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Author Topic: doubts about LO  (Read 39351 times)

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nruboc

« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2008, 01:41 »
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Hmmm....low sales on LO and low sales on FeaturePics, now let's think about this, I know it's tough math and all but I think I'm going to have to go with FeaturePics 70% and setting my own prices versus the sad, pathetic, insulting 30% at LO and charging to put images in the almightly "side show". LO can't die quick enough for me, leave, adios see ya LO.



« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2008, 03:07 »
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I have not had a sale there since November 16th, on a portfolio of 562.
I have list for the order in which I upload to the sites, the most profitable for me at the top, down to the least return per image at the bottom. The last few sites only get submissions if I have a lot of spare time, something that does not happen often! LO is way down the list.
Its sad because they seemed like a breath of fresh air when they first started, but without sales they are not worth the effort.

« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2008, 03:57 »
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I really like LO, its just soo easy to upload to. Also I have seen an increase in sales over the last 3 months and normally get at least one sale a day, not much I know in the grand scheme of things but I still believe LO has a future.

« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2008, 03:57 »
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It's my understanding that LO still commands the loyalty of a few good photographers.
Some Photographers sing the praises of LO, while still others are bailing out the troubled waters of LO.

For those who love LO as a contributor I hear the songs praise for the reviewers politeness, attention
to details, and the unique way they powers to be conduct their business.

I for one jumped ship at LO about 9-10 months ago. I had been sitting on quite a few of my images for nearly
a year, and only attracting enough buyers to produce about $10-15. (I don't recall the exact amount).
I left LO on friendly terms, and bid them "Good Luck" as I waived goodbye and walked off into the Sunset.

I am sorry to hear That photographers at LO are drowning in their own patience, hoping the site will revive itself.
LO appeared to be on footsteps of good fortunes in the very beginning, but now appears at the back door of the local undertaker.


It's sad to say but I think that site is doomed to failure.

The MIZ

« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2008, 04:25 »
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Very low sales there.. I have been member about 1year and 4 months similar. Now I have over 1100 images online and only got ~50 sales (60$ or similar). I have over 500 credits from their upload campaign but can't use them on side sales because I need another 50 sales.. Only 2 sales within last 30 days (60 cents total). Even the Snapvillage have this much sales with few images online :). The LO site is great but the sales are very low. I will keep my images there to get payout later on this year. I do not have time and skills to write massive amounts of comments which eventually drive traffic also to your own portfolio as well. I hope they stay in business long enough to get my first payout:).

br, MJP

« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2008, 06:07 »
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On a positive note... I have had over 100 DLs at LO and have had 2 payouts. Not the kind of start that I wanted, but right now, for me (for whatever reason) LO is doing much better than Fotolia.

I don't know why people would bail on LO once putting images up there... and it is absolutely painless to upload to with FTP. I have a script set up for all of the sites that allow FTP (which leaves all but one LOL!) - i put images in a specific folder for each site, and overnight, they get uploaded. The next morning i go to the site and finish the upload... with LO that means a whopping 2 clicks i think... most of the other sites that require categories and such requires much more effort.

Anyway, I see LO taking off eventually so I won't bail out unless they have to shut their doors and i don't see that happening.

Disclaimer: yes, i am the LO forum moderator.

« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2008, 07:33 »
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I don't know why people would bail on LO once putting images up there... and it is absolutely painless to upload to with FTP.
A painless upload is not valid argument. What for ?
For 30%  from one sale a month ? 30% commission is not acceptable
For sideshow in 2010 ? If slideshow is so great why not to give us a possibility to test it immediatly ?
For payment in 2009 ? 100$ limit for slow earners is not acceptable.
We should support sites that are good for us and boycott others. There is no other way to be respected. If everybody upload everything to all sites we will never have better commissions.
Buyers will not disappear with a site...

DanP68

« Reply #107 on: January 15, 2008, 07:39 »
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I do not have time and skills to write massive amounts of comments which eventually drive traffic also to your own portfolio as well.

Exactly.  That's not a good way to drive traffic to a portfolio.  Has anyone considered that it tilts heavily toward Americans, who are chatting together and leaving comments for each other, as opposed to people from other countries who may be producing brilliant imagery?  But even so, why should folks pairing up on the message board to write comments for each other be allowed to gain added spotlight?  It seems more like a scheme than it does a relevant search result.

And why should "Views" play a role in portfolio exposure anyhow?  A View without a Sale is totally useless.  In fact I would go as far as to say a high ratio of Views to Sales suggests prospective buyers are clicking on your images, and determining that it doesn't meet their standards.


« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2008, 08:31 »
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I do not have time and skills to write massive amounts of comments which eventually drive traffic also to your own portfolio as well.

Exactly.  That's not a good way to drive traffic to a portfolio.  Has anyone considered that it tilts heavily toward Americans, who are chatting together and leaving comments for each other, as opposed to people from other countries who may be producing brilliant imagery?  But even so, why should folks pairing up on the message board to write comments for each other be allowed to gain added spotlight?  It seems more like a scheme than it does a relevant search result.

And why should "Views" play a role in portfolio exposure anyhow?  A View without a Sale is totally useless.  In fact I would go as far as to say a high ratio of Views to Sales suggests prospective buyers are clicking on your images, and determining that it doesn't meet their standards.

You're all assuming that the comments are a massive sway in the search results (you know what happens when you assume!)... we don't know exactly how much it weighs in the search algorithm... you don't know what goes into any site's "best match" - some include views (contrary to your comment above, but it does happen), some add weight for recent views, some include sales, some include ratings (who knows why), some include voodoo.

LO is trying to build a community with some user involvement... this is one way to encourage that.

By the way, it must not be a huge factor as i post all the time (since i'm forum moderator) but yet do a search and my images are NOT usually at the front of the results.

michealo

« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2008, 08:58 »
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Too be fair to LO upload is slick and fast. If you have a fast pipe you could upload thousands of images in a day ...

« Reply #110 on: January 15, 2008, 10:46 »
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I'm probably in the middle of the LO field with 172 uploads and 54 downloads in about 18 months, one payout.

Certainly poor performance all around when compared with the top ten. But many of us are in the hopeful camp. I do continue to upload new work there because it's so quick and easy. If LO was as difficult to upload to as iStock I would have been long gone.

« Reply #111 on: January 15, 2008, 11:18 »
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Times are changing. I've had 2 sales this year (woo-hoo, 60 cents).   I've also had 2 rejections - that wouldn't be surprising, but these photos are on SS, FT, StockXpert, 123 (still in cue elsewhere).  I don't keep track so I might be a little off, but I think that makes 5 photos rejected of about 289 submitted.   Maybe they've reached a certain mass and now are tightening up standards a little bit?   (That's A-Okay with me, and how I prefer it....)

« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2008, 13:38 »
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Well I have yet to see any evidence that comments lead to sales on LO.  My own experience does not bear it out and I have gone through the 25 recent downloads on several occasions and never seen more than two of the 25 commented - and those could have come as a result of their being in the recent download list (as is obvious with the single commented image in the current recent downloads list there).  Hear a lot of huffing and puffing on here about comments and downloads but very little hard evidence.

LO's problem is it has far too many contributors chasing far too few buyers.  Until they address those problems it will not improve there.  fred

« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2008, 14:45 »
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I agree with Fred. There is something seriously wrong with the search system at LO. I know this is dredging up another LO concern, but as an example of "wrongness" I have 668 images uploaded, 10,358 views, and one image has 2,516 views with 2 downloads. The next closest image for views has 114. I have a whopping $33.00 earned, and not a single download for several months. I'm really disappointed with LO.

My more recent work is far superior to the images which receive views--that one with 2,516 views is a very early image and really not equal to my most recent work which seems to get no views.

I have stopped uploading to LO. Doubt I'll ever be able to partake in the sideshow because I have no interest in (or time to play) the comments game if that's what it takes to get sales. That's just plain annoying and insulting. I upload images to a site so they will market them. I shouldn't have to do that along with the work of creation.

Seriously annoyed,

P__

« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2008, 15:08 »
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Here are my figures from LO for the past 18 months or so.

Portfolio - 154
Views - 235056
Sales - 114 (including 1 EL)
Received comments - 16
Given comments - 5

One file in particular has done very well for me with 208698 views and 54 downloads

Who knows how it works.

Make of it what you will, but as others have said, with such an easy upload system and a friendly review team, it's no hassle to upload.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 15:11 by massman »

« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2008, 15:16 »
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Just to address some of the comments:

nruboc- Well, I've agreed to do disagree with you...but to just set the record straight from an older reply:

2. To clarify the payout structure that sharpshot highlighted (it's not really apples to apples), our non-exclusive rate is .30 cents per token spent (but on volume purchases of tokens we absorb the discount, so the actual % is higher). We pay .50 cents per token spent for extend license and buyouts (we actually get a fair amount of extended license purchases). We also run image drives in which payouts on images are up to .60 cents per token spent.

The Sideshow is a free market system that allows artists to price their own work and also receive .50 cents per token spent. We don't charge for this feature now.

3. Exclusive images are .60 cents per token spent.  While our volume isn't quite there yet, longer term it's important to reward people for only having images at LuckyOliver.  It's not for everyone, but we have a lot of artists that want to earn money with only one company.

Right now our pricing is still higher than most other places, which mean the $ is higher per image.

rjmiz-
Well,  for a company that just hired another engineer, brought on a marketing person and a direct sales person, I'm not sure I would call that "doomed to fail". We also just expanded our technology by 4x.  That's an odd bet if we're looking to fail.

pelmof-
Comments play no direct factor in our search.  Google on the other hand likes comments.  An image with 2,516 views probably has direct traffic from Google. I wouldn't read too much into the views.

As always, feel free to chat with me, I'm available to talk. We appreciate the feedback.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 15:21 by bryan_luckyoliver »

« Reply #116 on: January 15, 2008, 15:28 »
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Here are my figures from LO for the past 18 months or so.

Portfolio - 154
Views - 235056
Sales - 114 (including 1 EL)
Received comments - 16
Given comments - 5

One file in particular has done very well for me with 208698 views and 54 downloads

Who knows how it works.

Make of it what you will, but as others have said, with such an easy upload system and a friendly review team, it's no hassle to upload.

How to hell you get some many views ;) ? I have had only total of 4747 views so far:) and only 52 sales.

#  Portfolio  (1147)
# Comments (11)
# Received Comments (28)
# The Odditorium (6)

So something is wrong with my images.

I LO site is neat and fast nowdays, but I hope sales will pick up some day...I will continue to upload new images and hope for the best.

br, MJP




« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2008, 15:53 »
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I think I just got lucky with that one image.

« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2008, 19:03 »
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Here are my figures at LO for the past 14 months.

Portfolio - 572
Views - 1500
Sales - 16
Received comments - 5
Given comments - 0

At a small, local agency like Scanstock (I believe they mostly sell in Norway), I have 5 times the downloads and almost 10 times the earnings during roughly the same time period.

« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2008, 19:44 »
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Member since Jun 29, 2006
Portfolio - 343
Views - 63618
Sales - 53
Received comments - 79
Given comments - 103

Regards,
Adelaide

DanP68

« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2008, 01:16 »
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By the way, it must not be a huge factor as i post all the time (since i'm forum moderator) but yet do a search and my images are NOT usually at the front of the results.


Devil's Advocate, Mitch.  If it doesn't play much of a role in the results, why include it all?  Again, as echoed in the other thread, if it has nothing to do with image quality or best match, why include it?

That other sites are including "voodoo" or whatever into their algorithm does not make it right.  I thought you guys want to be different?  Give the buyers what they are looking for, and only what they are looking for.  Based on what everyone in these independent board threads seem to be saying, LO is not delivering a whole of sales for their efforts.  Clearly something isn't working.

DanP68

« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2008, 01:31 »
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Bryan and Mitch -

I should clarify.  The concerns I have raised in these threads are due to my support of Lucky Oliver and hope in its future.  If I had no hope for the future, I wouldn't bother to raise a concern at all...what difference would it make?  I continue to upload, and I see 2008 as make-or-break. 

I'm willing to remain patient, but I do not wish to go another 4 months with 3 sales at LO vs. Several hundred at SS.  Especially when I am making 30c per sale at LO, which is essentially a subscription level payout.  I can get that at SS, and with 2 orders of magnitude in greater volume.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over what the Sideshow will be, and how it will work.  Maybe you could lend some more information about it so we understand it better?   ;)

DanP68

« Reply #122 on: February 05, 2008, 01:16 »
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Hey, I just had my first non-blog sale.  60 cents!   Well, that sale alone makes February 2008 a BME for me at LO.  Let's hope things are picking up.   8)

« Reply #123 on: February 05, 2008, 02:01 »
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I have had over 100 DLs at LO and have had 2 payouts.

1 + ....

Disclaimer: yes, i am the LO forum moderator.

... 1 = 2  :P

I don't know why people would bail on LO once putting images up there... and it is absolutely painless to upload to with FTP.

That's a great argument. Driving at 3am to Timbuktu is easy coz no traffic jams, so let's all drive to Timbuktu then... err... what should I do in Timbuktu? Uploading to Flickr is easy too.

If most people find out that they don't sell at LO with a portfolio that sells like cake everywhere else, then it must be the search engine. So my guess is that everybody _not_ a reviewer _not_ a forum moderator comes after page 20 of the search results.

Whatever, I'm gone. No regrets. May the force always be with LO.

« Reply #124 on: February 05, 2008, 06:32 »
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I still like LO and I am not a reviewer :)  Easy upload good reviews and sales have increased lately.  Designers do seem to like the site and are starting to download more often.  I didn't see much happen after using the sideshow but last month was a BME.  Still below other sites at $18.40 but a big improvement.  This is a chart of my average earnings per day excluding 2 EL's.  I hope it continues in this direction.





 

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