I'm banned from the forums. I think I have to sit in a corner, meditate on my sins and drink copious amounts of Koolaid.

They banned you too? Wow. It is freakin crazy over there.

Were you banned as well cclapper?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2010, 20:08 »
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With the circumstances are they are at the moment at iStock, being banned seems like a Badge of Honour. It reminds me of that story of Thoreau, who was put in prison for refusing to pay what he saw as an unjust Poll Tax. His friend, Ralph Waldo Emerson went to visit him in prison and asked, Henry, what are you doing in there? Thoreau replied, Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?

« Reply #119 on: November 15, 2010, 07:34 »
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Were you banned as well cclapper?

Not that I know of. I have only posted a few times about this whole debacle. The wooyaying and koolaid syndrome nauseates me, can't take too much of it. But it wouldn't surprise me, since I only ever DO post when something goes wrong. I have never been much of a wooyayer. I've posted comments about being a buyer and contributor, and I get dismissed for being a buyer because I am also a contributor. One way or another, a major player jumps in and discounts my comments somehow, as though I have no right to be there, and frankly, I think it's a total waste of time to be there anyway. So I am happy to oblige them all.  ;)

rubyroo

« Reply #120 on: November 15, 2010, 10:12 »
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The wooyaying and koolaid syndrome nauseates me, can't take too much of it.

Ditto

« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2010, 17:19 »
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The wooyaying and koolaid syndrome nauseates me, can't take too much of it.

Ditto
Double ditto.  and.. just to vent, because I can here -- the double-standard of being able to have a "woo yay" thread all to yourself while others (mostly newbies) are shunned to the colossal woo-yay thread of the quarter (or season or whatever), annoys me as well.  If you're going to have a rule that all "woo-yays" belong in one thread, then stick to it.  - okay, vent over.

« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2010, 10:54 »
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Were you banned as well cclapper?

Apparently I have not been banned from the forums, as I was able to post one this morning. But I expect that thread will be locked very soon.

I took a payout on Sun. am and it left $.17 in my account. Today, I still have $.17 in my account. Either sales are not being reported correctly or my wooyaying-nauseating comment in another thread here has offended the mighty gods and they decided to punish me with no sales, because 2 days with NO downloads has not happened to me since I first started uploading a few years ago! I checked my most downloaded images and they are still showing in the best match as they did before.

« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2010, 10:59 »
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Were you banned as well cclapper?

Apparently I have not been banned from the forums, as I was able to post one this morning. But I expect that thread will be locked very soon.

I took a payout on Sun. am and it left $.17 in my account. Today, I still have $.17 in my account. Either sales are not being reported correctly or my wooyaying-nauseating comment in another thread here has offended the mighty gods and they decided to punish me with no sales, because 2 days with NO downloads has not happened to me since I first started uploading a few years ago! I checked my most downloaded images and they are still showing in the best match as they did before.

November sales (one of amazing last four mouths) are total crap, at least for me.

lisafx

« Reply #124 on: November 16, 2010, 11:40 »
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I took a payout on Sun. am and it left $.17 in my account. Today, I still have $.17 in my account. Either sales are not being reported correctly or my wooyaying-nauseating comment in another thread here has offended the mighty gods and they decided to punish me with no sales, because 2 days with NO downloads has not happened to me since I first started uploading a few years ago! I checked my most downloaded images and they are still showing in the best match as they did before.

November sales (one of amazing last four mouths) are total crap, at least for me.

Yes, my November sales on Istock are pretty bad too.  But in Cathy's case, with NO sales on a weekday (Monday) that sounds more like some sort of site glitch.  Not that Istock ever has those...  ::)


 

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