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Author Topic: The POWER of iStockPhoto -- market share analysis  (Read 9343 times)

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« on: May 11, 2012, 03:34 »
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data:

so, the fact is
  • ShutterStock: $100 million in revenue in 2011
  • Getty Images: revenues of about $945 million through the 12 months ended December 2011 (I believe this included iStockPhoto contribution

And according to the figures in microstockdiaries:

iStockphotos Dittmar Frohman presented on the..... Most interestingly were the weekly royalty payout amount now up to $1.9million

Let's say the average royalty percentage is around 30%, and the lowest and highest are 15% and 45%

30%:  $1.9million x 3.3 x 52 = $326 million
15%:  $1.9million x 6.6 x 52 = $652 million
45%:  $1.9million x 2.2 x 52 = $217 million

See, the sales force, or, the sales POWER of iStockPhoto is at least double than ShutterStock.

Correct me if I am wrong, and any insight input is welcomed.

PS. welcome ads in my website (www.tukusheying.com)    ;D


« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2012, 04:48 »
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Is there a difference between revenue and turnover? How is the revenue measured? Is is pre/after tax value? Does this calculation include offers, promotions and refferals? As an economist and statistician I would say: +/- 70% error in the calculations. Good job :-)

Pav

« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2012, 05:19 »
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I believe it's pretty well established that iStock's turnover is three or four times Shutterstock's but what interests me is the amount that I get paid. Istock commissions are spread across a much larger pool of suppliers and may average a lower percentage than SS, though it is impossible to know for sure.

« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 07:33 »
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Oh boy. Looks like istock's got a new social media marketing campaign going.  ::) Just keep posting those links to drive the traffic.

« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 07:52 »
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I believe it's pretty well established that iStock's turnover is three or four times Shutterstock's but what interests me is the amount that I get paid. Istock commissions are spread across a much larger pool of suppliers and may average a lower percentage than SS, though it is impossible to know for sure.

Well, I don't really know, but I think SS has probably more suppliers than istock. At least, the have more images.

« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 09:14 »
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I'm assuming that in the weekly "payout" numbers for iStock, all the payments going back to Getty - for Hulton Archive, all the Agency stuff that isn't real iStock contributors, EdStock and soon Stockbyte - are included. More and more of the money from iStock isn't going into the pockets of real iStock contributors.

Aside from details like that though, what's your point? Even if iStock is bigger than Shutterstock, what does that mean for buyers or contributors? Even if SS were bigger than IS, it's certainly not bigger than Getty. Like it or not, Getty is the dominant company in the stock image (possibly video & audio too, but I don't know) market.

« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2012, 09:23 »
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My portfolio at SS (& BigStock) earns me about 60% more money each month than it does at IS (& the PP). Therefore SS has far more POWER, to use your expression, than IS for me.

« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2012, 11:06 »
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My portfolio at SS (& BigStock) earns me about 60% more money each month than it does at IS (& the PP). Therefore SS has far more POWER, to use your expression, than IS for me.

Plus SS has a history of accepting far more images than IS, doesn't pollute their archives with agency images that compete directly with their contributors, nor does SS have skimpy weekly upload limits.  My earnings at SS are 1.5x what IS (and the PP) generates as a result, while BigStock has caught up to 60% of my IS earnings and continues to grow.  That sure doesn't spell "power" for IS. 

« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2012, 11:24 »
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William, good job! The information is very interesting.

Even though many people were hurt by iStock's past practice, it should not prevent us from learning some stats.

« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 11:31 »
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This Getty Images "It takes more" ad campaign still cracks me up. I just saw one while surfing.  ;D

lagereek

« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 11:43 »
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No big news, I dont think anybody doubt that. Differant customers, strategy, etc. Pitty though, had they played their cards right, they could have had twice that turnover,  but they settled for less.

« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 11:44 »
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Istock has more selling power for exclusives but just look at the earnings poll month after month for non-exclusives.  It looks like SS has more selling power for non-exclusives and as I'm one of them, that's what matters to me.  Would it be wise to go exclusive with istock now?  It might be for some people but my portfolio seems to work better with SS.  Istock rejected too many of my best selling images.  I also don't like relying on a site that pays low commission percentages and is likely to lower them in the future.

I wonder how the selling power has changed over the years?  It appears to me that SS has been progressing faster than istock and I don't see that changing.

traveler1116

« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 12:04 »
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Istock has more selling power for exclusives but just look at the earnings poll month after month for non-exclusives.  It looks like SS has more selling power for non-exclusives and as I'm one of them, that's what matters to me.  Would it be wise to go exclusive with istock now?  It might be for some people but my portfolio seems to work better with SS.  Istock rejected too many of my best selling images.  I also don't like relying on a site that pays low commission percentages and is likely to lower them in the future.

I wonder how the selling power has changed over the years?  It appears to me that SS has been progressing faster than istock and I don't see that changing.
Would it be worth it, hard to say but with the changes in pricing for exclusive vs. nonexclusive the differences have been enhanced a lot.  You would probably make a minimum of 4x what you make on IS as a nonexclusive, plus more for Vetta/Agency files, plus I think about 50% more for TS and the PP, plus mirrored Getty Images sales, and now the new E+ mirroring which on the face sounds good (we'll have to see how that plays out, I don't know if anything sells there but to me the E+ collection looks better than the Stockbyte collection).  As far as percentage goes SS is offering 20-30% for single image sales which is lower or the same as what a vast majority of exclusives make.  With the changes in pricing now I regularly get 5 dollars for an XS sale, to me it's hard to say that IS gives less than SS when an XXXL sale there goes for 38 cents (TS goes for 42 cents and the last XXXL E+ file I sold at IS went for over $30).

« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 14:27 »
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I believe it's pretty well established that iStock's turnover is three or four times Shutterstock's but what interests me is the amount that I get paid. Istock commissions are spread across a much larger pool of suppliers and may average a lower percentage than SS, though it is impossible to know for sure.

Well, I don't really know, but I think SS has probably more suppliers than istock. At least, the have more images.

Why do you think there would there be any correlation between the contributor numbers and image numbers? Istock has upload restrictions, SS doesn't. On the other hand, IS has all the serious independent contributors PLUS all the exclusives. SS is barred from having iS exclusives. So there is a whole bunch of iS suppliers that SS can't have.

« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 18:26 »
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I believe it's pretty well established that iStock's turnover is three or four times Shutterstock's but what interests me is the amount that I get paid. Istock commissions are spread across a much larger pool of suppliers and may average a lower percentage than SS, though it is impossible to know for sure.

exactly.. this guy needS to sit down and read instead of openning these wow topics :D
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 18:20 by luissantos84 »

« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 19:28 »
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...with the changes in pricing for exclusive vs. nonexclusive the differences have been enhanced a lot.  You would probably make a minimum of 4x what you make on IS as a nonexclusive, plus more for Vetta/Agency files, plus I think about 50% more for TS and the PP, plus mirrored Getty Images sales, and now the new E+ mirroring which on the face sounds good (we'll have to see how that plays out, I don't know if anything sells there but to me the E+ collection looks better than the Stockbyte collection). 
I have to admit, with DT falling off a cliff, 123RF mainly subs, I dropped FT, stockfresh is dead in the water, veer seems a crock...I'm seriously thinking exclusive is the way to go for me - SS has never exceeded IS for me by any real margin, so these benefits are enticing...just so hard to get my head around submitting only to a company that i regard as incompotent and so bloody greedy

« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 19:34 »
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I have to admit, with DT falling off a cliff, 123RF mainly subs, I dropped FT, stockfresh is dead in the water, veer seems a crock...I'm seriously thinking exclusive is the way to go for me - SS has never exceeded IS for me by any real margin, so these benefits are enticing...just so hard to get my head around submitting only to a company that i regard as incompotent and so bloody greedy

Don't do it. You will so regret it within a couple of years. The writing is on the wall, loud and clear.

« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2012, 19:44 »
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I have to admit, with DT falling off a cliff, 123RF mainly subs, I dropped FT, stockfresh is dead in the water, veer seems a crock...I'm seriously thinking exclusive is the way to go for me - SS has never exceeded IS for me by any real margin, so these benefits are enticing...just so hard to get my head around submitting only to a company that i regard as incompotent and so bloody greedy

Don't do it. You will so regret it within a couple of years. The writing is on the wall, loud and clear.
I think you're probably right.  It does seem tempting though when you read of some people having decent GI sales month on month...then I see 123RF XL sales for a frickin' pittance :)   

« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2012, 19:44 »
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...with the changes in pricing for exclusive vs. nonexclusive the differences have been enhanced a lot.  You would probably make a minimum of 4x what you make on IS as a nonexclusive, plus more for Vetta/Agency files, plus I think about 50% more for TS and the PP, plus mirrored Getty Images sales, and now the new E+ mirroring which on the face sounds good (we'll have to see how that plays out, I don't know if anything sells there but to me the E+ collection looks better than the Stockbyte collection). 
I have to admit, with DT falling off a cliff, 123RF mainly subs, I dropped FT, stockfresh is dead in the water, veer seems a crock...I'm seriously thinking exclusive is the way to go for me - SS has never exceeded IS for me by any real margin, so these benefits are enticing...just so hard to get my head around submitting only to a company that i regard as incompotent and so bloody greedy

It was a very appealing proposition at one time - at least to me (I was exclusive from 2008 to 2011). I had thought/hoped it would take Getty longer to dismantle everything that was good about iStock for an exclusive than it did.

They are currently on a long march to 20% maximum for everyone on Getty - the latest fun there is moving exclusive plus to Getty in the Stockbyte collection (and possibly into Thinkstock as well given that a portion of Stockbyte is already there) and all of Stockbyte to iStock. The latter further dilutes earnings for real iStock contributors and the former pays you a flat 20% with no RCs (in other words all your sales there decrease your ability to earn a higher percentage for your sales on iStock). I won't reiterate the long list of things that has changed in the last two years that have materially altered the picture for exclusives, but I think the big problem with your plan is that what you sign up for today won't be the same in 6 months, 1 year, and on out. Very likely even if the business grows, the payouts to contributors will continue to shrink (as a percentage of the take). The bite from that will really be apparent as the continuing decline in volume of sales can't be made up for by jacking up prices yet again.

Having just made the transition back to independent from exclusive (June 2011 to now; I was previously independent from 2004 to 2008) I would just note that it's not an easy transition to make. Possible, but hard.

« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 19:52 »
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I love the fact that you explain you were exclusive and now independent, etc. as if any of us might not know who you are! :)

I certainly don't see long term stability with IS, and I certainly wouldn't trust them on their word (just need to look at the grandfathering fiasco, if Lisa for example had went for that she might have been royally screwed) - I guess I was just thinking out loud that sales are so dire at most places other than SS/IS, and with the added incentive of E+ going over to getty, it might be woth a punt for a while - certainly I don't think I'd miss DT anymore than I miss FT...

« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2012, 02:12 »
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There are just few points for me:

1) Monopoly is very bad. Getty and IS already showed us how their "value" their contributors.

2) SS is earning me far more then IS and if I include other agencies, IS share on earnings drops to 15-20%.

3) I dont trust agency which screwed their contributors each month for 11 months in a row during 2011...

4) Even if nothing else happens, IS upload limits and often quite ridiculous rejections prevent you from growing your portfolio fast enough.

helix7

« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2012, 10:13 »
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...stockfresh is dead in the water...

Totally off-topic, but just wanted to mention, SF is showing signs of life for me. I'm up to $20 earnings so far this month. Still nothing to get excited about, but it's significantly better than where I was with them a month or two back.

lisafx

« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2012, 15:41 »
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...stockfresh is dead in the water...

Totally off-topic, but just wanted to mention, SF is showing signs of life for me. I'm up to $20 earnings so far this month. Still nothing to get excited about, but it's significantly better than where I was with them a month or two back.

I'm glad to hear someone's getting sales there.  I have been patient, but sales actually seem to be getting worse for me there, which I would not have thought possible.    Have you been uploading much the last couple of months Mike? 

« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2012, 18:15 »
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...stockfresh is dead in the water...

Totally off-topic, but just wanted to mention, SF is showing signs of life for me. I'm up to $20 earnings so far this month. Still nothing to get excited about, but it's significantly better than where I was with them a month or two back.

Good for you.  I was about to pull my port today. $3 a month ain't cutting it for me with 2500 images. I decided to let it ride solely because there is little risk, tho some.

helix7

« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 10:47 »
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...Have you been uploading much the last couple of months Mike? 

Some, but not my usual pace of uploads. I wouldn't attribute the new sales to anything I'm doing, really. Seems like it's either just coincidence, dumb luck, or possibly some new buyer activity.


 

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