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Author Topic: Someone wants to buy my images outside of iStock. Should I?  (Read 13114 times)

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« on: November 29, 2007, 10:44 »
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Hi everyone.  I need some advice.  I received an email sent through my website contact form asking me if they could buy 3 of my images directly without registering through iStock.  From the email it sounds as though they are trying to avoid buying a bunch of credits they won't use, I guess.  My question is, should I do this?  What are the risks that I might not be thinking of?  He doesn't really state what sizes he'll need or the specifics of what he'll be using them for so that would have to be worked out.  But should I even bother?  My gut tells me I probably shouldn't.  I'll paste the email below to see what you guys think:

Quote
"Comments: hi. Im interested in 3 photos i found today on iStockphoto. since I'm not dealing with photos but need some really good one for my starting enterprise in Hungary I would like to know how i could get that 3 really funny ones:
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/object/4461404_miniature_dentists_in_large_mouth.php?id=4461404

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=4462655

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=4461572

I'd really appreciate if you offered any solution on this, except registering on iphotostock, these are the only pictures we need.
Btw i like your web gallery very much, keep on doing. Thanks, Gabor"


I would love to hear your thoughts on this.  Thanks in advance.
Pixelbrat


« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 10:58 »
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I would not bother. The only advantage by selling directly would be making maybe $15 extra dollars. But then what kind of agreement are you going to sell it under.

Maybe he will buy them from you for $20 and then he might think that he owns the pictures and send them to bunch of his friends. You might find out, it will make you angry and you would not be able to do anything about it (unless you want to sue someone in Hungary).

So if I were you I would just let it go and tell him that he can buy 10 credits on iStock. If that is too much for him, then he is not worth dealing with.

« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 11:09 »
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You can never let your images go without protecting them.  Part of this means hiring a lawyer to draft an agreement of terms and that isn't very practical.  The easiest thing is to have them protected by the end user agreement with an agency.  Are these images available on another agency that isn't as expensive or doesn't require such a large purchase?  It seems to me maybe StockXpert offers small purchases.  On Fotolia, if you buy 10 credits you can order any number after that 16, 12 - not a package of 10, 20, 50 etc that the others require.

I wish these agencies would allow single photo purchases.  I expect they would make more in the end as so many non-pros balk at buying more credits than they need for the little project they are making.

« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 11:19 »
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You both bring up excellent points.  I agree, I'll let this one go.  I really appreciate it.   ;D

vonkara

« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 11:21 »
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He could not buy some cheap credit? In my point of view you are not going to be rich by them...I will never do this!

« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 12:25 »
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I would upload them to FeaturePIcs, they offer per image sales via credit card, you can set your own price and they are protected by a license agreement, just my two cents (in case you need a referral link for featurepics click here SY

« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 16:08 »
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His enquiry is a scam.  You'll never get paid.  Forget it.

If you received the enquiry in a site mail at iStock, please report the person to Support so they can shut down his account.

« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 16:13 »
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If I were you I would find out what size file he needs and what he is going to do with the images.  See if he will pay you by paypal and if you can send the images to him by ftp.  Do not upload anything until after he pays you.  Insist as part of the payment he credit you or your web site every time he uses one of the images and if he is going to print the images insist that he send you at least 2 copies of the printed material, make sure this is in the invoice.  You already know that he wants your images so hit him with a price that is good for you (don't worry about the istock price).  All you have to loose is the time it will take to send an e-mail, if you don't like his reply then tell him no.  You might be able to make some money for 10 minutes of uploading.  When he credits you or your web site then you have the chance to make more sales in the future.  Your images are already on Istock so anyone can already download them and send them to their friends so don't worry about that either.

« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 16:35 »
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The person may want to purchase the image privately because his/her intended use lies outside of the IS licensing agreement - using it as part of a logo comes immediately to mind.

I've done this a handful of times for $50 to $100 a pop without any problems at all. First I check out the buyer's credentials and intended use, then spell out the rules by referencing the IS licensing agreement. I email the image (at the approprate resolution) after I've received the funds via PayPal.

I worked as a freelance pro before coming to microstock, and regularly did this sort of thing. I don't understand why everyone is so skittish about it - would you be so hesitant if they approached you after finding your image on a non-commercial site (like flickr, photo.net, fredmiranda, ...)? Probably not.

« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 16:50 »
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Wow!

What a variety of answers.

I would first find out what their intent was.  What sizes are they looking for?  What usage are they planning?  Is this for resale (on tshirts, mugs, etc)?  Why don't they want to download it from IS?  If they tell you it's because they don't want to buy tokens, then I would think that they weren't being completely upfront (since the smallest package of tokens is only $10).

« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 18:09 »
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The person may want to purchase the image privately because his/her intended use lies outside of the IS licensing agreement - using it as part of a logo comes immediately to mind.

I've done this a handful of times for $50 to $100 a pop without any problems at all. First I check out the buyer's credentials and intended use, then spell out the rules by referencing the IS licensing agreement. I email the image (at the approprate resolution) after I've received the funds via PayPal.

I worked as a freelance pro before coming to microstock, and regularly did this sort of thing. I don't understand why everyone is so skittish about it - would you be so hesitant if they approached you after finding your image on a non-commercial site (like flickr, photo.net, fredmiranda, ...)? Probably not.


Agreed, :)  I have also sold my images in this way and not (gasp!) only through microstock.  lol There is nothing to be alarmed or worried about as long as you get your $$ up front and the buyer understands that this is not an exclusive sellout. :)
Good Luck!

« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 21:41 »
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This wouldn't be fair for Istock. That guy found your images through Istock, Istock did all the marketing, and now you are going to make the sale without Istock?
Seems wrong to me!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 21:45 by Gregor909 »

« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2007, 00:23 »
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Say Gregor909 the Istock contract is non-exclusive that means we can sell our images anyother way we can.  Istock has to know that this is going on.  Personally I feel that part of the mircostock service to me, as a photographer, is advertising my photography as well as selling my images.  I have made quite a few "outside" sales because my images are on microstock sites.

« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2007, 05:33 »
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The person may want to purchase the image privately because his/her intended use lies outside of the IS licensing agreement - using it as part of a logo comes immediately to mind.

I was under the impression that an RF image couldn't be used as part of a logo - since a logo will normally be registered as a trademark.  Also - a registered trademark (or part of) wouldn't normally appear in an RF image. I'm curious how you managed to find / negotiate a legal contract to get around the various issues (previous and future sales of the image).


« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2007, 06:37 »
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Read the bloke's enquiry again: "since I'm not dealing with photos but need some really good one for my starting enterprise in Hungary..."

He's starting an enterprise in an Eastern European country.  He's short of cash and wants you to supply the pics free.

Pretty obvious really.

Please report him to iStock support - it simply isn't right for him to send a site mail trying to avoid payment through the iStock system.

« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2007, 09:29 »
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This wouldn't be fair for Istock. That guy found your images through Istock, Istock did all the marketing, and now you are going to make the sale without Istock?
Seems wrong to me!

There are plenty of buyers that see an image on one site, and then buy it on another.  It might not be fair, but it is a normal part of business.

In a similar light, I'm sure that many of us go to brick-and-mortar stores to check out an item, and then purchase the item online.

Advertising doesn't guarantee a sale.  It just improves the odds of one.

« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 10:22 »
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Read the bloke's enquiry again: "since I'm not dealing with photos but need some really good one for my starting enterprise in Hungary..."

He's starting an enterprise in an Eastern European country.  He's short of cash and wants you to supply the pics free.

Pretty obvious really.

Please report him to iStock support - it simply isn't right for him to send a site mail trying to avoid payment through the iStock system.


Actually, this wasn't sent through iStock site mail.  He sent it through my contact form on my website.

After reading everyone's opinions, which have been very interesting in how widely they have varied, I think I'm going to just leave it alone.  Whether his intentions are legit or not I just don't have the legal knowledge to try to spell out any licensing terms.  Plus, I just have a bad feeling about it.  I'd much rather leave this sort of thing to the experts, which is why I sell through these sites to begin with.  Thanks so much to everyone for your input.  It has really shed a lot of light on this situation that I would not have thought of on my own.

« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2007, 10:32 »
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Please report him to iStock support - it simply isn't right for him to send a site mail trying to avoid payment through the iStock system.

I believe he contacted her privately through her personal website, and that he is not a member of istock....

Really guys,  this is a normal thing.  Depending on the usage he requires pixelbrat can end up making MORE money (also this is not "cheating" on istock)  just make sure that you get your cash up front and present your client with the correct contract and usage agreement.  I have actually called on a good friend who is more knowing in these areas to come shed some light on the situation and calm all your fears. You should see his reply today. :)
B.

« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2007, 11:04 »
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Hi Becky, I will do what I can to ease Pixelbrats concerns but the proper advice has already been given.

Pixelbrat, there is no reason to not do a deal with this person if through talking with them you determine that the usage they intend is legitimate and acceptable to you. Simply discuss the terms of use with them, agree on those terms and the amount of payment, send them an invoice that references the license you will also send for them (as a signed and locked PDF). Note on the invoice and the license that the license is only valid if payment is received. Once all is agreed have them pay you via PayPal or any other means you are comfortable with but do not give them the banking info to do a bank wire transfer unless you have an account set up at your bank that you keep no money in and that you use specifically for receiving wire transfers for customers out of the country you have never done business with.

Once you receive payment deliver the images If you need a license to send them you can email me through my website site at realdealphoto.com telling me what the terms are and I will be happy to send you one you can use as a reference point to make your own.

Private image sales can be a good source of additional income, your agreements with the stock agencies are non exclusive so there is no ethical issue here . You do however have to approach each private situation intelligently and with a bit of caution, as there are scams out there but if you do the deal the way I have described it then you have no more to worry about from the standpoint of fraud and or misuse then you would have if the person downloaded the images from Istock.

« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2007, 11:32 »
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Hatman I dont know why you can be so sure, he want the pictures for free, but the best is to ask him dont you think so? Moreover I think one should not judge a request from the country where it is sent....
If you get the payment via paypal there is no problem.
As to the protection of course there is a risk, this risk you will have anyway even when selling on micro, it is your decision if you want to have this extra money accepting maybe a sligtly higher risk.....

jean


Read the bloke's enquiry again: "since I'm not dealing with photos but need some really good one for my starting enterprise in Hungary..."

He's starting an enterprise in an Eastern European country.  He's short of cash and wants you to supply the pics free.

Pretty obvious really.

Please report him to iStock support - it simply isn't right for him to send a site mail trying to avoid payment through the iStock system.

« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 14:16 »
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Once you receive payment deliver the images If you need a license to send them you can email me through my website site at realdealphoto.com telling me what the terms are and I will be happy to send you one you can use as a reference point to make your own.



Bobby is great at all this legal-speak and the writing of contracts  that are so easy to get confused by, I use him on a regular basis to make myself sound more professional... lol. ;P
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 14:21 by Beckyabell »

« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 14:50 »
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Really guys,  this is a normal thing.  Depending on the usage he requires pixelbrat can end up making MORE money (also this is not "cheating" on istock)  just make sure that you get your cash up front and present your client with the correct contract and usage agreement.  I have actually called on a good friend who is more knowing in these areas to come shed some light on the situation and calm all your fears. You should see his reply today. :)
B.

Caution is always advisable....

However, this is exactly how I got into magazine and book publishing!  I was contacted privately.... after an art director was scanning micros.
  Mine was a legitimate publishing company... I talked to them, negotiated and we forged and agreement.  Actually, I accepted their terms as they pay other free lance photogs.  My work is protected, they only get a  'one time'  usage for the fee, if they want to use it again for anything, they pay again. 
  Free lancing will earn you A LOT more money than even EL's on the micros. I've made more in my last two magazines than I did all my microsites all this year so far.    I would proceed with caution and see what the deal is...

you can always say ..no thanks if you still feel uncomfortable. Needless to say, just never leave yourself, your bank accounts, etc  exposed.  8)=tom
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 23:56 by a.k.a.-tom »

« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 15:16 »
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It's great to hear good stories. The only queries I get though are to give a photo away for free.

« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 23:57 »
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It's great to hear good stories. The only queries I get though are to give a photo away for free.

Free is only my favorite price ...when I'm buying.......    8)=tom

« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2007, 05:21 »
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The person may want to purchase the image privately because his/her intended use lies outside of the IS licensing agreement - using it as part of a logo comes immediately to mind.

I've done this a handful of times for $50 to $100 a pop without any problems at all. First I check out the buyer's credentials and intended use, then spell out the rules by referencing the IS licensing agreement. I email the image (at the approprate resolution) after I've received the funds via PayPal.

I worked as a freelance pro before coming to microstock, and regularly did this sort of thing. I don't understand why everyone is so skittish about it - would you be so hesitant if they approached you after finding your image on a non-commercial site (like flickr, photo.net, fredmiranda, ...)? Probably not.


Well put, I also think that the IS agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on, there have been many IS users even exclusives who have had images used which fall outside the terms of the agreement and IS hasn't done a thing about it, every time a question is asked about this on the IS forum it's get locked ASAP, it's the same deal with other MS sites, I believe that due to the cost of MS images it's not worth the effort for MS companies to get lawyers involved for bugger all return.

« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2007, 13:53 »
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I still can't understand how an RF image could be used as part of a logo. Given that logos are (normally)  trademarks. I don't see how an image which has been RF can then be TMed. Equally I don't see how an image which is known to have been included in a logo can also continue to be sold RF.

It would be great if someone could explain this.

« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2009, 16:17 »
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I wish these agencies would allow single photo purchases.  I expect they would make more in the end as so many non-pros balk at buying more credits than they need for the little project they are making.

Our agency (The3dStudio.com) DOES allow single photo purchases! No credits or subscription plans. One product or more are paid for with any major credit card or PayPal.

If you are not already with us, and someone wants to buy a few of your products, you might consider becoming a member of The3dstudio.com. Then upload the products and use your referall link to direct your prospective buyer to your products at T3DS. They can purchase just the few photos they want with no credit and you will make a sale you might not otherwise get on one of the big sites. Assuming the purchaser is legit and that you haven't signed any exclusive deals with other agencies of course!

We pay 60% royalty (75% to those who sell exclusively with us) with no minimum payout amount if you accept PayPal payments.

[email protected]

« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2009, 17:09 »
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Pimping up a nearly two year old thread! ???

« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2009, 17:32 »
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It is old, but in this case it is pretty valid, since they approve images almost instantly and allow single image sales, so protection kicks in right away, for those that would not consider a direct sale.

« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2009, 17:43 »
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It may be an old here but the situation still comes up. Just offering an idea in case anyone here can use it to make some sales. Self serving to some extent, yes, but as an agency we don't make money unless our members do (photographers and our 3D members) so we naturally want to do whatever we can to help you.  :)

We are working to not only attract photographers and build our library but also to get the word out to buyers that we now carry stock photos and images. We advertise our website but we also stress that our Members can help themselves by finding ways to promote themselves. So if someone hears that sales aren't being made because of the "credit" system, they might be able to get a sale this way.

This site has tons of great info and advice--just because it wasn't posted yesterday doesn't negate it's value. I am a relatively new member of the forum and am still digging my way through as time permits, so I assume as others join they will do the same thing.

We're working on designing some little banners for website ads. There is very little space for wording so we are trying to decide what is the most important thing about a stock agency--royalty rate or ??? Any thoughts?

Also looking at places to advertise for stock buyers and we welcome suggestions.

[email protected]



 

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