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Author Topic: The New best match and the 80/20 Rule  (Read 25043 times)

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lisafx

« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2008, 12:29 »
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On the other hand, anybody joining IS today, well they better go exclusive, that word is a truly beloved word inside IS and much, much more important then image-quality.

I agree Christian.  Although some of the best image producers in the business are exclusive, a significant number of them aren't and between restrictive upload limits, increased rejections,  and search engine obscurity, they are doing all they can to supress high quality non-exclusive images from the collection.

The current best match favors people who are both exclusive, and high cannister (with the exception of portfolios that have a lot of vectors and/or videos).   I am diamond and not exclusive and I have seen sales cut in half from the first week of October to the first week of November. 

I did just have a couple of new files downloaded today, though.  It's too soon to tell if that signals a best match change or just dumb luck. 

I sincerely hope they come up with a fairer best match.  Way too many people have been hurt by this one.  This is the first best match where I have heard people threatening to stop uploading, and lower cannister exclusives considering turning in their crowns.


« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2008, 12:43 »
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RED- current month
BLUE-all time

Graph shows the ratio of profits by agencies in percentage ....

So far IS was the second, BUT this month has a zero percent...  HORROR!!!

We must appeal directly to IS!!!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 12:45 by borg »

« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2008, 13:03 »
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Quote
I did just have a couple of new files downloaded today, though.  It's too soon to tell if that signals a best match change or just dumb luck. 

Also had a new file download today and it is by far the best day for sales since the middle of October. The only files being downloaded in the last half of October were stand-out photos in saturated areas and unique images with not much, or no, competition. Maybe today is a positive indicator that things are improving? Actually, all the agencies seem to be doing better than average today :) A post-election boost?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 13:09 by epantha »

« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2008, 13:23 »
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It could just be the month.  November seems to be great for sales.

« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2008, 13:30 »
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.  This is the first best match where I have heard people threatening to stop uploading, and lower cannister exclusives considering turning in their crowns.

Threat or the real thing, either way it amounts to the same thing. Those images won't sell if they don't get uploaded. Or likely won't sell if they get uploaded. Nothing different. The only thing keeping uploads going for me is the restrictive limits.



PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2008, 21:18 »
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Yes but youve got to remember, IS, ( no offence to anybody) is basically an amateur site, working on the laws of quantity. i.e. if one supplier quits there are dozens to replace him. They dont care if a contributor supply strong commercial imagery as long as they can produce. For the opposite youve got to go to a Trad-RM agency.
Me?  I will NOT upload anymore specialized images involving MRs etc, waste of time.
On the other hand, anybody joining IS today, well they better go exclusive, that word is a truly beloved word inside IS and much, much more important then image-quality.

It depends on which supplier quits. Yuri is getting 500-1000 downloads a day. If he quit that alone could be 1% of IS's downloads/revenue. If other top contributors start losing faith and a dozen drop exclusivity and another dozen drop IS completely I would say that would have a huge impact on IS's revenue.


bittersweet

« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2008, 21:49 »
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Yes but youve got to remember, IS, ( no offence to anybody) is basically an amateur site, working on the laws of quantity. i.e. if one supplier quits there are dozens to replace him. They dont care if a contributor supply strong commercial imagery as long as they can produce. For the opposite youve got to go to a Trad-RM agency.
Me?  I will NOT upload anymore specialized images involving MRs etc, waste of time.
On the other hand, anybody joining IS today, well they better go exclusive, that word is a truly beloved word inside IS and much, much more important then image-quality.

It depends on which supplier quits. Yuri is getting 500-1000 downloads a day. If he quit that alone could be 1% of IS's downloads/revenue. If other top contributors start losing faith and a dozen drop exclusivity and another dozen drop IS completely I would say that would have a huge impact on IS's revenue.




He had 830 downloads yesterday. You think he'd give up several hundred dollars a day income on principle? Why?

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2008, 22:06 »
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No, but if over time he kept uploading 1,000 files a year and his daily downloads continued dropping he may reach a point where he no longer uploads or gets disgusted and leaves. If he, and a lot of other top contributors, start submitting all of their new stuff somewhere else instead of IS, IS starts to lose value for buyers.

I've stopped uploading. It's no longer worth my time at this point. October was my 14th consecutive BME. This month is shaping up to be down 50% from October which will make it one of the worst months I've had since I started there. I'm a handful of downloads short of silver so I'm giving it some time to see how the dust settles. I'm using that time to test the waters elsewhere. 

EDIT: For crappy grammar and spelling.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 22:31 by PaulieWalnuts »

« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2008, 22:16 »
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Yuri, yuri, yuri !

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2008, 22:19 »
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Haaaa! Okay, okay Sean. How's this?

"It depends on which supplier quits. Sean is getting 500-1000 downloads a day. If he quit that alone could be 1% of IS's downloads/revenue. If other top contributors start losing faith and a dozen drop exclusivity and another dozen drop IS completely I would say that would have a huge impact on IS's revenue."

« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2008, 22:25 »
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Mom always said, don't play ball in the house!

« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2008, 00:51 »
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I am starting to wonder whether istock's exclusivity program has become something of an achiles heel ... when it was first introduced (is it almost 3 years ago now?) it was a brilliant strategic move to counter the growing competition from the new microstock sites - and I think it worked really really well and helped them maintain their consistent top dog status among the micros.

But today's market has really begun to change - we are seeing the entry of a number of truly professional photographers into the microstock market who were not in the market before but are starting to enter it (because the whole stock paradigm has changed - macro is failing and micro is emerging - they have done the math and see the writing on the wall) ...  and I am not just talking about Yuri here - see eg. "monkey business images", "Avava", etc - and none of these pros are going to go exclusive because it makes no financial or professional sense for them to do so ...

This group is really upping the quality level in a big big way and their output is huge (sometimes hundreds of images uploaded every week), they are allowing other micros to compete in a way they could not before on the quality and quantity front and they may very well be impacting the downloads of exclusives on istock (they seem to be taking market share at any rate)... istock is then now torn ... how to be fair to their exclusives but how also to take advantage of these newer non-exclusive pros who have great great work that is hugely sellable? I mean they must be sitting there trying to figure out which group they can afford to piss off the least every time they do a best match change

I think we are going to see more and more of these pros enter the micro market and I think as this happens the exclusivity program as it now exists at istock may start to drag it down  ... in other words, can istocks exclusivity program as it now exists survive the entry into the market of 100 Yuris or monkey business images (and of course Sean Locke now that he has given up exclusivity ;D)?

lagereek

« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2008, 02:59 »
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hoi ha!

You dont know how right you are!!  without disclosing too much, I can tell you there are, hiding behind Pseudonyms some very, very big names with recognition all over the globe supplying.
Here comes the comic part: they dont even know about it! why? cause there is no creative incentive but purely a numbers rackett and thats why exclusivity is so "important"
Idiot thing is: these best match changes disasters are spreading like wildfire, everyone seems to know, buyers that found their images on say page 2 last week, cant find them this week or as one put it " image is gone! have you got a duplicate?
Some truly "great minds" behind this mechanism.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 03:11 by lagereek »

« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2008, 03:11 »
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If istock based their upload limits on the success of their contributors, they wouldn't have a problem.  People like Yuri should be able to upload all their portfolio.  Exclusives already have much higher commissions and a big advantage with quicker reviews and higher best match placement.  At the moment, they are letting people upload images that are highly unlikely to sell while others that would make lots of money are missing from the site.  How long will it take for that to change?

Now they also have StockXpert with the missing high selling images but I am sure a lot of buyers are going to SS, DT, FT etc.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 03:14 by sharpshot »

lagereek

« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2008, 03:34 »
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If istock based their upload limits on the success of their contributors, they wouldn't have a problem.  People like Yuri should be able to upload all their portfolio.  Exclusives already have much higher commissions and a big advantage with quicker reviews and higher best match placement.  At the moment, they are letting people upload images that are highly unlikely to sell while others that would make lots of money are missing from the site.  How long will it take for that to change?

Now they also have StockXpert with the missing high selling images but I am sure a lot of buyers are going to SS, DT, FT etc.


I dont think StockXpert came with this deal?  all I know is that SS, FT, DT are up, up, up and its not too hard to figure why?

« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2008, 05:34 »
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...(and of course Sean Locke now that he has given up exclusivity ;D)?

When did this happen?

I still see a crown on sjlocke's profile at IS!

« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2008, 05:51 »
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...(and of course Sean Locke now that he has given up exclusivity ;D)?

When did this happen?

I still see a crown on sjlocke's profile at IS!

It's a joke ... kind of in response to the posts above mine ... so don't go starting any rumours now - I might get in big trouble with istock's biggest defender !!! ::)

lisafx

« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2008, 08:58 »
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I think we are going to see more and more of these pros enter the micro market and I think as this happens the exclusivity program as it now exists at istock may start to drag it down  ... in other words, can istocks exclusivity program as it now exists survive the entry into the market of 100 Yuris or monkey business images

I agree with all your points hoi ha, but just to play devil's advocate:

I think istock's restrictive upload limits on non-exclusive members have turned out to be one of the big attractions of exclusivity.  Where independents have to compete against the full portfolios of these new, prolific pros across all sites, istock exclusives are only competing against a couple of hundred images from each.  In the short term, this means istock's exclusives are insulated from a lot of the dog-eat-dog competition the rest of us face on the other sites. 

OTOH they ARE competing with these pros full portfolios if you consider that buyers may just go elsewhere to buy their images.  Will this leave istock exclusives vying for pieces of an ever-shrinking pie?  Too soon to tell. 


« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2008, 09:52 »
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Istock should just put us all out of our misery, become an exclusive-only site, and send us all to StockXpert.  But, can they?

Bear with me, I'm going to compare Istock to my school cachment.  I live in a bedroom community 1.6km from school. If we were 1.7km (1/10th km farther!) my kids would get a free bus and be able to stay for lunch.  The school bus stop is 3 doors over.  Instead, I have to drive out past the bus stop every day and pay so that my kids can stay at school for lunch.  Although I am not technically in "the town", the "town kids" pay for the entire lunch program.  There would be no lunch supervisors if the "town kids" didn't supplement the out-of-town kids.  If we all brought our kids home for lunch they would be f*cked; the school board would have to somehow pay for the supervisors and everyones' school taxes in this cachment would go up.  It would set a precedent and they would have to do the same in all their other cachments in this district.

As delicious as it sounds, can Istock become an exclusive-only site?  I doubt it.  I think they likely need the 80% bonus they receive from every non-exclusive sale to maintain the exclusives, marketing, and business.

Not hoping to jinx it, but I've had daily sales again this week.  They likely realized with their best match in October they weren't grossing enough % and had to give non-exclusives more sales to plump up the bottom line.

« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2008, 10:14 »
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I have 2 PPD dl.s last 24h...
Maybe will be better...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 10:23 by borg »

AVAVA

« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2008, 12:01 »
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I'm Back!

 Hi All,

 This is Chumley aka Jonathan aka AVAVA aka The Jackal. No I never used The Jackal but its a good name. I have been taking counciling classes have found a better therapist and am running every day so I might just be able to hang with you guy's without losing it. We'll see. I am prepared for a few pokes so take your best shot I am ready. :-[

 I have been following the posts and want to say that this is by far the best forum out there ( suck up ) I admire you all for sharing your thoughts openly without fear of reaction my hat is off to you all. I was Chumley here before and will always have a bit of Chumley in my heart so if there is ever anything I can offer anyone about the stock industry I will always try my best to answer the question or seek it out then reply. happy to send PM's.

 I had to finally return when Hoi Ha spoke up in this thread and mentioned my name. I am now part of the Micro community. Its true you really really like me ( bad Sally Fields impression ) All kidding aside I think Hoi Ha is making some sense. Many from the Macro side have asked the same question and I have heard from inside that the same buzz is going on further up the pole. How do you keep your exclusives happy but also include the best sellable work that your competitors offer. Tough question I would think over time that Istock will switch their exclusive program around a bit ( speculation ). Give the exclusives better percentage, personal editor, maybe even more uploads but let your customer decide what work is best for their needs by leveling the placement playing field. Competition only makes us all better, its what pushes you to improve and makes you have to think.

 Another point you have to realize is that there are many Macro shooters who would love to become exclusive at Istock but because they will not let you become exclusive without removing all your images from every RF collection outside of Getty they are keeping all the older dogs out of the exclusive option. I can not remove my images from Macro sites for up to 7 years that is the contract you sign when you go Macro. So for those of us that were shooting RF Macro more than several years ago we cannot go exclusive at Istock even if we wanted. Not complaining just pointing out why Monkey Business might not be exclusive at Istock. I know it is the reason I am not trying exclusivity, I just am not allowed to within their contract limitations.

 The Macro world has been exclusive for years. They consider exclusivity to be about the image not the shooter. You can only put your Macro RF work you submit to Getty in the collection they decide and you cannot send it on to say Corbis for their use. This is a reasonable contract. You can then turn around and shoot another job for Corbis ( if you have a contract ) the very next day and you have not broken the original contract with Getty as long as the work is different. To make photographers sign a contract that says you can only sell your Rf images through our portal kind of takes away the contractor relationship that this industry is based on and makes you more of an employee without the health benefits. We as photographers are really contractors with our own business. We should be able to send different work to different vendors that is the way most companies work with contractors.

 When you contract for Microsoft you might sign an agreement that says as long as you work for us you will not produce any other work for our competitors but when that contract is up you are aloud to work for the next software company, in most cases. Not the same work you did for Microsoft but you can create new work for your next client. I don't see Istocks contract working in that fashion. All that aside remember it is your choice if you want to be exclusive so if you are not tied to another contract you have the freedom to choose.

 The thing you have to ask yourself is WHY? Why are these changes occuring and how do they benefit the owners of the company. Many hypothesis out there so let me throw out another completely unsubstantiated view of what might be taking place. Remember these are very smart people that own Getty so why would they allow an exclusive model to continue the way they have. Could it be they want growth in the Micro market but not so much as it hurts their Macro market ( good reason for buying up Jupiter ). Getty has a great deal more invested in their Macro RF than they do in Istock. If they can control the Micro market they can keep it in its place and only allow enough growth as not to hurt their biggest income maker Macro RF.

 Buy up and control the Micro market and you can make money at all levels. Let one grow to fast and it will hurt the other. I have seen Macro RF sales start to flatten after two years of drops is this where it will stay. Again ask yourself if you owned a company that only 20% of your income was made from one model ( Micro ) and any further growth would hurt the larger portions of your income how far would you let it go and what might be your options to control all levels of your industry.

 What if tomorrow Getty took their Holly Owned Macro RF ( the stuff they own and don't split a commission with a photographer ) and dumped it into Istock and put it at the top of the search. This is not impossible. There are so many scenarios I could go on for days. It comes down to " we don't know " but I can garentee you that they are working round the clock to maximize their sales especially after being bought out.

 I don't know what the answer is at this point that is why I have added 3500 images to Micro ( only 1500 up so far the rest are uploading over the next month ) spreading your eggs as much as possible is the answer to security in any volatile market place. If you ever played roulette you know what I am speaking of.

 At this point all I can add is " Don't live in fear of tomorrow it will only slow down what you can achieve today " I made that up you can use it if you want. ;)


Peace,
AVAVA ( Chumley )

 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 12:17 by AVAVA »

« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2008, 12:49 »
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"This is Chumley aka Jonathan aka AVAVA aka The Jackal."

Hey there Jonathan.. Good to see you again.. We missed you.. :D

lisafx

« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2008, 13:26 »
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Very thoughtful and informed post Jonathan!
Interesting reading! :)

« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2008, 14:39 »
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>>>>>>>What if tomorrow Getty took their Holly Owned Macro RF ( the stuff they own and don't split a commission with a photographer ) and dumped it into Istock and put it at the top of the search. This is not impossible. There are so many scenarios I could go on for days. It comes down to " we don't know " but I can garentee you that they are working round the clock to maximize their sales especially after being bought out.

this is probably the best argument AGAINST IS exclusivity anyone has put forward -- pratical considerations aside, i find it amazing that anyone would risk it all with one agency when the % benefits of IS exclusives are so low. 


imagine the position of an IS exclsuive photographer whose portfolio was weighted towards cars and other images that IS suddenly banned?

there's an old tag about dancing among elephants -- most of us are never going to compete with the big guys.  i experienced this in the computer games industry 20+ years ago and it applies today -- there i made conscious decisions to find niches that the large companies missed.  some of my choices cdontinue to bring in royalties 15 yrs later.  the advantage of smaller is to be able to move quickly and adapt in changing conditions.  it's a lot of work, but it's never boring.

steve

« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2008, 15:22 »
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Should that happen, I don't think it will, because getty would lose a lot of revenue, istock exclusives wouldn't be the only hurt. WIth all existing getty images at istock, competing microsites would see lots of customers fleeing to istock,and that would decimate sales everywhere.


 

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