MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: sharpshot on June 02, 2011, 04:26
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After nine months of not uploading, I'm going to start uploading some new images to istock again. I stopped because of the commission cuts and I'm still annoyed about that but my earnings have fallen so much that I don't think I can keep going with my boycott. I also feel like the last person standing on the picket line after everyone else has gone back to work. If I was earning more money, I would stick to my principles but the price of everything I buy has gone up this year and I really need more income. The Photo+ collection looks like it's going to help and I will fill my remaining quota with new images and then reassess the situation.
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yep, I think you may be the last one ;D
I started again 2 months ago, when I saw that it wasn't really making a difference and BS was paying me less and that pretty much every site has cut commissions. so i drop about half my quota in each week and I'm working through my backlog for all sites and exploring other areas, not really shooting much microstock anymore
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Don't blame you. But sales have been tumbling for many of us who didn't boycott the place, too.
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You are not the last!
I stopped uploading there, and have deleted images too.
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Hi Sharpshot,
You're not alone, I was thinking about it too.
And I feel like a fool. It's only a handful of us who have deleted ports / stopped uploading since the changes anyway. Clearly we're too small fish to make any difference.
While back in January I deleted my port, (almost) everyone else kept on filling their weekly quotas like there was no tomorrow. Newbies, golds, diamonds and above, everyone rushed in.
There was no deleting of images, no slowdown in uploading; there wasn't even a selective upload plan - give your best images to the other sites, let IStock have the rest. Do something.
There 'are' ways to fight Getty without having to sacrifice your first born.
But it never worked.
The reason?
Newbies - well, they're newbies and thrilled with every sale.
Established, important contributors, photographers who have a say and can actually make a difference, are all somehow struggling for survival. Every one of them. They have families. Large families. And mortgages. And taxes. And children. And education fees and expensive medical bills. It's a tough world out there and without IStock they will all be homeless.
Can't bear the thought.
So what are you to do Sharpshot?
Go ahead and start uploading. No two ways about it.
Try Thinkstock as well (I'm serious; apparently people sell hundreds of licences a month on ThinkStock alone), try Photo+ too and take advantage of every opportunity IStock opens to you.
It's only fair, thank you for trying your best to help us all, and good luck :)
I've been thinking about it too. And I've got a very good reason. It's not an excuse, it's real. I'm very, very ill and I need every cent.
But I can't do it. It's impossible; trust me, I tried.
IStock's BS (and upload page), make me sicker than the medical treatment I have to endure right now.
There's something about that site. I can't even look at it without feeling nauseous.
On moral grounds, on principles and not for the life of me (literally).
I can't upload to IStock.
But the best of luck to you, thank you for everything you tried to do and get busy selling :)
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You are not the only one who has not resumed uploading yet. I am not uploading there again, my earnings there have been reduced to a very small amount (about 80 percent less what it used to be). But I still do not find any incentive to resume uploading. I am concentrating my limited time resources to upload to the other agencies. And only if I am not that busy with that anymore - I may reconsider uploading to istock again.
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I've been thinking about it too. And I've got a very good reason. It's not an excuse, it's real. I'm very, very ill and I need every cent.
But I can't do it. It's impossible; trust me, I tried.
IStock's BS (and upload page), make me sicker than the medical treatment I have to endure right now.
There's something about that site. I can't even look at it without feeling nauseous.
On moral grounds, on principles and not for the life of me (literally).
I can't upload to IStock.
But the best of luck to you, thank you for everything you tried to do and get busy selling :)
Yeah Istock's treating of contributors (fraud deductions, commission cuts etc) plus the awful upload page make it hard for me to reconsider my decision for now. Would be more likely to add another agency to my income mix than upload there again at the moment.
BTW - sorry to hear you are sick. I wish you tons of sales on all other agencies you are supplying to. And a lot of healing thoughts and prayers to come your way.
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Thanks Eireann, I wish you the best of luck with your illness. It was very strange uploading to istock again. Nothing has changed, it's still a horrible process compared to lots of the sites and I really didn't miss it. I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with SS. They are rejecting things that I know would make money. DT are just as bad, so that just leaves me with FT for the big sites. I don't think FT are much better than istock.
I wont upload any new videos to istock because I have Pond5 and a few other sites that pay a good commission to sell them and I'm happy with that.
I just hope that some time soon someone comes up with a better option for all of us to sell our images and get at least 50% commission. At the moment, there's only alamy that are making me anything significant each month and I would probably need 20,000 images to rely on just my income from them.
Good luck to anyone that is still boycotting sites that have cut commissions.
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Can't blame you either sharpshot; i also was still not uploading and my commissions have dropped to a fraction of what they were there (-80%), so 2 weeks ago i bended and started uploading again... the vast majority of my uploads came back rejected for keywords only (miss or mister reviewer decided they didnt like 3 keywords and without any other reasons or flaws hit the reject button, while the rejected keywords show on Shutterstock as the top selling keywords for those files..).
I'm really not going to jump through their endless hoops for their miserable commissions, instead i'll just keep doing my best to spread the word about how they run their business and move customers to better places.
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Do what you have to do. I stopped uploading with the royalty cut, and did the same at Fotolia when they cut theirs again. I've been deleting images from both, a few at a time, and have no intention of changing that. It's cost me some money, but not enough to make up for the outrage at my/our mistreatment. Doubt I'll go back to uploading at either one.
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Don't blame you. But sales have been tumbling for many of us who didn't boycott the place, too.
Exactly. Resuming uploading may not have much of an impact on earnings. Earnings at istock are in the toilet for a lot of people, regardless of how much (or little) they've been uploading.
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I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with Shutterstock. They are rejecting things that I know would make money.
I have some interesting data on that as I've been uploading to Shutterstock a lot in the last few weeks. Most of the files are ones on which I have sales data already (from the last year or two). SS has rejected several of my best selling images on iStock as having limited commercial value. ex-Vetta images rejected as having poor lighting, images with shallow DOF as improper focus, etc.
They've accepted a ton of things too, but I half thought of challenging the LCV rejections on the basis of the proven sales value of those files. I decided it just isn't worth the time to do as each site will just do it's own thing and my sanity lies in just accepting their foibles if I'm to sell there.
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I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with Shutterstock. They are rejecting things that I know would make money.
I have some interesting data on that as I've been uploading to Shutterstock a lot in the last few weeks. Most of the files are ones on which I have sales data already (from the last year or two). Shutterstock has rejected several of my best selling images on iStock as having limited commercial value. ex-Vetta images rejected as having poor lighting, images with shallow DOF as improper focus, etc.
They've accepted a ton of things too, but I half thought of challenging the LCV rejections on the basis of the proven sales value of those files. I decided it just isn't worth the time to do as each site will just do it's own thing and my sanity lies in just accepting their foibles if I'm to sell there.
If there's an image I feel very strongly about, that I really want to get into my portfolio, I resubmit with a note to the reviewer. In the note, I point out why I think the image has sales potential, and ask that they reconsider and give it a chance - which is a lot like sending images to Scout on iStock. I only do this with images I feel very strongly about. Also, if there is a technical problem you can correct and resubmit, with a note explaining that this is a corrected file.
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I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with Shutterstock. They are rejecting things that I know would make money.
I have some interesting data on that as I've been uploading to Shutterstock a lot in the last few weeks. Most of the files are ones on which I have sales data already (from the last year or two). Shutterstock has rejected several of my best selling images on iStock as having limited commercial value. ex-Vetta images rejected as having poor lighting, images with shallow DOF as improper focus, etc.
They've accepted a ton of things too, but I half thought of challenging the LCV rejections on the basis of the proven sales value of those files. I decided it just isn't worth the time to do as each site will just do it's own thing and my sanity lies in just accepting their foibles if I'm to sell there.
Joanne, this is exactly my philosophy. I don't even bother with most rejections. In fact, since uploading to DT and SS I've had some (what I feel) crazy rejections for stuff that has sold well on iStock. At first it made me cringe and then I just moved past it and now I don't even waste my time because I know my files are for sale somewhere else anyway so they are getting exposure elsewhere. The only rejections I've resubmitted were for ones where I accidentally uploaded an iStock model release instead of the generic one. I did correct that and all the images were subsequently approved.
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I resumed about two month ago for the same reasons like you. Economic pressure. I can tell you that istock slowly is becoming a low seller - income is dropping drastically. I am not even sure if uploading again makes any difference in income, so the last weeks I am kind of lazy with them and don`t upload regulary. Istock lost its importance. The situation in the market is difficult if you upload to them or not. You haven`t been missing anything. Good luck!
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I resumed uploading to iStock awhile back, I felt like a sellout, but I did it anyway, because I was worried about my declining income. As it turns out, I wonder if I've sold out for very little return. My iStock earnings continue to drop at an alarming rate, it's getting harder to get images accepted, and even when I send rejected files to Scout they usually just get rejected a second time. They insist that every pixel be perfect, and in return I am rewarded with ever lower royalties and a continual decline in earnings.
But I will never upload to Thinkstock, I think we would all be much better off if The Abomination Known as Thinkstock fails. I would love nothing more than to see that site shut down.
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But I will never upload to Thinkstock, I think we would all be much better off if The Abomination Known as Thinkstock fails. I would love nothing more than to see that site shut down.
I had a think about Thinkstock (!) as part of my return to independent status - I've opted out of the partner program from day 1. I decided I'd be better off supporting SS by remaining opted out of the iStock partner program. If at some point they make partner program mandatory, I'll just live with it (i.e. I'm not going to pull my port over it) but otherwise they'll have to up the ante before I'll reconsider.
As Getty has just strong-armed its contributors into a contract permitting them to put anything into their subscription sites, I'm not expecting them to throw in the towel any time soon, even though I think that contract change was a sign that they're getting a bit desperate to keep revenues up.
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No! Ive done my last upload now and if I find they end up further back then page 10, Im deactivating them. No reflection on IS and their best match, just I havent got the time for producing images from commissions, releases and everything, to be mucked around anymore.
Pitty though Ive got some serious stuff coming up, Off-shore oil-rigs, Nuclear-power, automotive-industries, etc, and thats just it, pics are too hard to come by and too valuable to sit on page 500 or something.
Ordinary, generic stuff I would gladly have uploaded but not nieched material.
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I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with Shutterstock. They are rejecting things that I know would make money.
I have some interesting data on that as I've been uploading to Shutterstock a lot in the last few weeks. Most of the files are ones on which I have sales data already (from the last year or two). Shutterstock has rejected several of my best selling images on iStock as having limited commercial value. ex-Vetta images rejected as having poor lighting, images with shallow DOF as improper focus, etc...
I sympathize with you. From admin comments on threads at SS, it seem that SS does not realize how badly their flawed reviewing system is hurting them. They need to fix it before it does irreparable damage to their business.
As for submitting to IS, personally I have not resumed submitting and will not. Sure my sales there have dropped through the floor since I stopped submitting to IS months ago, but my overall stock sales are way, way up. My experience is that as buyers leave IS in droves, which is obviously happening, those buyers will eventually find your images on other sites.
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No! Ive done my last upload now and if I find they end up further back then page 10, Im deactivating them. No reflection on IS and their best match, just I havent got the time for producing images from commissions, releases and everything, to be mucked around anymore.
Pitty though Ive got some serious stuff coming up, Off-shore oil-rigs, Nuclear-power, automotive-industries, etc, and thats just it, pics are too hard to come by and too valuable to sit on page 500 or something.
Ordinary, generic stuff I would gladly have uploaded but not nieched material.
This is probably a noobish question, but why aren't you selling those as RM? I mean at least those that you don't intend to sell on IS
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Kudos to all of you who have kept fighting the good fight for so long. I only lasted a month or so. But I agree with Balderick, that uploading isn't preventing my IS sales from tanking.
Eirann, I wish you all the best with your health issues. As I type this I am in bed recovering from abdominal surgery yesterday. So I can relate to how a serious health issue will completely take over your life. You also have my admiration for your consistency and strength of character in the way you have handled this IS situation.
FWIW, l think whether or not we keep uploading to IS, it is obvious this past year's bad business decisions are hurting them.
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No! Ive done my last upload now and if I find they end up further back then page 10, Im deactivating them. No reflection on IS and their best match, just I havent got the time for producing images from commissions, releases and everything, to be mucked around anymore.
Pitty though Ive got some serious stuff coming up, Off-shore oil-rigs, Nuclear-power, automotive-industries, etc, and thats just it, pics are too hard to come by and too valuable to sit on page 500 or something.
Ordinary, generic stuff I would gladly have uploaded but not nieched material.
This is probably a noobish question, but why aren't you selling those as RM? I mean at least those that you don't intend to sell on IS
I am!! There are plenty of them at RM, obviously not identicals ofcourse. Ive run my own RM agency, offline, for years. The pics are RM and its only for clients and corporatrions involved in the actual industry. I think that over the years I have amalgamated over 70K, images, plenty of older film, MF and LF.
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I think the final straw for me has been the big increase in rejections with Shutterstock. They are rejecting things that I know would make money.
I have some interesting data on that as I've been uploading to Shutterstock a lot in the last few weeks. Most of the files are ones on which I have sales data already (from the last year or two). Shutterstock has rejected several of my best selling images on iStock as having limited commercial value. ex-Vetta images rejected as having poor lighting, images with shallow DOF as improper focus, etc.
They've accepted a ton of things too, but I half thought of challenging the LCV rejections on the basis of the proven sales value of those files. I decided it just isn't worth the time to do as each site will just do it's own thing and my sanity lies in just accepting their foibles if I'm to sell there.
I think it's worth challenging the reviews every now and then. They lose a lot of money with bad reviews, one image can make thousands of dollars over the years. If it only takes a few minutes and it could make a lot of money, I think it's worth doing. And it might make the reviewers think a bit more before pressing that big red rejection button.
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very interesting.
it seems the party is over at iStock.
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I've only uploaded 21 photos since January 2010, and they have gone on to earn a whoppin' $150 all together ($91 of which was generated by one unique image alone). Whoop-dee-do! ::) My earnings are down much further than that, so at this point I'm only wasting valuable time adding new content. I've removed about 100 images since the first of the year, but I'm suspending that drive for six months until the P+ contract is over. Eventually IS will be in my rear view mirror and I won't be looking back...my mind is made up. There's plenty of other things I can be doing that will generate decent income other than contributing to iStock.
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I quit uploading after the commission cuts and deleted 3/4 of my portfolio there. I only left the good sellers in case they ever came back to life, but I'm not seeing it. I haven't resumed uploading and probably won't. It's just to much of a hassle for to little money. Unfortunately microstock in general is becoming to much of a hassle for to little money... :-\
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I had just got accepted at iS when all the hullabaloo broke loose. I don't have a clue and had a heck of a time getting images accepted ... until lately. Suddenly my SS rejects are accepted and selling a iS.
I agree with whomever said that SS needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe SS knows best and iS is starting to accept junk?
As I said; I'm clueless. ???
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I had just got accepted at iS when all the hullabaloo broke loose. I don't have a clue and had a heck of a time getting images accepted ... until lately. Suddenly my Shutterstock rejects are accepted and selling a iS.
I agree with whomever said that Shutterstock needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe Shutterstock knows best and iS is starting to accept junk?
As I said; I'm clueless. ???
Hi!
Yes, SS, is today far more tougher then IS, when reviewing, BUT! theres one good thing, if an image is accepted into SS, odds are it will sell, sooner or later. At IS, it can hang-around at page 100 and never, ever sell.
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...I agree with whomever said that Shutterstock needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe Shutterstock knows best and iS is starting to accept junk...
I think SS at least knows that the image race is pointless and there's no need to just accept images to get the largest collection anymore. Maybe they've gone too far in the other direction and are stricter now, but I think they do recognize more than other sites that there is a serious need to refine the acceptance requirements and not just keep doing things the same way they've done for years.
One thing SS (and many other sites) have over istock is EPS10 vectors. istock won't accept them, so SS has a good collection of vectors in the more versatile EPS10 format that istock doesn't have. SS may not have it all figured out when it comes to acceptance policy, and they may be rejecting stuff that istock accepts. But they at least have a clue when it comes to offering modern file formats and not sticking with the same old antiquated EPS8 standard. It's amazing to me that they're making such a fuss over PNG, meanwhile most other major sites are killing them with progressive vector format policies.
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I had just got accepted at iS when all the hullabaloo broke loose. I don't have a clue and had a heck of a time getting images accepted ... until lately. Suddenly my Shutterstock rejects are accepted and selling a iS.
I agree with whomever said that Shutterstock needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe Shutterstock knows best and iS is starting to accept junk?
As I said; I'm clueless. ???
Hi!
Yes, Shutterstock, is today far more tougher then IS, when reviewing, BUT! theres one good thing, if an image is accepted into Shutterstock, odds are it will sell, sooner or later. At IS, it can hang-around at page 100 and never, ever sell.
I admitted to being clueless. I have no idea what page my images are on. I just check DeepMeta and see that they're being viewed and a few are selling. My sales at iStock have increased until I make about a third of what I make at ShutterStock. But, I have only a sixth as many images on iStock. My thoughts are: "Why not let them compete? Sales at both sites exceed the sales at one site." :P
I don't do vectors, Helix. Not sure if that should make a difference to me?
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...I agree with whomever said that Shutterstock needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe Shutterstock knows best and iS is starting to accept junk...
I think Shutterstock at least knows that the image race is pointless and there's no need to just accept images to get the largest collection anymore. Maybe they've gone too far in the other direction and are stricter now, but I think they do recognize more than other sites that there is a serious need to refine the acceptance requirements and not just keep doing things the same way they've done for years.
One thing Shutterstock (and many other sites) have over istock is EPS10 vectors. istock won't accept them, so Shutterstock has a good collection of vectors in the more versatile EPS10 format that istock doesn't have. Shutterstock may not have it all figured out when it comes to acceptance policy, and they may be rejecting stuff that istock accepts. But they at least have a clue when it comes to offering modern file formats and not sticking with the same old antiquated EPS8 standard. It's amazing to me that they're making such a fuss over PNG, meanwhile most other major sites are killing them with progressive vector format policies.
Indeed. I for one, don't have any problems getting my photos accepted. I rarely get a rejection, but it's true, that I got one idiotic a month a ago - TM issues, although the vast majority of the series has already been accepted, with some detailed shots showing as much "TM" material as that one. A submitted it again, since the rejection was illogical (and photo was accepted at IS as well), it was accepted. I must say I welcome stricter inspections, but not in the technical point of view (focus, sharpness, noise, WB...), they're strict enough in this regard, but when it comes to composition, CV, originality and most importantly I'd reject oversupplied images, that don't sell for a long time (simple isolations, boring nature shots etc). Sure, I hate the fact the those starting early still have a free ride on those worthless shots I mentioned before, but nothing in life's fair anyway and it'll have to come to an end sooner or later. Oh yeah I'd definitely want them to be A LOT stricter when it comes to similars. It totally pisses me off, when I get a batch accepted, search under newest first and than my photos get pushed from the first (150) site in a couple of hours, because some boring isolated on white series of 54 almost identical shots got through. When they all should be rejected anyway (by the new, stricter standards), since they're badly composed, unoriginal, seen for a million times, shots with more or less blank expressions and standard, boring poses. And they should do something about keyword spamming too, because half of the results have nothing or little to do with search terms (eg you search for shopping and get a series of egg cartons)
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I've removed about 100 images since the first of the year, but I'm suspending that drive for six months until the P+ contract is over.
Just in case someone misinterprets what you wrote above, the P+ contract wouldn't prevent you from deactivating a file nominated as P+, it's just that you can't make it 'base price' for 6 months while it's live.
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...I agree with whomever said that Shutterstock needs to wake up. All the converts from iS won't matter if all the new images wind up at iS.
Or, maybe Shutterstock knows best and iS is starting to accept junk...
I think Shutterstock at least knows that the image race is pointless and there's no need to just accept images to get the largest collection anymore. Maybe they've gone too far in the other direction and are stricter now, but I think they do recognize more than other sites that there is a serious need to refine the acceptance requirements and not just keep doing things the same way they've done for years.
One thing Shutterstock (and many other sites) have over istock is EPS10 vectors. istock won't accept them, so Shutterstock has a good collection of vectors in the more versatile EPS10 format that istock doesn't have. Shutterstock may not have it all figured out when it comes to acceptance policy, and they may be rejecting stuff that istock accepts. But they at least have a clue when it comes to offering modern file formats and not sticking with the same old antiquated EPS8 standard. It's amazing to me that they're making such a fuss over PNG, meanwhile most other major sites are killing them with progressive vector format policies.
Indeed. I for one, don't have any problems getting my photos accepted. I rarely get a rejection, but it's true, that I got one idiotic a month a ago - TM issues, although the vast majority of the series has already been accepted, with some detailed shots showing as much "TM" material as that one. A submitted it again, since the rejection was illogical (and photo was accepted at IS as well), it was accepted. I must say I welcome stricter inspections, but not in the technical point of view (focus, sharpness, noise, WB...), they're strict enough in this regard, but when it comes to composition, CV, originality and most importantly I'd reject oversupplied images, that don't sell for a long time (simple isolations, boring nature shots etc). Sure, I hate the fact the those starting early still have a free ride on those worthless shots I mentioned before, but nothing in life's fair anyway and it'll have to come to an end sooner or later. Oh yeah I'd definitely want them to be A LOT stricter when it comes to similars. It totally pisses me off, when I get a batch accepted, search under newest first and than my photos get pushed from the first (150) site in a couple of hours, because some boring isolated on white series of 54 almost identical shots got through. When they all should be rejected anyway (by the new, stricter standards), since they're badly composed, unoriginal, seen for a million times, shots with more or less blank expressions and standard, boring poses. And they should do something about keyword spamming too, because half of the results have nothing or little to do with search terms (eg you search for shopping and get a series of egg cartons)
search results are such a mess, that I don't see any way for them to get it fixed. So much keyword spamming, so much similar accepted and of course having a library with 15+ mio files doesn't help either. So the only solution I see, is to either introduce a higher priced collection (priced like e+ for instance) that would save the buyers time, at least for those looking for premium content. To to mention the benefits for us. Or at least make us choose 10% of our photos that get to be pushed up front in search results (like on 123 RF). They could introduce a search like on alamy, where you can look under file age by months, years (eg uploaded in the last six months, year, 2 years etc). But that would only work if they indeed became way more strict when it comes to reviews (reject similars and get rid of keyword spammed images) and only after a certain period of time would pass, I'd say at least a year would be needed. Which is only a long term solution, so one of the first 2 solutions I mentioned would have to be put in place immediately.
But SS still is by far my fav agency and IMO the leader or at least becoming fast.
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There seems to be a problem with Shutterstock reviews lately (a month or two?).
There's one thing to raise the bar on quality, (we all agree with that), and another to keep on rejecting perfectly good stock images.
It can't go on this way, it's a real problem and they need to address that. Sooner rather than later.
Off topic
Thank you all for the best wishes. I'm in for a very difficult fight with very little chance of success. But it is what it is, I have to accept it. Such is life. Thank you :)
And get well soon Lisa!
Wishing you a speedy recovery after the surgery; it's not easy and you need to take good care of yourself! Keep close to your hubby and daughter and let the pampering begin :)
A short vacation to a place you love might also be on the cards? You deserve it :)
Best of luck :)
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very interesting.
it seems the party is over at iStock.
Or just beginning, as I am fairly certain they knew people would begin uploading again at some point. They knew the anger would would fall prey to sales drops. They knew they would lose some exclusives and that they would not pull their ports (Joanne is an example), leaving a better revenue generating machine for Istock. They knew they would lose buyers and that is okay because those buyers who cannot afford Istock prices are not the kind of customers they want. They knew there would be a decline in buyers in the short term with a longer capture rate of buyers who can afford these low-mid stock prices. They knew that E+, Vetta and Agency (and now P+) would be needed to generate additional revenue from the excommunication of low-tier buyers. They knew that some of these low tier buyers would migrate to Shutterstock so they created Thinkstock in hopes that a percentage of them would migrate to TS...creating a form of customer retention (thank you sir, may I have another). Istock knew that a credit system such as what they invented was necessary in order to put flexibility into their revenue generating machine in case one or more of their new strategies failed. That way they can change the credits "rules", screw the contributors and still meet budget goals...at our expense, of course. I may have missed a few things but to me....in my opinion, Istock is right where they expected to be and does not consider anything they did a failure. Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
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very interesting.
it seems the party is over at iStock.
Or just beginning, as I am fairly certain they knew people would begin uploading again at some point. They knew the anger would would fall prey to sales drops. They knew they would lose some exclusives and that they would not pull their ports (Joanne is an example), leaving a better revenue generating machine for Istock. They knew they would lose buyers and that is okay because those buyers who cannot afford Istock prices are not the kind of customers they want. They knew there would be a decline in buyers in the short term with a longer capture rate of buyers who can afford these low-mid stock prices. They knew that E+, Vetta and Agency (and now P+) would be needed to generate additional revenue from the excommunication of low-tier buyers. They knew that some of these low tier buyers would migrate to Shutterstock so they created Thinkstock in hopes that a percentage of them would migrate to TS...creating a form of customer retention (thank you sir, may I have another). Istock knew that a credit system such as what they invented was necessary in order to put flexibility into their revenue generating machine in case one or more of their new strategies failed. That way they can change the credits "rules", screw the contributors and still meet budget goals...at our expense, of course. I may have missed a few things but to me....in my opinion, Istock is right where they expected to be and does not consider anything they did a failure. Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
In a word, yep
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Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
Except what they fail to take into account is that it is not a new pricing model. It's a model that's been around for a while. And has failed numerous times. Otherwise, the massive success that was iStockPro would still be around and thriving. :D
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Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
Except what they fail to take into account is that it is not a new pricing model. It's a model that's been around for a while. And has failed numerous times. Otherwise, the massive success that was iStockPro would still be around and thriving. :D
What I meant was that it's a new attempt by Istock to build a higher pricing tier that's moving in the direction of midstock. They've not had this tier before, while other may have indeed. ;)
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Or just beginning, as I am fairly certain they knew people would begin uploading again at some point. They knew the anger would would fall prey to sales drops. They knew they would lose some exclusives and that they would not pull their ports (Joanne is an example), leaving a better revenue generating machine for Istock. They knew they would lose buyers and that is okay because those buyers who cannot afford Istock prices are not the kind of customers they want. They knew there would be a decline in buyers in the short term with a longer capture rate of buyers who can afford these low-mid stock prices. They knew that E+, Vetta and Agency (and now P+) would be needed to generate additional revenue from the excommunication of low-tier buyers. They knew that some of these low tier buyers would migrate to Shutterstock so they created Thinkstock in hopes that a percentage of them would migrate to TS...creating a form of customer retention (thank you sir, may I have another). Istock knew that a credit system such as what they invented was necessary in order to put flexibility into their revenue generating machine in case one or more of their new strategies failed. That way they can change the credits "rules", screw the contributors and still meet budget goals...at our expense, of course. I may have missed a few things but to me....in my opinion, Istock is right where they expected to be and does not consider anything they did a failure. Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
Sorry but I think you are giving them far too much credit. I think they've been forced into actions to generate short-term profits because H&F don't care about the long-term future. Unfortunately for them it is not working out and they have lost a huge chunk of market-share. The introduction of P+ was not part of some 'master plan' but a knee-jerk reaction to prop up profits and save embarrassment over the RC targets that they have delayed ... and delayed ... and delayed ... announcing. If Istock were a publically-listed company would you be buying stock now? I know I wouldn't. I'd be anticipating lots of profit warnings in the quarters to come and the share price to react accordingly. They've screwed it up.
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Or just beginning, as I am fairly certain they knew people would begin uploading again at some point. They knew the anger would would fall prey to sales drops. They knew they would lose some exclusives and that they would not pull their ports (Joanne is an example), leaving a better revenue generating machine for Istock. They knew they would lose buyers and that is okay because those buyers who cannot afford Istock prices are not the kind of customers they want. They knew there would be a decline in buyers in the short term with a longer capture rate of buyers who can afford these low-mid stock prices. They knew that E+, Vetta and Agency (and now P+) would be needed to generate additional revenue from the excommunication of low-tier buyers. They knew that some of these low tier buyers would migrate to Shutterstock so they created Thinkstock in hopes that a percentage of them would migrate to TS...creating a form of customer retention (thank you sir, may I have another). Istock knew that a credit system such as what they invented was necessary in order to put flexibility into their revenue generating machine in case one or more of their new strategies failed. That way they can change the credits "rules", screw the contributors and still meet budget goals...at our expense, of course. I may have missed a few things but to me....in my opinion, Istock is right where they expected to be and does not consider anything they did a failure. Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
Sorry but I think you are giving them far too much credit. I think they've been forced into actions to generate short-term profits because H&F don't care about the long-term future. Unfortunately for them it is not working out and they have lost a huge chunk of market-share. The introduction of P+ was not part of some 'master plan' but a knee-jerk reaction to prop up profits and save embarrassment over the RC targets that they have delayed ... and delayed ... and delayed ... announcing. If Istock were a publically-listed company would you be buying stock now? I know I wouldn't. I'd be anticipating lots of profit warnings in the quarters to come and the share price to react accordingly. They've screwed it up.
Could be....it's just interesting to me how everything seems to fit...like the man with five penis's....his pants fit like a glove. :D
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Or just beginning, as I am fairly certain they knew people would begin uploading again at some point. They knew the anger would would fall prey to sales drops. They knew they would lose some exclusives and that they would not pull their ports (Joanne is an example), leaving a better revenue generating machine for Istock. They knew they would lose buyers and that is okay because those buyers who cannot afford Istock prices are not the kind of customers they want. They knew there would be a decline in buyers in the short term with a longer capture rate of buyers who can afford these low-mid stock prices. They knew that E+, Vetta and Agency (and now P+) would be needed to generate additional revenue from the excommunication of low-tier buyers. They knew that some of these low tier buyers would migrate to Shutterstock so they created Thinkstock in hopes that a percentage of them would migrate to TS...creating a form of customer retention (thank you sir, may I have another). Istock knew that a credit system such as what they invented was necessary in order to put flexibility into their revenue generating machine in case one or more of their new strategies failed. That way they can change the credits "rules", screw the contributors and still meet budget goals...at our expense, of course. I may have missed a few things but to me....in my opinion, Istock is right where they expected to be and does not consider anything they did a failure. Slowly, one phase at a time, they are pushing a new pricing model and reinventing themselves.
Sorry but I think you are giving them far too much credit. I think they've been forced into actions to generate short-term profits because H&F don't care about the long-term future. Unfortunately for them it is not working out and they have lost a huge chunk of market-share. The introduction of P+ was not part of some 'master plan' but a knee-jerk reaction to prop up profits and save embarrassment over the RC targets that they have delayed ... and delayed ... and delayed ... announcing. If Istock were a publically-listed company would you be buying stock now? I know I wouldn't. I'd be anticipating lots of profit warnings in the quarters to come and the share price to react accordingly. They've screwed it up.
I think you have a point as well. Awhile back I would have disagreed, because not knowing how well Thinkstock managed to pick up the discontented IStock customers, it would be hard to guess how their strategy was paying off. But I think with recent signs - such as them raising commissions to get more content for Thinkstock, as well as the new Getty contract forcing content onto Thinkstock and combined with the success at ShutterStock recently, I now believe their strategy is failing miserably. All I can say is I'M LOVING EVERY SECOND OF IT.
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I disagree.
From a business prospective Istock is doing more than fine, nobody can blame them for screwing contributors while raising their global pricing, that's exactly what a successful business is meant to be.
Of course the growth can not be perpetual but there is quite a big space to both enlarge their stock market and to launch new products and their new collections clearly show there is a demand for diversification and higher priced photography or "midstock".
The big issue here in my opinion is they now realize more than in the past how much they screw the whole market by themselves : for starters micro images sold for 1$ should be just 1$ crap and not high quality edited material ! this is simply unsustainable and IS is rightfully raising the bar with Vetta etc. Secondly, if you think they're done with stock photos, vectors, and video think again, if they want they can literally start selling anything a designer would ever need : copywriting, fonts, outsourcing projects, assignments, etc in short they will "monetize" their customer base as much as they can, that's exactly what Getty did in the past after all.
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After nine months of not uploading, I'm going to start uploading some new images to istock again. I stopped because of the commission cuts and I'm still annoyed about that but my earnings have fallen so much that I don't think I can keep going with my boycott. I also feel like the last person standing on the picket line after everyone else has gone back to work. If I was earning more money, I would stick to my principles but the price of everything I buy has gone up this year and I really need more income. The Photo+ collection looks like it's going to help and I will fill my remaining quota with new images and then reassess the situation.
Well, seems like I might be one of the last people standing. No more uploads and all but 5 images down until something changes. And I doubt it will, for my good anyway.
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After nine months of not uploading, I'm going to start uploading some new images to istock again. I stopped because of the commission cuts and I'm still annoyed about that but my earnings have fallen so much that I don't think I can keep going with my boycott. I also feel like the last person standing on the picket line after everyone else has gone back to work. If I was earning more money, I would stick to my principles but the price of everything I buy has gone up this year and I really need more income. The Photo+ collection looks like it's going to help and I will fill my remaining quota with new images and then reassess the situation.
Well, seems like I might be one of the last people standing. No more uploads and all but 5 images down until something changes. And I doubt it will, for my good anyway.
You have my respect for sticking to your principles !
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But they at least have a clue when it comes to offering modern file formats and not sticking with the same old antiquated EPS8 standard
I'm not sure why offering Illustrator 10 files rather than 8 makes much difference. Anyone with any real knowledge of Illustrator can pretty much replicate the few extra features that 10 has over 8. It's not the version of the software that's important, it's what you can do as an artist. Creativity and good ideas are far more important than whether an image is produced on an out of date format or a fractionally less out of date one.
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From a business prospective Istock is doing more than fine, nobody can blame them for screwing contributors while raising their global pricing, that's exactly what a successful business is meant to be.
That's exactly the neoliberalistic shortsightedness, that brought us recession. Getty owners are the same as the biggest American bankers that caused global recession.
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
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After nine months of not uploading, I'm going to start uploading some new images to istock again. I stopped because of the commission cuts and I'm still annoyed about that but my earnings have fallen so much that I don't think I can keep going with my boycott. I also feel like the last person standing on the picket line after everyone else has gone back to work. If I was earning more money, I would stick to my principles but the price of everything I buy has gone up this year and I really need more income. The Photo+ collection looks like it's going to help and I will fill my remaining quota with new images and then reassess the situation.
Well, seems like I might be one of the last people standing. No more uploads and all but 5 images down until something changes. And I doubt it will, for my good anyway.
You have my respect for sticking to your principles !
Thanks, nruboc.
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Well, since you have been around since the "good old days", I guess you actually know what might be good for me and my business. NOT! I don't appreciate your calling me stupid or trivializing my decision down to "personal" or "emotional" or whatever other belittling word you choose to use.
Fact is, istock took money away from me. Sales are ever dwindling, not just for me, but for MOST everyone. I chose not to participate there anymore and decided to focus my efforts in other areas. And in fact it has proven to have been a good choice because other sites have more than taken up the slack for my loss of sales, not to mention other photography jobs I have taken. Not to mention getting rid of the whole istock drama out of my life.
One week you are slamming istock too. The next week, your sales take a turn for the better, and suddenly everyone else is stupid. ::)
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One week you are slamming istock too. The next week, your sales take a turn for the better, and suddenly everyone else is stupid. ::)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed the bi-polar posts.
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But they at least have a clue when it comes to offering modern file formats and not sticking with the same old antiquated EPS8 standard
I'm not sure why offering Illustrator 10 files rather than 8 makes much difference. Anyone with any real knowledge of Illustrator can pretty much replicate the few extra features that 10 has over 8. It's not the version of the software that's important, it's what you can do as an artist. Creativity and good ideas are far more important than whether an image is produced on an out of date format or a fractionally less out of date one.
That's always what people who are limited to eps8 say.
Search "eps10" at Shutterstock and tell me you can do all of those effects in eps8. Or if you can, that it's at all worth the time and effort to painstakingly recreate transparency effects in flattened form. Even in cases where it's possible, it can take hours to convert a complex eps10 file to eps8 compatibility.
If it's so easy to do, why don't we see more of the images at SS showing up in eps8 format at istock?
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Yes, respect, did I stutter? I'm happy for you and your "nieched" shots...lol
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I'm not sure why offering Illustrator 10 files rather than 8 makes much difference. Anyone with any real knowledge of Illustrator can pretty much replicate the few extra features that 10 has over 8. It's not the version of the software that's important, it's what you can do as an artist. Creativity and good ideas are far more important than whether an image is produced on an out of date format or a fractionally less out of date one.
Yeah, you can fake those transparency effects, but it doesn't have the same editability. That said, eps 10 didn't really affect me at all, so I can't say it was a big advantage for my portfolio. I can see where it would be great for others though.
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Well, since you have been around since the "good old days", I guess you actually know what might be good for me and my business. NOT! I don't appreciate your calling me stupid or trivializing my decision down to "personal" or "emotional" or whatever other belittling word you choose to use.
Fact is, istock took money away from me. Sales are ever dwindling, not just for me, but for MOST everyone. I chose not to participate there anymore and decided to focus my efforts in other areas. And in fact it has proven to have been a good choice because other sites have more than taken up the slack for my loss of sales, not to mention other photography jobs I have taken. Not to mention getting rid of the whole istock drama out of my life.
One week you are slamming istock too. The next week, your sales take a turn for the better, and suddenly everyone else is stupid. ::)
I tend to agree. You have to go out and try to shape the market to what you want it to be. That's been more of my goal this year. It's a longer road, but I'm starting to see signs as well that it might be worth the sacrifice and effort.
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The path of least resistance seems to work well for me.
"Follow the Yellow Brick Road." ;D
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Yeah, you can fake those transparency effects, but it doesn't have the same editability. That said, eps 10 didn't really affect me at all, so I can't say it was a big advantage for my portfolio. I can see where it would be great for others though.
I'd even argue that some EPS10 transparency effects can't be faked at all in EPS8, at least not without tons of work. Images like this one (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=71498584) would be extremely difficult to fake in EPS8. And even if it were done, like you said editability would be an issue.
For many folks, depending on their style of illustration, EPS8 isn't an issue. Even for me, it's mostly not a problem. But EPS10 does open up lots of possibilities that EPS8 doesn't allow, and it's having a noticeable impact on the collections that do allow EPS10. istock is getting left behind on this one.
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Fact is, istock took money away from me. Sales are ever dwindling, not just for me, but for MOST everyone. I chose not to participate there anymore and decided to focus my efforts in other areas. And in fact it has proven to have been a good choice because other sites have more than taken up the slack for my loss of sales, not to mention other photography jobs I have taken. Not to mention getting rid of the whole istock drama out of my life.
sales are falling simply because of oversupply and there's no way to stop it at the moment unless they take draconian measures and sort the crap out.
even Tony Stone realized this and sold his business to Getty many years ago.
another problem is the so called long tail, there are simply too many similars, too much keyword spam, too many photos online.
it's unsustainable and it can only get worse over time, no wonder people complain that they're losing money despite adding new
material every month.
on the other hand agencies are quite happy about oversupply and see no reason to "fix" the problem, it's out problem, not theirs, if they could they would willingly host a billion pictures online and who cares if contributors are starving or if they need 10.000 photos just to make a couple downloads a day.
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They insist that every pixel be perfect, and in return I am rewarded with ever lower royalties and a continual decline in earnings.
That's my biggest beef with IS. The fact that they require my images to be technically *perfect* for only 16% royalty is nothing but a slap across the face. I admit that I uploaded a few images there about a week ago (for the first time in over 9 months) - but I've since changed my mind and I am continuing my boycott.
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Yes, respect, did I stutter? I'm happy for you and your "nieched" shots...lol
Thanks pal! now go pop a valium or something and dont get your knickers in a twist, doesnt suit you.
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Well, since you have been around since the "good old days", I guess you actually know what might be good for me and my business. NOT! I don't appreciate your calling me stupid or trivializing my decision down to "personal" or "emotional" or whatever other belittling word you choose to use.
Fact is, istock took money away from me. Sales are ever dwindling, not just for me, but for MOST everyone. I chose not to participate there anymore and decided to focus my efforts in other areas. And in fact it has proven to have been a good choice because other sites have more than taken up the slack for my loss of sales, not to mention other photography jobs I have taken. Not to mention getting rid of the whole istock drama out of my life.
One week you are slamming istock too. The next week, your sales take a turn for the better, and suddenly everyone else is stupid. ::)
The good old days, thats a song you know, early Frank Sinatra. Good hey?
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Yes, respect, did I stutter? I'm happy for you and your "nieched" shots...lol
Thanks pal! now go pop a valium or something and dont get your knickers in a twist, doesnt suit you.
Are you upset? Just complimenting you're "nieched" shots..lol
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Yes, respect, did I stutter? I'm happy for you and your "nieched" shots...lol
Thanks pal! now go pop a valium or something and dont get your knickers in a twist, doesnt suit you.
Are you upset? Just complimenting you're "nieched" shots..lol
Nah, youre not big enough to do that, youre a generalist. Sorry.
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The good old days, thats a song you know, early Frank Sinatra. Good hey?
Have you got a reference for that? It's not in his discography.
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only a few months ago I started to understand gostwyck opinions, comments and I have always had the idea that he was "harsh" on words but I have seen a big change on his caracter or perhaps I am understanding more.. THIS to tell that he is soft comparing to lagereek, I am wondering if you have been punished on your childhood or if you have a lot of bad days.. I am tired of your arrogance always full of yourself like you are the second yuri arcurs but no generalist world but a nieche photog.. sorry to tell you this but I cannot continue on this forum without saying what goes in my mind, again from a kid with 27 years old and a cheap camera, be more humble
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Respect??? No, in fact its stupid not to upload, really. Never put personal before business. I just havent got the time anymore, my shots are very nieched and you have to go back, two, three times, chase releases and everything, too much work for the shots to just hang-in there, way back in search.
Thats my reason for not uploading. To ride on some personal issue, is not very clever.
Yes, respect, did I stutter? I'm happy for you and your "nieched" shots...lol
Thanks pal! now go pop a valium or something and dont get your knickers in a twist, doesnt suit you.
Are you upset? Just complimenting you're "nieched" shots..lol
Nah, youre not big enough to do that, youre a generalist. Sorry.
I know, I know maybe I should try to be more "nieched" like you. You're my new idol.
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surrender yourself to the sad fact that nowadays anyone can do microstock and the supply greatly exceeds demand.
i'm more and more interested in fine-art and art galleries, after all i've always been a creative and not much cut for cheesy microstock-like studio and business shoots.
nothing against studio shoots but if today this means getting paid 1$ per download we must realize this sort of photography is simply going down the drain and it's getting worse and worse.
clients complain about rising prices, photographers about miserable 15% royalties, let's face it this is a dying business unless you can produce industrial quantities of images per year just to stay afloat.
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the issue here is putting down people who does studio, people, lifestyle, business, food, whatever.. the pictures make the photographer, not exactly the subject you are approaching.. and nobody as the right to tell that it is better/worst/easier whatever, there are tons of subjects and everybody does what they like and what works in their way of looking at stock, sales etc etc..
if you have the chance to shoot oil rigs and shooting up on the sky on helicopter, man thats cool but that doesn´t make you better than other, the pictures yes can make you better but that´s another thing and I do appreciate looking at gorgeous pictures, I am sure I will do them sometime!
some people are more humble, other are more the kind of show off.. but hell there is place for another Yuri but I am not interested, that doesnt mean I don´t have the respect for his work or other, I do and wish you all guys a lot of luck and work too, just be cool and you will get a lot more "fans"
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Nah, youre not big enough to do that, youre a generalist. Sorry.
Cool story bro!
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only a few months ago I started to understand gostwyck opinions, comments and I have always had the idea that he was "harsh" on words but I have seen a big change on his caracter or perhaps I am understanding more.. THIS to tell that he is soft comparing to lagereek, I am wondering if you have been punished on your childhood or if you have a lot of bad days.. I am tired of your arrogance always full of yourself like you are the second yuri arcurs but no generalist world but a nieche photog.. sorry to tell you this but I cannot continue on this forum without saying what goes in my mind, again from a kid with 27 years old and a cheap camera, be more humble
You must have some sort of Yuri complex ?? youre alway stating and comparing everything to him, you even questioned in a thread why he wasnt engaging in P+. Leave the guy alone. As for understanding me? dont bother, just ease down a bit.
Im half british, spent 25 years in London, still go there about 10 times a year, our humor is famous for sarcasm but in the best of spirits. You pay too much attention to verbals.
Now, just want to tell you that as a mini-Yuri, I have just graduated from an Instamtic to a new Holga camera, with a digital Phaseone back, the Holga-back with 65MP. So my gear isnt all that pretencious, is it.
Im a nice guy actually, just ask the Swedenborgian society.
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Now, just want to tell you that as a mini-Yuri, I have just graduated from an Instamtic to a new Holga camera, with a digital Phaseone back, the Holga-back with 65MP. So my gear isnt all that pretencious, is it.
Was the Phase One back made to fit or did you have to adapt it? I love Holga imagery but I'm not so sure I could ever justify buying a Phase One back for it - Nik filters do a fine job for me! :)
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...Im half british, spent 25 years in London, still go there about 10 times a year, our humor is famous for sarcasm but in the best of spirits. You pay too much attention to verbals...
I'm 100% British and have a really sarcastic sense of humour but I sometimes struggle with it in forums. I think it works much better in real life, when you can tell when someone is having a laugh much easier than you can with written words. And there's lots of people here that seem to take every word literally, even with liberal use of :) :) :) :) :)
Perhaps we should use (SARCASM) brackets?
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People often confuse sarcasm and irony. English humour is certainly often about irony. Sarcasm is almost invariably deliberately caustic.
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Perhaps we should use (SARCASM) brackets?
i've the same issue with the yanks...
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...Im half british, spent 25 years in London, still go there about 10 times a year, our humor is famous for sarcasm but in the best of spirits. You pay too much attention to verbals...
I'm 100% British and have a really sarcastic sense of humour but I sometimes struggle with it in forums. I think it works much better in real life, when you can tell when someone is having a laugh much easier than you can with written words. And there's lots of people here that seem to take every word literally, even with liberal use of :) :) :) :) :)
Perhaps we should use (SARCASM) brackets?
Youre dead right! very, very few understand this kind of humor outside the British domains and can easily take offence. Mind you I much rather prefer that then the almost naive and rather silly American humor or should I say lack of humor.
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Perhaps we should use (SARCASM) brackets?
i've the same issue with the yanks...
Me too. A great example that illustrates the difference is Top Gear (TV show) and Top Gear US. The latter is just so "watered down", boring, dull, just because they're are a nation so trembling of potential lawsuits. So much political correctness, that it makes you sick. And so sensitive. That is offensive! You hurt my feelings! LOL! Top Gear wouldn't be what it is without the sarcasm, without being offensive and edgy. Do you imagine the presenter in any US show calling someone an idiot directly in his face for not agreeing with him (it was meant as a joke and it was taken as such). Do you imagine calling it what it is and even exaggerating? For instance saying it's an appallingly looking car, total rubbish. And at the end of the show they do get sometimes lawsuit threats, but of course nobody files them, because GB (and Europe) truly has a freedom of speech and tolerance (the tolerance for someone being a bit intolerant if it's meant as a joke).
I use sarcasm a lot, I'm being offensive (in a top gear style, so anyone intelligent enough and not overly sensible get it and laughs at it) and str8 to the point. Not here though (or rarely), because I know that I'll be attacked by a few yanks immediately and it's just not worth it. Just a couple of days ago someone attacked me for being idiotic and offensive to Lisa, because the mentally deficient individual couldn't get what I wrote and it wasn't even sarcastic. They're so burdened with political correctness, that they come out with new words for minorities living in the US almost every year. One year a black man is OK to use, the other it's (almost) not acceptable, because they thought of a new one, African-American (it's certainly not new anymore).
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indeed, when they ban me from a forum it's usually run by americans.
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Me too. A great example that illustrates the difference is Top Gear (TV show) and Top Gear US. The latter is just so "watered down", boring, dull, just because they're are a nation so trembling of potential lawsuits. So much political correctness, that it makes you sick. And so sensitive. That is offensive! You hurt my feelings! LOL! Top Gear wouldn't be what it is without the sarcasm, without being offensive and edgy. Do you imagine the presenter in any US show calling someone an idiot directly in his face for not agreeing with him (it was meant as a joke and it was taken as such). Do you imagine calling it what it is and even exaggerating? For instance saying it's an appallingly looking car, total rubbish. And at the end of the show they do get sometimes lawsuit threats, but of course nobody files them, because GB (and Europe) truly has a freedom of speech and tolerance (the tolerance for someone being a bit intolerant if it's meant as a joke).
Actually, the reason is quite different. The UK is also ridden with the desire to be politically correct. Before the heady days of Smart Boards, my weans would come into S1 (first year high school) and scream at me for referring to the blackboard or the whiteboard, their primary teachers had told them to say 'chalk board' or 'dry wipe board', and even that I couldn't refer to 'coloured pencils', their primary teacher (that seemed to be only one teacher in one of our feeder primaries) had told them to call them 'rainbow pencils'. I kid you not.
Back to Top Gear. The reason Clarkson et al get off with all the tongue in cheek stuff is that the prog is put out by the Beeb, who don't have advertisers to sook up to. If it were on e.g. ITV, they would no doubt be aiming at car advertisers and would have to tone down their comments and criticisms accordingly. Anyway, in the UK, we're far more interested in Clarkson's (alleged) adulteries.
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Me too. A great example that illustrates the difference is Top Gear (TV show) and Top Gear US. The latter is just so "watered down", boring, dull, just because they're are a nation so trembling of potential lawsuits. So much political correctness, that it makes you sick. And so sensitive. That is offensive! You hurt my feelings! LOL! Top Gear wouldn't be what it is without the sarcasm, without being offensive and edgy. Do you imagine the presenter in any US show calling someone an idiot directly in his face for not agreeing with him (it was meant as a joke and it was taken as such). Do you imagine calling it what it is and even exaggerating? For instance saying it's an appallingly looking car, total rubbish. And at the end of the show they do get sometimes lawsuit threats, but of course nobody files them, because GB (and Europe) truly has a freedom of speech and tolerance (the tolerance for someone being a bit intolerant if it's meant as a joke).
Actually, the reason is quite different. The UK is also ridden with the desire to be politically correct. Before the heady days of Smart Boards, my weans would come into S1 (first year high school) and scream at me for referring to the blackboard or the whiteboard, their primary teachers had told them to say 'chalk board' or 'dry wipe board', and even that I couldn't refer to 'coloured pencils', their primary teacher (that seemed to be only one teacher in one of our feeder primaries) had told them to call them 'rainbow pencils'. I kid you not.
Back to Top Gear. The reason Clarkson et al get off with all the tongue in cheek stuff is that the prog is put out by the Beeb, who don't have advertisers to sook up to. If it were on e.g. ITV, they would no doubt be aiming at car advertisers and would have to tone down their comments and criticisms accordingly. Anyway, in the UK, we're far more interested in Clarkson's (alleged) adulteries.
Ok so there are cases of political correctness. But it is a DESIRE to be politically correct. Most people or nation(s) (not sure what is correct in the case of UK) is not politically correct (at least from my limited experience) and they sure can understand humour, dark one and sarcasm as well. And this teachers are, as you stated just isolated incidents. I wanted to mention that in the previous post, I got a rejected keyword once and it was the word colored (for a multicolored or colorful image, I don't even remember anymore). That just crossed the limit of absurdness and just how far that political correctness goes and how incredibly stupid it is.
Then I'm really happy Beeb exists;). Oh yeah, what about Giggs (that's relatively fresh) or Rooney getting a hair transplant lol. I just love Clarkson's sense of humour, intelligent and sarcastic (the other 2 are not bad either). I really wouldn't watch it for the cars, it would be like watching fifth gear. Or even worse, Top Gear US :o :) . For all I care, he can cheat on his wife hourly and I'd still be his fan, as well as Gerrard's (who's not cheating, but if he would be) etc. Their personal life is their business and really none of ours.
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indeed, when they ban me from a forum it's usually run by americans.
Hard to believe! but Ive never been banned from a forum as such. FT has banned me but they got the wrong end of the stick, I think they actually thought of somebody elses thread?
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I really wouldn't watch it for the cars, it would be like watching fifth gear.
Oh, absolutely. I'm not remotely interested in cars, but I started watching it closetly several years back. I never let on to anyone until they did a piece on how to pass the driving rest in India: start, go forward, turn left, stop - that's it, or was at the time. The next day at work all my colleagues were talking about it, even my pals whose only interest in cars, like my own, is that they get you from A to B without bits falling off. And every single class I had over the next two days somehow brought it up in one context or another, which is when I realised how popular it is.
On a different thread, Richard Hammond's engineering Connections series is also brilliant, though totally different.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hvtgh (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hvtgh), though I'm pretty sure you can't use the iPlayer outside the UK.
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No it doesn't work outside UK (Haven't try using a proxy yet). I'll try to find a way.
Did you watch some of Clarkson's solo movies? This one rocks, though it's not for the sensitive yanks, since he really, really doesn't have anything positive to say about America and especially their cars (a lot of sarcasm&cynicism) Jeremy Clarkson-The Good, the Bad and the Ugly part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZXZkW1N3Ig#). But I would recommend watching it to the yanks, so they could toughen up and start to think more in sync with the rest of the world, loose at least some of the political correctness and oversensitivity. They might even start playing rugby, the way real man do, not like a bunch of girls using all that armor and helmets (yes I mean American football) :P
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It's true, we're an oversensitive bunch. And everyone is ready to sue everyone else when we're offended by something. :)
Seriously, one of the reasons I hate doing client work these days is that I'll often have to deal with someone's lawyer. Everyone has a lawyer just to protect themselves, because everyone is afraid of either getting sued by someone or getting pissed off enough at someone else to need to sue them. I'm seriously considering making it a new policy that I won't work with anyone who wants to waste my time dealing with their lawyer(s). Or I'll have to add a lawyer fee to invoices.
Clarkson isn't far off on his assessment of the U.S. We're a fast-food guzzling culture and we sure as hell don't know much about making good quality cars. I think my Jeep is entirely made of melted down action figures.
Anyone outside the U.S. seen Jamie Oliver's show? He's trying to bring decent food into U.S. schools and get us over our fast food obsession. And of course he's being met with a lot of opposition, some straight from the school districts.
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It's true, we're an oversensitive bunch. And everyone is ready to sue everyone else when we're offended by something. :)
Seriously, one of the reasons I hate doing client work these days is that I'll often have to deal with someone's lawyer. Everyone has a lawyer just to protect themselves, because everyone is afraid of either getting sued by someone or getting pissed off enough at someone else to need to sue them. I'm seriously considering making it a new policy that I won't work with anyone who wants to waste my time dealing with their lawyer(s). Or I'll have to add a lawyer fee to invoices.
Clarkson isn't far off on his assessment of the U.S. We're a fast-food guzzling culture and we sure as hell don't know much about making good quality cars. I think my Jeep is entirely made of melted down action figures.
Anyone outside the U.S. seen Jamie Oliver's show? He's trying to bring decent food into U.S. schools and get us over our fast food obsession. And of course he's being met with a lot of opposition, some straight from the school districts.
Wow man, that's really big of you! Thumbs up, for that post!
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They might even start playing rugby, the way real man do, not like a bunch of girls using all that armor and helmets (yes I mean American football) :P
Ooooh, Sexism alert. Women rugby players don't wear armour and helmets:
http://tinyurl.com/6f6taue (http://tinyurl.com/6f6taue)
Neither do primary schoolgirls when they play rounders, which the USians call baseball. ;)
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only a few months ago I started to understand gostwyck opinions, comments and I have always had the idea that he was "harsh" on words but I have seen a big change on his caracter or perhaps I am understanding more.. THIS to tell that he is soft comparing to lagereek, I am wondering if you have been punished on your childhood or if you have a lot of bad days.. I am tired of your arrogance always full of yourself like you are the second yuri arcurs but no generalist world but a nieche photog.. sorry to tell you this but I cannot continue on this forum without saying what goes in my mind, again from a kid with 27 years old and a cheap camera, be more humble
You must have some sort of Yuri complex ?? youre alway stating and comparing everything to him, you even questioned in a thread why he wasnt engaging in P+. Leave the guy alone. As for understanding me? dont bother, just ease down a bit.
Im half british, spent 25 years in London, still go there about 10 times a year, our humor is famous for sarcasm but in the best of spirits. You pay too much attention to verbals.
Now, just want to tell you that as a mini-Yuri, I have just graduated from an Instamtic to a new Holga camera, with a digital Phaseone back, the Holga-back with 65MP. So my gear isnt all that pretencious, is it.
Im a nice guy actually, just ask the Swedenborgian society.
sorry but I haven´t questioned anything about this photo+ wasn´t the person who asked that and if you want to know I hate the way he shows off but that´s his business to get free light, free tripod, free whatever, I just don´t like showing off people, end of story
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Youre dead right! very, very few understand this kind of humor outside the British domains and can easily take offence. Mind you I much rather prefer that then the almost naive and rather silly American humor or should I say lack of humor.
Oh, come on now. Cut us "yanks" a break. Quite a few of us manage to negotiate the sarcastic/ironic waters around here just fine, and even join in with some zingers of our own ;D
FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ETA: Good on you Mike for proving that a lot of us have a sense of humor. Are we surrounded by idiots for the most part? Yes. But isn't everyone?
Serious question - those of you in Britain and the rest of Europe - don't you find many of your fellow countrymen lacking in common sense or humor at times?
I think it's more an issue of individual personality than national culture. Maybe I'm wrong?
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only a few months ago I started to understand gostwyck opinions, comments and I have always had the idea that he was "harsh" on words but I have seen a big change on his caracter or perhaps I am understanding more.. THIS to tell that he is soft comparing to lagereek, I am wondering if you have been punished on your childhood or if you have a lot of bad days.. I am tired of your arrogance always full of yourself like you are the second yuri arcurs but no generalist world but a nieche photog.. sorry to tell you this but I cannot continue on this forum without saying what goes in my mind, again from a kid with 27 years old and a cheap camera, be more humble
+1
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My opinion ?
Big car == small dick.
As for fast food i guess it's only a matter of price and lack of spare time.
It's unclear why yanks eat so much s-hit considering fruit, vegs, and meat are of first choice there
and there's also decente californian wine.
I blame the british founding fathers for the bad food manners in USA.
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well i prefer to take the risk of being sued for nothing rather than the certainty of having to wait a few years before even going in court as in europe.
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As for fast food i guess it's only a matter of price and lack of spare time.
It's unclear why yanks eat so much s-hit considering fruit, vegs, and meat are of first choice there
and there's also decente californian wine.
Are eating habits so different in Halifax? ;)
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Youre dead right! very, very few understand this kind of humor outside the British domains and can easily take offence. Mind you I much rather prefer that then the almost naive and rather silly American humor or should I say lack of humor.
Oh, come on now. Cut us "yanks" a break. Quite a few of us manage to negotiate the sarcastic/ironic waters around here just fine, and even join in with some zingers of our own ;D
FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ETA: Good on you Mike for proving that a lot of us have a sense of humor. Are we surrounded by idiots for the most part? Yes. But isn't everyone?
Serious question - those of you in Britain and the rest of Europe - don't you find many of your fellow countrymen lacking in common sense or humor at times?
I think it's more an issue of individual personality than national culture. Maybe I'm wrong?
Hi Lisa! you have a great sense of humor and a very eloquent one if I may say, your posting in the IS forum against JB, is truly superb!
So LUIS, is Russian! no wonder I wasted my time, mind his English writing is pretty good, well at least for being Russian.
The Swedes, are truly the most boring and self-rightious people in the world, this little Mickey-Mouse country actually think they can solve the worlds problems in a nutshell.
They havent been involved in a war for over 300 years! and thats why they are a suicidal nation.
Oh and you should nsee when I apply British humor in Sweden, jeez, its more fun on a graveyard.
When I said American humor, what I meant was all these canned laughter sitcoms, they keep torturing us with.
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As for fast food i guess it's only a matter of price and lack of spare time.
It's unclear why yanks eat so much s-hit considering fruit, vegs, and meat are of first choice there
and there's also decente californian wine.
Are eating habits so different in Halifax? ;)
no idea but cartainly they are in old europe, middle east, asia, oceania, south america.
but again, it's strange, i've met many americans only eating junk food, others following a strict
vegan diet (no eggs no fish !), some lunatics even abolished sugar and salt from the diet,
but why they just don't cook fresh vegs and fresh fish and meat ?
i mean if you look at the aussies they're all usually in good shape and eating fresh, despite
their traditional dishes are quite similar to england and america.
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swedes are pretty funny, the boring ones are eventually the Finns and the Belgians and sometimes the brits when they're sober ho ho ho ;D
mickey mouse country, oh really ... go there first and see by yourself, stockholm for instance, the paris of the north...
not to generalize but the problem in sweden is they've become a bunch of feminist liberal hippie as-ho-les.
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okay, you're stereotypes and badmouthing of every nationality is getting old. I dont think we all fit neatly into your mold of how terrible everyone is. we are all unique. can we move on - either back on topic or go start a thread in the off-topic to discuss your views.
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FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ETA: Good on you Mike for proving that a lot of us have a sense of humor. Are we surrounded by idiots for the most part? Yes. But isn't everyone?
Serious question - those of you in Britain and the rest of Europe - don't you find many of your fellow countrymen lacking in common sense or humor at times?
I think it's more an issue of individual personality than national culture. Maybe I'm wrong?
I though he was from Portugal:s. It probably was a joke if he said he was Russian.
Sometimes I do, usually those sensitive sissies, who think I'm going to far or being rude. And of course, dumb people usually don't get me. But usually I don't have problems people getting my jokes and yes usually I have problems with yanks for the reasons mentioned in this thread. U (yanks) have other qualities, don't worry. You personally might have a great sense of humor, I don't know you, but lagereek says you do. When it comes to yanks and humour, I absolutely love Carlos Mencia (ok not a yank really, but he did become a US citizen), really rude, str8 to the point, exactly the kind of humor I love and use. Check this out Carlos Mencia - Not For The Easily Offended Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1JJcrNDjg#). He's making fun of gay ppl, stupid/naive, black, white, latin, everybody. And of course he proves my point (and of the other brits and europeans in this thread), by warning ppl at the start of the show that it's not for the easily offended, stating reasons why and that they should leave if they can stand it. The second one is George Carlin, a really smart guy, talking about politics, religion etc (str8 to the point, rude by american standards etc), the third Dave Chapelle (black ppl usually make me laugh, they have great sense of humour.
Nations do have "personalities", don't they? Like being Imperialistic, or known to be cheap, or suicidal, drunks, happy, melancholic...
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swedes are pretty funny, the boring ones are eventually the Finns and the Belgians and sometimes the brits when they're sober ho ho ho ;D
mickey mouse country, oh really ... go there first and see by yourself, stockholm for instance, the paris of the north...
not to generalize but the problem in sweden is they've become a bunch of feminist liberal hippie as-ho-les.
Ho, ho, I am Swedish, I got myself a farm here now, came back from London in 95, Im born and bread in Stockholm and youre right Stockholm is wonderful but the people? dont know about that, the girls!! well thats something else.
The Americans are the friendliest and most hospitable people.
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When I said American humor, what I meant was all these canned laughter sitcoms, they keep torturing us with.
LOL! I know what you mean there. I can't watch that drivel either. :P
Thank God for HBO, Showtime, and BBC America. Without them I would have to give up watching TV entirely.
@Slovenian - yes, Carlos Mencia is funny. Here's my opinion on that type of humor - I call it the "funny to mean ratio"(copyright Lisafx ;) ). A comedian can say ANYTHING, no matter how offensive, as long as it is at least as funny as it is mean. The meaner it is, the funnier it has to be to compensate. If the funny to mean ratio is off, the joke doesn't work. When some of these jerks just get up and insult everyone, but the jokes aren't that funny, they come off looking like ass(arse)holes.
Ricky Gervais (British) is a good example. His jokes are harsh. But he is so funny it makes up for it. But he does skate close to the edge. Some of his jokes barely make it over the F2M threshold.
Gregg Geraldo, who just died recently, was the king of that. His jokes cut to the bone. He could tear someone apart. Watching him on those Friars Club roasts, he was frickin hilarious. We'd be doubled over laughing so hard we were in pain. So were his victims. He was "mean" but so funny that it was entirely forgivable.
Gilbert Gottfried - another example. Here's my favorite Gilbert Gottfried joke. Also on the funnier side of the F2M ratio.
The Olsen Twins Walk Into A Bar (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/858076#)
I think it's hard to ascribe one particular set of humor or values in the USA. Our demographics are constantly changing. We have people from all different cultures. They are all "American" but all bring the attitudes of their countries or cultures of origin with them. Believe me, we are NOT all Sarah Palin. Shudder!
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@Slovenian - yes, Carlos Mencia is funny. Here's my opinion on that type of humor - I call it the "funny to mean ratio"(copyright Lisafx ;) ). A comedian can say ANYTHING, no matter how offensive, as long as it is at least as funny as it is mean. The meaner it is, the funnier it has to be to compensate. If the funny to mean ratio is off, the joke doesn't work. When some of these jerks just get up and insult everyone, but the jokes aren't that funny, they come off looking like ass(arse)holes.
I completely agree.
I'll check them out. You mentioned TV and sitcoms, I can recommend you a few. All of them English. My fav Peep show, the best of english humour really, a nearly pi$$ed my pants a few times, this is one of my fav episodes (the next one is equally hilarious, just not that sick) Peep Show - Season 4 Episode 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Za1JOa65k#noexternalembed). Then you have That Mitchell and Webb look (the same 2 guys, different approach, sketches), Black books and IT crowd are pretty cool as well. The bottom line is, NOTHING tops english humour;)
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I really like 'Parks & Recreation'. Fantastic US comedy. Stereotyping nationalities is silly.
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I really like 'Parks & Recreation'. Fantastic US comedy. Stereotyping nationalities is silly.
I love that one too. Love The Office (British and American versions) too. Their format does'nt use a laugh track, thank God. They don't need to. People can figure out when to laugh if the show is actually funny :D
Slovenian, never heard of Peep Show. I will definitely check it out. Still home recovering from surgery and bored out of my mind. Some good laughs will be most welcome medicine!
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FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ROTF ;D
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Here's my opinion on that type of humor - I call it the "funny to mean ratio"(copyright Lisafx ;) ). A comedian can say ANYTHING, no matter how offensive, as long as it is at least as funny as it is mean. The meaner it is, the funnier it has to be to compensate. If the funny to mean ratio is off, the joke doesn't work. When some of these jerks just get up and insult everyone, but the jokes aren't that funny, they come off looking like ass(arse)holes.
That is so true. Some people are as mean as they can get and use "being funny" as an excuse to justify their meanness. And honesty is another frequently used excuse. It's like if you are being "honest" you have the right to say anything, no matter how cruel. That is one of the reasons I hate those reality shows so much, particularly the ones on VH1.
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well that's exactly what the british medias are doing since the last century : bashing foreign countries in any way so the message that comes out is that britain is not so bad in the end, typical psy-op ... now they target muslims and middle east in particular, tomorrow it will china and who knows.
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"being funny" ? in most of the cases they're just plain racist and haters.
it's an open secret that in the end western people all hate each other for good or for silly reasons.
yanks seem to top the list of most hated country, thought, especially in europe.
most friendly, i would say the aussies and the canadians.
but hey i understand it's not easy to get along with us europeans, we love our small "mickey mouse" countries, they're full of personalities, thousands of years of history, if the yanks don't understand it's their problem, not ours.
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yanks seem to top the list of most hated country, thought, especially in europe.
Meh. You're just jealous. ;)
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I really like some of the US humour. Richard Pryor was a legend, I've always liked Oliver Hardy. Woody Allen has made some of the funniest films I have ever seen. I loved Curb Your Enthusiasm and Seinfeld. Cheers and Fraser were good, as was 3rd Rock From The Sun and The Big Bang Theory. Friends became tedious and that's about where I draw the line. Not bad for such a small country :)
Clarkson is great, the episode where they went to the US and painted offensive slogans on their cars was hilarious.
I think that for every person in Europe that doesn't like the US, there's someone that loves it. I don't think that most people from Europe hate the US. Give them a free holiday in Florida and I bet they wont turn it down. If there was a vote in the UK to make us choose between the US and Europe, I think the US would win. Unfortunately the press here are very ant-European. As a lot of the press is run by Rupert Murdoch, that's not surprising.
We're all related anyway. The UK was invaded by lots of European countries, then lots of them got on boats and went to form the USA.
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And honesty is another frequently used excuse. It's like if you are being "honest" you have the right to say anything, no matter how cruel
Exactly, that's why it's called honesty. If you hear only what you like, it's hypocrisy. I'm all for honesty, at least I know where I'm at. Better than to hear later on what ppl are talking behind your back and really think about you. You don't waste time with ppl you don't get along with for instance. Or you know your pants are appalling. Sure it may not be nice hearing it from your friends, but still better than go out wearing them and be laughing stock in the club ;)
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yanks seem to top the list of most hated country, thought, especially in europe.
Meh. You're just jealous. ;)
And even more especially in the whole muslim world. And Vietnam, Korea (at least North) and in most countirs of Latin America. I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
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Clarkson is great, the episode where they went to the US and painted offensive slogans on their cars was hilarious.
See that's where you are wrong. That's another proof of oversensitivity. Why is Hillary for the president offensive, or gay pride/love (not sure which it was)? Next thing I hear will be:"Tea party activists blew a van (with ppl in it) advertising Obama's 2012 campaign, because they found the slogan Obama for the president offensive :D
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^^^I didn't say they were offensive to me but the people chasing them with guns obviously took offence. I think one of them was "NASCAR Sucks", I find that more factual than offensive :)
Of course Top Gear is more of a comedy programme than one about cars and I'm sure they sometimes make things seem much worse in the edit but it was very well done.
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They certainly did. Well they were deep in Redneck land, so it's to be expected. Lol, how much they love making fun of them. Like none of them spoke English, just hillbilly. Or this one is priceless, Clarkson on Mustang:"I'd like this car if I were the kind of person who looks at his sister and says MMMMMMM." ROFL!!!!. Factual indeed (Nascar), but so can one say for F1 in the last 5 years, well at least they don't drive in circles for two (or how long?) hours.
That's why I'm watching it. Well mostly, destroying tyres on Bentleys and such by burning them out is fun as well and I'm not sure there is another show that can test so many exclusive supersports cars, especially not head to head. And Challenges rock too! It really is entertainment over the whole car testing thing.
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I really like some of the US humour. Richard Pryor was a legend, I've always liked Oliver Hardy. Woody Allen has made some of the funniest films I have ever seen. I loved Curb Your Enthusiasm and Seinfeld. Cheers and Fraser were good, as was 3rd Rock From The Sun and The Big Bang Theory. Friends became tedious and that's about where I draw the line. Not bad for such a small country :)
Clarkson is great, the episode where they went to the US and painted offensive slogans on their cars was hilarious.
I think that for every person in Europe that doesn't like the US, there's someone that loves it. I don't think that most people from Europe hate the US. Give them a free holiday in Florida and I bet they wont turn it down. If there was a vote in the UK to make us choose between the US and Europe, I think the US would win. Unfortunately the press here are very ant-European. As a lot of the press is run by Rupert Murdoch, that's not surprising.
We're all related anyway. The UK was invaded by lots of European courtiers, then lots of them got on boats and went to form the USA.
Oh yes, but these guys are legends! no matter what, if I really want a good laugh, John-Cleese in fawlty-Towers, is unbelieavable, take that episode with the German visitors and he starts his goose-step business, old stuff but classics.
Same with Chaplin and Stan & Laurell, they are just legends.
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Clarkson on Americans Clarkson on Americans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHJkB-wHLw#). Asking them if they can name a few European contries Clarkson & Americans On Europe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJXmecIR5PQ#). On 70s American cars Funny! 1970s American cars - damning review: Jeremy Clarkson's Motorworld - BBC autos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzpx_jUUA0#ws). And generally why amerian cars are horrible Clarkson: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: Why American cars are horrible. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnVbYaaIY8#ws). Man I'm glad we started this thread, I found some interesting stuff I haven't seen before or already forgot about it:D
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Meh. You're just jealous. ;)
hahaha come to old europe and open your mind, see where you come from and touch the real deal instead of living in a cheap imitation.
you're a rebel colony, a spoiled kid.
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yanks seem to top the list of most hated country, thought, especially in europe.
Meh. You're just jealous. ;)
And even more especially in the whole muslim world. And Vietnam, Korea (at least North) and in most countirs of Latin America. I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
i travel a lot and most of the yanks i meet when dealing with the locals claim to be canadians...
the only good yanks i know are american expats living and working in europe.
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Paris, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Praha, Budapest, Belgrade, Athens, Moscow, Madrid, Barcelona, Venice, Rome, Florence ... and this just to make a few names ... what . you have in the U$A ... Boston, Houston, Miami, LA, NY, Seattle, Chicago ... hmmm packing them up together they aren't worth of Peru or Uruguay alone...
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Look at his face in this one.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0PDkfBgC_w[/youtube]
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I don´t miss a top gear episode, they know how to enjoy themselves :P
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I almost missed this thread, I think the title put me off ;)
While we're on the subject of humour. America has had some great comedians. I remember watching Bill Hicks and Denis Leary on vhs probably, at Uni. and they absolutely cracked me up. Hence it always bemuses me why so many Americans (not all of them of course) don't get things which are obviously humorous. Why do so many of them take what u say literally. I always have to put "I'm joking", after a sentence, as I know there is a good chance of them not getting it. Maybe leaf should put flags of our countries besides our usernames, so it's easier for people to figure out if the comment is likely to be serious or not. :)
I have relatives in the states and until the age of 14, I went there quite often. I remember watching a film there with my sis. and even though I was probably no more than 10, the subtle jokes in the film which were really quite funny, me and my sister were laughing, but kept on feeling awkward as nobody else was. When the gory, shocking moments of the film came, a lot of the audience were laughing. This is such a distinct memory as it was so surreal.
I've tried to embed a video here, but can't figure out how to do it, but you can see it on my blog. The British guy is completely making fun of the American, as he is taking (intentionally) everything the American says literally and the American guy just doesn't know how to react, or really realise that the Brit is doing nothing but having a laugh. It's hilarious! I think it is important to master understanding humour and learn not to take yourself too seriously. Americans may be great at so many things but they are usually second best to the British when it comes to humour.
http://www.microstockposts.com/bing-the-decision-engine-powered-by-google/ (http://www.microstockposts.com/bing-the-decision-engine-powered-by-google/)
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I don´t miss a top gear episode, they know how to enjoy themselves :P
It's incredibly well done to look totally unrehearsed and just like a Boys' Own romp.
This is pretty much it:
Top Gear season 13 trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yoKhOIlXhk#)
And this:
Top Gear Series 14 Trailer 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP828bOn7MU#ws)
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yeah, yanks often take themselves way too seriously but i can understand them after all, america as a whole is a giant social experiment, nobody clearly knows where it's heading with its social and scholar and economic system, the "american man" as we know it might pretty well be replaced by a more sober person when the s-hit will hit the fan over there.
good apples and bad apples, no problem wit hit, what i really can't stand is their absurd in-your-face nationalism, jesus i haven't seen such things even when traveling in communist and socialist countries, my impression is their nationalism is fostered a lot by the government itself as it's the only real value after money that keep them all united under the same flag.
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And honesty is another frequently used excuse. It's like if you are being "honest" you have the right to say anything, no matter how cruel
Exactly, that's why it's called honesty. If you hear only what you like, it's hypocrisy. I'm all for honesty, at least I know where I'm at. Better than to hear later on what ppl are talking behind your back and really think about you. You don't waste time with ppl you don't get along with for instance. Or you know your pants are appalling. Sure it may not be nice hearing it from your friends, but still better than go out wearing them and be laughing stock in the club ;)
Being honest can still be done with diplomacy. It doesn't mean you have to pick the cruelest and nastiest form of delivery that you can think of.
EDIT: And usually, with the cruel and nasty types, it's not even about being honest, it's about making other people feel bad so they can feel better about themselves.
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And honesty is another frequently used excuse. It's like if you are being "honest" you have the right to say anything, no matter how cruel
Exactly, that's why it's called honesty. If you hear only what you like, it's hypocrisy. I'm all for honesty, at least I know where I'm at. Better than to hear later on what ppl are talking behind your back and really think about you. You don't waste time with ppl you don't get along with for instance. Or you know your pants are appalling. Sure it may not be nice hearing it from your friends, but still better than go out wearing them and be laughing stock in the club ;)
Being honest can still be done with diplomacy. It doesn't mean you have to pick the cruelest and nastiest form of delivery that you can think of.
Am I allowed a +1 on an istock thread?
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good apples and bad apples, no problem wit hit, what i really can't stand is their absurd in-your-face nationalism, jesus i haven't seen such things even when traveling in communist and socialist countries, my impression is their nationalism is fostered a lot by the government itself as it's the only real value after money that keep them all united under the same flag.
There are a lot of Americans who embarrassed by that, actually, present company included.
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Indeed Sue and they have the best job in the world. I'd also want never to grow up :)
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FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ROTF ;D
Ah. Okay. So you were screwing with us. I thought Luis Santos was an odd name for a Russian, but the iron curtain's been down for a couple of decades so anything's possible. Without emoticons how are we supposed to know?
Glad you got a laugh out of it anyway :)
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I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
Very nice. How are Americans supposed to broaden our world view and stop being so nationalistic if we are forced to stay home in our isolationist little world because people like you want to convince us we are all under threat of our lives every time we leave the country?
My daughter is going to be traveling to Europe in the next few weeks. Are you saying I should fear for her life?!! Maybe I should keep her locked in her room so ignorant, bigoted sh1tbags don't kill her? Really??!!! >:(
(And yeah, I know you were joking - sort of - but the funny to mean ratio was way off. Total fail.)
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I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
(And yeah, I know you were joking - sort of - but the funny to mean ratio was way off. Total fail.)
I agree. I also suspect that Slovenian is one of those people who uses "honesty" to make him feel better about himself. ;)
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I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
Very nice. How are Americans supposed to broaden our world view if we are forced to stay home in our isolationist little world because people like you want to convince us we are all under threat of our lives every time we leave the country?
My daughter is going to be traveling to Europe in the next few weeks. Are you saying I should fear for her life?!! Maybe I should keep her locked in her room so ignorant, bigoted sh1tbags don't kill her? Really??!!! >:(
When you (american leaders or better said lobbies behind them) won't have imperialistic tendencies any more, when you'll stop putting oil in front of everything (that's why u're currently fighting 2 wars), when you'll stop killing millions of innocent civilians (Vietnam the worst, Iraq with over half a million etc) and call off your economic hitmen, well then you'll become safe sooner or later;). It's not like America hasn't brought it on their people. I would like very much this wasn't happening, since we'd all be living in a much better world. But it is what it is and that's the reality, even if you don't want to hear it. I suggest she starts learning english accent ;) .
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FWIW, Luis, who is the one objecting to Lagereek's tone, is Russian, not American...
ETA: Good on you Mike for proving that a lot of us have a sense of humor. Are we surrounded by idiots for the most part? Yes. But isn't everyone?
Serious question - those of you in Britain and the rest of Europe - don't you find many of your fellow countrymen lacking in common sense or humor at times?
I think it's more an issue of individual personality than national culture. Maybe I'm wrong?
I though he was from Portugal:s. It probably was a joke if he said he was Russian.
You see Lisa, the difference shows up yet again. I hope you won't misunderstand my previus post ;)
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My daughter is going to be traveling to Europe in the next few weeks. Are you saying I should fear for her life?!! Maybe I should keep her locked in her room so ignorant, bigoted sh1tbags don't kill her? Really??!!! >:(
She has no more chance of anything happening to her than anyone travelling anywhere relatively safe.
Is she coming to the Best Little Country in the World?
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When you (american leaders or better said lobbies behind them) won't have imperialistic tendencies any more, when you'll stop putting oil in front of everything (that's why u're currently fighting 2 wars), when you'll stop killing millions of innocent civilians (Vietnam the worst, Iraq with over half a million etc) and call off your economic hitmen, well then you'll become safe sooner or later;). It's not like America hasn't brought it on their people. I would like very much this wasn't happening, since we'd all be living in a much better world. But it is what it is and that's the reality, even if you don't want to hear it. I suggest she starts learning english accent ;) .
Unfortunately, nearly every election we have is split straight down the middle 50/50. So for every messed up imperialistic policy that is implemented, pretty much half of us don't support it. Oftentimes more than half of us are opposed. But we all seem to be tarred with the same brush. Nothing I can do to change your mind. Just have to hope that most of the people my daughter meets in her travels are more open minded than you.
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good apples and bad apples, no problem wit hit, what i really can't stand is their absurd in-your-face nationalism, jesus i haven't seen such things even when traveling in communist and socialist countries, my impression is their nationalism is fostered a lot by the government itself as it's the only real value after money that keep them all united under the same flag.
There are a lot of Americans who embarrassed by that, actually, present company included.
mah ! it's so blatant it looks like the whole country belongs to the "cult of america", a giant matrix where
everyone think to be living in the best possible world and bla bla bla .. freedom democracy .. bla bla bla ... bomb this and bomb that ... yadda yadda ...
in europe we've seen all this since 3000 yrs already, it's really no big deal, each of our city testify our history and we're
daily reminded that power never lasts long in the same hands, every empire rise and fall and america will follow soon
but it will be the american people to pay the highest price for their corrupt elite.
talking about yanks and politics, well often i had great discussions with them but sometimes woah i had to stop and go away
some guys are really rednecks and plain crazy, it's scary to know they probably own many guns at home ...
what can you tell to somebody who's been teached since early age that america is nr.1, that america is the best, that america
is Rome reincarnated and a s-hitload of other bulls-hits they heard on Fox news or cnn... sort of talking with spoiled kids and
don't let me start at yanks dealing with maps and geography hmmm ...
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My daughter is going to be traveling to Europe in the next few weeks. Are you saying I should fear for her life?!! Maybe I should keep her locked in her room so ignorant, bigoted sh1tbags don't kill her? Really??!!! >:(
She has no more chance of anything happening to her than anyone travelling anywhere relatively safe.
Is she coming to the Best Little Country in the World?
Well of course she does, who'd want to harm an innocent young woman. Not in Europe, I wouldn't say if she went to middle east etc. I know nothing would happen to American tourists in my country as well. We don't hurt people we don't like, we don't put them on axis of evil, we don't officially label them and sanction them if they don't bend. Just saw a group of American tourists today. You can't really miss them, one of them weighted about a ton :D . You're all welcome to spend your money in Slovenia;)
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When you (american leaders or better said lobbies behind them) won't have imperialistic tendencies any more, when you'll stop putting oil in front of everything (that's why u're currently fighting 2 wars), when you'll stop killing millions of innocent civilians (Vietnam the worst, Iraq with over half a million etc) and call off your economic hitmen, well then you'll become safe sooner or later;). It's not like America hasn't brought it on their people. I would like very much this wasn't happening, since we'd all be living in a much better world. But it is what it is and that's the reality, even if you don't want to hear it. I suggest she starts learning english accent ;) .
Unfortunately, nearly every election we have is split straight down the middle 50/50. So for every messed up imperialistic policy that is implemented, pretty much half of us don't support it. Oftentimes more than half of us are opposed. But we all seem to be tarred with the same brush. Nothing I can do to change your mind. Just have to hope that most of the people my daughter meets in her travels are more open minded than you.
Eh, you're not getting it. I'm just stating the reasons why americans are not welcome in most of the countries around the world. It has nothing to do with me. As I said in the previous post, which you didn't comment on, as far as I'm concerned (and practically everybody in my country) you're all welcome here as tourists. What I wouldn't welcome is you forcing your values on us (like you do on many other countries). Since we wouldn't want our society (which has many problems) to be ruined even more. For instance, we wouldn't want to work even harder, start consuming the kind of food that you do (if you can call most of that food), become insanely politically correct and oversensitive. An acquaintance of mine just returned from the states and said he'd never live there. You work your a$$ off all day, you're in debt your whole life, you can't afford to eat quality food, so you get fat and get illnesses related to obesity (diabetes etc), health care is totally privatised so you spend your last dollars for doctors when you become older (or just middle aged with 150 kg).
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Sorry, it seems to me that both Slovenian and Black Sheep are just regurgitating the worst stereotypes of the "ugly american". Like any stereotype, there are a lot of people that fit it, and there are many others who do not.
You will never find me, my husband, or my daughter defending the type of ugly behavior Americans are known for when they travel, nor the imperialistic policies that make so many people hate us. I just don't appreciate being lumped in with the crowd, because if you think those views and behaviors apply to me or my family, or my friends, then you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
BTW, isn't it about time to change the title of this thread? Something along the lines of "Official American bashing thread" might be more appropriate. I am absolutely certain that if these sorts of attacks and generalizations were being made about any other group of people - race/ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc. - they would not be tolerated.
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because if you think those views and behaviors apply to me or my family, or my friends, then you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
I have never, ever said such a thing, nor I implied it. Something like that could be only done by a primitive, full of hate lowlife, blaming ppl blindly.
We did deviate from the topic, but all in all, with all the posts regarding humour, Top gear, stand up comedians, it is fun (at least I'm having fun), I did laugh on the occasion and think it's positive overall;)
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I have never, ever said such a thing, nor I implied it. Something like that could be only done by a primitive, full of hate lowlife, blaming ppl blindly.
We did deviate from the topic, but all in all, with all the posts regarding humour, Top gear, stand up comedians, it is fun (at least I'm having fun), I did laugh on the occasion and think it's positive overall;)
I'm glad to hear that. Must have been your repeated use of the word "you" that threw me off.
And it's obvious you are having fun. It was fun for awhile, but somewhere along the line it seems like it stopped being a joke. Maybe when the lives of Americans traveling abroad - like my daughter - were said to be under threat, not because of their personal behavior, but just because of their nationality? Maybe that was all said in good fun? Forgive me for not laughing. You must be right. It just must be my impaired American sense of humor that is the reason I'm not laughing at that one.
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I'm hoping that this thread will win the 2011 microstockgroup award for most off topic posts :)
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I have never, ever said such a thing, nor I implied it. Something like that could be only done by a primitive, full of hate lowlife, blaming ppl blindly.
We did deviate from the topic, but all in all, with all the posts regarding humour, Top gear, stand up comedians, it is fun (at least I'm having fun), I did laugh on the occasion and think it's positive overall;)
I'm glad to hear that. Must have been your repeated use of the word "you" that threw me off.
And it's obvious you are having fun. It was fun for awhile, but somewhere along the line it seems like it stopped being a joke. Maybe when the lives of Americans traveling abroad - like my daughter - were said to be under threat, not because of their personal behavior, but just because of their nationality? Maybe that was all said in good fun? Forgive me for not laughing. You must be right. It just must be my impaired American sense of humor that is the reason I'm not laughing at that one.
First of I'm not a native speaker. The word you can be used both for singular and plural, that's why I put explanations in parenthesis on those sensitive subjects (yes not only sensitive for yanks, but everybody;).
I wrote that before you said anything about your daughter traveling, so it doesn't even apply ;) . Then I wrote a post, a few really and I was serious and trying to calm you down. I really can't speak for Europe as a whole, but I can for my contry(men). But as I also said later (but you just don't want to hear it), a young woman should be safe traveling to Europe. Just try to not get offended so easily, I know I'm the type of person that is not "good" for the easily offended, but I do try to explain myself later on if I offend somebody, if he/she acts normally (you obviously are, see how sensitive I've become lol).
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I really wouldn't want to be an american tourist. I mean where can you go and not be hated? Or even in great danger. I wouldn't want to be Canadian as well. You're too easily mistaken for an American ;)
Very nice. How are Americans supposed to broaden our world view and stop being so nationalistic if we are forced to stay home in our isolationist little world because people like you want to convince us we are all under threat of our lives every time we leave the country?
My daughter is going to be traveling to Europe in the next few weeks. Are you saying I should fear for her life?!! Maybe I should keep her locked in her room so ignorant, bigoted sh1tbags don't kill her? Really??!!! >:(
(And yeah, I know you were joking - sort of - but the funny to mean ratio was way off. Total fail.)
LOL! I got the feeling that anti-American feelings have subsided in recent years and I haven't met an American on my travels who calls himself Canadian in such a long time, it felt like everyone was doing that at one time. I don't know if that had something to do with that nice "bring em on" fellow being at the helm. The best thing about America, is that there are at most only two terms, phew! I wish more countries would have that.
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talking about yanks and politics, well often i had great discussions with them but sometimes woah i had to stop and go away
some guys are really rednecks and plain crazy, it's scary to know they probably own many guns at home ...
what can you tell to somebody who's been teached since early age that america is nr.1, that america is the best, that america
is Rome reincarnated and a s-hitload of other bulls-hits they heard on Fox news or cnn... sort of talking with spoiled kids and
don't let me start at yanks dealing with maps and geography hmmm ...
Yeah, I know, you should live here. I see them on Facebook and other forums all the time. The ignorance is astounding. At least you can get away from it. I call them the supporters of "Free-dumb". And most all of them support Sarah Palin. *sigh*
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americans abroad are funny and sometimes interesting, i would not generalize, the problem for me is when talking about politics with them, it's not an issue of leftists vs republicans, but the fact most of the yanks fully support unconditionally the neo colonialist wars america is waging in north africa and middle east, not to mention the bombing of serbia in 1999, the awful creation of Kosovo, Taiwan, and all the "color revolutions" in eastern europe.
and being answered that this is ok because they're "mickey mouse" countries can only make my blood boil.
the world would be a much better place WITHOUT america's "humanitarian interventions" (hahaha!), and as a matter of fact the smartest people i've met so far are the russians, hope one day they take over all of europe and liberate us for real from being a NATO colony.
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most of the yanks fully support unconditionally the neo colonialist wars america is waging in north africa and middle east,..
But a lot of them don't though. A lot of Americans are unhappy about their country's foreign pursuits.
Quote from lisafx, earlier in the thread. "Unfortunately, nearly every election we have is split straight down the middle 50/50. So for every messed up imperialistic policy that is implemented, pretty much half of us don't support it. Oftentimes more than half of us are opposed. But we all seem to be tarred with the same brush."
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americans abroad are funny and sometimes interesting, i would not generalize, the problem for me is when talking about politics with them, it's not an issue of leftists vs republicans, but the fact most of the yanks fully support unconditionally the neo colonialist wars america is waging in north africa and middle east, not to mention the bombing of serbia in 1999, the awful creation of Kosovo, Taiwan, and all the "color revolutions" in eastern europe.
and being answered that this is ok because they're "mickey mouse" countries can only make my blood boil.
the world would be a much better place WITHOUT america's "humanitarian interventions" (hahaha!), and as a matter of fact the smartest people i've met so far are the russians, hope one day they take over all of europe and liberate us for real from being a NATO colony.
you know you are in a microstock forum, right? I could care less what makes your blood boil
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^^^Just put him on ignore. Like Macrosuar, it's fun at first but then he starts ranting and it will just get worse until he's banned again. I just wish we didn't have to see quotes when someone's being ignored.
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americans abroad are funny and sometimes interesting, i would not generalize, the problem for me is when talking about politics with them, it's not an issue of leftists vs republicans, but the fact most of the yanks fully support unconditionally the neo colonialist wars america is waging in north africa and middle east, not to mention the bombing of serbia in 1999, the awful creation of Kosovo, Taiwan, and all the "color revolutions" in eastern europe.
and being answered that this is ok because they're "mickey mouse" countries can only make my blood boil.
the world would be a much better place WITHOUT america's "humanitarian interventions" (hahaha!), and as a matter of fact the smartest people i've met so far are the russians, hope one day they take over all of europe and liberate us for real from being a NATO colony.
BS! simply BS!! your way of living, existing, even breathing the very air, would be the first to be abolished! if it wasnt for the Americans and British, saving your ass and parents asses during two wars, you would still be itching in your daddys pants,
steady on pal! you sound like a Saddam or Bin-Laden supporter. Sounds as if youre in the wrong profession.
Pitty the Russiand who actually live there dont agree with you, then again its easier for a sofa-expert to have an opinion, isnt it.
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ohh gimme a break, please.
saving me from what ? america, UK, and russia were allied during WWII ... wake up ....
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ohh gimme a break, please.
saving me from what ? america, UK, and russia were allied during WWII ... wake up ....
Thought so, exactly the kind of answer we all expected.
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ohh gimme a break, please.
saving me from what ? america, UK, and russia were allied during WWII ... wake up ....
Thought so, exactly the kind of answer we all expected.
well you must understand some euro countries were allied to germany and had simply nothing to be saved for ... quite the opposite, the allieds almost bombed my grandfather's home missing it by a few meters.
the Marshall Plan .. imposing enormous debts on the whole western europe, we're still repaying them in 2011 (!) ... the liberated europe run by puppet american government as in today's afghanistan ... such a step forward eh ?
hundreds of US/NATO bases in our territory .. and the list goes on .. not that i have any will to rant about this on a microstock forum by the way.
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I am absolutely certain that if these sorts of attacks and generalizations were being made about any other group of people - race/ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc. - they would not be tolerated.
Well, not entirely. My internet forum studies suggest that Yank-baiting and Muslim-baiting are both permitted and even applauded (note that the latter slipped in with the pointless detour to suggest that young women travellers are likely to get attacked in the Middle East, even though in most parts they are probably safer than in the EU), while Jew-baiting and gay-baiting are absolutely off limits.
I still haven't worked out how this thread ended up here.
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while Jew-baiting and gay-baiting are absolutely off limits.
maybe in american forums, not in the rest of the world.
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Read 2861 times ** sigh **
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americans abroad are funny and sometimes interesting, i would not generalize, the problem for me is when talking about politics with them, it's not an issue of leftists vs republicans, but the fact most of the yanks fully support unconditionally the neo colonialist wars america is waging in north africa and middle east, not to mention the bombing of serbia in 1999, the awful creation of Kosovo, Taiwan, and all the "color revolutions" in eastern europe.
and being answered that this is ok because they're "mickey mouse" countries can only make my blood boil.
the world would be a much better place WITHOUT america's "humanitarian interventions" (hahaha!), and as a matter of fact the smartest people i've met so far are the russians, hope one day they take over all of europe and liberate us for real from being a NATO colony.
BS! simply BS!! your way of living, existing, even breathing the very air, would be the first to be abolished! if it wasnt for the Americans and British, saving your ass and parents asses during two wars, you would still be itching in your daddys pants,
steady on pal! you sound like a Saddam or Bin-Laden supporter. Sounds as if youre in the wrong profession.
Pitty the Russiand who actually live there dont agree with you, then again its easier for a sofa-expert to have an opinion, isnt it.
The * were defeated by the soviets, not the usa. usa only came to fight when the germans were already loosing the whole thing... I'm not blaming them tho, who would want to be involved in all that at it's peak?
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Which just goes to show that we are all taught our own versions of history.
Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
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Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
Yes. Now instead we live in a united, German-led European Union :D
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I have never stop uploading to istock, even with the earning cut, but I'm thinking of stopping now, because i have maybe only 5 downloads from my last 200 pictures uploaded. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Which just goes to show that we are all taught our own versions of history.
Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
there are plenty of decent books on WWII but will you ever read them ?
and how a german led europe would so much worse than the EU puppet government
in brussels and the NATO occupation since 1945 ?
i mean i'm not a nazi but what's the difference between yanks bombing the whole
north africa and germany invading poland ?
it's not a problem of being teached history by the victors or by the losers, but
the reality that nowadays america is animperialist warmongering colonial power,
no matter if they elect bush or obama or whoever is next on the list.
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Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
Yes. Now instead we live in a united, German-led European Union :D
exactly, and the german banks are already waiting to eat greece's corpse or being repaid
with a few aegean islands, the privatization of the whole greek economy, greek pensions,
and much more, hopefully greece will declare default, leave the EU, and do like argentina.
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I could care less what makes your blood boil
You could? Or you couldn't? ;D
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Which just goes to show that we are all taught our own versions of history.
So what do you think German and USSR did between 1941-1944? Played chess and drank vodka?
The real turning point in defeating germany was Stalingrad in 1943, not what happened after d-day, even if people from US seem to think that way very often. I really suggest to read some books written by others than US writers. Or even Wikipedia.
(Okay, this is getting seriously off-topic :))
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Which just goes to show that we are all taught our own versions of history.
Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
there are plenty of decent books on WWII but will you ever read them ?
and how a german led europe would so much worse than the EU puppet government
in brussels and the NATO occupation since 1945 ?
i mean i'm not a nazi but what's the difference between yanks bombing the whole
north africa and germany invading poland ?
it's not a problem of being teached history by the victors or by the losers, but
the reality that nowadays america is animperialist warmongering colonial power,
no matter if they elect bush or obama or whoever is next on the list.
Nah, theres ofcourse no differance at all between the Nazi ideology of exterminating just about everybody and the US bombing some sort of a dictator/tyran Libya, no differance at all ???????????????
Out of curiosity, are you a product out of the 60-era? you know "peace brother, flowers in your hair" and all that bollocks?
Just, most of us have moved on to shall we say more realistic thinking.
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So when did Hitler resume uploading to Istock?
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Thank God we never ended up with Hitler's vision of a united, German-led Europe!
Yes. Now instead we live in a united, German-led European Union :D
Congratulations, you got the joke (Blacksheep seems a little slow).
As for versions of history, I suspect that British, Russian, French and American versions of WWII history are very different indeed in emphasis, if not on dates and events. And that's just the victors' versions :)
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So when did Hitler resume uploading to Istock?
he sent Goebbles to upload for him.
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So when did Hitler resume uploading to Istock?
You'll soon see that they're moving there on from F4 and F5 to V1 and V2. Sales are expected to rocket!
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Which just goes to show that we are all taught our own versions of history.
Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter. (African proverb)
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ok, well this thread turned into a simple mud fight, so it has been locked and the last 10 or so posts were removed.
try to keep attacking of other members out of the conversation.