MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: ShadySue on November 18, 2013, 18:31
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Announced here and in the newsletter:
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=357600&page=1 (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=357600&page=1)
Hope keywords are going to be inspected at upload again, but there are so many thousands of images with appalling keywords, it'll be an uphill struggle.
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Thanks for posting - received in the newsletter too.
The same old ahhh's ohhh's on the forum, but there is nothing new :-)
The wrong keyword abbreviation still isn't fixed, however I really expected that this system receives an update...
(Example: cutter - Cutting (Moving Activity) | Cutter Insect Repellant (Insect Repellant); How do I mean cutter = work tool?)
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I wonder if they will do anything about the spamming, or the files that have been keyword wikied already.
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Thanks for posting - received in the newsletter too.
The same old ahhh's ohhh's on the forum, but there is nothing new :-)
The wrong keyword abbreviation still isn't fixed, however I really expected that this system receives an update...
(Example: cutter - Cutting (Moving Activity) | Cutter Insect Repellant (Insect Repellant); How do I mean cutter = work tool?)
I've never heard about a cutter, but if you mean this sort of thing:
http://www.cuttingtoolsmanufacturer.com/premium-wood-working-cutting-tools.html (http://www.cuttingtoolsmanufacturer.com/premium-wood-working-cutting-tools.html), in theory, you could keyword 'groove cutter', 'angle cutter' etc, but if these aren't in the CV, there's a bug which currently prevents new keyword phrases from being accepted, even as what they bizarrely call 'legacy' terms.
FWIW, we call the machines eg. angle grinders and the 'blades' are 'discs'.
If you mean something else by cutter, I'm sure someone more versed in DIY will be able to help.
Also, assuming you're not banned from the forums and site mail, you can either post on the keywording forum or SM ducksandwich to ask for a word or phrase to be added.
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I wonder if they will do anything about the spamming, or the files that have been keyword wikied already.
I've suggested giving an incentive for people to wiki keywords, e.g. 20c for wiki-ing correctly (identifying a file which needs corrections) but a fine of e.g. $1 for falsely identifying, to avoid malpractice and timewasting.
That would get rid of wrong nouns at least, which would be a fantastic start.
Probably people wouldn't wiki the more subjective words, although many spammers just write any old rubbish in their keywords. In more generous mood, I'll assume laziness rather than malice, and imagine they have a batch of very varied subject matter and somehow keyword them in Bridge or LR all with the same keywords then upload them without any mental engagement.
(My best keywording story I haven't told for a while. A bloke had a bird photo which had the bird, which was really the only subject of the photo, misidentified. I emailled him really sweetly telling him what it was, and got a reply back more or less saying, "Where's the love? You didn't say you liked the image! [1] What do you think is so great about being better than a nine year old?" (the latter totally flummoxed me, but upon enquiry, he had got his 9yo niece to look up the bird for him).
[1] Which wasn't even true, as I had a formula for when I thought it was a genuine mistake, which was something like (years ago, I can't remember exactly) "I just saw your lovely photo titled X. I see you have identified the bird/animal as a Y but it's really a Z", usually with a reference to show the differences."
Gosh, wasn't I nice in those days? See what iS did for me ;)
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The guide looks good. Some interesting info in there.
I didn't see anything new. But I certainly hope it's going to be acted on.
Previous keywording initiatives have never been sustained.
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Announced here and in the newsletter:
[url]http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=357600&page=1[/url] ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=357600&page=1[/url])
Hope keywords are going to be inspected at upload again, but there are so many thousands of images with appalling keywords, it'll be an uphill struggle.
It's too much information for too many people, and there's no interface to implement it.
First off, meta-data about people should be derived from the model releases attached to the image, or in the case of editorial, some sort of click. Relying on 200,000 people to remember the difference between mid-adult and mature-adult, is crazy, let alone imagine the buyer has knowledge of these terms. Buyers don't search on "small group of objects" - ever. Nor "large group of people". But they might use a slider or other interface to indicate the number of whatevers they are looking for. Buyers don't know "directly below", "focus on the foreground", etc. And contributors around the world aren't going to be able to indicate that kind of meta without a consistent visual interface.
"Day In The Life Series" ?
They're still using keywording for something it isn't meant or able to do, across "the crowd".
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What I saw, and never have done in my many landscape and travel shots, is to put "nobody" as a keyword. I must be missing out on thousands of dollars of income with that one mistake!
Steve
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For me to go back to put "nobody" into a thousand images will not happen. I think I recall many years ago the community asked for a tool to do such. The tool was promised and then dropped because of fear of to many people would use it for spam instead of doing good.
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For me to go back to put "nobody" into a thousand images will not happen. I think I recall many years ago the community asked for a tool to do such. The tool was promised and then dropped because of fear of to many people would use it for spam instead of doing good.
Well, you can do it in Deep Meta in about 3 clicks.
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What I saw, and never have done in my many landscape and travel shots, is to put "nobody" as a keyword. I must be missing out on thousands of dollars of income with that one mistake!
Steve
Oh no, everybody knows my sneaky little secret now!
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Well, you can do it in Deep Meta in about 3 clicks.
I use Deepmeta, but hadn't spotted that. I was looking at it just now - how do I add a single new keyword to multiple files? I think that once it is in there, I can select them all and click on the "Send File data to iStock" option. But what is the process for adding a new keyword to many files?
Steve
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Well, you can do it in Deep Meta in about 3 clicks.
I use Deepmeta, but hadn't spotted that. I was looking at it just now - how do I add a single new keyword to multiple files? I think that once it is in there, I can select them all and click on the "Send File data to iStock" option. But what is the process for adding a new keyword to many files?
Steve
Import a new image - any image. Put "nobody" as a keyword. Then copy N paste that image (just keywords, no overwriting) to every image you want the word on. Be careful. There's no going back! Well, you can retrieve info back from iStock if you screw up, but once it's uploaded, you'd have to individually go in and remove.
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Ahhh - can I use a new file, remove all keywords apart from Nobody and then copy that. If I paste to all the others I can deselect "Overwrite" in the options? Then I do that update file data?
steve
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Thanks - I was typing at the same time! Sorry for that
Steve
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It's a great guide to Getty's Controlled Vocabulary as implemented by iStock. Back when I was uploading there I had reverse engineered a lot of this by walking the hierarchy when editing image keywords, and something like this would have saved a ton of time.
However, the whole controlled vocabulary really seems like a buggy whip in the age of automobiles, and for any independent, the worst bind to get yourself in is having any of the istock CV verbiage in your images' metadata. I did for some images (when I was exclusive and thinking I'd be staying that way) and returning the CV-speak to the English that humans use has been a painful lesson.
I think that if you combined Google's approach to search with the visual approach taken by that startup Pixolution (http://www.microstockgroup.com/newby-discussion/new-image-search-fusing-visual-and-keyword-search/) you'd have something really intuitive. Instead of "Front or Back Yard" and "Residential Structure" and ...
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The only contribs who may gain from this new guide are the ones who are 'honest' in their keywording. Looking at the amount of spamming going on this would be the minority of contributors.
I've reported some of the most flagrant instances I've come across but no action has ever been taken. Either iStock doesn't care or can't be bothered due to a lack of manpower.
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The only contribs who may gain from this new guide are the ones who are 'honest' in their keywording. Looking at the amount of spamming going on this would be the minority of contributors.
I've reported some of the most flagrant instances I've come across but no action has ever been taken. Either iStock doesn't care or can't be bothered due to a lack of manpower.
I think people spamming the search aren't gaining much or anything at all on iStock, maybe it works on the sub sites where buyers likely download a few images partly because they already paid for them and they search by newest more often. For iStock good keywording is important, not because bad keywords mess up the search (they can't too much since relevancy is attached to each keyword in the main searches) but because that's the only way to get your images found, any extra information is useful for people trying to make a living at this.
well, maybe they have fixed things, but back when I actually tried to figure out how the search and keywording worked I found I HAD to spam to get my images found on the logical keywords (not always, but on a few of my best sellers). Otherwise the CV would change the obvious logical keyword searches to something else. Maybe this is fixed, but going on everything else I doubt it.
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The only contribs who may gain from this new guide are the ones who are 'honest' in their keywording. Looking at the amount of spamming going on this would be the minority of contributors.
I've reported some of the most flagrant instances I've come across but no action has ever been taken. Either iStock doesn't care or can't be bothered due to a lack of manpower.
I think people spamming the search aren't gaining much or anything at all on iStock, maybe it works on the sub sites where buyers likely download a few images partly because they already paid for them and they search by newest more often. For iStock good keywording is important, not because bad keywords mess up the search (they can't too much since relevancy is attached to each keyword in the main searches) but because that's the only way to get your images found, any extra information is useful for people trying to make a living at this.
well, maybe they have fixed things, but back when I actually tried to figure out how the search and keywording worked I found I HAD to spam to get my images found on the logical keywords (not always, but on a few of my best sellers). Otherwise the CV would change the obvious logical keyword searches to something else. Maybe this is fixed, but going on everything else I doubt it.
Just looking at your most popular images, the top keywords seem to be relevant. I don't think you had to spam, although I see you did do some of that too. Can you point out some cases where you think spamming got you sales?
It seems to be working now - good for them - the 2 files I remember having problems with were the mushroom cloud fireball one and one with a rope loop (since removed).
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Thanks for posting - received in the newsletter too.
The same old ahhh's ohhh's on the forum, but there is nothing new :-)
The wrong keyword abbreviation still isn't fixed, however I really expected that this system receives an update...
(Example: cutter - Cutting (Moving Activity) | Cutter Insect Repellant (Insect Repellant); How do I mean cutter = work tool?)
I've never heard about a cutter, […]
https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cutter&tbs=imgo:1&sout=1
Do you call it "utility knife" in pure english?
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Thanks for posting - received in the newsletter too.
The same old ahhh's ohhh's on the forum, but there is nothing new :-)
The wrong keyword abbreviation still isn't fixed, however I really expected that this system receives an update...
(Example: cutter - Cutting (Moving Activity) | Cutter Insect Repellant (Insect Repellant); How do I mean cutter = work tool?)
I've never heard about a cutter, […]
Seems so... [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_cutter[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_cutter[/url])
[url]https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cutter&tbs=imgo:1&sout=1[/url] ([url]https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cutter&tbs=imgo:1&sout=1[/url])
Do you call it "utility knife" in pure english?
It seems so...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_cutter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_cutter)
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Can you point out some cases where you think spamming got you sales?
I'm not tom, but I have several examples like this:
When Sandwich Tern isn't in the CV (for no obvious reason), if a buyer searches on Sandwich Tern without putting it in quotes, it split to Sandwich and Tern. As some people had already keyworded 'sandwich' and 'tern', there was a result for that search, so it wouldn't be obvious that if they searched "Sandwich Tern" they'd get more results. So, spamming Sandwich (as well as the correct 'tern') is almost essential to get seen.
(Oh, what a lot of misidentied birds there are in that search :'()
Nowadays, in similar non-CV examples, you'd have to do the same even more, because the bug I noted a couple of weeks back whereby trying to add a two (or more) word phrase 'for your own use' hasn't been fixed (as of yesterday), so even searching on the phrase inside quotes won't return the file.
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Thanks for posting - received in the newsletter too.
The same old ahhh's ohhh's on the forum, but there is nothing new :-)
The wrong keyword abbreviation still isn't fixed, however I really expected that this system receives an update...
(Example: cutter - Cutting (Moving Activity) | Cutter Insect Repellant (Insect Repellant); How do I mean cutter = work tool?)
I've never heard about a cutter, […]
https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cutter&tbs=imgo:1&sout=1
Do you call it "utility knife" in pure english?
Personally, I'd call it a Stanley Knife, just like I call our Vacuum cleaner a Hoover (even though it's a Bosch). If it's a box cutter, I'd call it a box cutter.
Never heard of the term 'utility knife', but on Googling, a lot of Stanley knives showed up, so I guess so.
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Nowadays, in similar non-CV examples, you'd have to do the same even more, because the bug I noted a couple of weeks back whereby trying to add a two (or more) word phrase 'for your own use' hasn't been fixed (as of yesterday), so even searching on the phrase inside quotes won't return the file.
Seems fine. Perhaps it is an issue at your end. Eg -
"sandwich tern" (http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/%22sandwich%20tern%22/filetypes/photos,illustrations,video/source/basic#12f4da81)
'sandwich tern' (http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/'sandwich%20tern'/filetypes/photos,illustrations,video/source/basic#fb9bdc)
In terms of the keywords and CV terms you would like added, why not try to work with them towards a positive outcome ? I am sure you would have a lot to add.
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Nowadays, in similar non-CV examples, you'd have to do the same even more, because the bug I noted a couple of weeks back whereby trying to add a two (or more) word phrase 'for your own use' hasn't been fixed (as of yesterday), so even searching on the phrase inside quotes won't return the file.
Seems fine. Perhaps it is an issue at your end. Eg -
"sandwich tern" ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/%22sandwich%20tern%22/filetypes/photos,illustrations,video/source/basic#12f4da81[/url])
'sandwich tern' ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/search/text/'sandwich%20tern'/filetypes/photos,illustrations,video/source/basic#fb9bdc[/url])
In terms of the keywords and CV terms you would like added, why not try to work with them towards a positive outcome ? I am sure you would have a lot to add.
Of course, "sandwich tern" is fine, as it's been a legacy term for years.
It's new (as I said) two word phrases that don't 'stick', over the past couple of weeks, as confirmed by CR, who say they've passed it on to be dealt with. I've seen the length of bugs they have to sort through from months ago, and wouldn't expect it to be top of their list.
As you well know, I'm banned from the forums and sitemail, so have to go via CR.
(http://www.lizworld.com/Sandwich%20tern.jpg)
(http://www.lizworld.com/SandwichTern.jpg)
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I wonder why that news letter has different fonts and sizes? First thing I do when I see an email like that sent to a customer is tell the person who wrote it to clean up their act and email. One font, one size, one color (except when color is needed to emphasize). Same goes for people having signatures in Comic Sans.
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I wonder why that news letter has different fonts and sizes? First thing I do when I see an email like that sent to a customer is tell the person who wrote it to clean up their act and email. One font, one size, one color (except when color is needed to emphasize). Same goes for people having signatures in Comic Sans.
I've only got black (other than links) headlines and body text, though the spacing is 'off'.
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I wonder why that news letter has different fonts and sizes? First thing I do when I see an email like that sent to a customer is tell the person who wrote it to clean up their act and email. One font, one size, one color (except when color is needed to emphasize). Same goes for people having signatures in Comic Sans.
I've only got black (other than links) headlines and body text, though the spacing is 'off'.
Maybe my emailer is not showing it correctly then
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Mine showed up with a variety of font sizes and bolds. Looked very amateurish. It also seemed to launch into a topics randomly without any introduction as if it was notes from a meeting just copy and pasted.
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As you well know, I'm banned from the forums and sitemail, so have to go via CR.
I bet that even now you could quietly rebuild the relationship and reconnect in a positive way if you decided too.
Meanwhile - if you have a list of keywords which you think are going to be useful what's wrong with emailing them in ?
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Inhauscreative gave this piece of advice, which, while correct practice, won't help at the moment:
"when naming something with proper name i.e. "Eagle Crown Beatle" (made it up) list the whole name, add only the individual words if it applies, so it's a picture of an EAGLE CROWN BEATLE, Eagle by itself doesn't work, Crown by itself doesnt work, but Beatle does, so add Eagle Crown Beatle, and Beatle as keywords, but not Eagle and Crown."
Sadly Eagle Crown Beatle won't be searchable in any form if you add it this moment, because of the non-CV, non-legacy bug affecting .
Note the difference between Millionaire Shortbread, which is already a legacy term, and Eagle Crown Beatle, which, of course, isn't. When it offered me the chance to add it 'for my own use', I did so, but the change didn't 'take' (the bug I noticed a couple of weeks ago and was confirmed by CR). Pity the bug happened just before there was a drive of sorts towards better keywording:
(http://www.lizworld.com/ECB.jpg)
Note, no '! in a triangle', which is the indication that the phrase will not be searchable.
NB: I thought this only affected keyword phrases, but I just tested 'spingleplonk' with the same result.
Also watch out for the English language-changing buglet. On Monday I uploaded a file and a friend kindly pointed out an appalling keyword. I was astonished, and upon checking, I discovered that somewhere between my uploading and the file being accepted, my keywords had changed into English (US) so that word had mapped to a totally different meaning. There is no way I'd have missed this while keywording.
Just checked, and a different file which I uploaded yesterday has all its keywords as English (US) except for the species name in Scientific 'Latin', which is listed as English (British) ???, but in this case, no harm ensued.
I just uploaded a file just now, looked carefully and at the point of uploading, the keywords were all tagged English (British), so we'll see whether the buglet has been fixed.