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Author Topic: The curse of overfiltering  (Read 22234 times)

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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2008, 12:59 »
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Over filtered is the generic term used by reviewers to mean:

"I think you modified this image (I don't know how, and I may be wrong) and I don't like the way it looks"



miz , you're a genius  ;D

strangely enough that happened to me a lot ::)
the ones i thought were improved and snappy, were the ones they rejected for over filtering.

i checked my accepted shots and most of them were unfiltered, other than perharps a little bit of adjustment to brighten or darken , but only a tiny bit.

a good point to remember. thx :)


vonkara

« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2008, 14:02 »
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I do isolation whit the pen tool, make the path a selection, invert the selection if it's needed and feather the selection to 1 or 2 depending of the focus area. Then I use the paint bocket that I set to 255 of sensibility whit a all 255 white color. I click on the selected area and there it goes.

I always check anyway for non white 244 or whatever by selecting the white background whit a 0 select tool and there's never of this pixels, because the paint bocket was set to 255 and painted over all the non white pixels.

That way I can isolate any objects that I photograph whitout beeing in the studio if that can help anyone. Making the whole pen tool selection takes about 10 minutes. Whit good music the operation is not that bad after all

« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2008, 06:56 »
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And yet, they show this example as the "image of the week"



Granted, they claim it is a temporary image place holder for the 3 millionth image online, but still - an interesting example of something that they'd never allow us to upload.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 06:57 by maunger »

fotoKmyst

« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2008, 07:00 »
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And yet, they show this example as the "image of the week"



Granted, they claim it is a temporary image place holder for the 3 millionth image online, but still - an interesting example of something that they'd never allow us to upload.


maybe it belongs to a reviewer LOL

« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2008, 07:28 »
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That would be 'bitter', CEO,  as shot and manipulated by 'jjrd' Head of Content purely as a placeholder.

DanP68

« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2008, 07:32 »
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And yet, they show this example as the "image of the week"






LOL.  Remember their Photo of the year?  The farmer chasing the naked something or other, with a bunch of heads growing in the garden?  Yeah, I'm sure that was straight out of the camera!   ;D

« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 08:48 by DanP68 »

« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2008, 09:00 »
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I don't think that "overfiltering" is the same as "clver photoshop work".

In the example with the heads, there is no "overfiltering".  The sky is natural, the figures are natural, the heads are natural, all they have done is pasted the heads into the veggie patch.

It's not over saturated, it doesn't have an over use of noise reduction software, it doesn't have obvious post processing problems.  That is what overfiltering is.

« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2008, 09:24 »
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I don't think that "overfiltering" is the same as "clver photoshop work".

In the example with the heads, there is no "overfiltering".  The sky is natural, the figures are natural, the heads are natural, all they have done is pasted the heads into the veggie patch.

It's not over saturated, it doesn't have an over use of noise reduction software, it doesn't have obvious post processing problems.  That is what overfiltering is.

That's as maybe but that is the reason given for rejection for 'overuse' of Photoshop!

« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2008, 09:57 »
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I never would have used that photo as a starting point because does the sky not have lost highlights?  That's what my rejection would have said (the cabbage heads is a whole other story).   I can't tell you how many times I see the photo of the week and think that I wouldn't have dared even submitting it. 

« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2008, 10:13 »
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That's as maybe but that is the reason given for rejection for 'overuse' of Photoshop!

"Overuse" of photoshop well, is very different to "overuse" done badly.

Clearly that example that comes up time and time again is a clever use of photoshop, and is well executed.

As for highlights lost in the sky - I don't see those.  I live in the UK and out skies are always blown!

DanP68

« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2008, 10:22 »
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No way that picture would have been accepted if it was from an independent contributor.

You don't see the blown highlights?   ::)  You'd make an interesting reviewer, particularly since you think editorial = celebrity.

It may be clever, but it is questonable stock.  And despite all of the front page publicity this image has gotten, as well as its top placement in Best Match, it only has 500 or so downloads in nearly 2 years.  If it were great stock, and so clever, it would have thousands and thousands of DLs by now.  But it doesn't, so buyers obviously aren't as impressed as iStock.  Actually the iStock Top 10 most downloaded files of the LAST MONTH generally eclipse this image.

And "Overfiltering" when it comes to IS reviewers clearly refers to any and all work in Photoshop.  I've had overfiltering rejections from image combinations.  They call Levels and Curves work "overfiltering," although neither "filters" an image.  And I've never had a heavily filtered image rejected if it was an on-camera filter.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 10:39 by DanP68 »

« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2008, 11:44 »
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Of course I see the highlights in the sky in the image from a technical point of view, I meant I don't "see" them anymore because I'm so used to looking at white skies.  Today is the first blue sky I've seen in months.

And I don't think editorial = celebrity, I think editorial = news.

And I'd make a crap reviewer, because I wouldn't have the patience to sit and do it for 0.08$ an image.

None the less, that is an excellent picture in my opinion, and clearly in the eyes of others too.

This "overfiltered" rejection seems to have some people stumped.  I had a cross processed file in my portfolio at iStock for a while till I removed it, and pretty much all my images are "filtered" in some way (according to iStocks definitions).  The key to it is to start with a perfectly exposed image at ISO100 then you have an awful lot of leway with what you can do to it before you hit noise and posterisation.

The only overfiltered rejections I've had on iStock were the first shots I took with my 5D and new lens - the combo produced particually saturated images and now I know to turn the saturation down slightly when shooting certain types of light.  Or perhaps the reviewer didn't believe that the UK could have such glorious blue skies in Winter...

DanP68

« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2008, 12:10 »
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In our business though, the only opinion which matters is that of the customers'. Having your peers give you accolades is nice.  But I'd prefer sales.  500 downloads in 18-24 months at iStock is nothing special, particularly for an exclusive.

« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2008, 16:22 »
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And "Overfiltering" when it comes to IS reviewers clearly refers to any and all work in Photoshop. 


I have this impression too.  I uploaded an edited version of the same image I have previously uploaded, with two hard light layers.  They said it was overfiltered.  Indeed, that's the intended unnatural effect (explained in the description, BTW).  The natural roughness of the dry soil is emphasized in the process.



Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2008, 18:00 »
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And yet, they show this example as the "image of the week"



Granted, they claim it is a temporary image place holder for the 3 millionth image online, but still - an interesting example of something that they'd never allow us to upload.


maybe it belongs to a reviewer LOL


that was my first thought too when I saw this image

DanP68

« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2008, 19:30 »
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I have this impression too.  I uploaded an edited version of the same image I have previously uploaded, with two hard light layers.  They said it was overfiltered.  Indeed, that's the intended unnatural effect (explained in the description, BTW).  The natural roughness of the dry soil is emphasized in the process.



Regards,
Adelaide



It is what it is Madelaide.  I like the earnings iStock provides me, generally coming in around 25-29% of total every month.  But I find their image library to be very dull looking compared to Shutterstock, Dreamstime and Fotolia.  Obviously it is what iStock wants, and they are very successful for doing things their way.  But as I have asked before, how much of it has to do with them truly giving buyers what they want, and how much of it has to do with them having the huge first-mover advantage?

I prefer the image on the right for all the obvious reasons.  And I contend that most designers would not be able to filter it properly and achieve the look you provided. 

What I find most frustrating is the inconsistency.  Sometimes they will accept an image I worked on quite a bit with a big contrast/saturation boost, and then turn around and reject an image where I barely touched the levels for overfiltering. 

But I take a very Zen like view of reviews these days.  The way I see it, every upload I make is not only a test of my skills, but that of the agency itself.  If an agency turns down an image, and that image subsequently flops with little sales elsewhere, then the agency made a very good decision.  If they turn down an image which subsequently sells well elsewhere, then they made a mistake and must pay the price of lost revenue.  Every time the image sells somewhere else, they lose a tiny bit of earnings power to their competition.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 19:36 by DanP68 »

modellocate

  • Photographer
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2008, 21:35 »
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Not every notice contains a clue of how to correct an image. I've received the "over-filtered" notice on files that were strait out of the camera, for example an image on a brightly colored background -- which I got accepted by filtering it to be less saturated.

My advice on getting rejections reversed is pretty simple: don't rely on the rejection comment to tell you everything to do; look at the image and ask yourself how you could improve it -- make it something people want to buy.

And also remember that there are other sites that are not only easier to gain acceptance on, but that will likely earn you more money.

Hope my 2 cents helps.

digiology

« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2008, 21:50 »
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I overfiltered these and they were rejected with a resubmit. What now? :-\





« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2008, 11:52 »
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 important: reviewers (in my opinion) are mot than 50% right. - i cryed few times to scout - that s some 5:1 for me so far now (or 5:2). - but that's a pain in the ass... i rather give up (and take my money on some of competitor sites).
 time/nerves saving advices:
-don't look on "exclusive uploads" (a lot of crap accepted)(that's understandable - we all love all kids, but our own kids are precious to us ;) )
-dont' even think to look on "exclusive uploads"
-if you still have dilemma - should i look on "exclusive uploads" (on the main page) - advice is: NO!.
 of course - i'm not talking about "exclusive flags" these people are really good ;) - i'm talking about exclusives with some (or less) 1-2k images, and less than 20k dl's..
 reviewers on is sometimes look on exif, and not (even) on photo => reviewer with lack of photographic experience (and yes - there are ones too) - can reject image with some fool reason based on exif, and not on a real photo.

 *illustration: one of is photographer-colleagues  told me via e-mail that he had his files rejected due "overfiltering/artifacts" with (crop) camera he havs. -images, of course are excellent, with excellent both, models, make up, and postproduction. ...and he is international known ;). when he deleted exif data - he had less rejections. and when images were done over a 5d image - as a new layer in photoshop- all are accepted (where all this noise/overfiltering/artifacts has gone? :) :) )
 interesting? ;)

DanP68

« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2008, 08:54 »
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I find iStock discovers artifacting in a lot of my images whether I do some post work on them or not.  Shutterstock and Dreamstime does not find this artifacting, so either iStock reviewers are far superior to their counterparts, or they are mistaken.

It really doesn't matter much to me.  Provided Shutterstock, DT, and FT want my work and sell my work, my earnings keep growing.  iStock is a distant 2nd in earnings for me now, something I never thought would happen.  The forthcoming SS raise will lengthen the lead.  One more raise from DT or FT is likely to push iS down to third.

I really do like iStock.  Once you get past the woo-yay stuff, the community is educated and committed.  The earnings are strong, and the management is responsive to change. But I do think there is a difference in that Shutterstock and Dreamstime look at images to see if they have sales potential, whereas iStock looks at images and tries to find a reason not to accept them.  Hopefully a year from now my technique will be strong enough that I won't have all of the problems IS sees in my work.  I know I can never find the artifacting they say is there.  But the farther back they fall in my earnings race, the less I am concerned with whether my newest images are there or elsewhere.


« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2008, 15:27 »
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This is really funny... and frustrated at the same time cuz roughly 80% of my last 2 batches were refused for artifacting. All I did was adjust curves as I usually do. I now shoot with a D300 at ISO100. Technically, my images have never looked better at 100%. What pisses me off is that I now spend good money on shoots as this is my main income now. And Istock giving me roughyl 35% of that income.

I wrote to scout to see what's up. To be continued....


 

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