MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 09:56

Title: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 09:56
To many contributors only viewed the Redeemable Credits from there own perspective/sales/portfolios.
When they try to see the bigger picture they wrongly assumed it was greed by Istockphoto that fueled the change.
The money the company now saves, with this new payment method,will be used to bring longevity to the company which in turn serves all our purposes.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cthoman on July 15, 2011, 10:09
To many contributors only viewed the Redeemable Credits from there own perspective/sales/portfolios.
When they try to see the bigger picture they wrongly assumed it was greed by Istockphoto that fueled the change.
The money the company now saves, with this new payment method,will be used to bring longevity to the company which in turn serves all our purposes.

I can't say I really care all that much about the longevity of a company that only wants to pay me 17% of the pie. There doesn't seem to be much of a future there, so I've focused my attention elsewhere.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 15, 2011, 10:11
Thanks for today's random "IMO" post.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cthoman on July 15, 2011, 10:24
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W56GtCNYKUI[/youtube]
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Graffoto on July 15, 2011, 10:31
^^^^^
Pretty much says it all doesn't it.  ;D
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2011, 10:41
Thanks for that - funny!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 10:45
To many contributors only viewed the Redeemable Credits from there own perspective/sales/portfolios.
When they try to see the bigger picture they wrongly assumed it was greed by Istockphoto that fueled the change.
The money the company now saves, with this new payment method,will be used to bring longevity to the company which in turn serves all our purposes.

I can't say I really care all that much about the longevity of a company that only wants to pay me 17% of the pie. There doesn't seem to be much of a future there, so I've focused my attention elsewhere.
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Perry on July 15, 2011, 10:55
cthoman's video said it all...
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2011, 11:02
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.

Ahhh, there it is: the non-exclusives are the culprits. We should have known.

How dare we criticize a company that surprises its contributors with pay cuts?

Of course, we should be thankful and stick our heads up much deeper into IS' @$$. I bet, some already came out on the other end...

P.S. I highly doubt that you actually care that much about IS. Financing a hobby is one thing, making a living is another.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: nruboc on July 15, 2011, 11:08
To many contributors only viewed the Redeemable Credits from there own perspective/sales/portfolios.
When they try to see the bigger picture they wrongly assumed it was greed by Istockphoto that fueled the change.
The money the company now saves, with this new payment method,will be used to bring longevity to the company which in turn serves all our purposes.

I can't say I really care all that much about the longevity of a company that only wants to pay me 17% of the pie. There doesn't seem to be much of a future there, so I've focused my attention elsewhere.
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.

boo hoo
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: helix7 on July 15, 2011, 11:21
To many contributors only viewed the Redeemable Credits from there own perspective/sales/portfolios.
When they try to see the bigger picture they wrongly assumed it was greed by Istockphoto that fueled the change.
The money the company now saves, with this new payment method,will be used to bring longevity to the company which in turn serves all our purposes.

You're assuming that the longevity of the company was ever at risk. If you buy into the whole notion that 80% profit was unsustainable, then yeah, I guess I can see how you might think that the royalty cut was some sort of bet on future growth and would shore up the necessary funds to keep the company going.

I'm not sure why you'd believe that, though.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cthoman on July 15, 2011, 11:25
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.

It may be the opposite. I always thought the reason iStock seemed to bear a large brunt of the criticism is because it was a well liked agency. So, people felt like they were stabbed in the back by their buddy. Fotolia did the same thing 3 times in a row, but there is less complaining about that. I think it is because contributors expect that from FT.  ;D
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 15, 2011, 13:07
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cathyslife on July 15, 2011, 13:18
@cthoman and Lando's deal...

LOL! That is exactly the IS deal!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 13:21
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 13:27
Thanks for today's random "IMO" post.
Excuse me but it was hardly random.It was item 4 on the list and as we have entered the 3rd week of July....
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 15, 2011, 13:31
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.

but who is here trying to get you to non-exclusive? I believe every contributor must try all agencies and feel what works best, then you can go exclusive or quit or other
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 13:37
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.

 I believe every contributor must try all agencies and feel what works best, then you can go exclusive or quit or other
I used that theory before picking the wife :P
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 15, 2011, 13:51
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.

Ahhh, there it is: the non-exclusives are the culprits. We should have known.

How dare we criticize a company that surprises its contributors with pay cuts?

But you don't understand. Pay cuts are good. Pay cuts are wonderful. Pay cuts mean we will always have a job. They make our employer sustainable. And if he should become unsustainable, please, cut our pay again. That will show those evil non-exclusives how we will always thrive and they, losers that they are, will see their income sources wither and die!

Why is SS about to collapse? Because it hasn't cut the pay of its subscribers! Only through constantly rising percentages can sustainability be achieved. I won't be happy until all my commission has achieved 0%, only thus can I be assured of the sustainability of my job. And when that happy day arrives, perhaps it will be followed by a 100-fold increase in my commission rate!

Thank you iStock, for showing me the path to true fulfilment. And thank you, Shank Ali, for laying before us all the true facts that will ensure Sustainability. Truly, you are wise!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: fotografer on July 15, 2011, 14:00

I used that theory before picking the wife :P
Shank, you drive me so mad sometimes that my blood boils but then you come out with a random statement like the above one and I can't help but laugh!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2011, 14:02
You know, BaldricksTrousers, sometimes one can't see the forest because of all the trees.

From time to time it does take the view of an enlightened one to make us all understand.

Let me add that I can't wait until the prices for gas, food, clothing and health insurance are due for another increase. It just gives me this awesome cozy feeling of knowing that iStock has done the right thing of making sure that their investors will always be well off.

Sorry, I just had to go with the flow...  ;D
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 15, 2011, 14:31
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.

 I believe every contributor must try all agencies and feel what works best, then you can go exclusive or quit or other
I used that theory before picking the wife :P

exactly.. please help me out there too.. brunettes or blondes?? I have found that brunettes seem more insatiable :P

something on their nose right?
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 14:35
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.

 I believe every contributor must try all agencies and feel what works best, then you can go exclusive or quit or other
I used that theory before picking the wife :P

exactly.. please help me out there too.. brunettes or blondes?? I have found that brunettes seem more insatiable :P

something on their nose right?
The bald ones are more loyal  ;D
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 15, 2011, 14:38
shank are you from this world?? how can you talk like that saying we dont care about IS? thats a joy to hear, lot of folks here have commited a lot of work into pulling portfolios up there WHICH is a MESS overall with the slots, the keywords, the rejections that donīt match pictures (not a lot but some for sure).. and then the WORST paying a low 15%..

I guess you should think first before protecting IS when they were the only ONES screwing our earnings and buyers too.. I donīt make much there or anywhere else but the 15% is a thing to be ashamed and I am sure IS on the first days was too but money TALKS!
Well scotty has not beamed me up just yet....
I'm just in the minority in my thinking as i believe that microstock companys provide a resource for selling my photographs and without it i would be screwed.Some are of the opposite opinion..if it wasent for our work there would be no microstock companies.
What came first,the chicken or the egg.
Istock are still the premier microstock agent and no non exclusive will persuade me otherwise.
RC's were a bitter pill to swallow for most but in the long run people will see the benefit.

 I believe every contributor must try all agencies and feel what works best, then you can go exclusive or quit or other
I used that theory before picking the wife :P

exactly.. please help me out there too.. brunettes or blondes?? I have found that brunettes seem more insatiable :P

something on their nose right?
The bald ones are more loyal  ;D

dude NO.. you have killed the spirit :P bald woman??? where?? what place?? ahaahha
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: ShadySue on July 15, 2011, 16:11
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.
And iStock love their exclusives so much that they kick us off the forums at the random whim of a moderator.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 15, 2011, 16:26
Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.
And iStock love their exclusives so much that they kick us off the forums at the random whim of a moderator.
He's not that bad but i aint getting a new personality and character to fit into what Istockphoto deems to be fitting !
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: lisafx on July 15, 2011, 18:04
cthoman's video said it all...

ROFLMAO!!  Yes, that sums it up :)
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: lisafx on July 15, 2011, 18:13

Let's be honest, non exclusives don't give a dam about Istockphoto for the most part, so they use an outside forum to belittle the company at every opportunity.


Poor Shanky.  I feel so bad for you, being forced to spend so much time here reading this forum, and completely unable to look away...  ;)

(http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/4/3/7/7/3/5/i/8/8/9/p-large/iwys04m8zkj7kj.jpg)
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 16, 2011, 14:54
 ;D ;D

imagine shank_ali as a moderator at IS :P
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: RapidEye on July 16, 2011, 16:48
I've got to confess that I can see why iStock introduced the RC system. Which is not to say I like it, or welcome it, or approve of the way it was done with economy of truth, or fail to narrow my eyes at the swiftly broken promise to the members with "grandfathered" canisters.

But I can see how a new money-hungry overlord, H&F/Getty in this case, would not put up with a royalty system that produced a steadily falling rate of profit for the company as ever more suppliers marched cumulatively into the higher royalty ranks. Sure, the worst possible endpoint rate of profit might still have made a Rockefeller sob with envy, but in business that's not the point -- the point is whether the numbers are going up or going down.

To insist that they must always go up is perhaps economic delusional psychosis but it is unfortunately the raison d'etre of our system. And venture capitalists are the most dogged economic optimizers around, who certainly won't permit droopy-looking numbers to embarrass them if they can help it.

With the clarity of hindsight I'm seeing RCs or something similar as having been inevitable in the circumstances. Just a shame about the attendant bogosity.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 16, 2011, 17:01
With the clarity of hindsight I'm seeing RCs or something similar as having been inevitable in the circumstances. Just a shame about the attendant bogosity.

They were only inevitable in terms of corporate greed and owners wanting to increase their share of the take probably to fund their decision to raid the company by raising a massive loan to be paid to the owners. There is nothing unsustainable about an overall 40% royalty rate, Alamy pays better than that on every single sale and has enough left over to run a medical research institute as a charitable institution.

To the best of my belief there is no such thing in economics as a "rate of profit", so that can neither fall nor rise. It's very possible that iStock is seeing falling profits despite - maybe because of - its efforts to squeeze more from artists and customers alike by raising prices and cutting commissions.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 16, 2011, 17:24
Most groceries make 3-4% profit.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: RapidEye on July 16, 2011, 17:32
I'm surprised that corporate greed should be thought of as optional. Once the money men are running you, greed is institutional -- not just here but everywhere. It's the glory of the free market system. With everyone competing to maximize profit,  the system is supposed to allocate production and consumption resources with great efficiency.

Sorry, declining rate of profit is a woolly old marxist term. I should have said "shrinking bottom line" -- the cumulative rise in old canister percentage rates would have eroded iStock's profit, with the prospect of erosion by even bigger percentages in the coming years. All else being equal, of course.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: RapidEye on July 16, 2011, 18:10
Most groceries make 3-4% profit.

Yes, but that's all-in, overheads and all. We don't actually know iStock's profit figures. Perhaps they're spending zillions on servers and making payment of tribute to the Horned God. But we think they're fleecing us because we reckon they can keep overheads low enough to let them virtually print money. The truth is often thought to lie somewhere in between. Anyone have any financials on stock agencies?
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 16, 2011, 18:40
I'm surprised that corporate greed should be thought of as optional. Once the money men are running you, greed is institutional -- not just here but everywhere. It's the glory of the free market system. With everyone competing to maximize profit,  the system is supposed to allocate production and consumption resources with great efficiency.

Sorry, declining rate of profit is a woolly old marxist term. I should have said "shrinking bottom line" -- the cumulative rise in old canister percentage rates would have eroded iStock's profit, with the prospect of erosion by even bigger percentages in the coming years. All else being equal, of course.

good summary Don, I think it is as simple as that unfortunately. I guess the big question is what happens when artists are pushed into cohesion because we can no longer afford to have our profits eroding year to year (as though we can afford it now). good to see you here....also good to see this thread has turned into a discussion worth having.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cthoman on July 16, 2011, 18:41
It's hard to believe it was necessary for non-exlcusives no matter how you slice it. I'm not a super earner there, but iStock's share of my earnings last year could pay somebody's salary. My share on the other hand doesn't even cover my mortgage.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 16, 2011, 18:54
I'm surprised that corporate greed should be thought of as optional. Once the money men are running you, greed is institutional -- not just here but everywhere. It's the glory of the free market system. With everyone competing to maximize profit,  the system is supposed to allocate production and consumption resources with great efficiency.

Sorry, declining rate of profit is a woolly old marxist term. I should have said "shrinking bottom line" -- the cumulative rise in old canister percentage rates would have eroded iStock's profit, with the prospect of erosion by even bigger percentages in the coming years. All else being equal, of course.

I really don't think the old canister system would have significantly eroded istock's bottom line. The constant influx of new members supplying images for 20% commission helped to balance the very gradual increase in  members achieving the top rate. The bottom line depends primarily on the amount of money customers are spending, as long as iStock could grow that, then the bottom line would grow regardless of canisters.

The new system allows iStock to fix the exact overall commission rate it is paying, which is presumably 20%  in line with Getty's aims, rather than maybe 25% or 30% under the old system. But now they have achieved that, the only way they can "grow profitability" from this source in future is to cut payments to less than the target level.

If they hold commission averages to 20%, then the bottom line can only grow as a result of increased customer spend, which effectively means pulling in new customers or persuading existing ones to spend more, which assumes they are not working within budgets. The odd thing, is that people say they are no longer advertising the iStock brand in trade publications, which suggests they have abandoned hope of growing the customer base (or would rather send it elsewhere).

But, yes, if you take the aim to be to maximise every revenue stream to boost profits, the RC system - or a flat rate 20% for all - may have been inevitable. Maybe the next shift will be 20% flat rate, with Vetta and access to Getty being the exclusive perks.  Who knows? Or maybe it will be 15% all round. Would you then, after some thought, say that "it was inevitable" because they might just get away with it?

The problem at the moment is that they are trying to roast the outlying bits of the goose that lays golden eggs, assuming that they can maintain egg-production while simultaneously feasting on the wing-tips and other peripheral parts of the bird. That's not inevitable, it's short-sighted and stupid.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 16, 2011, 18:57
Anyone have any financials on stock agencies?

I gave you one - Alamy can pay 60% commission and still fund a scientific research centre out of its profits.

Getty, apparently, is unsustainable if it pays more than 20% commission.

The difference is that one just wants to make money, the other is more interested in playing a social role.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: RapidEye on July 16, 2011, 19:39
I really don't think the old canister system would have significantly eroded istock's bottom line. The constant influx of new members supplying images for 20% commission helped to balance the very gradual increase in  members achieving the top rate.

Yes, the influx is certainly palliative. But there are hundreds of diamonds now. I'll bet they, and the golds hurrying to join them, are selling a disproportionately large chunk of the images on iStock and skewing the average royalty rate upwards. Soon there would have been thousands of diamonds, all selling bunches of images for 40% royalties. A cost factor designed to increase! I reckon it could hurt when you're trying to make a company look good for a sale or IPO.

Quote
The bottom line depends primarily on the amount of money customers are spending, as long as iStock could grow that, then the bottom line would grow regardless of canisters.

Yes, but that's an independent variable.

Quote
The new system allows iStock to fix the exact overall commission rate it is paying, which is presumably 20%  in line with Getty's aims, rather than maybe 25% or 30% under the old system. But now they have achieved that, the only way they can "grow profitability" from this source in future is to cut payments to less than the target level.

Yes, ugh, it's an automatic photographer-squeezing apparatus. No doubt they'll try further experimental squeezes to gauge the reaction.

Quote
The problem at the moment is that they are trying to roast the outlying bits of the goose that lays golden eggs, assuming that they can maintain egg-production while simultaneously feasting on the wing-tips and other peripheral parts of the bird. That's not inevitable, it's short-sighted and stupid.

Our goose is cooked.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 16, 2011, 19:49
It's hard to believe it was necessary for non-exlcusives no matter how you slice it. I'm not a super earner there, but iStock's share of my earnings last year could pay somebody's salary. My share on the other hand doesn't even cover my mortgage.

taking for granted the portion I don't see...holy cow, when you put it that way, it's so true...crazy.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 16, 2011, 19:55
I don't imagine there are thousands of diamonds waitings in the gold wings. 95% of the stuff I see from newish peeps is available in mass amounts already.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 16, 2011, 20:03
^ that's probably true. but then you see successful contributors who are diamonds + uploading the same concepts they already have in their own portfolios....you can't exactly say that contributors should only produce truly original, never done before concepts. that's impossible. I certainly do my very best to make my images my own...but the concepts we all come up with have been done over and over again regardless of best efforts not to. and that's not including those people who blatantly rip off others
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cthoman on July 16, 2011, 20:24
It's hard to believe it was necessary for non-exlcusives no matter how you slice it. I'm not a super earner there, but iStock's share of my earnings last year could pay somebody's salary. My share on the other hand doesn't even cover my mortgage.

taking for granted the portion I don't see...holy cow, when you put it that way, it's so true...crazy.

I think the sad fact of it is that iStock could have easily crushed their competition with moves in the opposite direction. Paying a flat 50% to all exclusives might have pulled all the fence sitters into exclusivity (myself included). I don't know if I'd want to go full exclusive now, but I'd probably make a deal with IS to dump their major competition for 50% of the share. I'd still want to be able to have my own site to sell through though. That deal is never going to be offered, so I guess I'll never have to be tempted.  ;)
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: pancaketom on July 16, 2011, 20:59
It's hard to believe it was necessary for non-exlcusives no matter how you slice it. I'm not a super earner there, but iStock's share of my earnings last year could pay somebody's salary. My share on the other hand doesn't even cover my mortgage.

taking for granted the portion I don't see...holy cow, when you put it that way, it's so true...crazy.

I think the sad fact of it is that iStock could have easily crushed their competition with moves in the opposite direction. Paying a flat 50% to all exclusives might have pulled all the fence sitters into exclusivity (myself included). I don't know if I'd want to go full exclusive now, but I'd probably make a deal with IS to dump their major competition for 50% of the share. I'd still want to be able to have my own site to sell through though. That deal is never going to be offered, so I guess I'll never have to be tempted.  ;)

It is a little staggering to think about what their take must be even now with reduced sales.

I agree they could have completely crushed the competition with some savvy moves - like image exclusivity - at least before they started killing sales w/ drastic best match shifts.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 16, 2011, 21:03
I would prefer image exclusivity to artist exclusivity...
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: qwerty on July 16, 2011, 22:33
Shank your following the script perfectly.

When is it when you get banned again ?

I think the RC credit bebarkle would be easiler to justify if the targets were somewhat achievable and some sought of an upside for non-exclusives.

I mean to get 1 million RC to retain 20%.

If they'd made it 18-23% for non-exclusives may have been more palatable
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 17, 2011, 00:12
Don's here and speaking with assurance and clarity as normal  :).
The pill has been swallowed.The RC's targets are posted and clear.Istockphoto now have the control back.
Let's not forget the people who tell us things via the Istock forum are not business people and as such make remarks and comments that lack clarity or any assurance.
Communication will continue to be a problem unless there is better liason between the company and the community of artists.Terry J said as much in London.Hope it was taken onboard !
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 17, 2011, 03:05
I'm a business person, shank. Are you one? How many companies have you run?
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 17, 2011, 03:11
I'm a business person, shank. Are you one? How many companies have you run?
I'm good at minding other people business not so sure about my own.What point are you trying to make.Have you run a microstock business before or are you telling me a guy who owns a newsagent can run also  an hotel chain in Dubai.Respond quickly as i need to shower and have my breakfast.Busy day ahead....
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 17, 2011, 03:46
You're the one who said "the people who tell us things via the Istock forum are not business people and as such make remarks and comments that lack clarity or any assurance". Now you are saying the only people with clarity and assurance are those who run microstock agencies.

And you're telling us that iStock's owners aren't qualified to run the business because they also own hotels in Dubai? Well, given their track record I might be incluined to agree. However, the general theory in business is that being successful in running one gives you the insight into how to run another. If you were at a high enough level, you would know that.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 17, 2011, 04:39
You're the one who said "the people who tell us things via the Istock forum are not business people and as such make remarks and comments that lack clarity or any assurance". Now you are saying the only people with clarity and assurance are those who run microstock agencies.

And you're telling us that iStock's owners aren't qualified to run the business because they also own hotels in Dubai? Well, given their track record I might be incluined to agree. However, the general theory in business is that being successful in running one gives you the insight into how to run another. If you were at a high enough level, you would know that.
Your mixing my comments up slightly.The RC's decision was made for the business as a whole.The way it was communicated to the artists via the forum was inept, to say the least, and caused alot of bad feelings.It could have been handled so much better and even if they had sought advice from a third party on how to communicate that difficult decision to the artists.
That bad feeling has yet to subside from what i read on the  MGC forum.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: ShadySue on July 17, 2011, 05:23
Your mixing my comments up slightly.The RC's decision was made for the business as a whole.The way it was communicated to the artists via the forum was inept, to say the least, and caused alot of bad feelings.It could have been handled so much better and even if they had sought advice from a third party on how to communicate that difficult decision to the artists.
That bad feeling has yet to subside from what i read on the  MGC forum.
I don't give a FF about how they communicate1 their business decisions.
Crap ("we want to reduce your share and we don't GAD about your sustainability") wrapped in a sugar coating is still crap.
Lies ("you will be grandfathered in") in flowery language are still lies.
What makes you think the bad feeling will - or should - ever subside (apart from what Kelly said in that interview)? No-one in their right mind will trust them again.
1 Communication has long been a major iStock failure. Their provider and user contracts are totally ambiguous and many phrases have been debated in the forums for ages without any definite conclusion. I've long called for them to consult the Plain English Society, but that's fallen on deaf ears. One has to assume it's deliberate.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 17, 2011, 05:34
You're the one who said "the people who tell us things via the Istock forum are not business people and as such make remarks and comments that lack clarity or any assurance". Now you are saying the only people with clarity and assurance are those who run microstock agencies.

And you're telling us that iStock's owners aren't qualified to run the business because they also own hotels in Dubai? Well, given their track record I might be incluined to agree. However, the general theory in business is that being successful in running one gives you the insight into how to run another. If you were at a high enough level, you would know that.
Your mixing my comments up slightly.The RC's decision was made for the business as a whole.The way it was communicated to the artists via the forum was inept, to say the least, and caused alot of bad feelings.It could have been handled so much better and even if they had sought advice from a third party on how to communicate that difficult decision to the artists.
That bad feeling has yet to subside from what i read on the  MGC forum.

I wasn't mixing up your comments at all. It's true that I extrapolated one to point out that the owners would fall into the category of people you say aren't qualified to run iStock (because you obviously hadn't thought of the implications of what you posted).

First you say that the people who post lack the business experience to hold the correct opinions or to be able to think with necessary clarity (implying that you have business skills superior to those who disagree with you), then when it becomes apparent that some do have business experience you switch your ground to argue that only microstock businesspeople could be considered competent to comment (do you consider yourself one of those?) then when I point out (a) that the owners of iStock are not "microstock businesspeople" and (b) that those who work at senior management level consider that good management skills are universally applicable (which shows that you never worked at that level, or you would know it) you change the subject and start bleating about "poor communication".

Shank Ali: You're fired.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: helix7 on July 17, 2011, 11:11
...It could have been handled so much better and even if they had sought advice from a third party on how to communicate that difficult decision to the artists.

I don't care how they could have spun it better. We're not idiots, and we can all think for ourselves and figure out that this was a greedy money grab, nothing more.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 17, 2011, 11:22
Your mixing my comments up slightly.The RC's decision was made for the business as a whole.The way it was communicated to the artists via the forum was inept, to say the least, and caused alot of bad feelings.It could have been handled so much better and even if they had sought advice from a third party on how to communicate that difficult decision to the artists.
That bad feeling has yet to subside from what i read on the  MGC forum.
I don't give a FF about how they communicate1 their business decisions.
Crap ("we want to reduce your share and we don't GAD about your sustainability") wrapped in a sugar coating is still crap.
Lies ("you will be grandfathered in") in flowery language are still lies.
What makes you think the bad feeling will - or should - ever subside (apart from what Kelly said in that interview)? No-one in their right mind will trust them again.
1 Communication has long been a major iStock failure. Their provider and user contracts are totally ambiguous and many phtrases have been debated in the forums for ages without any definite conclusion. I've long called for them to consult the Plain English Society, but that's fallen on deaf ears. One has to assume it's deliberate.

I love that you included a footnote...lol. is that an MSG first?
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Graffoto on July 17, 2011, 12:02
Perhaps the owners of iStock/Getty should read this and re-think their strategy:
http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/ (http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/)

This is a new world and calls for a new way of doing business.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: ShadySue on July 17, 2011, 13:25
Perhaps the owners of iStock/Getty should read this and re-think their strategy:
[url]http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/[/url] ([url]http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/[/url])

This is a new world and calls for a new way of doing business.

Very interesting series of articles, and seems to be the polar opposite of how iStock has been doing things this past while.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Graffoto on July 17, 2011, 14:22
Yes. Exactly the polar opposite.

The corporation I work for is also mired in old school think.
A cadre of bean counters is used to analyze and reanalyze data to determine how to best crush to competiton.
The truly humorous part is that we are a 'not for profit' corporation.

Does Getty even have a Facebook fan page?
If so, are they using it properly?
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: elvinstar on July 17, 2011, 18:11
Quote
Very interesting series of articles

Definitely very interesting! I was gratified to learn that I'm already using some of those principles in the operation of my web development business, but I learned that there is quite a bit more that I could be doing.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 18, 2011, 10:26
Perhaps the owners of iStock/Getty should read this and re-think their strategy:
[url]http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/[/url] ([url]http://blogs.forbes.com/stevedenning/2011/07/16/why-is-the-world-run-by-bean-counters/[/url])

This is a new world and calls for a new way of doing business.

I'm sure Mr Klein can do business quite well on his own.Buying Istockphoto was good for his business.Creating Thinkstock for the subscription market and using exclusive content from Istock and another 30 companies Getty had bought in recent years to supply it was good.
It's the same world and the demand is still the same it's just that the  supply is outstripping demand.
Not sure why they think Video is going to be the new market force in the next couple of years but Istockphoto will be in a good market position if the medium takes hold.....
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 18, 2011, 10:39
Isn't Mr Klein's track record anything but illustrious? He did so well that his shareholders were glad to grab the money and run when the current owners came in with an offer that would have been laughed at a year earlier.

At that time, he said that the plan was to build value and sell the business on in a couple of years. When that time came, there was no sign of it having sufficient value for anyone to want to buy it, so the owners raised a bank loan against future earnings to try to recover some of their initial investment cash.

That's what it looked like to me. Lots of activity but not much to show for it.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: SNP on July 18, 2011, 10:43
Isn't Mr Klein's track record anything but illustrious? He did so well that his shareholders were glad to grab the money and run when the current owners came in with an offer that would have been laughed at a year earlier.

At that time, he said that the plan was to build value and sell the business on in a couple of years. When that time came, there was no sign of it having sufficient value for anyone to want to buy it, so the owners raised a bank loan against future earnings to try to recover some of their initial investment cash.

That's what it looked like to me. Lots of activity but not much to show for it.

I'd say you pretty much nailed it. in my limited economics knowledge and from everything I've read about the management of Getty assets over the last ten years...that's about as succinct as it gets.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: cobalt on July 18, 2011, 10:52
"the demand is still the same it's just that the  supply is outstripping demand"

If they told you that "demand is still the same" they have admitted that they are not adding customers.

If you hire a salesman and he tells you he couldnīt find any new buyers this year while the competition can - would you pay him a bonus?

The world economy hasnīt stopped advertising, there are loads of countries and business that are still not using stock.

They can of course wait until someone else does the hard work of opening up a new marketand then buy the agency with the client contracts. Maybe for Getty that is indeed a cost efficient strategy. Although I wonder why it would still be cheaper in the days of the internet. It should be a lot cheaper to grow organically out of your own business.

But istock used to be really good at growing their own business into new markets. I mean they are adding png and editorial to reach out. But unfortunately at the moment Shutterstock is doing a much better job at attracting the buyers.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: Shank_ali on July 18, 2011, 11:53
My comment was in regards of the link provided that why i quoted it  !
It's pretty obvious to most people involved in Microstock that Istockphoto and Shutterstock are the market leaders.This thread however was made to discuss the way redeemable credits were brought in to steady and secure the long term future of Istockphoto.
Perhaps Shutterstock will cut commissions to it's contributors in the future,we will wait and see.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: pancaketom on July 18, 2011, 12:10
This thread however was made to discuss the way redeemable credits were brought in to steady and secure the long term future of Istockphoto.

I believe that istock would have had a steady and long term secure profitable future without these changes. In fact although they may boost the short term profits in the long term the contributor ire and mistrust that they engendered will possibly have the opposite effect.
Title: Re: Redeemed Credits from a business angle.....
Post by: luissantos84 on July 18, 2011, 12:17
Perhaps Shutterstock will cut commissions to it's contributors in the future,we will wait and see.

sorry mate, that might happen but perhaps IS will do it once more first.. and do you know the last time SS decreased our royalties?? yep.. never.. they actually increased it :)