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Author Topic: Nervous breakdown - Istockphoto, what else? Exlcusivity etc...  (Read 24045 times)

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« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2012, 18:43 »
+1
...The other thing - how reliable are the payment systems of other agencies? With istock I have always been paid on time, no problem. I still dont have experience with payouts at other sites.

I have no problems with any of the 20 agencies I get payments from. In fact, most are easier to deal with than istock. SS only allows one payout per month, but they do it automatically and like clockwork every month. No action required on my part. The ones that allow payouts any time generally pay out within a few days of the request. Some even same-day or within 24 hours many times.

Never missed a payment, lost a payment, or had any reason to contact any agency about a payment. And the only company that I ever wonder about whether or not I'm getting paid the proper amount at is istock.

There have been payment problems at other sites, but never more than a temporary hiccup - as has been the case several times at iStock.

Some sites (I think FT is still like this) don't have a set schedule and don't seem to be able to deliver a set number of days after a request, so that makes for a lot of "where's my payment" questions. They always end up paying in the end though.

In almost a decade, I've never had a serious problem getting paid at IS. At most, maybe two o three times (over hundreds), one or two days delays for some technical problem related to istock or paypal.


« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2012, 20:11 »
+4
... And in other new I saw that Rasmus Rasmussen dropped his crown. (for those who that means anything to). He was a long time istocker and reviewer.

« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2012, 20:18 »
+3
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.

ShadySue

« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2012, 20:24 »
+1
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


I do think it's significant when former iStock employees hand in their crowns. They probably have more insight into the inner shenanigans than the rest of us do.
 >:( ??? :o

« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2012, 20:32 »
0
Interesting.

ShadySue

« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2012, 20:35 »
0
I missed the posts about Ras and Michael Jay giving up exclusivity.
Does anyone know if Kelly is also becoming indie? I think I saw one or two unhappy posts from her recently about declining sales and income.

« Reply #106 on: December 23, 2012, 20:46 »
0
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.

I do think it's significant when former iStock employees hand in their crowns. They probably have more insight into the inner shenanigans than the rest of us do.
 >:( ??? :o


Hmmm. Is the dam about to burst for Istock? As it happens 'The Print' is married to KCline and, judging by her recent posts, she's not exactly best pleased with Istock either.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 20:54 by gostwyck »

« Reply #107 on: December 23, 2012, 21:52 »
-1
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.


He'd put be crazy to put that portfolio on the other micros. I'm sure he must have other ideas.

« Reply #108 on: December 23, 2012, 22:20 »
0
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.


He'd put be crazy to put that portfolio on the other micros. I'm sure he must have other ideas.


I think he'd be crazy not to having now given up his crown. He could always have selected some images for RM whilst remaining exclusive. He hasn't uploaded anything to IS for over two years but, on the other micros, his entire portfolio would become 'new' again. I think he'd do very well elsewhere.

« Reply #109 on: December 23, 2012, 23:10 »
-1
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.


He'd put be crazy to put that portfolio on the other micros. I'm sure he must have other ideas.


I think he'd be crazy not to having now given up his crown. He could always have selected some images for RM whilst remaining exclusive. He hasn't uploaded anything to IS for over two years but, on the other micros, his entire portfolio would become 'new' again. I think he'd do very well elsewhere.


I agree, he'd do very well elsewhere, but he'd be wasted on the sub sites. I don't want to say too much in a public forum.
I think Getty will be happy to see photographers of that quality handing in their crowns and uploading to macro sites, where they will compete on an equal basis, rather than undercutting Getty photographers.
Maybe this has always been their plan. Force the more creative people to leave IS and upload to the macros, the factories can sell subs.
Or then again, maybe they are just a bunch of idiots. Time will tell.

velocicarpo

« Reply #110 on: December 24, 2012, 09:07 »
-1
Nowadays you can find many skilled People around the world. It is not like they are all in the States or Europe. I would never ever, select a high tax counrty for setting up a itnernet business in these days.

It's simply not true that you can find specialised technical skills 'all around the world'. You can't even find them all around the same country, even one as big as the US. Why do you think so many tech-businesses choose to set themselves up in Silicon Valley rather than Idaho or any other State where the rent and/or local taxes might be a fraction of the cost?

Tax is simply the price you pay for living in a secure, civilised society.

Dream on....guess we do not live i the same world.

lisafx

« Reply #111 on: December 24, 2012, 11:08 »
+2
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


This says it all, really.  I suspect these guys would never have given up their crowns if they had any hope that Istock would return to its former self. 

« Reply #112 on: December 24, 2012, 11:23 »
+5
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


This says it all, really.  I suspect these guys would never have given up their crowns if they had any hope that Istock would return to its former self.


I came across this post recently from Abzee, on the RC announcement thread, back in Sept 2010. It turns out to have been amazingly prophetic;

"Just a note to Kelly JJRD Rogermexico and Lobo, as they have been in this thread so far.

After you have successfully executed the Getty Masterplan you too will likely feel what it's like to be shafted, I only hope you'll think it was worth it."


Only Lobo still there.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=251812&page=23


lisafx

« Reply #113 on: December 24, 2012, 11:44 »
+3

I came across this post recently from Abzee, on the RC announcement thread, back in Sept 2010. It turns out to have been amazingly prophetic;

"Just a note to Kelly JJRD Rogermexico and Lobo, as they have been in this thread so far.

After you have successfully executed the Getty Masterplan you too will likely feel what it's like to be shafted, I only hope you'll think it was worth it."


Only Lobo still there.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=251812&page=23


Wow.  He certainly called that one right!

Still saddens me that the very worst of the predictions about what would happen when Getty bought Istock are the ones that eventually happened.  There were plenty of opportunities for things to turn out more positively for everyone....

« Reply #114 on: December 24, 2012, 11:50 »
0
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


This says it all, really.  I suspect these guys would never have given up their crowns if they had any hope that Istock would return to its former self.


I came across this post recently from Abzee, on the RC announcement thread, back in Sept 2010. It turns out to have been amazingly prophetic;

"Just a note to Kelly JJRD Rogermexico and Lobo, as they have been in this thread so far.

After you have successfully executed the Getty Masterplan you too will likely feel what it's like to be shafted, I only hope you'll think it was worth it."


Only Lobo still there.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=251812&page=23


You are assuming they all were shafted. That, probably, is not exact. I can't say more.

« Reply #115 on: December 24, 2012, 12:13 »
+2
Still saddens me that the very worst of the predictions about what would happen when Getty bought Istock are the ones that eventually happened.  There were plenty of opportunities for things to turn out more positively for everyone....


True. Even the effect of introducing the RC system was predictable enough ... for everyone it would seem other than Istock and Getty management.

One aspect of the Carlyle Group 'purchase' of Getty that wasn't widely discussed at the time was that Carlyle only bought just over 50% of the business. The rest of the money was stumped up by the Getty management, including Klein.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/us-getty-carlyle-idUSBRE87E0FE20120815

I can understand H&F 'harvesting' the business for short-term profit but surely it is now in Getty's interest to operate Istock with the longer-term future in mind. Yet they don't seem capable of it. According to RR the IS forum is "widely read" at Getty HQ. How is it possible that they read the thoughts of so many unhappy contributors and buyers ... and then press on with the same course regardless? Uncanny and yet apparently true.

« Reply #116 on: December 24, 2012, 13:18 »
+1
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


This says it all, really.  I suspect these guys would never have given up their crowns if they had any hope that Istock would return to its former self.



Not sure if it means much really as he isn't involved with microstock lately (according to his own blog his interest is with some other projects, and his most recent upload is from 2010)

« Reply #117 on: December 24, 2012, 13:20 »
+6
...I can understand H&F 'harvesting' the business for short-term profit but surely it is now in Getty's interest to operate Istock with the longer-term future in mind. Yet they don't seem capable of it. According to RR the IS forum is "widely read" at Getty HQ. How is it possible that they read the thoughts of so many unhappy contributors and buyers ... and then press on with the same course regardless? Uncanny and yet apparently true.


Jonanthan Klein has repeatedly been contemptuous of iStock and its "amateur" contributors - there are tons of quotes, but here's one thread, and another and another. I haven't been able to find some of the juicy ones I remember, but I need to run.

I think Klein figures that as long as he has the market sewn up, all roads will lead to one Getty property or another (and he doesn't care which). If there aren't enough other outlets, suppliers will come around (in his view) as they have no choice. I don't think he's right, but I think that's why they just don't care about unhappy iStock contributors much

« Reply #118 on: December 24, 2012, 13:38 »
+3
Jonanthan Klein has repeatedly been contemptuous of iStock and its "amateur" contributors - there are tons of quotes, but here's one thread, and another and another. I haven't been able to find some of the juicy ones I remember, but I need to run.

I think Klein figures that as long as he has the market sewn up, all roads will lead to one Getty property or another (and he doesn't care which). If there aren't enough other outlets, suppliers will come around (in his view) as they have no choice. I don't think he's right, but I think that's why they just don't care about unhappy iStock contributors much


Yes, that's very true. I had forgotten that particularly endearing quality of Klein. Being as he only values his 'pro' photogaphers at a 20% royalty he's probably still quite miffed that many of those 'amateurs' are being paid well above that.

lisafx

« Reply #119 on: December 24, 2012, 17:39 »
0


I think Klein figures that as long as he has the market sewn up, all roads will lead to one Getty property or another (and he doesn't care which). If there aren't enough other outlets, suppliers will come around (in his view) as they have no choice. I don't think he's right, but I think that's why they just don't care about unhappy iStock contributors much

Seems likely that this is his thinking, but as you point out, he is wrong.  These "amateurs" who were able to turn pro thanks to micro, all had other jobs or income sources before.  Many of us will most likely go back to what we were doing and stop producing stock professionally altogether, or else go back to submitting occasional snapshots rather than expensive shoots. 

I know I am not going to be investing a lot in upcoming shoots until I see the returns start to go back up. 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 17:56 by lisafx »

ShadySue

« Reply #120 on: December 24, 2012, 19:21 »
0
Seems likely that this is his thinking, but as you point out, he is wrong.  These "amateurs" who were able to turn pro thanks to micro, all had other jobs or income sources before.  Many of us will most likely go back to what we were doing and stop producing stock professionally altogether, or else go back to submitting occasional snapshots rather than expensive shoots. 

I know I am not going to be investing a lot in upcoming shoots until I see the returns start to go back up.

You're not wrong.
I noticed to my surprise a wildlife 'snapshot' (not even species identified) uploaded months ago by an inspector who has been at iStock since not long after the start, and always did elaborate shots with property and model releases needed, way before I was ever on iStock.
Anyway, I just looked at their port, and this year s/he's only done a very few set up photos in the relatively few uploads they made this year.

« Reply #121 on: December 26, 2012, 21:06 »
+1
theprint is his iStock user name, in case you can't match real world name with member name. He is apparently not in any hurry to get his portfolio up on other sites.

MichaelJay, formerly of the former Berlin office, has also dropped his crown. To be precise, both of them have started their 30 day clock although the crown isn't yet gonzo.


wow.  This is really sad.  I realize they may be moving on to other interests, but if it was really just that then why would they be bothering to drop the crown and spread their portfolios to other sites?  it seems the house of cards at iStock is really starting to gather momentum in its collapse or loss of talent.

aspp

« Reply #122 on: December 27, 2012, 05:18 »
+1
I realize they may be moving on to other interests, but if it was really just that then why would they be bothering to drop the crown

A person wanting to take their creativity in a new direction may very well find the IS terms which relate to their legacy images overly restrictive. People may sometimes give up exclusivity, whilst seemingly having no interest in putting the bulk of their old images with different agents, because they want greater freedom moving forward.

Perhaps they have content which they want to release under a CC licence; perhaps they are interested in promoting themselves at 500px; perhaps they want to use their images in a way which the IS licence prohibits - for example they are doing tutorials or books with downloadable content. Perhaps they see RF stock as where they have come from but not where they are going.

For many people that is going to be about the new work they want make going forward. Giving up IS exclusivity is not necessarily about wanting to be at other RF agents.

« Reply #123 on: December 27, 2012, 09:29 »
0


I think Klein figures that as long as he has the market sewn up, all roads will lead to one Getty property or another (and he doesn't care which). If there aren't enough other outlets, suppliers will come around (in his view) as they have no choice. I don't think he's right, but I think that's why they just don't care about unhappy iStock contributors much

Seems likely that this is his thinking, but as you point out, he is wrong.  These "amateurs" who were able to turn pro thanks to micro, all had other jobs or income sources before.  Many of us will most likely go back to what we were doing and stop producing stock professionally altogether, or else go back to submitting occasional snapshots rather than expensive shoots. 

I know I am not going to be investing a lot in upcoming shoots until I see the returns start to go back up.

It seems you are right here.  I know some to top istock exclusives who are in the bargaining phase of loss.   Some think they can make up their lost istock income (2010) on other sites...  wrong!!.  Some think they can run their own stock sites ... wrong!! except maybe yuri.   Many will have to get their old jobs back.   The resentment of the loss of huge earnings and future income possibilities at istock from their greedy moves will make a lot of people bail on the whole micro stock experiment.   Think about some contributors were making 100K+ a year for what was very little time and effort compared to normal jobs that pay that much.   There will be no investment in future shoots, equipment and etc.   Knowing that 60% of your effort is not enough and it stated as unsustainable was the start of the fall. 

« Reply #124 on: December 27, 2012, 11:32 »
0
Ja, I never really understood why a share of more than 50% was not sustainable.

In my understanding, it is, if you grow the market.

But maybe thats what it is all about, the market could not be expanded after the financial crisis hit.


 

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