Im really beginning to wonder. Was chatting over the net here with a few members, diamond independants, who is also experiencing the worlds worst in October/November, it turns out that one of them is a close friend of an exclusive black-diamond, who complained to him that during these two months, he is down about 50%, asking him if its any better at other sites and so on.

Man, when these kind of members are beginning to complain, well, thats scary, sure it does prove its not only us but its also an indication, things are REALLY down and im just puzzled, asking myself, whats is happening? Must be something else, cant just be buyers are leaving and all that jazz, I mean, pics are still being dld but where?

My small portfolio is running at less than 50% of what I was expecting so far this month. I have assumed up to now that the steady decline was simply chickens coming home to roost following the relentless increasing in prices/unnecessary complexity in collections/general mis-management/low contributor and buyer morale. Howwever, this month feels far more like falling off the edge of a cliff, so I too echo the OP's question What is really going on?? Is there any chance at all somebody will tell us?

I've got black diamond status, but it doesn't really mean much these. Gold members can easily outsell black diamonds. The canister program is now out of date and for the most part irrelevant.

Actual sales figures are a different story, and by the look of it, it looks like this month could be 20 - 25% less in sales then expected. That is a lot. I try not to complain. Last year my sales dropped in October by 20% and that was the first time ever. Prior to that, I always saw constant growth. So I was a little bummed out, but 2011 looked to be recovering. Not anymore.

My guess has always been that declining sales was a result of overly aggressive pricing for Agency files (250 credits) and Vetta files (150 credits). This suggests that iStock has lost sight of it's values as being a simple, good value image market.

Also, more recently, and this was based on the survey results (obviously), the newer files were given more room up front in the searches. This hurt a lot of seasoned artists and benefitted the newer ones. But now, even the newer artists are suffering from less sales.

I'm really curious to see how the management will respond...

Well yes, as a Diamond myself, my sales are at least 50% down and falling. I think we have to face facts,  this is not a flash in the pan, not something that will pass and Lobos best match comment, "this is what the customers want" has turned out to be the worst possible scenario for just about everybody. If they think they can survive this one and on what some futile 5K exclusives, of which probably 1K, have quit exclusivity?  No way. The whole site has become a laughing stock.

ranplet!  the management respond? well this IS management are just puppets, no clout or saying what so ever, when they are told to dance, boy!  they will dance and their response are a messed up site with RC problems, the lot.
How far into 2012, will this company last?  Sites like SS, DT, FT, are doing brillant and rising, thats the best indication we have.

Quote from: lagereek on November 25, 2011, 01:33

Well yes, as a Diamond myself, my sales are at least 50% down and falling. I think we have to face facts,  this is not a flash in the pan, not something that will pass and Lobos best match comment, "this is what the customers want" has turned out to be the worst possible scenario for just about everybody. If they think they can survive this one and on what some futile 5K exclusives, of which probably 1K, have quit exclusivity?  No way. The whole site has become a laughing stock.

ranplet!  the management respond? well this IS management are just puppets, no clout or saying what so ever, when they are told to dance, boy!  they will dance and their response are a messed up site with RC problems, the lot.
How far into 2012, will this company last?

Yeah but in your case you told us you removed 8 blue flames the other day. Anyway, I'm sorry its not happening for Diamonds right now - my own sales are good this month. 20+ downloads on some days but I also recall a month or so back hardly getting any sales so..... phew, I dunno

Yeah, even so that was the other day, right, should not have an effect on the entire 2011 ?  right. You have to put it in perspective, for you 20 sales are good, for me, 20 sales is NOT a good day.

It takes time to lose customers and suppliers. Once done it is hard to undo.

When your favourite restaurant puts up prices you will still probably go there but are more open to looking elsewhere. The restaurant will however have increased profits immediately. When the suppliers are getting less of you than elsewhere they will favour others. Once again however the restaurant will have increased profits immediately. Once however you do start to lose customers and suppliers you are in trouble. Add to that a confused menu of dishes on offer and poor customer service?

You're missing one factor which, I suspect, makes things worse: You've already paid the restaurant $1,000 in advance on the promise of getting $10 meals against your account. When the meals go up to $20 you still have to eat your next 50 meals there, even if you feel it is now out of your price range. This is likely to leave a feeling that you've been conned, so when you finally get to dine elsewhere and they come asking you to go back saying you'll get a better deal in future, your reaction will be: "How stupid do you think I am?"

To take the restaurant anology a little further ... it used to be a cheap but good diner, which is why you went there so frequently. Now they keep trying to sell you the lobster thermidore and even the original dishes are twice the price they used to be. They've totally forgottten the basic philosophy on which they built their business.

Well, I wish all of the agencies would do that, we'd be much better off

What does that analogy make us?  The chefs who put together the artistic creations, or the spud suppliers?

Either way, our wages are getting screwed up 

In my case, chief cook and bottle-washer.

What does that analogy make us?  The chefs who put together the artistic creations, or the spud suppliers?

Either way, our wages are getting screwed up 

you are the spud supplier, the chefs are the staff who are still getting paid , some of these are also spud suppliers who only supply Chez Stock and some are diners who bring a bunch of friends with them to eat and introduce others to eat there .....

Quote from: rubyroo on November 25, 2011, 04:21

What does that analogy make us?  The chefs who put together the artistic creations, or the spud suppliers?

Either way, our wages are getting screwed up 

you are the spud supplier, the chefs are the staff who are still getting paid , some of these are also spud suppliers who only supply Chez Stock and some are diners who bring a bunch of friends with them to eat and introduce others to eat there .....

...and the diners used to get a free meal for introducing friends, now they've got to fill out impossible forms which makes it nearly impossible to get the free meal...whereas the restaurants just down the road make it quite easy

I was browsing for something completely different when I happened to see this link. I have never heard of Superdry, and have no idea what kind of business they are, but I thought Deborah Meaden's (Dragon's Den) comment on its success were appropriate here:
"I say to big companies that they need to behave as though they are an entrepreneurial small business, because as firms get larger, they tend to stop doing that, become arrogant and complacent and lose the qualities that made them great.   ..... they know what they are good at and also what their weaknesses are. ... The company is making sure it has the right expertise to help it develop. "
More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/technology/microsoft-office-365/8897226/Deborah-Meaden-praises-Superdrys-entrepreneurialism.html

I fear that might very well true, and I think iStock may turn out to have shot themselves in the foot by forcing independents into TS.  If sales continue to dwindle, and if that IS a result of a customer migration to TS, then the only option independents will be left with is to pull out of iStock altogether rather than have their ports continue to be available on a site that undercuts their biggest earner (SS).

If that DOES happen, then they will have to start forcing exclusives to contribute to TS to keep it alive, and then I imagine the same cycle of dropping returns and the need for self-preservation would repeat itself.

Just my own thoughts.

I was browsing for something completely different when I happened to see this link. I have never heard of Superdry, and have no idea what kind of business they are, but I thought Deborah Meaden's (Dragon's Den) comment on its success were appropriate here:
"I say to big companies that they need to behave as though they are an entrepreneurial small business, because as firms get larger, they tend to stop doing that, become arrogant and complacent and lose the qualities that made them great.   ..... they know what they are good at and also what their weaknesses are. ... The company is making sure it has the right expertise to help it develop. "
More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/technology/microsoft-office-365/8897226/Deborah-Meaden-praises-Superdrys-entrepreneurialism.html

I love Dragons Den (the US version - Shark Tank - is not half as good). That quote is very pertinent. Someone else posted a while back about how fast IS's transition was, how fast it became the opposite of what it started out as. It used to be a great little company, so far it is terrible at being part of a big corporation.

November is my best month this year on IS :-). The most popular P+ files do the job, the volume is also higher than any other month this year (and still 5 days to go). I'm not happy with 15%, wouldn't recommend IS to friends, wouldn't even mention this site (I try to advertise the smallest ;-) But this month IS rocks in my stats...

Good! but Im afraid its no indication of anything, unless you are diamond/gold contributor. Almost all of the lower cannister contributors are reporting great sales and almost all of the higher contributors are reporting terrible sales. Much more difficult to top 1000, dls per month then say, 200.

Hi Chris
I don't know what's going on. It looks like they've completely lost the original plot and are going off who knows where. The whole thing of these large amounts of outside content coming in presumably diluting sales, and the way normal contributors complaints and concerns seem to be dealt with at present don't give me a great deal of hope for the future.
What I do know is that my own sales are about 60% of what they were this time last year / early this year.

I cannot complain. My sales at Istock keep growing. I am fairly new at the micro game. It worries me like other Istock contributors the download spiral that many are reporting. On the other hand coming from the macro side, I value that Istock introduced Vetta and Agency collections although I am not a Vetta/Agency shooter. I think Shutterstock is not a viable proposition for photographers who rely on a type of photography that doesn't fit into the "popular subject or style" and would never recoup the production costs associated on that type of images if a higher price would be charged for those images. This is a strong reason why many powerful very creative exclusives will stay in Istock. The 30c subscription option will never work for them.....

I can hear you are new to this, Im coming heavily from Macro myself but have never heard of your spiel. 0.30c a throw, hey? you sure got that wrong, SODs at nearly 3 bucks a throw are raining down at SS, so are ELs and single sales, Im an IS Diamond, yet SS brings me in 10 times more, hows that for starters?  and if you are new to Micro, your track-record at IS so far can not be anything at all to go bye.
Sorry to rain on your parade.

Im an IS Diamond, yet SS brings me in 10 times more, hows that for starters?

  Well obviously Istock is not playing well for you at the moment, or SS is just doing extraordinary well. When I went exclusive my earnings increased 8xtimes the next month. Remember that the income for exclusives is much higher because of royalty cut, prices and what is more important best match. it doesn't surprise me that with such low commissions and bad best match placement for non exclusives so many are reporting such dismal sales.

In relation to SS, there is a place for everyone , RM, macro RF-Vetta-Agency, micro pay-per-download and subscriptions. Nowadays Istock/Getty tries to be present at all those segments (for clients and image producers). SS is not there yet.

 Figures like the Microstock 2010 survey http://blog.microstockgroup.com/microstock-income-vs-portfolio-size/ point that exclusive Istock contributors are generally speaking doing better than non exclusives. This might of course change in a heartbeat. No empire lasts forever. And the monthly earning posts are without a doubt a sign to be concerned.

...This is a strong reason why many powerful very creative exclusives will stay in Istock. The 30c subscription option will never work for them.....

This spring, Getty forced participation in subscription programs (Thinkstock and photos.com) on its contract holders. For the moment, iStock exclusives have the ability to opt out, but I can't imagine that's going to stay that way - it wasn't as if the Getty contributors liked the moved or asked for it. Not only are subscriptions likely to be in all exclusives' future (not just those who chose the PP voluntarily), but you get no RC for any sales at any other site, so to the extent sales migrate from iStock to Getty (upstream) or TS/photos.com (downstream), your ability to keep your higher royalty percentage at iStock is weakened.

The pre-September 2010 iStock was an alternative; since then, I don't think so.

This spring, Getty forced participation in subscription programs (Thinkstock and photos.com) on its contract holders. For the moment, iStock exclusives have the ability to opt out, but I can't imagine that's going to stay that way - it wasn't as if the Getty contributors liked the moved or asked for it. Not only are subscriptions likely to be in all exclusives' future (not just those who chose the PP voluntarily), but you get no RC for any sales at any other site, so to the extent sales migrate from iStock to Getty (upstream) or TS/photos.com (downstream), your ability to keep your higher royalty percentage at iStock is weakened.

The pre-September 2010 iStock was an alternative; since then, I don't think so.

True. I also concur that sooner or later exclusives might have to swallow that  bitter pill. I had to sign a few months back the new Gettyimages contract were new RF images can go also to Thinkstock or photos.com. So at some point they might need those "exclusive" images to compete successfully with the subscription market leader. I am not so sure that Vetta or Agency images will follow that path but who knows whats in Getty's executive heads. With the new RC system they aim to that 20% standard for RF they are used to, so yes the migration to those subscription site will erode the RC targets.

This is one reason that it is extremely important that Istock competition stays healthy and a viable option to any photographer so that they know that if they push the envelope too far they will get abandoned, a process that has started already, you are a strong proof of that. And loosing exclusive contributors like you is no doubt hurting them and this is a reason that they don't squeeze us even more. A balance between as many agencies as possible is the best for our interests. If any of them kills the others we will be all in deep trouble,  be it Istock or Shutterstock (read in the past they were interested to sell part of it in the stock market-any truth in that?).

In any case you have been on both fences now and know better than most us here what to expect from being exclusive or not. As I said before I am quite happy with my progression but as many exclusives at the same time very nervous to have all eggs in one basket. I hope and wish that I can keep in this environment for many years to follow but if the situation gets unsustainable the alternative to jump ship as you did is always there.

Maybe they are simply distributing wealth, diluting the wight of people who entered earlier when there was not much competition and had the luck to sell images so many times that those were on top of the search just by being early lucky images. That way nobody will have much power. Newbies will keep coming and old timers will struggle to keep their earnings.

It's the opposite of fotolia, the agency that doesn't give a chance to newbies and just makes everything to keep elders happy.

Who will win? The others. FT and IS will die. Too much bias in either direction is harmful in the long run.

"who will win" quote ?  well my prediction and if history is anything to go by for the last 20 years or so is: once external and internal politics problems starts like this as with IS, tons of members upset, buyers leaving, etc,  there is really no way back, its had it. I am sure that once IS, is mirrored into TS, give it a year or so, Vettas, etc, will slowly be moved and sadly, IS will be history. The agency as we know it will cease to exist.

FT: will definetley exist, its a good agency and they sell well and newbies have got to earn their place, there are no free rides or gravy-trains in this business, them days are over.

best.

Quote from: aluxum on November 26, 2011, 09:04

I think Shutterstock is not a viable proposition for photographers who rely on a type of photography that doesn't fit into the "popular subject or style" and would never recoup the production costs associated on that type of images if a higher price would be charged for those images.

I'm not sure if you are better off shooting "popular subject and style" against Yuri, Andre and 500 others or shooting unpopular subjects against one or two people nobody ever heard of. I do OK without "popular" stuff. Big fish in small pond or tiny fish in huge pond ... who gets more?

I'm wondering, what do you shoot? You don't have to be super specific, I'm just curious. You can PM me if you don't want to discuss it publicly. Or do nothing, of course