Author Topic: best match shake 13/07/11 (Read 21664 times)

VB inc · « **Reply #75 on:** July 14, 2011, 09:43 »

Quote from: lagereek on July 14, 2011, 09:27

I tell you whats happening in the industry. Why do you think us RM photographers within the Getty -RM, was more or less forced to sign away our material to RF and micro? or get out.

IS has always been a thorn in the side of Getty, was a strong site until Getty came along. Within a year from now, IS, will be incorporated in TS, thats whats happening.

Getty's buyers migrated over to istock over the years for cheaper prices. Gettys like "where do you think your going?" comes in through the backdoor and raises prices. Essentially trying to squeeze every last dollar and creates thinkstock for the betrayed buyers but the buyers end up going over to SS and others that dont stink of Getty doodoo...

cobalt · « **Reply #76 on:** July 14, 2011, 09:55 »

"what a great post...very good summary of the way I feel too. particularly agree with your 'benevolent democracy' comment...my only surprise with your post is that you contribute to the PP....would you mind extrapolating on why you think the PP is a safe venture? "

Thanks for the flowers :-)

I am contributing to the pp Programm because the istock subscription program wasn´t competitive with Shutterstock. And as all the independents reported good results from subscription, istock needed an offer for the customers that can only use subscriptions, apparently there are many companies that prefer this licensing model.

Because the subcription offer is on a different site, I am not worried that it will kill my pay as you go sales on istock.

Obviously, the pp programm will be rising in volume, because the sites and the programm are new and getty is promoting them heavily.

A company can grow in many ways:

- they can add more customers by expanding into new countries or culture groups

- they can make their existing customers buy more, for instance by adding new file types (like adding editorial and png)

- they can take away market share from the competition.

The marketing team must of course address all of these areas, so I strongly welcome the pp Program for the subscription market(still do).

So unless they are doing less to promote istock, then I don´t believe that it is the pp programm that is creating the loss in traffic. If the PP Programm is successful you should see Shutterstock losing traffic while the PP Program is gaining traffic. But obviously, this isn´t happening. However, the pp Program is not growing to the same extent as istock is losing traffic. So I don´t think that the normal pay as you go customers are going to PP.

I believe it is a best match that strongly favors files that are 20-50 more expensive than what the customers is used to and that the artistic vetta files by their style simply can never be bought in high volume. If you sort istock by downloads and then again by best match you see a huge, huge difference. A sort by downloads shows you what the regular istock customers are looking for in a given search.

Sort by downloads and you get light, airy, generic, files, often isolated on white, lots of copy space. Of course they are also bland, often boring, but that is what they are supposed to be.

A best match that is dominated by Vetta is darker, fuller, less copy space, edgy, inspiring, artistic...but simply not as widely usable. This means lower downloads. The files are excellent, but the creative edge limits their use. istock has always had these edgy files. Why should they sell more if the price is raised?? Having a specialized collection will help the customers that are looking for cover art and save them time. But it will not become a high volume product.

best match has the biggest effect on customers. They don´t want to "learn their way around an agency". They just want to walk in, find the file and leave. Ideally the best match should read their minds to magically serve up what they want.

Maybe the Price filter really is the solution, but I still think a best match that offers more of a style that is similar to highest downloads will be best. That is why I liked the best match yesterday. It seemed to have a great mix of all files.

lagereek · « **Reply #77 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:38 »

Since Im online I will answer you. I am 100% convinced, especially now after the last best match change. This has got nothing do with the best match or whatever. Look, faithful clients dont really care, do they?

The traffic, isnt there, simple as that, Vettas, agency files, E+, P+, it doesnt really matter, the amount of buyers just isnt there anymore. A bad best match, can be repaired but lack of buyers, etc, is damned difficult to get back.

We know Getty is a joke, their scheme is to milk the cash-cow and then dump it and with minimal costs, everybody know this but some silly buyers. Its like the old casino bosses in LA, skimming off the top, bleeding it dry and then dump it.
Its been like that since 96.

On another note: I really hope SS and DT, takes over this sinking Micro ship and before buyers get so fed up with all the rubbish that they go RM instead.
If the IS crew would have had more spunk in them from the beginning, not being yes-crawling, Im sure it would be slightly better.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #78 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:45 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 14, 2011, 09:55

I am contributing to the pp Programm because the istock subscription program wasn´t competitive with Shutterstock. And as all the independents reported good results from subscription, istock needed an offer for the customers that can only use subscriptions, apparently there are many companies that prefer this licensing model.

Because the subcription offer is on a different site, I am not worried that it will kill my pay as you go sales on istock.

You have to first decide if that's even a sales model you want to participate in, and a customer base that you want to sell to. Not that IS isn't offering one. IMO at least.

cobalt · « **Reply #79 on:** July 14, 2011, 10:52 »

The buyers are there. The market is there (and many emerging economies are untapped). World business hasn´t stopped advertising.

They just aren´t on istock. Shutterstock and Dreamstime seem to have them.

What is the biggest difference between these sites and istock? Prices and best match.

Unless of course, there is no marketing for istock (ads, trade shows, direct marketing)

"You have to first decide if that's even a sales model you want to participate in, and a customer base that you want to sell to. Not that IS isn't offering one. IMO at least."

I know that is where we differ in opinion. If I saw a huge rise in PP traffic and a dramatic drop in both Shutterstock AND istock, then I would probably be very critical. The way it is, I still think the business model is different enough. istock and Shutterstock coexisted for a long, long time and istock was the dominant player.

I may be wrong. Maybe istock is losing all their traffic to Thinkstock. But the stats don´t seem to support that IMO.

VB inc · « **Reply #80 on:** July 14, 2011, 11:11 »

Quote from: sjlocke on July 14, 2011, 10:45

Quote from: cobalt on July 14, 2011, 09:55
I am contributing to the pp Programm because the istock subscription program wasn´t competitive with Shutterstock. And as all the independents reported good results from subscription, istock needed an offer for the customers that can only use subscriptions, apparently there are many companies that prefer this licensing model.

Because the subcription offer is on a different site, I am not worried that it will kill my pay as you go sales on istock.

You have to first decide if that's even a sales model you want to participate in, and a customer base that you want to sell to. Not that IS isn't offering one. IMO at least.

Bolded by me.
I worry about buyers leaving istock for subscription based sites will only hurt this industry further. Buyer migration to the subscription based site will lead to more content providers grudgingly switching over which just devalues the work even further. The slope will get steeper.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #81 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:18 »

Quote from: VB inc on July 14, 2011, 11:11

Quote from: sjlocke on July 14, 2011, 10:45
Quote from: cobalt on July 14, 2011, 09:55
I am contributing to the pp Programm because the istock subscription program wasn´t competitive with Shutterstock. And as all the independents reported good results from subscription, istock needed an offer for the customers that can only use subscriptions, apparently there are many companies that prefer this licensing model.

Because the subcription offer is on a different site, I am not worried that it will kill my pay as you go sales on istock.

You have to first decide if that's even a sales model you want to participate in, and a customer base that you want to sell to. Not that IS isn't offering one. IMO at least.

Bolded by me.
I worry about buyers leaving istock for subscription based sites will only hurt this industry further. Buyer migration to the subscription based site will lead to more content providers grudgingly switching over which just devalues the work even further. The slope will get steeper.

I think that as suppliers all we can do is try to ride the waves, not control them. The industry is driven by forces that are far beyond ability of anybody with just a few thousand images to control. I know some people say that is defeatist, I think it is realistic.

In individual sites, the decisions of managers certainly can affect the direction of the industry. When I was running businesses, my constant imperative was to do what I felt would serve my customers best - believing that profit would naturally follow. That's terribly old fashioned, I know, but it worked for me and I still think it is the only sure strategy for long-term success. It will be interesting to see if the sites which believe in milking customers instead of serving them have a long-term future.

Freedom · « **Reply #82 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:37 »

In the past 24-36 hours, best match has changed a few times again.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #83 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:55 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 14, 2011, 12:18

I think that as suppliers all we can do is try to ride the waves, not control them. The industry is driven by forces that are far beyond ability of anybody with just a few thousand images to control. I know some people say that is defeatist, I think it is realistic.

I'm not necessarily trying to control anything. Cheap subscription sites are not a model I wish to license at, currently, for various reasons.

gostwyck · « **Reply #84 on:** July 14, 2011, 13:42 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 14, 2011, 12:18

I think that as suppliers all we can do is try to ride the waves, not control them. The industry is driven by forces that are far beyond ability of anybody with just a few thousand images to control. I know some people say that is defeatist, I think it is realistic.

No, your thoughts are just defeatist. The fact that Getty actually increased commissions at TS, in a desperate attempt to attract more contributors and their content, is proof that we suppliers most definitely can influence issues if we make a stand. I wish you'd stop being such a wet blanket about the PP (and every other issue) and grow some cojones.

Anyway, the PP is such an utter shambles I really cannot imagine why anyone who values their own work would bother with it.

lagereek · « **Reply #85 on:** July 14, 2011, 14:14 »

Quote from: gostwyck on July 14, 2011, 13:42

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 14, 2011, 12:18
I think that as suppliers all we can do is try to ride the waves, not control them. The industry is driven by forces that are far beyond ability of anybody with just a few thousand images to control. I know some people say that is defeatist, I think it is realistic.

No, your thoughts are just defeatist. The fact that Getty actually increased commissions at TS, in a desperate attempt to attract more contributors and their content, is proof that we suppliers most definitely can influence issues if we make a stand. I wish you'd stop being such a wet blanket about the PP (and every other issue) and grow some cojones.

Anyway, the PP is such an utter shambles I really cannot imagine why anyone who values their own work would bother with it.

Youre right there! PP, is a melting pot of just concentrated rubbish. Makes one feel ashamed its part of Getty.

Shank_ali · « **Reply #86 on:** July 14, 2011, 14:14 »

I applaud the Best Match sort on Istockphoto.It keeps the search fresh for designers and keeps fooling 1000's of contributors who have not got a clue on how it works !!!!

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #87 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:33 »

This is getting hard to track. So they changed it, quickly changed it back to the Vetta/Agency heavy model, and now it looks like its back again to the most recent version.

jamirae · « **Reply #88 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:34 »

whatever it is, if it's the reason I'm suddenly having a few good days of sales at IS, I'm all for it!

cathyslife · « **Reply #89 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:38 »

Quote from: jamirae on July 14, 2011, 17:34

whatever it is, if it's the reason I'm suddenly having a few good days of sales at IS, I'm all for it!

Enjoy it while you can, because I suspect that this week there will be some winners, and next week, well, the winners will be losers, etc. As in the past.

pancaketom · « **Reply #90 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:45 »

Quote from: jamirae on July 14, 2011, 17:34

whatever it is, if it's the reason I'm suddenly having a few good days of sales at IS, I'm all for it!

agreed, it is nice to get some downloads for a change.

cobalt · « **Reply #91 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:51 »

Obviously the ideal would be if the best match is not just dynamic but also intelligent, i.e. it learns the buying habits of the customers, adds regional info and then every customer will see a different best match depending on his or her buying behaviour, location.

If a customer always buys the cheapest files, why offer him search results with 50% Vetta? And a customer that is not budget concious will appreciate a result dominated by the more exclusive V/A with low downloads, so the risk is low that their client will find the same image in use by a competitor. It isn´t RM, but can be better than using files with thousands of downloads.

Mantis · « **Reply #92 on:** July 14, 2011, 17:52 »

Quote from: lisafx on July 13, 2011, 13:09

Quote from: RacePhoto on July 13, 2011, 13:05

Normally I would blow off the, Best Match issues and sales are falling, complaints and whining. It's never ending, so like rain, no one notices another few more drops here and there.

Well it's official now. I haven't had a download on IS in 30 days!

Small collection or not, I've never had a dry spell for that long. Considering I've had the same pictures and at least some monthly downloads for years, I can only guess, that I don't exist and I just haven't realized it yet, or sales have fallen off a cliff! (calling all Lemmings) Not one CrapStock ™ shot sold in a month? Impossible!

Wait, when Mostphotos passes IS, we'll all know it's the end of the world! (is it 2012 yet?)

LOL! This is so typical. Dismiss the complaints of others as whining until the same thing happens to you. Then it is a real problem.

^^ stole my thoughts to a tee.

Graffoto · « **Reply #93 on:** July 14, 2011, 18:00 »

Quote from: jamirae on July 14, 2011, 17:34

whatever it is, if it's the reason I'm suddenly having a few good days of sales at IS, I'm all for it!

150% Same here.
Maybe its just because its July and my mix of stuff seems to do better in the summer, but up until this best match shake-up, I was doing dismally.

Mantis · « **Reply #94 on:** July 14, 2011, 18:02 »

Quote from: sjlocke on July 13, 2011, 14:48

'Can we please drop the fiction that best match has ANYTHING to do with what buyers want?'

Actually, I think the relevancy factor does a pretty good job of showing what other buyers were happy with. Within that, the mix of collections is what it is.

The best match was clearly designed for revenue push given all the different collections, not what makes buyers happy. I mean, why on earth would they put an image of equal quality with equal keyword quality at a fraction of the price (say, from an independent) on the back pages if this image were to make the buyer happy because it's cheaper? It's crystal clear that the best match is #1. revenue push; #2. what the customer wants.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #95 on:** July 14, 2011, 18:05 »

You're basing your assumption on the idea that price is all that makes buyers happy, when it isn't necessarily so. You can't fit everything above the fold.

madelaide · « **Reply #96 on:** July 14, 2011, 18:17 »

I don't know if this has anything to do, but today I got two sales, one of an image that had never sold, the other an image that had no sale since 2008.

VB inc · « **Reply #97 on:** July 14, 2011, 18:46 »

Quote from: pancaketom on July 14, 2011, 17:45

Quote from: jamirae on July 14, 2011, 17:34
whatever it is, if it's the reason I'm suddenly having a few good days of sales at IS, I'm all for it!

agreed, it is nice to get some downloads for a change.

+1.... last two days have been very good to me especially today. In fact this week has been awesome for me since i got 6 ELS for $400. five from apparently one buyer =D

Mantis · « **Reply #98 on:** July 14, 2011, 19:14 »

Quote from: sjlocke on July 14, 2011, 18:05

You're basing your assumption on the idea that price is all that makes buyers happy, when it isn't necessarily so. You can't fit everything above the fold.

Well, not really. I did mention quality....maybe I should have added composition....all I am saying is that there are some pretty competitive images with the upper echelon price points that don't get poop for placement when they should. Agree, though, that given all the collections you have to have a happy medium.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #99 on:** July 14, 2011, 19:23 »

Now that I've looked at this latest version it's not the same. Looks like this favors high performing images and Vetta/Agency but not "+" images or editorial like the last version.

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Author Topic: best match shake 13/07/11 (Read 21664 times)

VB inc

cobalt

lagereek

Sean Locke Photography

cobalt

VB inc

BaldricksTrousers

Freedom

Sean Locke Photography

gostwyck

lagereek

Shank_ali

PaulieWalnuts

jamirae

cathyslife

pancaketom

cobalt

Mantis

Graffoto

Mantis

Sean Locke Photography

madelaide

VB inc

Mantis

PaulieWalnuts

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