Author Topic: Curiosity (Read 5989 times)

ShadySue · « **on:** July 13, 2012, 12:33 »

2 emails from 'The iStockphoto Team' just in:

"Liz,
We regret to inform you that a refund has been issued for a purchase of your file #3976080:
This is in reference to the file downloaded on 01/31/08. NO ROYALTIES TAKEN. There are a number of reasons why a purchased file may be refunded:
..."

and

"Liz,
We regret to inform you that a refund has been issued for a purchase of your file #4394223:
This is in reference to the file downloaded on 01/31/08. NO ROYALTIES TAKEN. There are a number of reasons why a purchased file may be refunded:
..."

I got such a fright when I saw 2 refund notices in my email inbox, as I got 2 ELs yesterday. My total did not go down, so that's fine, but how incredibly weird.
Later: once I checked the file numbers, I discovered that these were the two files which were ELd yesterday.
I wonder if this is a retrospective payment?

LesHoward · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2012, 14:35 »

You might want to check the upload dates for the two files. It would be interesting to see if they 'sold' the files before you uploaded them.

corepics · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2012, 14:46 »

I've received two similar refund notices with no royalties being removed as well. (earlier this year, concerning downloads, which happened this year as well),

Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

wut · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2012, 14:58 »

Why are you worried, it's clearly stated that no royalties were taken, so no need to check it and wait for your balance to go down in fear. Have a gin and tonic and celebrate, it doesn't happen often with IS. Enjoy your weekend

P.S. Congrats on 2 ELs, I know you were really happy for them, since your sales are not good lately and you're not getting much (any?) ELs lately as well

ffNixx · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2012, 16:03 »

Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46

Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?

ShadySue · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2012, 16:10 »

Quote from: ffNixx on July 13, 2012, 16:03

Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46
Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?

How would we know?
AFAICS, the only way of catching that would be if you found an in-use of a file you'd never sold, that had only ever been on iStock, and you reported it as used without a sale and there was no reasonable explanation. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. Once, someone thought he'd found that, but it turned out it was a Getty sale via V/A, which was reported a few weeks after the sale, as usual.

ShadySue · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2012, 16:59 »

@Les: yes, uploaded in '07.
@wut: Tx, I passed on the G&T, but as I've been working in the garden for some hours today, I treated myself to a huge bowl of icecream, strawberries and raspberries. I know how to live the fast life.

I'm just curious as to whether the buyer had a sudden guilty conscience after three years, or if CE somehow found the unpaid in-use. Though you'd think they'd be pleased to announce that rather than the odd 'refund of no royalties' email.

wut · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2012, 17:30 »

Oooops, I haven't even noticed the date (although it's in red) :s

heywoody · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2012, 18:57 »

It sort of looks like 2 sales were not reported in error (as opposed to deliberately) and that they don't have a suitable boilerplate email to notify the adjustment - based on the fact that the 2 ELs have the same IDs. Do you otherwise have a record of sales for these on 31/1/08?

ShadySue · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2012, 19:13 »

Quote from: heywoody on July 13, 2012, 18:57

It sort of looks like 2 sales were not reported in error (as opposed to deliberately) and that they don't have a suitable boilerplate email to notify the adjustment - based on the fact that the 2 ELs have the same IDs. Do you otherwise have a record of sales for these on 31/1/08?

One of them, with only 11 (12) total sales in nearly 5 years, sold as XS on 29/1/08 and as S on 30/1/08.
The other, with only 10 (11) total sales in nearly 5 years, sold as XS on 29/1/08 and as L on 30/1/08.
I'm sure there's a story there, and hopefully it's all fine now.

Sadstock · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2012, 22:00 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 13, 2012, 16:10

Quote from: ffNixx on July 13, 2012, 16:03
Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46
Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?

How would we know?
AFAICS, the only way of catching that would be if you found an in-use of a file you'd never sold, that had only ever been on iStock, and you reported it as used without a sale and there was no reasonable explanation. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. Once, someone thought he'd found that, but it turned out it was a Getty sale via V/A, which was reported a few weeks after the sale, as usual.

---------------------------------------------------

Another way would be for an audit. Getty permits (or at least they used to) audits once a year per contributor at contributor's expense unless a certain dollar value was found to be inaccurate. I think somebody could make the argument that Istock is Getty so they are entitled to an audit. I bet it would be fascinating to see out that turned out.

Another option would be a mystery shopper
www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/stock-photography-mystery-shopper
I'm not holding my breath on that one.

KarenH · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2012, 07:40 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 13, 2012, 16:10

Quote from: ffNixx on July 13, 2012, 16:03
Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46
Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?
How would we know?
AFAICS, the only way of catching that would be if you found an in-use of a file you'd never sold, that had only ever been on iStock, and you reported it as used without a sale and there was no reasonable explanation. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. Once, someone thought he'd found that, but it turned out it was a Getty sale via V/A, which was reported a few weeks after the sale, as usual.

That happened to me once. Found a photo in use that had never been reported as downloaded, and as I'm exclusive, it had never been uploaded anywhere else. I reported it to CE, got the canned letter, and IIRC, I followed up on it later and found it still there, and had to report it again. And I'm not near home now to check, but I think I will follow up on it when I do get there. There's probably no way of telling if something was an unreported sale or if someone just lifted it off the site (which has happened a few times).

malamus · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:15 »

Are the royalties from ELs much lower now than '08, if so I hope they paid the '08 rate

ffNixx · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:16 »

Quote from: KarenH on July 16, 2012, 07:40

Quote from: ShadySue on July 13, 2012, 16:10
Quote from: ffNixx on July 13, 2012, 16:03
Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46
Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?
How would we know?
AFAICS, the only way of catching that would be if you found an in-use of a file you'd never sold, that had only ever been on iStock, and you reported it as used without a sale and there was no reasonable explanation. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. Once, someone thought he'd found that, but it turned out it was a Getty sale via V/A, which was reported a few weeks after the sale, as usual.

That happened to me once. Found a photo in use that had never been reported as downloaded, and as I'm exclusive, it had never been uploaded anywhere else. I reported it to CE, got the canned letter, and IIRC, I followed up on it later and found it still there, and had to report it again. And I'm not near home now to check, but I think I will follow up on it when I do get there. There's probably no way of telling if something was an unreported sale or if someone just lifted it off the site (which has happened a few times).

What do you mean by "someone just lifted it off the site"? Do you mean hacked into the iStock servers and downloaded the full size file?

Do please report back what you eventually find out about the unsold photo you found in use.

ShadySue · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:30 »

Quote from: malamus on July 16, 2012, 08:15

Are the royalties from ELs much lower now that '08, if so I hope they paied the '08 rate

If they have only just been 'caught out', and I emphasise that's only one possible scenario, I hope they paid the '12 rate.
You can never tell, as it depends on the credit value they paid, e.g. I had a 75 cr EL in April 1'2 which netted me $12, but the lowest $$ I got for any EL in 2008 was $42.21, and I was on a lower %age then. (IIRC we had a 10% boost for ELs then.)

KarenH · « **Reply #15 on:** August 26, 2012, 10:23 »

Quote from: ffNixx on July 16, 2012, 08:16

Quote from: KarenH on July 16, 2012, 07:40
Quote from: ShadySue on July 13, 2012, 16:10
Quote from: ffNixx on July 13, 2012, 16:03
Quote from: corepics on July 13, 2012, 14:46
Perhaps a client demanded a refund on a sale which istock never reported to me in the first place?

Have there ever been sales at iStock that weren't reported?
How would we know?
AFAICS, the only way of catching that would be if you found an in-use of a file you'd never sold, that had only ever been on iStock, and you reported it as used without a sale and there was no reasonable explanation. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. Once, someone thought he'd found that, but it turned out it was a Getty sale via V/A, which was reported a few weeks after the sale, as usual.

That happened to me once. Found a photo in use that had never been reported as downloaded, and as I'm exclusive, it had never been uploaded anywhere else. I reported it to CE, got the canned letter, and IIRC, I followed up on it later and found it still there, and had to report it again. And I'm not near home now to check, but I think I will follow up on it when I do get there. There's probably no way of telling if something was an unreported sale or if someone just lifted it off the site (which has happened a few times).

What do you mean by "someone just lifted it off the site"? Do you mean hacked into the iStock servers and downloaded the full size file?

Do please report back what you eventually find out about the unsold photo you found in use.

By "lifted it off the site", I meant just copied it and used it, not hacked into it. The image is still up there in use, more than a year after being reported (twice) to iStock. It's a watermarked image, never had a download, and the image does not link back to iStockphoto - a realtor uploaded it to her blog. I reported it again, a third time, 13 months after the first report, and never even got a canned response. Not even the auto-acknowledgment.

ffNixx · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2012, 14:45 »

Thanks for the update. If it's a watermarked image on a blog, it's not worth pursuing. That's blogging without a budget, too pathetic to waste time on.

cathyslife · « **Reply #17 on:** August 26, 2012, 15:22 »

Quote from: ffNixx on August 26, 2012, 14:45

Thanks for the update. If it's a watermarked image on a blog, it's not worth pursuing. That's blogging without a budget, too pathetic to waste time on.

You don't have five or ten minutes to send a DMCA letting someone know that it is not OK to steal? I don't consider it a waste of time, I consider it a cost of doing business, just like collecting bad debts or making phone calls to people who owe you money. Only in this case, someone is actually breaking a law. Don't you think that if this practice is left unchecked, people will just continue to steal instead of thinking twice? Not saying anything when you know it's happening is almost like committing the crime yourself.

Come on, take one for the team. Help out. Spend a few minutes every week for the cause!

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Author Topic: Curiosity (Read 5989 times)

ShadySue

LesHoward

corepics

wut

ffNixx

ShadySue

ShadySue

wut

heywoody

ShadySue

Sadstock

KarenH

malamus

ffNixx

ShadySue

KarenH

ffNixx

cathyslife

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