Sorry, but it's hard to take your rant seriously when we don't know who you are. Provide a link to your iStock portfolio. As of now there is no way to even know if you are a real photographer, or just a troublemaker.

Well Im somebody and I never thought I would hear myself say this but sadly I think the OP is right!

It's been about 6 months since I uploaded, so you're preaching to the choir.  

+1

I know is hard to instantly shut down one's iStock account.There is a lot of work in it.
Regards,
Dmitry

Apparently it's not difficult at all. You just write to Support and ask for your account to be closed and to receive any monies due to you. If your portfolio is quite small, you could even just delete your images manually if you don't want to wait until Support do it for you.

I would like to see his istockportfolio as well. There are loads of 1 image trolls with opinions...

I don't think it really matters. It's not like he claimed iStock eats babies. They seem to be fairly reasonable and commonly held opinions in this forum.

^^^Istock has as much junk as all the other sites.  They also have at least a million great images missing, either because of their upload limits or their appalling commissions putting people off using them.

I stopped uploading as soon as they announced the commission cuts.  It saves a lot of time not having to upload there and I really couldn't care less about the latest best match changes.

Quote from: Matemir on April 13, 2011, 09:32

I know is hard to instantly shut down one's iStock account.There is a lot of work in it.
Regards,
Dmitry

Apparently it's not difficult at all. You just write to Support and ask for your account to be closed and to receive any monies due to you. If your portfolio is quite small, you could even just delete your images manually if you don't want to wait until Support do it for you.

What I really mean is that is hard to give up all you have done until recently, all the effort of shoot/edit/upload. I did not mean the effective process of deleting account.

[... IS still has the best collection and that's why  buyers are there. It won't last forever that's for sure but look at the other agencies.
Apart from Shutterstock the others are full of crap especially Dreamstime.         

Are you an iStock employee, are you financially involved in iStock other than being a submitter? This kind of advertising is really crap. All I can understand is that iStock has a serious problem with Dreamstime.

There are loads of 1 image trolls with opinions...

That's a great statement, Cobalt. Thanks for the chuckle.

This gem would have gone on the old iStock Quotes thread, back in the day.

+1

Don`t sell on istock. Don`t buy on istock.

• Highest rate in the industry - 85%  comission
• No protection at all against credit card fraud
• Privacy intrusion - screenshot request for CG(as if they were providing us access to their books)
• Very hard to upload process - with an ironic end "I love to upload to iStock!"
• Impossible logic: commission rate is conditioned by the number of sales > number of sales is conditioned by the number of uploads - number of uploads is conditioned by iStock => comission rate is LIMITED by iStock!

For me it's enough. I decided to STOP UPLOADING = STOP FEEDING THE BEAST!

I know is hard to instantly shut down one's iStock account. There is a lot of work in it. But why should we continue? As long as one keeps uploading is simply feeding the beast. And the beast is asking more and more. Next step? 95%? Or what else? The managers are very creative people. The middle way to get out of it is to simply stop uploading to your iStock account. This way, your income will not drop down instantly and you will have the time to find other ways of selling your images.

Regards,
Dmitry

Seeing a portfolio validates him (or her). It gives some creditability that we are not dealing with some 12 year old locked away in the basement trolling away.

I should have asked to please see a portfolio link. It would have been nicer.

For me it's enough. I decided to STOP UPLOADING = STOP FEEDING THE BEAST!

I know is hard to instantly shut down one's iStock account. There is a lot of work in it.

You do have a choice!

I would like to see his istockportfolio as well. There are loads of 1 image trolls with opinions...

ain't that the truth!!!

... My first reaction was to tell the OP to piss off. ...it's bad manners we're reacting to and not the message.

Bad manners? Could you be please more explicit, could you give me a single example from my first post of bad manner?

Argumentum ad hominem - a classic logical fallacy, quite common here unfortunately

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Unfortunately that is true - both online and in everyday life.

Thank you for ... something productive.

Sorry for not quoting your entire post, but I do not want to upset our fellow posters.

It is not only about 15%. It is about all the points in that list, it is about the fact that iStock has a very wrong attitude towards submitters, it is about the fact that iStock has a too large market share and is ABUSING its position.

The 15% argument is so old and lame, it doesn�t get truer by repeating it. But here goes.

What is the 15% argument? That getting paid below 20% is insulting, degrading and bad for the industry. I don't see how that can be debated.

But a lot of energy is wasted on moaning instead of doing something productive.

I agree, but isn't stopping uploading, telling customers to shop elsewhere and focusing on other sites DOING something.

Who would be foolish enough to identify their IS account here, unless they only want to say nice things about IS?

I would completely agree. 

"I agree, but isn't stopping uploading, telling customers to shop elsewhere and focusing on other sites DOING something."

It is doing something yes. And if you feel better about it emotionally then again yes, maybe for some contributors this alone is good reason to do it. And if enough contributors or the right contributors stop uploading maybe you can negotiate a higher rate.

But if you just stop uploading, is it a good financial move? What will the buyers do when you leave? Will they follow you? Will they even notice?? Some contributors may have such a unique style that buyers will follow them. But in most cases all your sales will just go to your competitors on istock.

To the copycats.

They will take over your best match positions (even if they fluctuate), replace your images in the lightboxes of buyers, and really enjoy some good money if you introduced a new image concept.

You can�t stop them, there are to many artists out there.

Now, let�s assume you have stopped uploading to istock, have "broken the chain" and are now feading the beasts of other agencies. I am exclusive, so I haven�t been follwoing all the news here, but from what I read, the other sites aren�t perfect are they? Their managements also make decisions that enrage contributors. They mess up, they can be greedy, you feel betrayed, probably with good reason.

Imagine that this summer there is a hypothetical crisis at Dreamstime or Bigstock or...agency XYZ- what will you do? You also stop uploading to say - XYZ. Again slowly delete your portfolio.

Now you are avoiding two agencies.

Then the next agency messes up...

...

So this is why I don�t believe these boycotts make financial sense longterm.

The only thing that would make sense is to sell from your own site. You get 100% Royalty, that is unbeatable.

But you have to do a lot to attract traffic, just like any other internet business or webshop. Just like setting up a webstore to sell kitchenware. You�ll make it if you work hard. maybe team up with artists that have a complementing portfolio, not direct competition, but not unrelated content either.

The other thing is what people are doing already - balance stock with assignment work.

Perhaps there are other solutions or business concepts, I don�t know.

But if you want your horse to run, you have to feed it.

^^^I don't think it makes any financial sense whatsoever to accept a commission cut from the site that pays by far the lowest commission already.  All the other big sites can see that istock can get away with tiny commissions, they will all slash their own commissions.  Then istock will just cut commissions again next year or make it even harder to reach the next level.

It isn't about the percentage, it's about the bottom line, which is what microstock has always been about.

As of last month, it would make more financial sense for me to dump Fotolia, Alamy, 123, Bigstock and Canstock - the whole lot of them together - than it would to dump just iStock by itself. If any of those five agencies increases its sales tenfold, then it would have the leverage to start acting like iStock. Right now, I'm still more inclined to dump Fotolia for its outrageous behaviour (it was actually the agency that started all this shafting, if you remember, it seems to get away with it because of iStock's cock-ups) than I am to dump iS. If things keep going as they are this week, that might change.

Argumentum ad hominem - a classic logical fallacy, quite common here unfortunately

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Not too get too anal (much) but the fallacy is the "Genetic Fallacy". Ad Hominem arguments are not necessary logical fallacies.

Isn't Fotolia already paying about 13% or something like that? They are utterly deceitful about what their commission levels mean. I'm sure Leaf had a chart somewhere.

Of course you are not sure what your average commission is. They keep it a tightly-guarded secret. Only Fotolia knows.

This is bad for the business. Bad for YOUR business. The one who lose in the end is the one who stop uploading.
I am not agreeing with a lot of thinks on istock. But I am uploading. And if you don't uploading you make my sales grow. There are so many that register to istock, so many new people and more are coming. Wait until people in China will start to register. A lot of people there would be OK with 100$ per month for their living.

Not the Chinese! Lol...

You're the type these sites love.

Which type? Which sites? Do you mean that the poster is the type that Istock loves? Have you stopped submitting to Istock? Or do you mean the type that MSG loves? As for the Chinese, I think we've all learned that it's long past the time when you can just sneer at the concept of competition from China. Until you've been there, it's hard to imagine the energy and sophistication of the emerging generation in China. I do consider China as a new source of images to be competing with the old guard.

The type that will take whatever they are given, happily.

China can compete with people on shooting apples and pencils.  And Chinese people.  That's not my thing.

To the all people that says: stop uploading!

This is bad for the business. Bad for YOUR business. The one who lose in the end is the one who stop uploading.
I am not agreeing with a lot of thinks on istock. But I am uploading. And if you don't uploading you make my sales grow. There are so many that register to istock, so many new people and more are coming. Wait until people in China will start to register. A lot of people there would be OK with 100$ per month for their living.

I am not showing my account on istock as well, but I like istock and istock made me grow actually. Fotolia, shutterstock or dreamstime are not better. Just another agencies. That probably sooner or later will face same difficulties.

Just my 2 cents.

It think it would be bad for me to invest my time any money in to something that is only going to lead to lower and lower earnings.  I'm sure a few billion people can live off $100 but that's impossible in the UK.  I think I would be much better of concentrating on doing things that aren't easy for the Chinese or other low paid workers to copy.  And I really don't see the sense in just putting up with being paid less and less each year until I can no longer pay the mortgage.

Quote from: sjlocke on April 14, 2011, 06:18

The type that will take whatever they are given, happily.

China can compete with people on shooting apples and pencils.  And Chinese people.  That's not my thing.

Sean, do you remember this post?
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=309532&page=1

"I am a Chinese videographer. What video do you want to see about China?"


They are coming....

What do you mean? Are you implying that the Chinese photographers have no rights to contribute to stock photo agencies?

To those who are advocating to stop feeding the beast, if I don't feed the beast, are you going to feed me or let me starve to death?

What do you mean? Are you implying that the Chinese photographers have no rights to contribute to stock photo agencies?

Peace man! Please don't put the words in my mouth. The main idea is that there will be more and more people that became contributors and they don't need to sell a lot (like Sean) to be happy. And this will make istock happy because the library will grow a lot even if the diamond or gold contributors will stop upload. And people with few downloads will get less money but they will contribute more than others because they will always grow in number. And istock will earn more by having less to pay. So no matter what you are doing we all are going to the same direction.

It would be totally other think if istock would stop accepting new contributors, but this will not going to happen and I would not want this either.

FYI, I love China, I've been in China, I cook Chinese food and I love the Chinese kung-fu movies.

As satisfying as it may be to lacerate IS in this forum,  the real discussion should be on finding and promoting alternatives.

We can't organize any action that would cause significant pain to IS or to any of the big microstocks.  They now have many millions of images in stock, and are waking up to the fact that they can cut commissions quite a bit and immediately boost profits, with no obvious harm done to their near-term prospects.  IS, bless them, has been leading the way.  This will continue, and the bottom isn't in sight.

Those of us that need this income will have to keep selling through IS.  In fact there is no logical reason not to, in cold economic terms.

We want "Fair Trade" sites, or other alternatives,  to start making some signficant sales, and for IS to keep on systematically hosing up  their business and alienating customers.   What can we do as contributors to make this happen?  Probably not much, other than submitting all our photos to Fair Trade sites, and trying to influence buyers, if we have contact with them.

As satisfying as it may be to lacerate IS in this forum,  the real discussion should be on finding and promoting alternatives.

We can't organize any action that would cause significant pain to IS or to any of the big microstocks.  They now have many millions of images in stock, and are waking up to the fact that they can cut commissions quite a bit and immediately boost profits, with no obvious harm done to their near-term prospects.  IS, bless them, has been leading the way.  This will continue, and the bottom isn't in sight.

Those of us that need this income will have to keep selling through IS.  In fact there is no logical reason not to, in cold economic terms.

We want "Fair Trade" sites, or other alternatives,  to start making some signficant sales, and for IS to keep on systematically hosing up  their business and alienating customers.   What can we do as contributors to make this happen?  Probably not much, other than submitting all our photos to Fair Trade sites, and trying to influence buyers, if we have contact with them.

    I agree 100%. We can't do anything to change Istocks direction, and those that have a vested interest in Istock will have to sink or swim with what they are given. they have no chance to influence anything. Look at the recent "conference call" with the chosen ones. Nothing has changed and nothing will change. As for alternative sites, right now thats the best way to get income coming in to pay the bills, but that is only going to work for those that are already contributing to those sites. For the long time contributors to Istock, a great deal of their port would not pass re-inspection at other sites because the standards have become much more stringent than the days of snapshots. But the long term growth will probably be in having your own site and dominating a certain style and subject niche. But to compete, you will have to be really good at shooting, and really good at driving traffic to your site. ( that's the 800lb gorilla in having your own site.) The best thing that can be said about contributing to all the microstock sites right now is that it gives you real time feedback on the market and the trends in that market, which in itself is quite valuable.

Well Im not going to waste time hanging around a crippled site like this. I give it to end of next week, if things havent changed at least a swing towards the "normal" I am without doubt removing at least some 60 blue and red files, some with 2K dls,  Im letting a large amount of buyers ( oh yes I have got to know quite a few from enquiries)  that these files are to be found at such and such a place.

Its NOT anemosity or anything like that, its business and if I can narrow down these files exposure to say just a few then I can also make a deal of getting 40 or 50% in commissions.

Its better then to find them on what?  page 15 or 20?

Quote from: lagereek on April 14, 2011, 10:49

Well Im not going to waste time hanging around a crippled site like this. I give it to end of next week...

Give it longer than that.  The craziness is going to continue, as management becomes a revolving door and key staff and technical people burn out and leave.  There's no telling when or how it will end, but it can't go on forever and it will end badly.  Let's wait for the inevitable "big shakeup" and see what happens.

Very good advice.  Best to wait a year or so until the sale, IPO, or whatever's on the horizon actually happens.  Then we will have a better idea where Istock is heading into the future.  

Doubtful that Istock will ever become the warm and friendly place a lot of us remember, but there is a good chance it will at least become functional and more consistent at some point after the dust settles.  

Youre right actually, better wait a year or something. No, IS, will never be the same again, the trust and the "know how" how to professionaly run an agency is forever blown away.
There are just certain things and even on moral grounds a business, any business just does not lend themselves to.

Just hate to see you throw in the towel yet, Christian.  You have put so much work into building your port and "brand" at IS.  Don't blame you at all for wanting to tell them where to stick it.  

Quote from: lagereek on April 14, 2011, 10:49

Well Im not going to waste time hanging around a crippled site like this. I give it to end of next week, if things havent changed at least a swing towards the "normal" I am without doubt removing at least some 60 blue and red files, some with 2K dls,  Im letting a large amount of buyers ( oh yes I have got to know quite a few from enquiries)  that these files are to be found at such and such a place.

Its NOT anemosity or anything like that, its business and if I can narrow down these files exposure to say just a few then I can also make a deal of getting 40 or 50% in commissions.

Its better then to find them on what?  page 15 or 20?

This is certainly a 180. Did you and Gostwyck touch an evil monkey skull and switch brains or something? Seriously though, is this all over the best match? It seems as crummy as it's been over the years that this can't be the worst permutation ever. I remember when I was on the last page for "cartoon dog" of the best match. I was literally the worst match. Those illustrations still got downloads though. I've always given buyers the benefit of the doubt for finding the images that are good regardless of what the search spits out or the agencies push.

No! as lisa says, Im not throwing in the towel but you have to admit, sometimes it feels like it, doesnt it?

No! as lisa says, Im not throwing in the towel but you have to admit, sometimes it feels like it, doesnt it?

Well, let me know if you decide to give up, so I can start working on my industrial photography. First, I have to learn which way to point the camera though. Also, does iStock accept shots with my thumb on the lens?  

no need to throw in the towel, better to persevere I suppose and like you said, wait and see what happens, whatever happens? it cant get any worse.

BTW. Your images are showing up in search here in Europe and Scandinavia, no need to worry.

best.

Oh, that's great to hear!  Thanks a lot for letting me know I am still showing up in Europe

Glad you are sticking around for awhile.  I would miss your particular style of commenting on this ongoing drama at IS!