Author Topic: the END of microstock !!! (Read 20975 times)

lisafx · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2013, 10:44 »

Well, since you are crossposting your gleeful post-mortem on microstock as an industry, I guess I will crosspost my response:

When microstock began, it was small, individual contributors with low production costs, producing a few thousand images at most. The appeal was the low cost and the variety that all those small individual portfolios together provided.

At the time, the big players with high production values were in RM and macro RF, where they belonged. Buyers who wanted that level of images understood they had to pay a premium for them. Microstock was for the buyers who just wanted "good enough" at a low price.

Huge factories like Yuri, Monkeybusiness, etc. upset the balance for everybody, by flooding the micro market with tens of thousands of images that probably didn't belong at that price point in the first place. And Yuri has obviously discovered that YURI's production model doesn't work for micro. I expect Cathy Yeulet, Andres Rodriquez, and maybe a few other big factories will eventually come to the same conclusion.

Perhaps after this period of rebalancing occurs, the market will settle back to mass produced HPV images being sold at high prices, and LPV, inexpensive images by mom & pop producers will once again dominate the micro sites.

lisafx · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2013, 10:46 »

Quote from: loop on May 18, 2013, 07:50

(And , actually, I suppose that now Yuri will get 45% oh his sales on IS)

I'd bet he's getting more like 60% as a result of his private deal.

tickstock · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2013, 10:51 »

lisafx · « **Reply #28 on:** May 18, 2013, 10:57 »

Quote from: tickstock on May 18, 2013, 10:51

I think Yuri's production model works for micro, it's just that he could make even more money by not selling on the sub sites. He's going to continue to sell on Istock, maybe you don't consider that microstock though?

It remains to be seen at what price point his future images will be sold. His statement suggested that his partnership was with Getty/Istock, and not merely Istock. Also, if most of his stuff winds up in the Vetta and S+ collections at Istock, no, that is not really microstock prices.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #29 on:** May 18, 2013, 11:20 »

Quote from: lisafx on May 18, 2013, 10:46

Quote from: loop on May 18, 2013, 07:50

(And , actually, I suppose that now Yuri will get 45% oh his sales on IS)

I'd bet he's getting more like 60% as a result of his private deal.

If he's going to go the "Blend" route with having only a Getty collection that's offered on IS as well (and not directly submitting to IS), that should upset the macro guys, as they only get 20% afaik.

tab62 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 18, 2013, 11:33 »

How do I give Sharpshot TWO HEARTS instead of ONE HEART?

tab62 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 18, 2013, 11:40 »

Just told my wife and she thinks this is good for us. Her comparison is that I am more like Walmart or Target where Yuri is Nordstroms. There are buyers in all three of these stores thus a good thing at least for me

w7lwi · « **Reply #32 on:** May 18, 2013, 12:00 »

Quote from: rubyroo on May 18, 2013, 04:40

Indeed. Not the end - just the furniture being moved around a bit. I feel this says more about Yuri's overheads than it does about the demise of microstock.

No doubt those who have copied his style and lighting will do very well on non-Getty agencies in his absence.

Great post btw Sharpshot.

More like the deck chairs being moved around on the Titanic.

stockastic · « **Reply #33 on:** May 18, 2013, 12:10 »

I'm not convinced this is a good sign. Won't buyers eventually get the feeling there's nothing new and good on the microstocks any more? The idea of being left behind in a declining, low-end market, doesn't thrill me - is it supposed to? There's no money in selling something at WalMart unless your volume is huge.

Seems like the market is being differentiated, which is inevitable, and whether you lose or benefit depends on where you end up.

Xanox · « **Reply #34 on:** May 18, 2013, 13:33 »

Quote from: sjlocke on May 18, 2013, 11:20

If he's going to go the "Blend" route with having only a Getty collection that's offered on IS as well (and not directly submitting to IS), that should upset the macro guys, as they only get 20% afaik.

20% is for individual contributors.
but agencies have a contract with Getty, guess it's at least 40%.

Xanox · « **Reply #35 on:** May 18, 2013, 13:54 »

Quote from: lisafx on May 18, 2013, 10:44

At the time, the big players with high production values were in RM and macro RF, where they belonged. Buyers who wanted that level of images understood they had to pay a premium for them. Microstock was for the buyers who just wanted "good enough" at a low price.

even less than that, it literally started as a designers' forum with free images, and then switching to 1$ images to recover the hosting costs.

yeah, later evolved into "good enough" images, and then to images on par or better than getty.

so now what's the situation ?

that the top seller (Yuri) already smelled the sh-it a couple years ago and launched his own agency and now he's under the wing of Getty.

the end of an era ... as we "dinosaurs" predicted a looong time ago.

micro agencies will keep prosper, but micro as business model for photographer will soon crash and burn.
it will take some time but that's the obvious conclusion if the trend continues and agencies have no reason to double or triple our fees.

the digital market is now all about big volumes, the single artist is just a number, stock is NOT an exception to this logic unfortunately, and it's one of the few markets where you can still make a living actually.

Xanox · « **Reply #36 on:** May 18, 2013, 14:04 »

Quote from: stockastic on May 18, 2013, 12:10

I'm not convinced this is a good sign. Won't buyers eventually get the feeling there's nothing new and good on the microstocks any more? The idea of being left behind in a declining, low-end market, doesn't thrill me - is it supposed to? There's no money in selling something at WalMart unless your volume is huge.

Seems like the market is being differentiated, which is inevitable, and whether you lose or benefit depends on where you end up.

well, buyers had 10 golden years of rock bottom cheap images so they should not complain if suddenly quality drops where it belongs .. pay peanuts get monkeys !

low-end market ? it's already a low end market, there's nothing lower or cheaper than micro and micro subs in particular.

look at the numbers ... Yuri was running a 100 employee "factory" and yet couldnt stay aflot producing in Denmark with a 30-40% taxation, he had to move to S.Africa and still struggling.

if HE can't do it, who will ?

gostwyck · « **Reply #37 on:** May 18, 2013, 14:41 »

Quote from: Xanox on May 18, 2013, 14:04

Quote from: stockastic on May 18, 2013, 12:10
I'm not convinced this is a good sign. Won't buyers eventually get the feeling there's nothing new and good on the microstocks any more? The idea of being left behind in a declining, low-end market, doesn't thrill me - is it supposed to? There's no money in selling something at WalMart unless your volume is huge.

Seems like the market is being differentiated, which is inevitable, and whether you lose or benefit depends on where you end up.

well, buyers had 10 golden years of rock bottom cheap images so they should not complain if suddenly quality drops where it belongs .. pay peanuts get monkeys !

low-end market ? it's already a low end market, there's nothing lower or cheaper than micro and micro subs in particular.

look at the numbers ... Yuri was running a 100 employee "factory" and yet couldnt stay aflot producing in Denmark with a 30-40% taxation, he had to move to S.Africa and still struggling.

if HE can't do it, who will ?

^^^ We're all doomed! DOOMED I tell you __ all of us!

Pauws99 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 18, 2013, 14:44 »

So the end is in 12 months or so rather than tomorrow? Meanwhile it seems that many sites are growing - though I would expect some consolidation - theres a lot of mediocre sites out there with no USP.

tab62 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 18, 2013, 15:36 »

According to the Maya Calendar Microstock is over by 12/21/2013. Wait, wasn't that 12/21/2012 or was it...

Pauws99 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 18, 2013, 15:43 »

If only the mayans hadn't signed up to IStock - they'd still be around today

loop · « **Reply #41 on:** May 18, 2013, 17:42 »

Quote from: Xanox on May 18, 2013, 13:54

Quote from: lisafx on May 18, 2013, 10:44

At the time, the big players with high production values were in RM and macro RF, where they belonged. Buyers who wanted that level of images understood they had to pay a premium for them. Microstock was for the buyers who just wanted "good enough" at a low price.

even less than that, it literally started as a designers' forum with free images, and then switching to 1$ images to recover the hosting costs.

yeah, later evolved into "good enough" images, and then to images on par or better than getty.

so now what's the situation ?

that the top seller (Yuri) already smelled the sh-it a couple years ago and launched his own agency and now he's under the wing of Getty.

the end of an era ... as we "dinosaurs" predicted a looong time ago.

micro agencies will keep prosper, but micro as business model for photographer will soon crash and burn.
it will take some time but that's the obvious conclusion if the trend continues and agencies have no reason to double or triple our fees.

the digital market is now all about big volumes, the single artist is just a number, stock is NOT an exception to this logic unfortunately, and it's one of the few markets where you can still make a living actually.

Spending years and years confusing desires with reality could be a personality disorder.

Xanox · « **Reply #42 on:** May 18, 2013, 22:33 »

Quote from: loop on May 18, 2013, 17:42

Spending years and years confusing desires with reality could be a personality disorder.

try thinking like an investor.

i would certainly buy shares of SS in this moment, they're doing a great job, they're delivering, they're a solid company.

but what about photographers ? would you lend them some money ? why agencies should pay them more, why with millions of new images per year their sales should remain steady ?

it's obvious, especially in the most competitive niches like business and lifestyle, that the shelf life of new images is getting shorter and that overall sales and going downwards and that the more these agencies keep adding new images the more your portfolio will become irrilevant in the long run.

it's a buyers market now and it can only go worse, sooner or later it will go on par with the other digital markets where now it's impossible for the single artist to make a living.

and actually in some markets they only add new products for vanity or advertising or promotions.
very very few are making money with Beatport or Itunes, and no single authors making a million with their ebook on Amazon.

AOL doesnt even pay bloggers anymore, newspapers pay a pittance for both articles and photos.

dont think stock is an exception, actually it's still paying fairly good compared to other markets, but for how long ?

the reason it hasnt tanked already is because of licencing, model/property releases, and Keywording.
Keywording is the single reason buyers havent moved to Flickr or Instagram ... there are great images there but they cant find them and if they do they probably cant use them due to licensing/release limitations.

so they stick with stock, but it's not gonna work forever.
pricewise the point of non return has been already reached as far as photographers are concerned.
nobody can survive selling subs on SS, and soon it will be impossible selling micro as well, just give it a couple years and you will see.

the only way to make a difference is owning a large portfolio like Yuri does but he's an agency now, he could not do it all alone even working 16hrs a day.

can YOU compete with him ? and if he can't make decent money with that, how will YOU do ?

his departure from microstock is the final signal that this business is no more sustainable for single photographers.

that's the moral of the story, that's why i'm saying "the END of microstock".
the writing is on the wall.

what would be the signal if Warren Buffett suddenly sells his shares in Cocacola and IBM ?
how about Apple shares losing 50% of their value in a few months despite good profits and good sales ?

maybe you guys lack a strategic thinking.

agencies like Stocksy are going nowhere, and people like Bruce have been very very lucky from the start, becoming millionaire by chance without any idea or business model, just because of a lucky strike, sorry but now things have changed big time in the industry.

IS and SS can certainly raise prices in the future, but our slice of the pie will remain the same or become even smaller, they just dont need us at this point, all we can do is double or triple our portfolios just to stay afloat.

so, do you really plan to stay in such a cut-throat business or ... ?

Sion · « **Reply #43 on:** May 19, 2013, 03:54 »

Quote from: Xanox on May 18, 2013, 02:45

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!

all i can say ... I TOLD YOU SO ... many yrs i told you so, been banned for telling the truth ... and now your microstock hero Yuri gives up micros and jumps ship on macro RF/RM as he finally realized he couldnt even pay the bills selling 0.5$ subs !

You're dead right!

With the end of microstock hopefully we could transfer all our files to macrostock where a file will sell for $200 or more.

ShadySue · « **Reply #44 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:29 »

It's by no means the end of microstock.
Yuri has no doubt negotiated a very favourable deal with Getty, higher percentage guaranteed even if the continue to shaft the rest of us, immunity from shady deals like the GooglePlus one, (or much higher compensation, or only some of his lower-selling files to be included, or somesuch), favourable positioning, etc.
Where does that leave the rest?
For many of us, e.g. me, it will make no difference, as we have not one image in Yuri's field of endeavour. Even if his fans were to follow him to iS/Getty in droves, it won't make much difference to non-competitors.

However within his genre:
For exclusives, it's a two-edged sword. There will now be many more of his images on iS/Getty, but they'll be competing in the same price range, whereas previously his files were much cheaper.
The people who are most likely to feel the pinch are his acolytes already exclusive, who will now be competing on equal terms with their tutor.
For indies, again, good and bad. Good, they are no longer competing against him on most sites. Good, even on iS, they are now undercutting his files. Perhaps some of his biggest fans will shift agencies to follow him to iS/Getty, but they weren't buying the other files anyway, and presumably weren't following him to People Images in such a quantity that made PI viable. However, many buyers will still stay at e.g. SS because of the cheapness of the files. Others will still be there using up their subscription until it expires at least. So indies in that genre will presumably see a boost in their downloads in the short term at least, and presumably into the future via buyers for whom 'cheap' is more important than 'celebrity producer'.

So, much as Xanox might rant, news of the demise of microstock is premature.

sharpshot · « **Reply #45 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:48 »

Quote from: Xanox on May 18, 2013, 22:33

Quote from: loop on May 18, 2013, 17:42
Spending years and years confusing desires with reality could be a personality disorder.

try thinking like an investor.

i would certainly buy shares of SS in this moment, they're doing a great job, they're delivering, they're a solid company.

but what about photographers ? would you lend them some money ? why agencies should pay them more, why with millions of new images per year their sales should remain steady ?

it's obvious, especially in the most competitive niches like business and lifestyle, that the shelf life of new images is getting shorter and that overall sales and going downwards and that the more these agencies keep adding new images the more your portfolio will become irrilevant in the long run.

it's a buyers market now and it can only go worse, sooner or later it will go on par with the other digital markets where now it's impossible for the single artist to make a living.

and actually in some markets they only add new products for vanity or advertising or promotions.
very very few are making money with Beatport or Itunes, and no single authors making a million with their ebook on Amazon.

AOL doesnt even pay bloggers anymore, newspapers pay a pittance for both articles and photos.

dont think stock is an exception, actually it's still paying fairly good compared to other markets, but for how long ?

the reason it hasnt tanked already is because of licencing, model/property releases, and Keywording.
Keywording is the single reason buyers havent moved to Flickr or Instagram ... there are great images there but they cant find them and if they do they probably cant use them due to licensing/release limitations.

so they stick with stock, but it's not gonna work forever.
pricewise the point of non return has been already reached as far as photographers are concerned.
nobody can survive selling subs on SS, and soon it will be impossible selling micro as well, just give it a couple years and you will see.

the only way to make a difference is owning a large portfolio like Yuri does but he's an agency now, he could not do it all alone even working 16hrs a day.

can YOU compete with him ? and if he can't make decent money with that, how will YOU do ?

his departure from microstock is the final signal that this business is no more sustainable for single photographers.

that's the moral of the story, that's why i'm saying "the END of microstock".
the writing is on the wall.

what would be the signal if Warren Buffett suddenly sells his shares in Cocacola and IBM ?
how about Apple shares losing 50% of their value in a few months despite good profits and good sales ?

maybe you guys lack a strategic thinking.

agencies like Stocksy are going nowhere, and people like Bruce have been very very lucky from the start, becoming millionaire by chance without any idea or business model, just because of a lucky strike, sorry but now things have changed big time in the industry.

IS and SS can certainly raise prices in the future, but our slice of the pie will remain the same or become even smaller, they just dont need us at this point, all we can do is double or triple our portfolios just to stay afloat.

so, do you really plan to stay in such a cut-throat business or ... ?

More BS. You say nobody can survive selling subs on SS, totally ignoring the fact that SS is much more than a subs site. My RPD there has gone up every year since 2006. They sell more and more on demand, SOD's and lots more EL's than the other sites. I haven't uploaded much for the past 2 years but my SS earnings keep increasing. It's the opposite of how you would like it to be. I'm sorry that the people that have been predicting the imminent demise of microstock for at least the last 7 years have got it so wrong and that they continue thinking that everything that happens is bad for microstock contributors but it clearly isn't true.

I'd like to see the end of commission cuts and it might be more difficult to make a living from microstock in the future but the same could be said about macro. Alamy have cut my commissions twice now, lowered prices and competition has drastically increased. I don't think Getty contributors have had it easy. We all have the same problems and idiots that still think microstock is the only problem after all these years are deluding themselves.

aspp · « **Reply #46 on:** May 19, 2013, 05:09 »

Quote from: Xanox on May 18, 2013, 22:33

try thinking like an investor.

i would certainly buy shares of SS in this moment, they're doing a great job, they're delivering, they're a solid company.

SS is a great company. So far they seem to have done absolutely everything right. If I fancied them long term I would be hoping to pick them up for less in 6 or 12 months. They have done very well since launch but in a rapidly rising market which is trading on relatively very low volume. Therefore I would be cautious of how much further the market has to run this time.

Colette · « **Reply #47 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:43 »

The END of microstock? Because one man leaves?

When you throw too much big stones in a mountainstream the water will simply search other ways to flow down the mountain. But it will flow.
You forgot one thing: contributors are the OWNERS of the content that stays with the agencies.
When agencies go too far with the ongoing lowering of paying their contributors, photographers will search other ways to sell their images and when they are able to make a living otherwise, they will leave and take their images with them.

There will allways be new starting contributors, but how long does it take for them to ‘stand out from the crowd’ and to be able to produce the highest demanded and high valued images AND enough of them on a regular base? (And when they reach that point they are likely also going Yuri’s way.)

This is not only about Yuri’s decision, it's also about Stocksy, about Symbiostock… No one is able to predict today if this leads to somewhere and how and where this leads to …This will also not happen within a short term, but over time the stock industry will probably show big changes.

Of course it will not be the END of Microstock. There's still a growing demand for images worldwide and even a demand for images that can be easily produced. And when there is demand, there will be supply.
But yes: for the over suplied low-end market it will be harder and harder to make more then ‘pocket- money’.

The END of the dinosaurs? Perhaps!

Tryingmybest · « **Reply #48 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:59 »

I think we need an END of this thread

cathyslife · « **Reply #49 on:** May 19, 2013, 07:10 »

Quote from: stockastic on May 18, 2013, 12:10

I'm not convinced this is a good sign. Won't buyers eventually get the feeling there's nothing new and good on the microstocks any more? The idea of being left behind in a declining, low-end market, doesn't thrill me - is it supposed to? There's no money in selling something at WalMart unless your volume is huge.

Seems like the market is being differentiated, which is inevitable, and whether you lose or benefit depends on where you end up.

I dont get why you think that Yuri is the only one producing new and good images. Even if all the factories left, there are still plenty of good contributors uploading good images. In fact, maybe everyone else will now have a shot at getting their images seen.

I dont think any of us wanted there to be a race to the bottom. Blame that on the greedy agencies who saw an opportunity and had the money to drive our royalties low. In the world we all were hoping to see 8 years ago, our royalties would steadily increase as new and better images were being submitted. And then your Yuris jumped in and ruined even more.

I think its great that yuri is going getty. They deserve each other. I can see that the market is recovering a little, but i dont think that means that companies are going to be willing to pay $200 for an image when they've been paying $20. To me, THAT wouldnt be good business. Microstock's not going anywhere. The day the yuris and gettys can bully the rest of the world into paying overbloated prices is the day we all are doomed anyway.

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Author Topic: the END of microstock !!! (Read 20975 times)

lisafx

lisafx

tickstock

lisafx

Sean Locke Photography

tab62

tab62

w7lwi

stockastic

Xanox

Xanox

Xanox

gostwyck

Pauws99

tab62

Pauws99

loop

Xanox

Sion

ShadySue

sharpshot

aspp

Colette

Tryingmybest

cathyslife

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