MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: lisafx on June 13, 2010, 18:23

Title: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 13, 2010, 18:23
I am really concerned that new images are not selling on Istock.  Out of 95 images accepted and online in month of May I have only had 23 sales.  Only one sale so far of the 25 approved in June.   That is about the worst performance I can remember for new images.  

I realize that images can take awhile to build momentum on Istock, but even so this is way below par performance of new images and series.  Even the ones that were DL'd right away as they came through the newly approved queue don't seem to have gotten any noticeable bump and haven't collected additional sales.  

Kind of makes me wonder why I am bothering to upload.  Anyone else experiencing the same?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: stockastic on June 13, 2010, 18:27
My portfolio is tiny, but I think this is happening everywhere.  A few photos that I uploaded early on, last year when I was getting started, account for most of my sales.  New photos don't seem to be worth the effort.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Graffoto on June 13, 2010, 19:04
Lisa,

Are they getting views and no sales or no views at all?
I notice my new files that get a fair about of views begin to sell within three to four weeks after approval.

Almost nothing new sells for me in the first couple of weeks though.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 13, 2010, 19:30
They are getting some views, but hardly any sales. 

Hard to say if views are down or not since I have never paid too much attention to them before.  Only reason I am noticing them now is because there are so few sales. 

Not sure if it is just more looky-lou's, more competition, or lousy search position.  Or all of the above? 

This is why I want to know of others are experiencing the same. 
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Kone on June 13, 2010, 19:47
Yeah, not just Istock, everywhere is slow right now for me. I had more downloads last year at same time period, nevermind portfolio size.
I got lots of views on I stock but not many sales. As you said mostly old files are getting sales.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: cthoman on June 13, 2010, 20:04
It seems to be business as usual for me there, although my sandbox is a little different than yours.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: brookefuller on June 13, 2010, 20:06
For me my new images have been selling well on iStock, along with the images that have always been good sellers.  I am still trending up on all of my sites, but I am also shooting ~100 images a week & I think that keeps me rolling along.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PixelsAway on June 13, 2010, 21:46
27 downloads from 60 pictures uploaded in May
74 downloads from 50 pictures uploaded in April
99 downloads from 50 pictures uploaded in March ...
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: FD on June 13, 2010, 22:43
Not sure if it is just more looky-lou's, more competition, or lousy search position.  Or all of the above?

I struggled with this too, for a long time. Only my old crap sold. Recently, it got a bit better. I have the impression that new files have to catch off quickly, or they get buried deep down in the searches. I also had 2 flames removed last week since too much of a car was visible.

It isn't easy to get noticed today, and probably conventional subjects get flooded more easily by oversupply. iStock certainly made a very creative swing recently. I love to browse there, under newest.

I used to do landscapes/landmarks and models but inspired by Kone's port, I started to shoot objects/body parts/concepts in lightbox the past week, with a more unusual touch, like this (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=55104688) and this (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-55104709/stock-photo-sitting-duckling-or-gosling-dressed-in-medical-facial-mask-with-its-beak-wide-open-and-waving-its.html). They are still in the queue on iStock, and mostly not uploaded by the 15-limit, but I'm curious whether this kind of content will take off better than engineers and business women with headsets.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Dook on June 14, 2010, 01:59
I have even bigger problem than new files not selling. It is being new at IS. I have friends that are one or two years longer at IS (with almost the same size of port and not better ones) and they have about 10 or 15 times more downloads. It looks like you must be at least two years there to start making some money or to have fantastic pictures.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: gostwyck on June 14, 2010, 03:58
Yeah, not just Istock, everywhere is slow right now for me.

Yep. I think it is just the general malaise affecting all of microstock __ too much competition, too many images covering virtually every subject and too many more images coming on-line every day/week/month. Supply is simply outstripping the increase in demand.

It's going to get worse too. At the current rate of growth the Big 3 agencies will probably double the size of their collections in the next two years but I doubt that demand and/or prices will double in the same timescale. I think it highly likely that earnings-per-image will decrease substantially for most of us.

The microstock bubble has quietly burst. If you have a mature portfolio and your earnings peaked in March you may never see those sort of numbers again. We'll have to wait for Sept/Oct/Nov to find out though.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: FD on June 14, 2010, 04:11
The microstock bubble has quietly burst. If you have a mature portfolio and your earnings peaked in March you may never see those sort of numbers again. We'll have to wait for Sept/Oct/Nov to find out though.
+1
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on June 14, 2010, 05:15
Not sure if it is just more looky-lou's, more competition, or lousy search position.  Or all of the above? 

My new stuff usually takes a couple months to get some steam on IS.

But so far this month I'm on track for being down about 30% in revenue. This isn't the way it normally works. If I'm down it's usually a few precent. Nothing major. June seems really sluggish.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on June 14, 2010, 05:22
The microstock bubble has quietly burst.

Maybe, but I don't think this happens overnight. It's slowly deflating.

Maybe it's the summer slowdown. The economy here in the US seems to be stalling so I'm wondering if we're headed for a double-dip recession.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Neustock Media on June 14, 2010, 05:29
We are find the same worrying trend with our new uploads too. Sales peaked this year in july and despite adding a great deal of new content we are seeing declines in DLs and the new content is not getting the sales it should.

Why?

I think a mixture of the following:

A stronger than usual summer slump.

The decrease in value of the euro versus the dollar

The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.

Istocks declining market share, which is being caused by the confusing stratification of their prices. We now have 3 separate prices for exclusive content: regular exclusive, exclusive plus & vetta. I think the more budget conscious buyer is seeing this for the blatant profit increasing stategy that this is and is taking their business elsewhere.


Just my two cents.


George
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: gostwyck on June 14, 2010, 05:46
Istocks declining market share, which is being caused by the confusing stratification of their prices. We now have 3 separate prices for exclusive content: regular exclusive, exclusive plus & vetta. I think the more budget conscious buyer is seeing this for the blatant profit increasing stategy that this is and is taking their business elsewhere.

I don't think Istock's market share is actually declining. On my graph both SS and FT are showing an almost identical percentage decline and DT is even worse. Whatever is happening is industry-wide IMHO __ hopefully it is just an unusually deep 'summer slowdown'. Istock have been remarkably stable for nearly 18 months now, relative to other agencies, steadily generating 37% of my stock income plus or minus 3%. As an independent contributor I have seen no obvious effect, either negative or positive, resulting from the new price structure.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: michealo on June 14, 2010, 05:57
We are find the same worrying trend with our new uploads too. Sales peaked this year in july and despite adding a great deal of new content we are seeing declines in DLs and the new content is not getting the sales it should.

Why?

I think a mixture of the following:

A stronger than usual summer slump.

The decrease in value of the euro versus the dollar

The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.

Istocks declining market share, which is being caused by the confusing stratification of their prices. We now have 3 separate prices for exclusive content: regular exclusive, exclusive plus & vetta. I think the more budget conscious buyer is seeing this for the blatant profit increasing stategy that this is and is taking their business elsewhere.


Just my two cents.


George

George am I correct in thinking you were involved in Stockbyte?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: loop on June 14, 2010, 06:15

The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.


Just my two cents.


George

Yes, "factories" have increased, and while Yuri just touched the best selling themes, some of the new ones have gone afeter mid and even low selling themes too. Often, they limit themselves to reshoot what already sells, with more means, equipment and proficiency. Not telling names, of course, but there are some "factory" portfolios where you can't find the tiniest spark of originality.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Oldhand on June 14, 2010, 06:35
The microstock bubble has quietly burst. If you have a mature portfolio and your earnings peaked in March you may never see those sort of numbers again. We'll have to wait for Sept/Oct/Nov to find out though.
+1

Now why, when I checked my stats, was I not surprised mine peaked in March with a mature potfolio!

I concur with Madelaides obervations about new images at IS - very poor sales initially.

Postitive observations welcome on a postcard..

Oldhand
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 14, 2010, 06:43
The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.

Just my two cents.

George
Yes, "factories" have increased, and while Yuri just touched the best selling themes, some of the new ones have gone afeter mid and even low selling themes too. Often, they limit themselves to reshoot what already sells, with more means, equipment and proficiency. Not telling names, of course, but there are some "factory" portfolios where you can't find the tiniest spark of originality.

A diploma from YuriUniversity doesn't pay what it used to ;) .
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: RT on June 14, 2010, 06:54
Often, they limit themselves to reshoot what already sells, with more means, equipment and proficiency. Not telling names, of course, but there are some "factory" portfolios where you can't find the tiniest spark of originality.

Can you blame them, for years some people have been bragging about how much they sell on microstock, why bother researching and then creating something that 'might' sell when there are so many easy and free resources that do the groundwork for them.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: loop on June 14, 2010, 07:28
It is not a question of blaming or not blaming. It's just facts. Maybe a matter of sel-esteem, too.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: michealo on June 14, 2010, 07:32
I am really concerned that new images are not selling on Istock.  Out of 95 images accepted and online in month of May I have only had 23 sales.  Only one sale so far of the 25 approved in June.   That is about the worst performance I can remember for new images.  

I realize that images can take awhile to build momentum on Istock, but even so this is way below par performance of new images and series.  Even the ones that were DL'd right away as they came through the newly approved queue don't seem to have gotten any noticeable bump and haven't collected additional sales.  

Kind of makes me wonder why I am bothering to upload.  Anyone else experiencing the same?

This may not be what you want to hear but looking at your images some of them lack authenticity

The disabled wife is walking in pictures just a couple of rows up.

The lab scenes look contrived, with juxtaposed beakers of bright liquids and a microscope on what looks like a kitchen work surface

On another note senior financial advisor does not have pension or retirement as a keyword

I think these may have sold in the past but now the standards are higher and there are a lot of photographers with phenomenal attention to detail that you have to compete with.

It may be a summer slow down but it is all an elevation of standards.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Kone on June 14, 2010, 07:56
I used to do landscapes/landmarks and models but inspired by Kone's port, I started to shoot objects/body parts/concepts in lightbox the past week, with a more unusual touch, like this ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=55104688[/url]) and this ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-55104709/stock-photo-sitting-duckling-or-gosling-dressed-in-medical-facial-mask-with-its-beak-wide-open-and-waving-its.html[/url]).


Hey, thanks FD :-[ ;D
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: davidm on June 14, 2010, 08:14
Supply is simply outstripping the increase in demand.

It's going to get worse too. At the current rate of growth the Big 3 agencies will probably double the size of their collections in the next two years but I doubt that demand and/or prices will double in the same timescale. I think it highly likely that earnings-per-image will decrease substantially for most of us.

Agree. Furthermore, the simple economy rules say that over-supply on a highly competitive open market should cause the prices drop.
Are we facing the nanostock ages?
Until there is no more demand the revenues will go down, year by year.
Can we create a demand? Probably yes, we can.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 14, 2010, 10:16
Thanks for the responses.   Looks like this is a pretty universal phenomenon then.  Never sure when things like this crop up if it is me or if it is a trend.  

Thanks also Michealo for taking the time to criticize my images.  Guess the bottom line is that I have to make do with the models and locations available to me.  Sometimes the same people have to be portrayed as "disabled" and "abled".  

Similarly, I don't know anyone who works in a lab, so if I want to shoot a lab concept I have to build it in my studio from scratch.  Maybe improvised models and settings aren't going to be good enough going forward, but that will affect nearly all micro contributors, not just me.  

Also, strangely, similar older images continue to sell, despite the same types of criticisms being true of them.  ???
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: cathyslife on June 14, 2010, 10:31
Thanks also Michealo for taking the time to criticize my images.  Guess the bottom line is that I have to make do with the models and locations available to me.  Sometimes the same people have to be portrayed as "disabled" and "abled".

I personally don't see the problem with using the same model as abled or disabled. Raymond Burr played Ironsides and was in a wheelchair, and yet played in many other movies and shows where he walked. Models (and actors) assume the role they are assigned.

I took a look at my downloads so far for June, and many more of the downloads are older images. There are newer images being downloaded, but the percentage of older images is greater.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: michealo on June 14, 2010, 10:46
<snip> but that will affect nearly all micro contributors, not just me.  

Also, strangely, similar older images continue to sell, despite the same types of criticisms being true of them.  ???

I think the old images sell well due to best match placing but that newer images have to be spectacular to compete.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: stockastic on June 14, 2010, 10:55
I'm fairly new and a small player but maybe that makes me a valid sample of current conditions.

 I started about 18 months ago and the story has been basically that earnings went steadily down as my portfolio increased and my images improved.  As I said earlier, most of the sales are from a few that I did fairly early, that seemed to catch on and build some ranking.  Nothing I've submitted in the last couple of months has done anything. 

I had no real expectations at the start. and I made a few bucks along the way.  I've now quit doing microstock, but would be happy to resume if some new channel or business model appears.  All my images sell now and then, but they're never going to be blockbusters. At 25 cents a download, it just isn't worth doing.

I should probably quit posting here, because I'm no longer an active microstocker.   So I'll shut up now. :)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 14, 2010, 10:59
I'm fairly new and a small player but maybe that makes me a valid sample of current conditions.

 <snip>

I should probably quit posting here, because I'm no longer an active microstocker.   So I'll shut up now. :)

Hope you don't quit posting.  As you said, you are a valid sample of current conditions. 

If only the people (are there any?) who are delighted with the state of microstock post then we will have a very skewed picture of what's going on.  Not to mention that others of us who are experiencing the same will be even more frustrated... ;)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PowerDroid on June 14, 2010, 11:09
I'm fairly new and a small player but maybe that makes me a valid sample of current conditions.

 I started about 18 months ago and the story has been basically that earnings went steadily down as my portfolio increased and my images improved.  As I said earlier, most of the sales are from a few that I did fairly early, that seemed to catch on and build some ranking.  Nothing I've submitted in the last couple of months has done anything. 

I had no real expectations at the start. and I made a few bucks along the way.  I've now quit doing microstock, but would be happy to resume if some new channel or business model appears.  All my images sell now and then, but they're never going to be blockbusters. At 25 cents a download, it just isn't worth doing.

I should probably quit posting here, because I'm no longer an active microstocker.   So I'll shut up now. :)

I've also been doing ms for about 18 months, so maybe I'm another valid "newbie" sample like stocktastic.  However, my results are quite different.  My RPI has been constant since day 1.  My old stuff sells, and my new stuff sells.  I have been experiencing a dip the past few months like everyone else, and I'm concerned about whether it's a larger trend or just the summer slump. For what it's worth, my 2010 seems to be following the same pattern as my 2009, according to my data.  Great March, awful April, May is back to March level, and June shows slight growth on May.  Looking at the four months on a chart is uninspiring as it looks fairly flat, but I'll keep chugging along!
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: cthoman on June 14, 2010, 11:32
Hmm... It could be a summer slowdown, but I can't really blame it on new images. Out of my last 20 downloads, 6 were first time downloads (It may be more than 20 though because of the way the downloads are listed). In the argument against a summer slowdown, FT and DT are doing pretty well for me this month.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: stockastic on June 14, 2010, 11:34
I'll keep reading the forum now and then to follow any changes.

I should make clear that what really discouraged me wasn't so much the actual commissions as the observation that things were steadily going downhill.   By the time I got to 125, I was still making just what I made with 25.    So why invest serious time and effort learning to do microstock, if it's a declining business with no bottom in sight?  

I wouldn't advise anyone to start microstock now unless they felt they had a good supply of ideas that would sell in big numbers AND were cheap to produce - and obviously it's tough to satisfy both requirements.  There is no point in doing any sort of 'niche' images that would sell a few times, because there's only one pricing structure, and it's oriented to high volume.  

Maybe if you have your setup - lighting, backgrounds, props, locations, models - all in place, have made your investments, can do the technical part in your sleep, and can just keep running those ethnic models through the gamut of business, medical and lifestyle poses - you can make some money.  That's not me unfortunately.
Obviously some people have a much better plan than I did.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on June 14, 2010, 11:35
It's very hard, particularly for a non-factory, low volume producer like me, to look at a few months of uploads and see a trend one way or another. However, I do see a lot of positive things for me - but those could be a function of the fact that I have not been as successful as some of the other contributors - like lisafx - so my great month is her horrible one, if you see what I mean.

March this year was my all-time high water mark, but there were a couple of additional things that seemed much more encouraging.

-March 2010 beat the prior November (Nov is always my biggest month, typically with Dec #2 and Oct #3) which hasn't happened before
-May 2010 became my #2 month ever - didn't beat March, but did do better than Oct-Dec last year)
-I do find new images take a while to sell, but I have had a good showing (I think) for files uploaded this year. I looked at my last 100 sales and 21 were from uploads in 2010 and 35 from 2009 uploads (my portfolio goes back to fall 2004)

A handful of Vetta images can make a nice boost to income - I don't make a focused effort to shoot for Vetta, but if I were able to, I'd expect that to make a huge difference to income.

Things are a bit slower (first week of June especially with the holidays), but not dramatically so.

I'm cautiously optimistic...
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 14, 2010, 11:45
Thanks for weighing in JoAnn.  I would say your trends are quite legitimate irrespective of volume.  You have been at this a long time and are obviously someone who pays attention.  :)

I am curious - are your download numbers following the same trend as your royalty numbers?  The reason I ask is because I am wondering how much istock's new exclusive pricing is affecting your trends. 

I would love to get some idea how much the various exclusive pricing schemes are affecting income trends.  It would be useful to know if there is a significant cost to remaining independent. 
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: stockastic on June 14, 2010, 11:48
It would be useful to know if there is a significant cost to remaining independent. 

But SS doesn't have exclusives.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on June 14, 2010, 12:08

I am curious - are your download numbers following the same trend as your royalty numbers?  The reason I ask is because I am wondering how much istock's new exclusive pricing is affecting your trends. 
I would love to get some idea how much the various exclusive pricing schemes are affecting income trends.  It would be useful to know if there is a significant cost to remaining independent. 

My downloads are up over the prior year (I went exclusive in August 2008 so that's an IS to IS comparison) but not by as big a percentage as my $$.

So for example, May 2010, DLs were up 23% over May 2009 but $$ were up $73%. For April 2010 DLs up 35% $$ up 134%

Exclusive plus plays no part in this as I haven't put any images into it (there are 3 Vetta rejects that got in automatically but they rarely sell anyway). I have a small number of Vetta images and obviously the higher prices there make a big difference.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lefty on June 14, 2010, 12:36
lisafx, for me IS selling only older stuff, same picture get regular download.
Can I say too, permis, only Shutterstock is up up up for me. Across board all other down down down. I am happy I am with Shutterstock, phew !
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: gostwyck on June 14, 2010, 12:47

So for example, May 2010, DLs were up 23% over May 2009 but $$ were up $73%. For April 2010 DLs up 35% $$ up 134%


Great * results Jo Ann but they do have to be taken in the context that you also added about 50% more images to your port in the last year.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Neustock Media on June 14, 2010, 12:57
The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.

Just my two cents.

George
Yes, "factories" have increased, and while Yuri just touched the best selling themes, some of the new ones have gone afeter mid and even low selling themes too. Often, they limit themselves to reshoot what already sells, with more means, equipment and proficiency. Not telling names, of course, but there are some "factory" portfolios where you can't find the tiniest spark of originality.

A diploma from YuriUniversity doesn't pay what it used to ;) .

Very true!
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 14, 2010, 13:03

So for example, May 2010, DLs were up 23% over May 2009 but $$ were up $73%. For April 2010 DLs up 35% $$ up 134%


This is really quite impressive IMO.  Considering independents with similar track records (at least those posting) seem to be reporting stagnation or drops from last year's totals.  Makes me wonder if by staying independent I backed the wrong horse...?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on June 14, 2010, 13:29

So for example, May 2010, DLs were up 23% over May 2009 but $$ were up $73%. For April 2010 DLs up 35% $$ up 134%


Great  results Jo Ann but they do have to be taken in the context that you also added about 50% more images to your port in the last year.
I don't think it's quite that high (I added 730-something in 2009) but around that.

I'm assuming that everyone else who's complaining of decreasing downloads year over year also added to their portfolio. Obviously if that's not the case then my numbers suck. Or if I added a bigger percentage than other people, then that would make a difference too.

There's all sorts of variables we can't control for - I bought a 5D Mk II in January 2009 and so I've had XXXL files available since then (previously L was my biggest offering except for panoramas). I have perhaps improved a bit over the time I've been a contributor.

Then there's the luck of the draw - my current best seller wasn't a hugely elaborate production although it did involve stitching 3 macro shots together. I still can't predict accurately which shots will sell and which won't. I could just be an anomaly and indicative of nothing other than my own income.

I just thought FWIW I'd add one more data point to the discussion.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Neustock Media on June 14, 2010, 14:09
We are find the same worrying trend with our new uploads too. Sales peaked this year in july and despite adding a great deal of new content we are seeing declines in DLs and the new content is not getting the sales it should.

Why?

I think a mixture of the following:

A stronger than usual summer slump.

The decrease in value of the euro versus the dollar

The massive increase in very high quality very similar content from contributors such as lalfor and pixdeluxe, although I notice their new content is suffering the same problems.

Istocks declining market share, which is being caused by the confusing stratification of their prices. We now have 3 separate prices for exclusive content: regular exclusive, exclusive plus & vetta. I think the more budget conscious buyer is seeing this for the blatant profit increasing stategy that this is and is taking their business elsewhere.


Just my two cents.


George

George am I correct in thinking you were involved in Stockbyte?

Yep from 1997 to 2006, director of photography and primary photographer.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 14, 2010, 14:11
... and you didn't even have to spend $1000 to go to the UK:

http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock (http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Neustock Media on June 14, 2010, 14:16
... and you didn't even have to spend $1000 to go to the UK:

[url]http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock[/url] ([url]http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock[/url])


FYI Sean, Ireland is a Republic and not part of the UK, but its a common error.

G
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: michealo on June 14, 2010, 14:18
... and you didn't even have to spend $1000 to go to the UK:

[url]http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock[/url] ([url]http://www.veoelmundo.com/photography-blog/future-microstock[/url])


Dublin isn't in the United Kingdom, and hasn't been for some time :-)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 14, 2010, 14:23
I was too lazy to type "Ireland", and look what happens...
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: RacePhoto on June 14, 2010, 15:41
The microstock bubble has quietly burst. If you have a mature portfolio and your earnings peaked in March you may never see those sort of numbers again. We'll have to wait for Sept/Oct/Nov to find out though.
+1

Agreed but part of the contributor problem is that there are many more choices for buyers, so the piece of the pie is getting smaller and smaller. The agency may be selling images just fine and growing. Since the question is IS not to pick on them, but just the figures. 6.2 million images. That allows for many more buyer choices.

Here's something else to consider.

IS Contributors, rough numbers at the end of each year. (new)

2003 = 2145
2004 = 4082 (1937)
2005 = 8409 (4327)
2006 = 15325 (6916)
2007 = 21648 (6323)
2008 = 28019 (6371)
2009 = 29426 (1407)

2010 looks like there will be less new growth in image producers, as happened in 2009. The supply of images hasn't slowed, plus the quality is better.

But what I was looking at for "piece of the pie" is the number of people supplying images doubled every year for the first four years and then once more from 2006 to 2008. That's some growth.

I may not call it bursting the bubble as much as simply leveling off and stabilizing, the fast growth has ended. The competition for each download keeps getting tougher and tougher.

From my perspective we will see more elimination of non-viable sites and agencies in 2010. More closings, more of the market going to the survivors. The growth period has ended, it's down to business and stability.

SS will soon have 12 million images, 13 million by the end of the year. If the demand is the same, or growing at a slower rate, that means less sales per individual. AKA smaller piece of the pie. We might not see future sales improving like the past, but may find that an even level of sales can be maintained.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: brookefuller on June 14, 2010, 15:53
lisafx, for me IS selling only older stuff, same picture get regular download.
Can I say too, permis, only Shutterstock is up up up for me. Across board all other down down down. I am happy I am with Shutterstock, phew !

I am with you!  Last month SS was over half of my earning. 
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: crazychristina on June 14, 2010, 16:39
I can't speak for sites other than istock where I'm exclusive, but I think the contributions of new contributors is negligible. Growth in the library is coming from growth in established portfolios. I'm much more likely to see a contributor reach diamond than to see a base contributor make bronze these days. With the tiny upload cap, poor exposure, and relative lack of hot sellers it's amazing that any new contributor makes it to the point where they can get serious on istock.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 14, 2010, 17:42
I can't speak for sites other than istock where I'm exclusive, but I think the contributions of new contributors is negligible. Growth in the library is coming from growth in established portfolios. I'm much more likely to see a contributor reach diamond than to see a base contributor make bronze these days. With the tiny upload cap, poor exposure, and relative lack of hot sellers it's amazing that any new contributor makes it to the point where they can get serious on istock.

Interesting point Avril.  That also may account for the numbers Racephoto gave.  There seems to be a sharp falloff of new contributors in 2009.  Perhaps that is due to barriers such as ever stricter upload limits, tighter image standards, and doubling the rate to get to exclusivity. 

Still, even those of us with established portfolios seem to be chasing after a shrinking pie.  On all sites, not just Istock. 

Difference is my newer images seem to be selling on other sites.  For example I have sold more new images (May & June) on Fotolia than on IS, even though my sales volume there is about a third the number of DL's I get on Istock. 

There is definitely something going on with new images and it seems to be unique to IS, at least by my stats. 
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: mlwinphoto on June 14, 2010, 18:58
Well, I'm relatively new to iStock (less than 2 years) and have a small port (93 images.....can't seem to get past the concept of selling images so cheaply) so take my stats with a grain of salt.  I've uploaded 35 new ones this year which have accounted for only 7 of my measly 56 sales in 2010.  Small sample but obviously the older are outselling the newer.  I shoot primarily nature which doesn't sell very well anyway but my results so far this year seem to mirror yours (on a much smaller scale). 

Fortunately, and why I don't know, the first quarter of this year was the best in RM sales I've had in the last 4 years.....
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on June 14, 2010, 19:10
IS Contributors, rough numbers at the end of each year. (new)
2003 = 2145
2004 = 4082 (1937)
2005 = 8409 (4327)
2006 = 15325 (6916)
2007 = 21648 (6323)
2008 = 28019 (6371)
2009 = 29426 (1407)

Pretty interesting stats. I wonder what happened in 2009? I doubt the flood of new applications slowed down. Did Istock get that much more picky?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: pancaketom on June 14, 2010, 19:18
at IS, 1 of my last 20 was from this year. 13 were  from 2008 or older, leaving 6 for 2009. (there might be some overlap due to how they report).  I am always pleasantly surprised when an image under a month old sells at IS, it is so rare for me. I think starting a week late hurts for their best match, but I could be wrong.  May and June were good months at IS in 2009 for me, in 2010 Mar was good. This month is looking pretty weak so far. My port is up nearly 50% in that time though.  

Interesting numbers of new contributors at IS. I suspect now it would be tough to start w/ a 4 mp p&s as I did. Then again there are a lot of dslrs out there too. Curiously enough, those early pictures that I am guessing would never get me in or get accepted now continue to sell and sell.

--=Tom
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on June 14, 2010, 20:26
The stats about total number of contributors are hugely misleading. I don't have the data to back this up for IS, but I'd bet that only a very small portion of the total are active contributors and only a small portion of those have a good size portfolio and any significant amount of sales.

A few years back some of us looked at what portion of DT contributors had more than 1,000 images and more than a few thousand sales (there was a specific number, I just don't recall it). It was a few hundred out of the many thousands total. Similarly BigStock at one point had a list of contributors you could sort by portfolio, and more than half had less than 5 images (again, my recollection could be off - it could have been less than 3, but the general point is the same).

This isn't to say that people who contribute 50 images and stop don't count (I think the sites love the folks who never reach payout), but that when there's an article about how much money you can make in microstock, a rush of people sign up, but most get bored or discouraged or something and just walk away.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: red on June 15, 2010, 00:18
I've always suspected that (some) agencies apply lower standards to new contributor's images (they say they don't) just to get them hooked. I notice new images that I don't think are up to par being added daily. Those contributors are then prolific on the message boards asking the kinds of questions that indicate that they are novices or in this just for smiles. They have a few images that friends and family think are wonderful so they give it a try only to be discouraged when their next 10 images or so are declined. They constantly ask why their images are being rejected and can't understand what they are doing wrong because that first image or 2 was accepted right away. Further evidence of a true novice is that their keywords are not well thought out. This is a money maker for the establishment as these images may be downloaded a few times (times many new contributors) but not enough for the hobby contributors to reach a payout.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: joingated on June 15, 2010, 04:30
Regarding those interesting stats about contributors acceptance... I applied in Jan 2009 and got in 6 months later for vectors, it was quite hard, I found photos acceptance ok and got in relatively quickly. But istocks vector policy is very difficult to guess, there are a lot of rejections for 'this isnt what we are after', a tricky one as Ive never once had it for photos and my vectors sell twice as well as photos. The only certainty is that they like very intricate vectors and icons!

But back to the topic I haven't found that new images take ages to sell, but i seem to be in the minority as am experiencing an upturn at istock of about 50% month on month for the past few months and istock is coming close to shutterstock now for me, with a portfolio there I guess of a few hundred (way off of the other sites, about 1750) Vectors continue to outsell photos for me 2 to 1 I'd say.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: PowerDroid on June 15, 2010, 08:51
Pretty interesting stats. I wonder what happened in 2009? I doubt the flood of new applications slowed down. Did Istock get that much more picky?

I went through the review process several times in 2009 and when I finally got accepted late in the year, my images started to sell very well.   It suggests that they're being EXTREMELY picky... they're keeping out contributors who would otherwise be making them very good money.  But I'm also a buyer, so the message I get from this is that IS is serious about quality... much more so than the other sites.

As for new images not selling... I have noticed from my start at IS that new images take a while to get noticed, for whatever reason.  Even my best sellers saw little action in their first few weeks.  I see no difference today.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: RacePhoto on June 15, 2010, 13:05
The stats about total number of contributors are hugely misleading. I don't have the data to back this up for IS, but I'd bet that only a very small portion of the total are active contributors and only a small portion of those have a good size portfolio and any significant amount of sales.

A few years back some of us looked at what portion of DT contributors had more than 1,000 images and more than a few thousand sales (there was a specific number, I just don't recall it). It was a few hundred out of the many thousands total. Similarly BigStock at one point had a list of contributors you could sort by portfolio, and more than half had less than 5 images (again, my recollection could be off - it could have been less than 3, but the general point is the same).

This isn't to say that people who contribute 50 images and stop don't count (I think the sites love the folks who never reach payout), but that when there's an article about how much money you can make in microstock, a rush of people sign up, but most get bored or discouraged or something and just walk away.

First thing that comes to mind is the Contributor Charts software is not picking up new users as fast as it did when it was installed?

According to the IS front page
Total files 6972921
Waiting approval 46196

According to iStock DE 6.216.442 photos, as of June 15th. In the past it was closer.

Gold or Higher members 6% = 1712
Silver = 2839
Bronze = 7356 (300 DLs)
----- 40% above -----
Base = 17540 (the other 60%)

People who have not reached payout yet, 10761 or 36%. That doesn't mean they won't or can't or that new users aren't adding new files and merging up into the ranks. Just a number representing that over 1/3rd of all contributors have never received a cent for their work. I used 60 DLs as the rough point where non-exclusive people will have $100 in sales.

About views for new files. I found that I got 20-30 views per month for new images uploaded in 2010 on IS. Some other sites, I haven't had that many views in two or more years. I'm happy with getting views and at least someone might buy an image, because they see them.  :)  3000 similar photos in the search, which may mean something if you are competing against more or less similars for views? Woman headset about 7000, sliced tomato 9000, Sliced/Chopped/Dice Vegetables (CV) 17,000, Woman Phone 26,400!  ;) One shot that sells on SS was rejected by IS. Only 49 competing images in the search. I guess I can re-shoot that one?

Some people have suggested that I become an IS exclusive. Problem is I like SS which brings in equal bottom line dollars per month. Commissions are nice for statistics, just like RPI and BME and a bunch of others that don't go into the bank, but SS brings income. Also one RF sale on Alamy 2010, for a large scenic panorama equaled 2009 on IS or SS. I won't give up Alamy for the IS exclusive boost.

If I haven't mentioned this through hints and comments, I'm down to SS and IS, their related agencies for now, and Alamy. This all has to do with views, sales and standards. Yes I can get a flock of my Crapstock ™  accepted on some smaller sites, but it is hardly worth the time or effort when views/sales for good images on those same sites are pathetic. What chance do the cast offs and orphans have? You can read this all as I'm very pleased with continuing on SS and IS.

- xxx -
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Elenathewise on June 15, 2010, 15:34
Hi Lisa, I noticed the same thing with the new images on Istock... Old images that I forgot I even had suddenly sell:-). I guess they are tweaking the search engine again.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 15, 2010, 17:09
Hi Lisa, I noticed the same thing with the new images on Istock... Old images that I forgot I even had suddenly sell:-). I guess they are tweaking the search engine again.

Thanks for weighing in Elena.  You are probably right about the search engine tweaks. Hope the new images see the light of day eventually :)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 16, 2010, 09:55
FWIW I had some contact with exclusives recently who said the same thing is happening to them (new pics not selling), so apparently it is a pretty widespread issue.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: stockastic on June 16, 2010, 10:51
I thnk popularity-based ranking will be the epitaph for microstock.   As with many businesses, these agencies can't resist the temptation to mortgage their future for short-term profit.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: RacePhoto on June 16, 2010, 21:36
I thnk popularity-based ranking will be the epitaph for microstock.   As with many businesses, these agencies can't resist the temptation to mortgage their future for short-term profit.

Well at least there's some mystery left in the system.

Two images of mine, similar keywords except a very few, searched for the two main words, one comes up on page two (3 sales/133 views), the other on page four (7/147).

Here's the interesting part. The one that shows second has more sales and views and they were both uploaded on the same day in the same batch.

Something other than popularity = views or sales, or age, is driving the second image towards the front? No review rank either. One of the two keywords is 5th on the image that shows first and 6th on the one that shows second. Second keyword is 3rd on both. That would lead me to believe that word order of keywords is something that counts on IS matches in a search.

I suppose I could play with another image and put the two same words, as 1st and 2nd, in the correct order and test further.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: vonkara on June 16, 2010, 22:01

Something other than popularity = views or sales, or age, is driving the second image towards the front? No review rank either. One of the two keywords is 5th on the image that shows first and 6th on the one that shows second. Second keyword is 3rd on both. That would lead me to believe that word order of keywords is something that counts on IS matches in a search.
It's quite known that the IS best match work a lot with sales/views ratio, mixed with the download per month number and the keywords popularity (keyword your image have been downloaded with). That one show at the top of the list of keywords everyone can see in the browsing page. Normally 1 download / 10 views give you a quite good best match... with particular keywords lol (best match mystery)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Danicek on June 17, 2010, 02:39
^^^ I thought IS weights the keywords based on with what keywords the image was found/bought bumping that image up in searches based on that keyword (i.e. a relevancy factor).
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: lisafx on June 17, 2010, 08:40
^^^ I thought IS weights the keywords based on with what keywords the image was found/bought bumping that image up in searches based on that keyword (i.e. a relevancy factor).

That is my understanding too.

Still, kind of difficult to understand how that would have affected the sort order of the two images Race is seeing...?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Danicek on June 17, 2010, 09:07
^^^
The image that is higher has higher rating related to the two keywords he used for the searching because it was bought after someone searched with one of these or both of these words? This could put the image before the one with more downloads/views/age ratio if those more downloads on the other image were with different words that those he is using for his test. Just a guess...
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: cthoman on June 17, 2010, 09:24
^^^ I thought IS weights the keywords based on with what keywords the image was found/bought bumping that image up in searches based on that keyword (i.e. a relevancy factor).
That's what "the man" wants you to believe. The truth is much more sinister.  Now if you'll excuse me, I have some tinfoil hats to make. ;)
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Danicek on June 17, 2010, 09:48
^^^ I thought IS weights the keywords based on with what keywords the image was found/bought bumping that image up in searches based on that keyword (i.e. a relevancy factor).
That's what "the man" wants you to believe. The truth is much more sinister.  Now if you'll excuse me, I have some tinfoil hats to make. ;)

Are they all green with antennas on their heads? :]
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: vonkara on June 17, 2010, 10:11
By keyword popularity, I meant by what keywords the image have been bought, yes. But it's not the only factor that's pretty sure. The views/download is one I noticed. Still it's just my observation, the best match change often
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 17, 2010, 10:19
Even if the algorithm for best match didn't change, the sort would still change based on new puchases, new images, what was viewed, keyword changes, etc.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: TheDman on July 24, 2010, 14:46
Hey all,

I know this is old thread alert, but I've been noticing this trend for several months. In fact, I found this particular thread by googling "istockphoto new files don't sell", just to see if anyone else was talking about it. Sure enough. Not only do my meager, once-in-a-while uploads no longer sell, but I've been observing portfolios of several top contributors who usually produce consistent sellers, and the trend is the same with all of them: files uploaded after about Feb 2010 are DOA.

Some quick analysis makes me question if simple market oversaturation is the issue. If that were the case, then old files would suffer as new files cannibalize their sales resulting in a general spreading out of the wealth between new and old files, but this isn't happening. Old files seem to be clipping along as they always have, while new stuff just isn't getting so much as a sniff. I was just browsing a portfolio of a high-volume contributor. He has several flames on files he uploaded as recently as this January, however the biggest seller among files he uploaded after February has a mere 20 downloads, with most having 0- 5 sales. I can't imagine the market got that much more oversaturated between January and February.

Conversely, it's hard to blame search positioning for the problem either. A few of my new files rank very well in the best match, and are getting views but still no sales. It used to be unheard of if one of my files got over 100 views with no sales. Now the norm for my new files is 200-400 views and no sales.

Why views aren't translating into sales is mystifying, as is the February 'extinction event'. My hottest seller right now is a file that I uploaded last October, and if anything it is still picking up steam. I suspect that had I uploaded that same image in March of this year, it would have less than 5 sales.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: vonkara on July 24, 2010, 15:04

Some quick analysis makes me question if simple market oversaturation is the issue. If that were the case, then old files would suffer as new files cannibalize their sales resulting in a general spreading out of the wealth between new and old files, but this isn't happening. Old files seem to be clipping along as they always have, while new stuff just isn't getting so much as a sniff.

The dilution effect is caused by heavy uploads such as 50,000 files added in one week or so. That make that newest files unable to get any attention and that mean no higher best match rank. The old files who sold enough to get a higher best match rank, such as the downloads per month show, are still selling as they are in front in searches.

I would say you are better to shoot what haven't been, but there is no hole anymore in the collection IMO. Since this is only a contributors problem and the agencies still make money, nothing will be made to change this. Btw I think it's not only a Istock issue
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: FD on July 24, 2010, 16:29
I know this is old thread alert, but I've been noticing this trend for several months. In fact, I found this particular thread by googling "istockphoto new files don't sell", just to see if anyone else was talking about it. Sure enough. Not only do my meager, once-in-a-while uploads no longer sell, but I've been observing portfolios of several top contributors who usually produce consistent sellers, and the trend is the same with all of them: files uploaded after about Feb 2010 are DOA.
Thanks for your observations and welcome to the MSG. I stopped uploading twice to IS since 2005 and till now, half of my sales are still from before 2007. I resumed uploading in 2009, and the things that start to sell now are those of 2009, with an odd brand new shot in the list. The secret of sales of course is search engine position, not that much quality. Since the best match has been changed regularly in the past, I don't care any more and I just upload, hoping that the best match will change again.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: Phil on July 24, 2010, 17:30
Hi Lisa, I noticed the same thing with the new images on Istock... Old images that I forgot I even had suddenly sell:-). I guess they are tweaking the search engine again.

Thanks for weighing in Elena.  You are probably right about the search engine tweaks. Hope the new images see the light of day eventually :)

me too, for the last few months I've had a heap of old images suddenly pop back up
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: TheDman on July 24, 2010, 18:32

Some quick analysis makes me question if simple market oversaturation is the issue. If that were the case, then old files would suffer as new files cannibalize their sales resulting in a general spreading out of the wealth between new and old files, but this isn't happening. Old files seem to be clipping along as they always have, while new stuff just isn't getting so much as a sniff.

The dilution effect is caused by heavy uploads such as 50,000 files added in one week or so.

That was happening long before this February though, so I still can't figure out what changed then that is causing this. My top seller right now from 10-09 got almost no sales in it's first month, then gathered steam, so I don't think it's a case of new files needing to take off instantly or they get lost. I just don't see any new files taking off at all.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: thesentinel on July 25, 2010, 06:01
A look at this weeks most popular may indicate otherwise, and may also 'refudiate' the exclusive best match bias too!
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: TheDman on July 25, 2010, 09:41
This week's most popular are all older files, with the exception of the top one, which was uploaded 2/25/10, right around the cutoff line. I'm not sure when in February something happened, but it really seems to be about then.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: nicmac on July 26, 2010, 15:01
I have been drawn to this thread because of google as well. I'm experiencing the same thing, with my new photos selling very well and fast on SS but infuriatingly badly on IS, with identical descriptions and keywording. My good sellers from 2008 and 2009 are still going strong, but it seems near impossible to have a photo soar to a good seller status with the new material. I'm still hesitating over going exclusive, I admit to being attracted with the vetta pricing and commission raise for all sales, but with SS and TS sales soaring and IStock being stagnant, although a top earner, well.. err.. I'm hesitating even more. Is the market definitely moving towards subscription based services?
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: sharpshot on July 26, 2010, 16:39
When I started 4 years ago, some new images went in to lightboxes and started selling fairly quickly but that changed a long time ago.  I don't think it is anything to do with saturation, it was a deliberate best match policy change.  I thought best match mark II was more stable and was slightly kinder to new images but that seems to of changed recently.  Istock earnings are still much more volatile than shutterstock for me.
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: vonkara on October 20, 2010, 11:35
A small pop up for this thread... I see a LOT of portfolio with pages of 0 download images. From what I see, some photographers keep shooting pages of new images with 0 to 20 downloads by pages.

I often see up to 7 pages and more (120 images) which result in a couple of dollars per page. I wonder how this can end in profits.

There is also this thread
http://www.microstockgroup.com/dreamstime-com/stock-'factories'-slowing-uploads/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/dreamstime-com/stock-'factories'-slowing-uploads/)


It look like there is a need to make research before shooting, or you end working for 3$ an hour...
Title: Re: New Images DOA on Istock?
Post by: helix7 on October 20, 2010, 14:48
I've seen this happening myself, but only at iStock. My earnings there are in the toilet. But lately I've been seeing a resurgence at SS, and some growth in some of the smaller agencies.