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Author Topic: My image to be on book cover: What to do?  (Read 14837 times)

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« on: September 02, 2009, 16:07 »
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I got email from a publishing company who wants to put one of my images from IS on the children book cover. They were saying that the available size on IS was not enough to fit on the cover and asking me for a higher resolution image. I do have it in higher resolution as I originally decreased the size since the sharpness could have been better.

Should I just provide them with the increased size of the image, or should I ask them to compensate me for it in some way? I guess, by IS rules, EL is not needed here. They have, obviously, already bought the image on IS. I would appreciate any advices here...


lisafx

« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 16:15 »
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Tough call.  I would ask about the size of the print run.  It may require an EL. 

You might want to run this past istock customer support.  They may be able to facilitate the sale of the larger size.  That way you would be covered by their license agreement.

If IS won't help, I would probably e-mail them the larger size for what an XL or XXL would cost on istock (or in this case the difference between that and what they paid).   All this is assuming they have some sort of digital receipt to prove they did download the pic. 

Some of the legal eagles around here may have better advice :)

« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 16:20 »
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Tough call.  I would ask about the size of the print run.  It may require an EL. 

You might want to run this past istock customer support. 

Some of the legal eagles around here may have better advice :)

I agree with lisafx.....  a simple question... how can they be using it on a run of books without an EL?

This is a tough one, especially  IF  they did buy the image already... it would seem to me that the buyer would first go back to IS and ask this question... If I were a buyer, that's who I'd be asking....
     almost sounds fishy, bro.  8)=tom

p.s. Congrats!!!  Publishing books, mags, etc  is the way to go.  Later, try dealing direct with the publishing company as a free lancer for hire.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 16:22 by a.k.a.-tom »

« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 16:24 »
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I agree with lisafx.....  a simple question... how can they be using it on a run of books without an EL?

Most books don't print high enough to go above the 500k limit.

I dealt directly with the publisher once on such an issue, wrote an outside RM contract and got the money, if I remember correctly.

« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 16:36 »
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Most books don't print high enough to go above the 500k limit.

I dealt directly with the publisher once on such an issue, wrote an outside RM contract and got the money, if I remember correctly.

You are correct on that... I should have thought of that... most of the book runs I've been involved with were less than 1,000,  sometimes only 4-5 hundred. 
   thanks for setting me straight sjlocke8)=TOM

P.S.   LOL... of course maybe the customer is the U.S. Fed... they seem to print hundreds of thousands of books that wind up sitting in a warehouse in Arlington... ha ha ha...

« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 16:40 »
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Most books don't print high enough to go above the 500k limit.

I dealt directly with the publisher once on such an issue, wrote an outside RM contract and got the money, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I highly doubt that the book will be published in more than 500k copies. I actually need to do some post processing on the raw file again to provide them with the higher resolution file, I also need to increase the size by 5%. Should I charge for this, and if yes, how much?

« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 16:47 »
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Since they knew the size of the file on IS was not big enough for the book, if they downloaded, that's one transaction. Providing a larger size not originally offered, in my opinion, should be charged extra for. I agree that you should charge whatever IS charges for that size image. Once you get the post-processing done at the new size, you can post on sites and maybe recoup some of the extra costs.

« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 17:17 »
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Since this is custom work that is being done for a single customer, I would charge as such (hourly rate * time required).

Microstock prices are cheap because of the expected payoff from higher volume.  This doesn't mean that custom work needs to be priced the same way (since custom work is just that - custom - and has no additional volume).

I would also ask specifics about the project before I quoted them a final price, such as the file format requested (JPG vs TIFF), the DPI requested, the size of the expected print run, the colorspace requested (RBG vs CMYK), and even about the book itself.

As SJLocke stated, I would also create a basic contract that they would need to agree to.

Hope that helps.

« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 17:43 »
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I would also ask specifics about the project before I quoted them a final price, such as the file format requested (JPG vs TIFF), the DPI requested, the size of the expected print run, the colorspace requested (RBG vs CMYK), and even about the book itself.

As SJLocke stated, I would also create a basic contract that they would need to agree to.

Hope that helps.

Thank you, this certainly helps. I already know the required size and the DPI spec for the image. I will ask the rest of the questions. About the book, it's a large format hard cover children book, that will be marketed to schools and libraries, and to some extent, to bookstores and stores such as Barnes & Nobles, Target, etc.

wilddingo

    This user is banned.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 17:56 »
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I actually need to do some post processing on the raw file again to provide them with the higher resolution file, I also need to increase the size by 5%. Should I charge for this, and if yes, how much?

Dude, dont be a bozo.

The publisher is not buying from IStock, theyre buying from you.  Your overhead is not the same as IStocks.  IStock overhead is spread over millions of images.  Your overhead for this request has to be recouped by this ONE sale.  If you dont recoup your overhead on this sale, then this bozo client just made you lose money.

You charge for EVERYTHING and especially, in this case, your time to handle this particular request.

You charge for the time it takes to read their initial e-mail, to write a response, to load the image up in PS, to tweak the image up 5%, to zip it up, to e-mail it back to them, and everything else that might be remotely associated with handling this request including the time you wasted asking the microstock bozos here how to charge for their intellectual property (short answer: they dont know, which is why they all sell it for $1).  If the publisher e-mail made you nervous and gave you too much gas, you should charge them for the Maalox too.

Once you add up all your time, you tack on a usage fee, which in the case of a front cover you can start negotiating at upwards of $1,000.00.  Remember, your image is going to sell their book.  No one is going to buy their book if they put someone elses image on it because if this was the case, they wouldve picked another $1 image from the millions available where they saw yours.

If they dont like your price, you can tell them to come kiss Wilddingo's ass.

« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 18:12 »
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If they dont like your price, you can tell them to come kiss Wilddingo's ass.


Hahaha :D

« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 18:32 »
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Once you add up all your time, you tack on a usage fee, which in the case of a front cover you can start negotiating at upwards of $1,000.00.  Remember, your image is going to sell their book.
I get what you are saying and I agree with all the reasons behind this. However, I'm aware that there is a lot of competition out there and if they can buy another picture for a few dollars and my picture for $1,000+, I think they will choose another picture. The can also use my picture and enlarge it and save this money. In my estimate (I will ask), the whole book will not print in more than a few thousand copies, so one thousand dollars would be a significant part of the total cost.

« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 19:26 »
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Sincerely, if you have the image at RF microstock, it doesn't make sense to charge RM prices.

How much would the size asked bythem cost at IS?  Ask 2-3 times that.  You will get a lot more than you would at IS, and they will pay for it since it seems this is the image they want.

m@m

« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 19:51 »
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I agree with Adelaide!...it make sense, you'll make more than you would with IS and at the same time you'll not drive the away looking for some other photo.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 19:57 by m@m »

wilddingo

    This user is banned.
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 20:19 »
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I'm aware that there is a lot of competition out there and if they can buy another picture for a few dollars and my picture for $1,000+, I think they will choose another picture. The can also use my picture and enlarge it and save this money.

Dude, do you think they spent 10 minutes picking your image for the front cover?

Heck, no!

They looked at probably hundreds, if not thousands.  They probably tried composing several images with type on the cover, with several crops, and probably circulated these choices over and over again until they found the freakin perfect one.  That freakin perfect one is your freakin picture, dude.

They put a lot of money and effort picking it because their whole project is riding on this image.  If its not perfect, the book wont sell.  Its that fing simple.

If they dont like your price, its not going to be cheap for them to change it now.  They already convinced everyone they needed to convince that your picture is the best.  If they want a cover image from an RM outlet, theyre looking at around $2K, so youre giving them a freakin deal at half price.

By the way, if youre in business licensing intellectual property, dude, you dont give a rats ass what the competition is selling for.  You know your costs, you find your opportunities, and you pick your price to give YOU a freakin profit.

If you cant make a profit on a deal because your client is too cheap, then youve got an unprofitable client in your hands and you dont want him.  Let your competitors have him.  Theyre going to lose money on him, not you.

Dingo's going to let you in on a little secret.  Acquiring, maintaining and servicing clients is very costly.  Both in terms of time and money.  You only want to keep the ones that allow YOU to make a profit.  Everyone else is just a waste of your time and money and they can go take a flying leap for all you care.  Your competition might have a lower cost base than you and they might be able to offer licenses for less, but you'll never lower your cost base by keeping expensive clients and then selling for less.

Are you in this to MAKE money or to GIVE IT AWAY?

« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 20:43 »
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Use the Getty price calculator for an approximate price.

« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 21:29 »
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wilddingo,

I would agree with you if the image was not in microstock.  Once it's there, it's valued differently.  GA may set a higher price since there is obvious interest, but trying to negotiate it as macrostock doesn't make sense to me.  One has to decide what market he is dealing with.

« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 21:55 »
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I have to agree with Wilddingo on this one.  It is definitely different from what is on the micros because he will have to sink several more hours into it, draw up a license agreement, collect payment and a long list of things not to mention the correspondence and added steps that are involved in dealing with a client.

wilddingo

    This user is banned.
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2009, 22:09 »
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wilddingo,

I would agree with you if the image was not in microstock.  Once it's there, it's valued differently.  GA may set a higher price since there is obvious interest, but trying to negotiate it as macrostock doesn't make sense to me.  One has to decide what market he is dealing with.

The image on IStock is microstock.  Standard size, standard price tiers.  If the publisher is satisfied with standard microstock sizes, then the publisher can pay standard microstock prices.

The image they want from him is custom.  Different thing, see?  It cannot be created other than by him, and he will need to invest time and money to service this request.  Everything from creating the image required to corresponding, billing and collecting from the publisher is time and money.  If the publisher wants to upsize the image themselves, let THEM spend their time and money, not his.

You people have got to understand that images distributed through your agents are priced by your agents according to your agents' cost bases, but images distributed through you are priced by YOU and have a completely different cost base.

As for usage rates... you need to get a handle on what your product is.  It's not freakin' pictures, it's intellectual property.  You can buy a song on iTunes for a buck.  You get a standard recording, sampled at a standard rate as originally recorded on a CD, plus the right to listen to it on a personal level on a certain number of iTunes devices.

If you want to use the same song on a commercial level to promote a book, and you want the original artist to record a custom version at a custom sampling rate just for you, it's not the same thing, capisci?

You dudes have got to understand that there is a BIG difference between generating cashflow and making a profit.  Licensing custom images for piddling microstock prices below your cost base will generate cashflow but put you at a loss and you'll go broke eventually.  Licensing images with healthy margins will give you profit and allow you to grow and expand your business.

« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2009, 03:23 »
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Sincerely, if you have the image at RF microstock, it doesn't make sense to charge RM prices.

At last someone talking sense!

I've had requests like this on two occasions (out of 160K+ total sales). I say "Yes no problem, I'll email it to you". FOC.

If I've downsized the image it was almost certainly to either overcome a borderline technical issue or to improve the comp (and thereby sales) and I'll warn them of that. I won't do any post-processing at all, just pluck the original out and send it to them via YouSendIt. It maybe takes 10 minutes of my time and I'm happy to help a customer out. I do check that the image sold recently at the largest available size though!

On both occasions the customer was extremely grateful and I received a copy of the magazine or a photo of the exhibition display it ended up on. In your case I'd suggest a copy of the book __ I'm sure that would mean more to you than a few extra $'s.

Sometimes business isn't just about trying to exploit and maximise every opportunity to boost income. My own business isn't based on doing custom work for individual customers but instead on producing 'good enough' images at low cost and selling them in high volumes. An issue like this pops up about once every 18 months, takes a few minutes and really isn't worth charging for IMHO.


« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2009, 03:54 »
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125$ = EL at Istock (Unlimited Reproduction / Print Runs)

« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2009, 05:31 »
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You dudes have got to understand that there is a BIG difference between generating cashflow and making a profit.  Licensing custom images for piddling microstock prices below your cost base will generate cashflow but put you at a loss and you'll go broke eventually. 

I would agree if he was reshooting the image.  It's the same image he has at IS, except for the size.  Charge 2-3 times what IS would charge for the same size and he will make 10-15 times what he would had he uploaded the original size.  I suppose this would be a US$50-60 sale?   Excellent for an image that is at microstock for a usage that (unfortunately) does not require EL.

« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2009, 07:16 »
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Sincerely, if you have the image at RF microstock, it doesn't make sense to charge RM prices.

At last someone talking sense!

I've had requests like this on two occasions (out of 160K+ total sales). I say "Yes no problem, I'll email it to you". FOC.

If I've downsized the image it was almost certainly to either overcome a borderline technical issue or to improve the comp (and thereby sales) and I'll warn them of that. I won't do any post-processing at all, just pluck the original out and send it to them via YouSendIt. It maybe takes 10 minutes of my time and I'm happy to help a customer out. I do check that the image sold recently at the largest available size though!

On both occasions the customer was extremely grateful and I received a copy of the magazine or a photo of the exhibition display it ended up on. In your case I'd suggest a copy of the book __ I'm sure that would mean more to you than a few extra $'s.

Sometimes business isn't just about trying to exploit and maximise every opportunity to boost income. My own business isn't based on doing custom work for individual customers but instead on producing 'good enough' images at low cost and selling them in high volumes. An issue like this pops up about once every 18 months, takes a few minutes and really isn't worth charging for IMHO.



+1

If you totally make a new image for them, then yeah you could charge them quite a bit, but in this case I would just send them the image unless you really need the money..
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 07:19 by Freezingpictures »

« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2009, 07:19 »
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I agree with madelaide and others. If it were a similar BUT NOT EXACTLY the same image, RF is out and RM is in. Exact image as on RF but bigger size should stay reasonably priced.

edit: after re-reading above post, I don't think you should just give it to them. If it were on microstock, they would have had to pay for the large size anyway.

Do you know if they already downloaded the largest size that WAS on IS? If they did, maybe you could take that into account with the pricing, since they won't be able to use that size.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 07:22 by cclapper »

« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2009, 07:57 »
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I'm amazed that their own graphics department cannot upsize the image by 5% anyway. ( if I'm reading this right)  That can be easily done without any significant degredation -  especially considering the amount of older macro stock out there that has been up-ressed much more than that. Eg Alamy


 

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