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Author Topic: Kelly announces slightly downsized RC targets  (Read 49500 times)

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« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2011, 22:26 »
0
I keep hearing all of the analysts saying having your own site is the way to go. "The future". I'm not buying it unless some new innovative method is developed for connecting buyers with contributors. In my experience, all of the people who have contacted me directly want freebies. Buyers use stock agencies. Freebie hunters use Flickr and Google. There are exceptions of course but it's rare. Every once in a while you hear about someone on Flickr making a sale.

Why would anyone want to do stock as a hobby? Flickr is a hobby. Stock is a business. But it seems to be turning into a "supplemental income" business. Commission cuts, competition, oversupply, economy, and hitting the growth wall all seem to be slamming contributors pretty hard right now.

If you build it, they will come. Kidding (sort of). If you have a site that has content and is relatively search engine friendly, people will find it. My site has only been open a few months, and guess who is leading the pack this month? ME!

I can't say this will last or improve or that other people will have the same results, but who knows. Especially, if you don't even make an effort. Do some research about SEO, web design, marketing etc. You don't have to be an expert, just motivated. Most of us know more about selling our work than any other agency does. Why? Because it is our work and we are actually paying attention to what sells and what doesn't. If I think 100 images of parrots in tuxedos are what people want, then I don't need rejections for "too many" parrots in tuxedos. I also have sold at many different price points, so I have some idea of what buyers want to buy my files for.

My quest isn't to become a multi-million dollar corporation. I just want to make a living off the work I do. If I have to do a little extra hard work now to make that more viable in the future, then I'm going to suck it up and do it. If nothing else, I can strive to have better customer support than istock, lately.  ;D

finally some optimism on this forum  ;D

thanks a lot for your inspirational speech!


PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #151 on: January 12, 2011, 22:30 »
0
I have a couple of sites. One is commerce enabled, the other isn't. I know SEO very well. I'm sure a personal site can help sell something, but not at the volume of an agency. Would love to see this change.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 22:33 by PaulieWalnuts »

« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2011, 12:57 »
0
I keep hearing all of the analysts saying having your own site is the way to go. "The future". I'm not buying it unless some new innovative method is developed for connecting buyers with contributors. In my experience, all of the people who have contacted me directly want freebies. Buyers use stock agencies. Freebie hunters use Flickr and Google. There are exceptions of course but it's rare. Every once in a while you hear about someone on Flickr making a sale.

Why would anyone want to do stock as a hobby? Flickr is a hobby. Stock is a business. But it seems to be turning into a "supplemental income" business. Commission cuts, competition, oversupply, economy, and hitting the growth wall all seem to be slamming contributors pretty hard right now.

If you build it, they will come. Kidding (sort of). If you have a site that has content and is relatively search engine friendly, people will find it. My site has only been open a few months, and guess who is leading the pack this month? ME!

I can't say this will last or improve or that other people will have the same results, but who knows. Especially, if you don't even make an effort. Do some research about SEO, web design, marketing etc. You don't have to be an expert, just motivated. Most of us know more about selling our work than any other agency does. Why? Because it is our work and we are actually paying attention to what sells and what doesn't. If I think 100 images of parrots in tuxedos are what people want, then I don't need rejections for "too many" parrots in tuxedos. I also have sold at many different price points, so I have some idea of what buyers want to buy my files for.

My quest isn't to become a multi-million dollar corporation. I just want to make a living off the work I do. If I have to do a little extra hard work now to make that more viable in the future, then I'm going to suck it up and do it. If nothing else, I can strive to have better customer support than istock, lately.  ;D

Both of you guys bring up excellent points. This has been an enlightening exchange. I do think a better plan is needed by all contributors for all of the reasons you previously mentioned. Thanks for all the pointers.

lisafx

« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2011, 14:15 »
0
Cthoman, your site looks great.  I am glad it is working out for you.  Did you use Clustershot to set it up or did you do the web development yourself? 

I am really becoming motivated to have my own site, but nobody seems to be willing to divulge any information on how they set up their sites.  I can go to GoDaddy or someplace and start from scratch using a wysiwyg, but I really need an interface specifically designed to display and sell images. 

Not to mention that I don't want to get hit with massive charges for data storage or transfer.  I had checked out Photoshelter, but their storage rates were extremely high if you have a decent sized portfolio. 

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2011, 14:16 »
0
I'd be even more scared of credit card fraud.

« Reply #155 on: January 13, 2011, 15:16 »
0
I'd be even more scared of credit card fraud.

PayPal is a pretty good thing in helping to avoid that.  They seem to be rather diligent and have a lot of guarantees for buyers and sellers.  but then, nothing will be foolproof.

check out ipowerweb.com for hosting.  there are a lot of hosting companies out there you can use for pretty cheap that give you a lot of space.  Godaddy nickle and dimes you to death (not to mention they have the most annoying marketing program around).

« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2011, 15:30 »
0
Cthoman, your site looks great.  I am glad it is working out for you.  Did you use Clustershot to set it up or did you do the web development yourself? 

I am really becoming motivated to have my own site, but nobody seems to be willing to divulge any information on how they set up their sites.  I can go to GoDaddy or someplace and start from scratch using a wysiwyg, but I really need an interface specifically designed to display and sell images. 

Not to mention that I don't want to get hit with massive charges for data storage or transfer.  I had checked out Photoshelter, but their storage rates were extremely high if you have a decent sized portfolio. 


Thanks. No, it's KTools Photostore. There was thread here about it:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/so-i-made-a-microstock-site-for-me/

I signed up for a Clustershot store, but realized they didn't do Vectors. I thought it looked like a pretty good solution, but not being able to sell eps versions was a deal breaker for me.

« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2011, 15:46 »
0
Anyone know a ktools site that has RM options on it?  I'd like to see how they handle pricing.

« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2011, 16:22 »
0
Speaking just for myself - I don't think I need to be creating and promoting my own site, handling VISA transactions, downloads, and all that.  I just need some new web-based marketing channel to replace the current microstocks, which are now officially brain-dead.   A site where I can upload my photos, have my own page - which I'm free to promote - and which handles transactions and downloads (in all sizes) for a reasonable commission - not 85%.

The sticking point I think is image quality and 'inspection'.

lisafx

« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2011, 16:42 »
0


Thanks. No, it's KTools Photostore. There was thread here about it:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/so-i-made-a-microstock-site-for-me/

I signed up for a Clustershot store, but realized they didn't do Vectors. I thought it looked like a pretty good solution, but not being able to sell eps versions was a deal breaker for me.


Thanks, that's really helpful information!  :D

rubyroo

« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2011, 18:01 »
0
It comes to something when the agency we pay the biggest commission to so that they can enable our images to be:

Found
Promoted
Sold securely

...is failing to provide the above to the point where contributors feel driven to go and look for a DIY solution.

RacePhoto

« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2011, 18:22 »
0
Cthoman, your site looks great.  I am glad it is working out for you.  Did you use Clustershot to set it up or did you do the web development yourself? 

I am really becoming motivated to have my own site, but nobody seems to be willing to divulge any information on how they set up their sites.  I can go to GoDaddy or someplace and start from scratch using a wysiwyg, but I really need an interface specifically designed to display and sell images. 

Not to mention that I don't want to get hit with massive charges for data storage or transfer.  I had checked out Photoshelter, but their storage rates were extremely high if you have a decent sized portfolio. 


KTools Photostore website. They also will install the basic version, included with the price. I think they do that to make it easier and check the hosting.

Here's the page about the software with demo and links to actual sites that run their software. It works right out of the box.  http://photostore.ktools.net/?aff=9770

They do offer hosting through an affiliate, but I think you can find your own for less. My website (no sales or anything) would handle it and most hosting sites will get your name registered and the fees shouldn't be more than $10 a year for the domain name, I'm paying about $100 a year for the actual hosting. I'm not going to mention the host because there are probably better out there. But just check around.

My thoughts are to create a new site just for photo sales, but what's another lost photo site selling images on the web? I think there must be thousands out there. As I mentioned in PM the idea I had I found a site and they were already on the web selling similar materials for $1 a download. Price war is not my cup of tea. I'll have to find another "great" idea. :D

Of course CrapStock could always find it's way onto the web, even if it was just for the humor of running the site as a comment on some of the new agencies that pop up with big promises and no sales.

(link to ktools = photostore is an affiliate link)  http://photostore.ktools.net/?aff=9770  If you follow the link, take a look at Featured Sites to see what some people are doing with this software.

lisafx

« Reply #162 on: January 13, 2011, 18:51 »
0
Thanks for the links to Photostore Ktools.  I had heard them mentioned before, but never understood exactly what they are.  Now it makes sense. 

Guess I will have to take some time out from shooting/uploading/repeating, to learn this and set up a site. If these sites would stop screwing around I wouldn't have to bother with this.  :P

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #163 on: January 14, 2011, 02:03 »
0
Lisa - you're always welcome to email me and I'd be happy to show you how to set up a simple site. FWIW, I think it's important that a professional photographer has their own website....no matter what's going on with the agency sites.

rubyroo

« Reply #164 on: January 14, 2011, 02:19 »
0
That's a fair point about personal websites SNP.  I'm just concerned that people feel pushed into it by the failure of one agency to deliver on it's fat-fee promise, rather than taking a leap by choice.

Choice = good
Backed into corner = bad 

(IMHO)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 02:21 by rubyroo »

« Reply #165 on: January 14, 2011, 09:08 »
0
That's a fair point about personal websites SNP.  I'm just concerned that people feel pushed into it by the failure of one agency to deliver on it's fat-fee promise, rather than taking a leap by choice.

Choice = good
Backed into corner = bad 

(IMHO)

One agency's failure has certainly been the straw that broke the camel's back, but really, all the agencies take too much and do too little to earn their money.

« Reply #166 on: January 14, 2011, 09:45 »
0
That's a fair point about personal websites SNP.  I'm just concerned that people feel pushed into it by the failure of one agency to deliver on it's fat-fee promise, rather than taking a leap by choice.

Choice = good
Backed into corner = bad 

(IMHO)

One agency's failure has certainly been the straw that broke the camel's back, but really, all the agencies take too much and do too little to earn their money.

I think we must all have known for some time that the steady decline in the rate of sales per image means that there will come a point where the return from the micros starts to fall. We simply can't produce fast enough to compensate for the growth in the collections and the prices can't go on rising forever to make up for falling sales. Commission cuts simply accelerate the speed at which incomes will start to decline. Last year, I managed to make exactly the same as the year before, to within a handful of dollars, despite the pay cut at my biggest agency and the pay freeze at my second one. I can't be optimistic about the coming year, so I'm looking for different ways to make money from my images.
I'm not convinced that direct sales from websites in competition with the micros is the answer. If they are so flooded with images that we can't make decent money, how are we going to find customers that they miss  - and if the customers know about them, why will they buy from us instead of using them?

molka

    This user is banned.
« Reply #167 on: January 14, 2011, 09:47 »
0
I keep hearing all of the analysts saying having your own site is the way to go. "The future". I'm not buying it unless some new innovative method is developed for connecting buyers with contributors. In my experience, all of the people who have contacted me directly want freebies. Buyers use stock agencies. Freebie hunters use Flickr and Google. There are exceptions of course but it's rare. Every once in a while you hear about someone on Flickr making a sale.

Why would anyone want to do stock as a hobby? Flickr is a hobby. Stock is a business. But it seems to be turning into a "supplemental income" business. Commission cuts, competition, oversupply, economy, and hitting the growth wall all seem to be slamming contributors pretty hard right now.

If you build it, they will come. Kidding (sort of). If you have a site that has content and is relatively search engine friendly, people will find it. My site has only been open a few months, and guess who is leading the pack this month? ME!

I can't say this will last or improve or that other people will have the same results, but who knows. Especially, if you don't even make an effort. Do some research about SEO, web design, marketing etc. You don't have to be an expert, just motivated. Most of us know more about selling our work than any other agency does. Why? Because it is our work and we are actually paying attention to what sells and what doesn't. If I think 100 images of parrots in tuxedos are what people want, then I don't need rejections for "too many" parrots in tuxedos. I also have sold at many different price points, so I have some idea of what buyers want to buy my files for.

My quest isn't to become a multi-million dollar corporation. I just want to make a living off the work I do. If I have to do a little extra hard work now to make that more viable in the future, then I'm going to suck it up and do it. If nothing else, I can strive to have better customer support than istock, lately.  ;D

your site's pagerank is 0
shutterstock, istock, getty: 7

« Reply #168 on: January 14, 2011, 10:19 »
0
That's a fair point about personal websites SNP.  I'm just concerned that people feel pushed into it by the failure of one agency to deliver on it's fat-fee promise, rather than taking a leap by choice.

Choice = good
Backed into corner = bad 

(IMHO)

One agency's failure has certainly been the straw that broke the camel's back, but really, all the agencies take too much and do too little to earn their money.

I think we must all have known for some time that the steady decline in the rate of sales per image means that there will come a point where the return from the micros starts to fall. We simply can't produce fast enough to compensate for the growth in the collections and the prices can't go on rising forever to make up for falling sales. Commission cuts simply accelerate the speed at which incomes will start to decline. Last year, I managed to make exactly the same as the year before, to within a handful of dollars, despite the pay cut at my biggest agency and the pay freeze at my second one. I can't be optimistic about the coming year, so I'm looking for different ways to make money from my images.
I'm not convinced that direct sales from websites in competition with the micros is the answer. If they are so flooded with images that we can't make decent money, how are we going to find customers that they miss  - and if the customers know about them, why will they buy from us instead of using them?

Both you and molka bring up some interesting points.

The agencies pagerank is always going to be good. They have tons of money to buy their way to the top. I will never be able to compete with that.

I just hate having such a defeatist attitude, and I especially hate showing it to the agencies. A lot of bad things in history have happened because people were convinced that there was nothing they could do. I personally think there is something that people could do, but there are too many afraid to take the chance to make a change. <sigh>

« Reply #169 on: January 14, 2011, 10:30 »
0
Anyone know a ktools site that has RM options on it?  I'd like to see how they handle pricing.

You set your own prices with that software package, whether it is $1 or a few orders of magnitudes higher.  And you can charge different prices by image size, or have a one price fits all option.

lisafx

« Reply #170 on: January 14, 2011, 10:41 »
0

I'm not convinced that direct sales from websites in competition with the micros is the answer. If they are so flooded with images that we can't make decent money, how are we going to find customers that they miss  - and if the customers know about them, why will they buy from us instead of using them?

You may be right, Balderick.  Certainly we can't expect our personal sites to compete with the micros for search position or on volume of customers.  OTOH, if we are setting our own prices and keeping 100% of the sale, we wouldn't need a whole lot of customers for our own site to rank in our earnings at least as well as the lower or maybe even mid-tier agencies. 

I'm with Cathy.  Tired of sitting back and feeling helpless.  Those that have already started their own sites seem to be reporting some traffic, and if expenses can be kept down, there's no reason not to give it a try. 

Eventually, if enough of us have our own sites, we might be able to find some way to integrate them into one search function to make one-stop shopping for customers. 

« Reply #171 on: January 14, 2011, 10:48 »
0
Anyone know a ktools site that has RM options on it?  I'd like to see how they handle pricing.
You set your own prices with that software package, whether it is $1 or a few orders of magnitudes higher.  And you can charge different prices by image size, or have a one price fits all option.

Yes, I found lots of RF pricing on the demo sites.  I'm asking if anyone knows of someone using the software that has their images licensing as RM.

« Reply #172 on: January 14, 2011, 11:05 »
0
Anyone know a ktools site that has RM options on it?  I'd like to see how they handle pricing.
You set your own prices with that software package, whether it is $1 or a few orders of magnitudes higher.  And you can charge different prices by image size, or have a one price fits all option.

Yes, I found lots of RF pricing on the demo sites.  I'm asking if anyone knows of someone using the software that has their images licensing as RM.

When you originally asked the question, Sean, I looked around too and couldn't find a site that specifically used RM pricing. I noticed on some of the sites there was an option showing for RM and RF, and the user had checked RF, but that's about all I could find.

molka

    This user is banned.
« Reply #173 on: January 14, 2011, 11:38 »
0
That's a fair point about personal websites SNP.  I'm just concerned that people feel pushed into it by the failure of one agency to deliver on it's fat-fee promise, rather than taking a leap by choice.

Choice = good
Backed into corner = bad  

(IMHO)


One agency's failure has certainly been the straw that broke the camel's back, but really, all the agencies take too much and do too little to earn their money.

I think we must all have known for some time that the steady decline in the rate of sales per image means that there will come a point where the return from the micros starts to fall. We simply can't produce fast enough to compensate for the growth in the collections and the prices can't go on rising forever to make up for falling sales. Commission cuts simply accelerate the speed at which incomes will start to decline. Last year, I managed to make exactly the same as the year before, to within a handful of dollars, despite the pay cut at my biggest agency and the pay freeze at my second one. I can't be optimistic about the coming year, so I'm looking for different ways to make money from my images.
I'm not convinced that direct sales from websites in competition with the micros is the answer. If they are so flooded with images that we can't make decent money, how are we going to find customers that they miss  - and if the customers know about them, why will they buy from us instead of using them?

Both you and molka bring up some interesting points.

The agencies pagerank is always going to be good. They have tons of money to buy their way to the top. I will never be able to compete with that.

I just hate having such a defeatist attitude, and I especially hate showing it to the agencies. A lot of bad things in history have happened because people were convinced that there was nothing they could do. I personally think there is something that people could do, but there are too many afraid to take the chance to make a change. <sigh>

ok, how 'bout everyone withdrawing their shots from at least istock... or at least deactivating them? punishment due. the best would be everybody removing their ports from micro sites and uploading them to sites like alamy. think big, do something like this, or they'll just keep raping you untill you look like swiss cheese.

helix7

« Reply #174 on: January 14, 2011, 15:37 »
0
ok, how 'bout everyone withdrawing their shots from at least istock... or at least deactivating them? punishment due. the best would be everybody removing their ports from micro sites and uploading them to sites like alamy. think big, do something like this, or they'll just keep raping you untill you look like swiss cheese.

That's easy to say, not so easy to do. You're asking people to stop making a living from microstock and potentially move to a site that might not make them anything. I've been with Alamy, never made much money there. I make a modest living with microstock sites. Why should I give that up because of your moral objection to microstock?


 

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