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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Microstock News => Topic started by: red on July 11, 2010, 18:34

Title: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: red on July 11, 2010, 18:34
From Jim Pickerell (Jim has been involved in the stock photography business for more than 40 years as a photographer, newsletter writer, pricing guide author, industry analysts, expert witness and co-owner of the stock agency, Stock Connection.) He recently wrote this -

A 14-month review of downloads of images belonging to 198 of iStockphoto’s leading contributors has led me to the inescapable conclusion that microstock has reached a plateau in terms of number of images downloaded. The number of images customers are purchasing is no longer growing, and may, in fact, be in a slight decline. A combined total of 567,324 images on the iStock site belong to these 198 individuals and they represent about 5.2% of iStock’s total collection. In the past six months these individuals have increased the number of images they have in their iStock collections by an average of about 10%. Also, in the past 14 months approximately 29% of all the downloads iStock has made were of images belonging to these 198 individuals.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 11, 2010, 19:18
I don't want to be Captain Obvious, but didn't iStock significantly raise prices for exclusives 6 months ago. That usually results in lower downloads, but higher revenues for contributors. Just a theory though.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: vonkara on July 11, 2010, 21:08
I don't want to be Captain Obvious, but didn't iStock significantly raise prices for exclusives 6 months ago. That usually results in lower downloads, but higher revenues for contributors. Just a theory though.
That's a fact for me
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: alias on July 12, 2010, 02:17
From Jim Pickerell (Jim has been involved in the stock photography business for more than 40 years as a photographer, newsletter writer, pricing guide author, industry analysts, expert witness and co-owner of the stock agency, Stock Connection.) He recently wrote this -

A 14-month review of downloads of images belonging to 198 of iStockphoto’s leading contributors has led me to the inescapable conclusion that microstock has reached a plateau in terms of number of images downloaded. The number of images customers are purchasing is no longer growing, and may, in fact, be in a slight decline.

The collection is growing more quickly than 198 portfolios. So it seems unlikely that the state of the business could be divined from 198 artists. He seems to be ignoring the many - to - many nature of crowd sourcing.

Quote
A combined total of 567,324 images on the iStock site belong to these 198 individuals and they represent about 5.2% of iStock’s total collection.

567,324 is not 5.2% of 7m.

Quote
in the past 14 months approximately 29% of all the downloads iStock has made were of images belonging to these 198 individuals

If the total number of downloads could be calculated from public data then that would be the number to puzzle over.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: sharpshot on July 12, 2010, 02:34
And this is just istock, what about all the other sites?  Lots of people have mentioned FT sales are improving more than istock.  I'm not sure istock is still a microstock site, prices are so much higher than the early microstock years.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: MicrostockExp on July 12, 2010, 03:25
Microstock reaching a plateau based only in this data, I don't think so....
Microstock might not be called microstock in few years anyway:)
 
We should ask Paul the Octopus, he probably have a more accurate prediction than JP  ;D
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: borg on July 12, 2010, 03:35
Internet is developing market, also a microstock even younger and a few steps behind .
Another thing, even the largest markets (India and China) are not fully opened to the internet...
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: RT on July 12, 2010, 04:04
We should ask Paul the Octopus, he probably have a more accurate prediction than JP  ;D

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I wonder if JP like many of the other "industry experts who have been in the business 40 years...blah blah blah" ever predicted that digital would never take over from film!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: gostwyck on July 12, 2010, 05:21
Although the data and the statistics quoted are somewhat suspect, to say the least, I think most of us know that microstock will eventually plateau. With supply growing faster than demand it is inevitable.

What we don't know is what will happen next __ and neither does Jim Pickerell. I guess the 'photo factories' may act as early indicators of the marketplace. All those shoots cost money and once they find that the return is declining they'll be less inclined to invest in them. The next 5 years should see a good shakeout of contributors who decide their money and time are better spent elsewhere.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on July 12, 2010, 05:52
photo factories are early but partial indicators

they can produce an high number of technically perfect - albeit similar - pictures, but have huge production costs and can't adapt easily to changes or take risks, since they have to pay employees

on the other side, one-man / one-woman photographers - either professionals or high-end hobbyists - may actually profit from the photo factories leaving the game, and still guarantee enough quality for microstock to stay interesting for buyers

so I agree that there may be a shakeout of contributors

and I especially agree that nobody knows
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PowerDroid on July 12, 2010, 06:32
I think it's a bit silly to state that a particular industry has reached its peak while we're in the middle of one of the worst global enconomic recessions in recent history.  Buyers have scaled back their purchases in ALL areas, including microstock.  Yes, large companies and ad agencies have gone from macro to micro to cut costs, but consider the case of small businesses, which have taken the biggest hit during the recession.  They have scaled back to survival levels, cutting marketing and advertising completely, or have gone out of business altogether.  Considering all this, it's shocking that microstock isn't completely in the toilet.

Now think about a global economic recovery, which will happen someday, hopefully soon.  Companies large and small will ramp up their communication efforts very quickly, and as their budgets return, they'll have learned from the lean times to spend it very wisely.  Microstock will be the big beneficiary from this. 

No, microstock has not already reached its plateau.  Tomorrow people will still need images to help their businesses communicate, and they'll want to pay as little as possible for those images.   For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 12, 2010, 06:42
No, microstock has not already reached its plateau.  Tomorrow people will still need images to help their businesses communicate, and they'll want to pay as little as possible for those images.   For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.

Shhhh.  That won't sell article "credits".
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: borg on July 12, 2010, 06:44
Plateau will be manifested in a way that the average photographer will have to make one shift  in stock of 8 hours daily, for average monthly earnings in the world...

This will be the plateau and the end of the growing recruitment of new photographers...

What powerdroid said is true...

Internet isn't yet fully marketing tool for all business and companies, but likely it will be in the future...
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Dreamframer on July 12, 2010, 07:17
Should we expect a birth of Nanostock for markets like China and India?
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on July 12, 2010, 07:22
completely agree with PowerDroid

and many other "real" jobs in other industries are far less certain than microstock nowadays
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: MicrostockExp on July 12, 2010, 08:14
According to what I see here in Malaysia  DSLR are very expensive and then copyright laws weak.The numbers of microstock contributor appears to be very small, photographers  prefer to shoot weddings, quick and good money  ;D
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PeterChigmaroff on July 12, 2010, 09:53
Analyzing the present and predicting the future are two different things. Jim's pretty good at analyzing industry data. Those closest to an industry tend to be the most myopic and I think Jim is farther from it than most of us guys. Everything can change tomorrow for unknown reason but I tend to agree, a plateau is here for the moment.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 12, 2010, 10:19
198 ports?  doesnt say much at all, had they taken the yop say 1000 ports it would have been much more interesting.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PeterChigmaroff on July 12, 2010, 11:12
198 ports?  doesnt say much at all, had they taken the yop say 1000 ports it would have been much more interesting.

Do you really need to look that far down a list? Elections are usually forecast by asking a very individuals how they voted as they left the stations. The 198 ports represent, according to JP, over a half million of the best images. To me that's a very good sample size, especially off the top. There seems to be a desire to disbelieve any stat or indication that the micro business might be on a plateau. Which of course gives the opportunity for a decline.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: borg on July 12, 2010, 13:20
Should we expect a birth of Nanostock for markets like China and India?

I don't think so!

Today they have more buyers than stockers...
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: FD on July 12, 2010, 13:41
For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.
Bingo. Ellen Boughn had some slips of the tongue a while ago, and also Arcurs. There is something being cooked, and one of the most prominent artists here made a slip of the tongue too. All those people were in Dublin and they apparently conspired there about that new "free" business model. It seems to be covered by an NDA, but we will know soon enough, I've been told in private.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 12, 2010, 13:49
Great.  Just what we need is a couple of "industry leaders" messing it up for the crowd.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cascoly on July 12, 2010, 15:15
198 ports?  doesnt say much at all, had they taken the yop say 1000 ports it would have been much more interesting.

Do you really need to look that far down a list? Elections are usually forecast by asking a very individuals how they voted as they left the stations. The 198 ports represent, according to JP, over a half million of the best images. To me that's a very good sample size, especially off the top. There seems to be a desire to disbelieve any stat or indication that the micro business might be on a plateau. Which of course gives the opportunity for a decline.

right the sample size is certainly significant, but not random .  an even more telling stat is
"Also, in the past 14 months approximately 29% of all the downloads iStock has made were of images belonging to these 198 individuals.
"

so 5% of contribuimages have 29% of sales - thus confirming sturgeon's law that " 90% of anything is crap"
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Pickerell on July 12, 2010, 15:48
Quote
A combined total of 567,324 images on the iStock site belong to these 198 individuals and they represent about 5.2% of iStock’s total collection.

567,324 is not 5.2% of 7m.

Quote
in the past 14 months approximately 29% of all the downloads iStock has made were of images belonging to these 198 individuals

If the total number of downloads could be calculated from public data then that would be the number to puzzle over.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right. 567,324 is about 8% of 7.1 million. I made a mistake in my calculations.

As to calculating from public data, I can be done -- at least to get a ballpark -- but it is a little harder if you tried to start today than if you started before June 2009. In May 2009 I started recording the total downloads for my 198 photographers at the beginning of each month. At that time the actual number of downloads was listed on the photographer's page on iStock and on istockcharts.multimedia.de. After June 2009 iStock changed the game and is only reporting ranges.

Anyway, now I have an actual beginning number and a range (>75,000 but <76,000) of the ending number. I can't tell the exact number, but when you're looking at people with more than 50,000 downloads even the range provides some interesting trend numbers.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lisafx on July 12, 2010, 15:58
Even without exact data, it sounds reasonable to me that microstock has plateaued.  At least for the moment.  It certainly seems to match the anecdotal data from the few in that higher sales level that have been willing to reveal their sales trends. 

Personally I would much rather see articles written that are realistic (the industry has plateaued) vs. the ones still claiming this is a source of easy money/untold riches. 
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: sharpshot on July 12, 2010, 16:19
Isn't it much harder for people with big portfolios to maintain sales growth each year?  I am sure that applies equally to macro, I remember them mentioning it with alamy.  There are lots of reasons I can think of why that would be the case.  It gets harder to come up with original ideas when you have a big portfolio, motivation can fall when you are already earning a decent amount, some people get bored and move on to do other work.  Buyers aren't going to go through all the images in a big portfolio.  People copy the highest selling images, diluting their earnings.  How do you take out all the other possibilities when you are just looking at the top 5% of portfolios?  There are also the upload limits with istock that hold back earnings for non-exclusives.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on July 12, 2010, 17:40
Isn't it much harder for people with big portfolios to maintain sales growth each year? [...] There are lots of reasons I can think of why that would be the case.  It gets harder to come up with original ideas when you have a big portfolio, motivation can fall when you are already earning a decent amount, some people get bored and move on to do other work.  

Besides these psycological reasons - which are absolutely true - it's also mathematically obvious that it's more and more difficult to keep increasing an already large portfolio at a constant rate.

And there'll be a time when there's simply not enough time - for a photographer - to shoot new photos, being too much occupied in editing / keywording / uploading. With a large portfolio, it's probably more profitable to upload the same photos to one more site than shooting new pictures, but that aint fun in the end. I feel the risk of a personal plateau coming sooner than the industry plateau: not an immediate threat (I'm still having fun) but definitely a possibility.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: alias on July 12, 2010, 18:29
As to calculating from public data, I can be done -- at least to get a ballpark -- but it is a little harder if you tried to start today than if you started before June 2009. In May 2009 I started recording the total downloads for my 198 photographers at the beginning of each month. At that time the actual number of downloads was listed on the photographer's page on iStock and on istockcharts.multimedia.de. After June 2009 iStock changed the game and is only reporting ranges.

I do not believe that you can usefully extrapolate total sales from your 198 (or any other incomplete sample). For starters you are assuming that x% of images = some factor of x% of sales. That seems logical at first sight but there is no way of determining whether this assumption stands up to scrutiny. It's an unknown.

The more contributors (even if they only have one great image) the more they potentially divide everyone's sales. This is part of what people mean when they talk about crowd sourcing contents and the long tale. As more and more people contribute to the total sell individual portfolios become less significant.

When you say that the industry has reached a plateau - well from what perspective ? The actual number of images sold may well still be increasing. Your 198 cannot tell you that. Profits at the companies may be increasing as the model matures. We have no way of knowing. Your 198 cannot tell you that. The amount which photographers get per sale may be increasing. Mine is. Your 198 does not reflect this.

In short - we do not know how many images are being sold and we do not know how profitable the business is.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Pickerell on July 13, 2010, 08:20
Although the data and the statistics quoted are somewhat suspect, to say the least, I think most of us know that microstock will eventually plateau. With supply growing faster than demand it is inevitable.

What we don't know is what will happen next __ and neither does Jim Pickerell. I guess the 'photo factories' may act as early indicators of the marketplace. All those shoots cost money and once they find that the return is declining they'll be less inclined to invest in them. The next 5 years should see a good shakeout of contributors who decide their money and time are better spent elsewhere.

We sure don’t know what till happen next, but I think it useful to gather enough data to try to anticipate what will happen next. Particularly, if you’re going to spend time and money betting that someone will want to buy what you produce. More and more the early adopters seem to be the winners. If you wait until a strategy is proven, it probably no longer makes sense to invest in it. I try to give my readers the data and insight they need to anticipate the next new thing.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Pickerell on July 13, 2010, 08:27
I think it's a bit silly to state that a particular industry has reached its peak while we're in the middle of one of the worst global enconomic recessions in recent history.  Buyers have scaled back their purchases in ALL areas, including microstock.  Yes, large companies and ad agencies have gone from macro to micro to cut costs, but consider the case of small businesses, which have taken the biggest hit during the recession.  They have scaled back to survival levels, cutting marketing and advertising completely, or have gone out of business altogether.  Considering all this, it's shocking that microstock isn't completely in the toilet.

Now think about a global economic recovery, which will happen someday, hopefully soon.  Companies large and small will ramp up their communication efforts very quickly, and as their budgets return, they'll have learned from the lean times to spend it very wisely.  Microstock will be the big beneficiary from this. 

No, microstock has not already reached its plateau.  Tomorrow people will still need images to help their businesses communicate, and they'll want to pay as little as possible for those images.   For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.

Is the decline in sales due to the recession, or other factors? When the economy recovers will the use of images in print recover? I don’t think so. Newspapers and magazines are getting smaller and failing. Direct mail is declining because postage is too expensive and in many cases customers can be better targeted using the Internet. In five to ten years, textbooks (big users of photos) are likely to be a thing of the past as all instruction goes to the Internet, iPads and powerpoint presentation on whiteboards. A surprising number of those images you license are used on some type of printed product. I think were seeing a paradigm shift in the need for printed products that will not recover with the economy.

OK, but the answer of many is “everyone is going to the Internet and that is where microstock is strong.” But, the Internet is a video deliver system. How long will it be before people who want visuals to use on the Internet stop looking for still images and only want video?
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 13, 2010, 08:42
How long will it be before people who want visuals to use on the Internet stop looking for still images and only want video?

Never.  I hate video on the internet.  It's a waste of time.  I prefer imagery and text.  For instance, Leaf did a video here on photoshop shortcuts.  Why would I waste 60 seconds watching it, when a text listing would do?  And skipping through longer videos trying to find the important parts wastes even more time.

Printed imagery will be strong for many years, imo.  This is not the world of Minority Report.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cathyslife on July 13, 2010, 08:46
OK, but the answer of many is “everyone is going to the Internet and that is where microstock is strong.” But, the Internet is a video deliver system. How long will it be before people who want visuals to use on the Internet stop looking for still images and only want video?

Ha! Sean just beat me to it.

Ditto on hating the video on the internet. For some things OK. For most things, takes way too much time to sit and listen and glean whatever information I am trying to get out of the video. I want it in print. A supplemental video for those who have nothing better to do is OK, but I at least want a choice.

Truly busy people trying to make money want to get on the internet, get to the site, get the information they are looking for, and get out and back to business.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Pickerell on July 13, 2010, 09:09

I do not believe that you can usefully extrapolate total sales from your 198 (or any other incomplete sample). For starters you are assuming that x% of images = some factor of x% of sales. That seems logical at first sight but there is no way of determining whether this assumption stands up to scrutiny. It's an unknown.

I'm not assuming x number of images = some x factor of sales. The number of downloads (sales) is listed for each photographer on iStock and on iStockcharts. Fourteen months ago it was an exact number. Today, it is a range (>75,000 but <76,000) so by subtracting the May 2009 number you can get a pretty accurate ballpark.

Only 198 out of 100,000 does seem a terribly small sample until you realize that these 198 represent 8% of the images on the site and 29% of the total downloads in the last 14 months. The person who was 198th on my list when I started collecting data now has over 47,000 total downloads and is 347th on the iStockcharts list. Unfortunately, I don’t have comparative data for all those other 149 in the top 347, but it seems reasonable to assume that the top 347 contributors (lots of them are illustrators, not photographers) are responsible for over half of all iStockphotos total downloads in the last 14 months. Does that tell you anything about other 99,653 contributor’s chances of making sales?

If the only goal of most of the 99,653 are to say, "I'm part of the long tail" then they are achieving that and I'm sure they are all happy. On the other hand, if their goal is to make a profit from their efforts many of them may not be so happy.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Pickerell on July 13, 2010, 09:33
How long will it be before people who want visuals to use on the Internet stop looking for still images and only want video?


Never.  I hate video on the internet.  It's a waste of time.  I prefer imagery and text.  For instance, Leaf did a video here on photoshop shortcuts.  Why would I waste 60 seconds watching it, when a text listing would do?  And skipping through longer videos trying to find the important parts wastes even more time.

Printed imagery will be strong for many years, imo.  This is not the world of Minority Report.


One thing this macro photographer has learned is to Never say Never. Glad to hear you hate video on the Internet. Simon Krzic, leading videographer is probably glad to hear that because that means less competition for him. In about 4 years he has produced 15,000 clips for iStock and 3,500 clips for Getty. Many of the clips that are on iStock Getty would not accept.  At one point 10% of the clips on iStock were his. Now, his ratio is about 5%. Currently, his earnings from iStock are 4 to 5 times what he receives from Getty on a monthly basis, despite the fact when Getty sells a clip it is for a much higher price. It sure looks like the Internet customers want something they can’t find on Getty and that there is “some” Internet demand for video.

You could have read about this at http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=JHP2217. (http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=JHP2217.) If you ever get interested in video you might want to take a look at www.turnhere.com (http://www.turnhere.com) and you can read more about it at http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=JHP2203. (http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=JHP2203.)

Goodby for now. I've got to do some work.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 13, 2010, 09:33
Interesting stats. I knew most contributors didn't do well, but that seems like it's even worse than I thought. I guess the only thing that isn't necessarily factored in is the money. A photo could outsell my vector file 10 to 1 and we'd still make the same money. What is the average photo sale on IS? Did that go up since the exclusive hike or are most of the top contributors not exclusive?
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 13, 2010, 09:54
I didn't say I hated making video, although it isn't my favorite.  I said I hated watching it.  As a consumer sentiment, that shouldn't excite your friend too much.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PeterChigmaroff on July 13, 2010, 10:02
I didn't say I hated making video, although it isn't my favorite.  I said I hated watching it.  As a consumer sentiment, that shouldn't excite your friend too much.
What I've noticed is what I don't like doesn't seem to translate to market reality. I hate movies that look like video and not film, I hate the moving/dancing ads on a browser screen, I hate seeing images sell for a quarter while I pay $4 for a coffee.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 13, 2010, 10:06
This went all Andy Rooney pretty quick. Mark me down for not being a big fan of video over text too. It's just easier to read. Plus, I done learnt how to does it.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: sharpshot on July 13, 2010, 10:07
Perhaps more sites will make us watch short advertising video clips in the future?  More TV is moving to the internet and people might use stock footage to make adverts for that.  I do think it is a growing market.  Can't understand why sites like DT and alamy haven't got in to footage, I am sure they will regret that decision in the future.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cathyslife on July 13, 2010, 10:17
One thing this macro photographer has learned is to Never say Never. Glad to hear you hate video on the Internet. Simon Krzic, leading videographer is probably glad to hear that because that means less competition for him. In about 4 years he has produced 15,000 clips for iStock and 3,500 clips for Getty. Many of the clips that are on iStock Getty would not accept.  At one point 10% of the clips on iStock were his. Now, his ratio is about 5%. Currently, his earnings from iStock are 4 to 5 times what he receives from Getty on a monthly basis, despite the fact when Getty sells a clip it is for a much higher price. It sure looks like the Internet customers want something they can’t find on Getty and that there is “some” Internet demand for video.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the sites buying the videos are successful though.

I was asked to give my opinion on a site that is selling a service whereby you create your own video or slideshow using stock images. The site itself is great, nice design. But the how-to on how to build the videos/slideshows/galleries were buried in videos, there was NO text that I could easily read to understand how to create the product. Plus, I couldn't determine how much it was going to cost. Again, the info might have been buried in a video but I didn't have time to sit and watch all the videos. I can only surmise that there was cost involved because there was a cart icon at the top of the page. I emailed the person with my constructive criticism and have not heard a word back from him.

I just don't see sites based solely on video as being very successful. And yes, I am sure anyone here can post a site that IS successful using videos...my point is that I don't think most sites will be successful this way. Pictures and words...

And one more Andy Rooney point...I really hate when I click on a news story and it goes to a video and I have to sit and watch commercials before I can find out what the story is about! Fortunately they put a little movie icon next to it now so I can surf and find a written story about it.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cdwheatley on July 13, 2010, 10:18
+1 for hating video. If given the chance I will always opt for the text version. Would much rather read an article with a single image than suffer through a lengthy video with 30 sec of unavoidable advertising. Usually I will just pass on the article if there is only a video version available, with the exception being a trainwreck or similar.  Video may well be booming right now, but in a couple of years I bet it will be saturated just like images.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: alias on July 13, 2010, 10:48
@Pickerell, you are basing your assumptions on the idea that sales on the site in general are proportionate to the sales of the artists you are tracking - ie that the site can be measured against the sales of the best selling artists. Though their portfolios are inevitably growing very much slower than the collection in total. Your argument seems to be based on the fact that these artists are market leaders and that their images represent some percentage of the total number of images. Though all of the other images in the collection is a much larger sample.

There is no evidence to support the assumption that the site can be measured against their sales since there may be other factors involved. There may be, for example, another lesser but perhaps larger league of artists coming up behind them who are statistically now more significant but less obvious. Indeed there may be yet another a group even behind them who, en masse, are equally or more significant to the numbers.

This is a subtle mathematical argument I am making. The point is that the top of the market may not be the best place to look for trends. You have no way of knowing.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: WarrenPrice on July 13, 2010, 11:51
Ignorance is Bliss.  Who Cares? 
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: VB inc on July 13, 2010, 13:57
we are evolving into a society with a shorter attention span... the only videos i click on the internet are from trusted sources like friends on facebook... who wants to click through video advertisement if they have to?
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Phil on July 13, 2010, 17:06
re plateau.

I havent read the whole article just the snippet here but it wouldn't surprise to find that overall the industry has reached a plateau.
However it appears that results are only based on Istock, which although having the largest market share has had significant price increases, particularly amongst exclusive contributors (which I would guess?? is a large portion of the 198 people examined). With each price rise a small number of customers are lost.
It has also introduced thinkstock and encouraged its own customers to that site. Considering it is their larger customers that would interested in subscriptions this could be a very significant factor.
Many people here say that sales at istock have been dropping this year (myself included), however I have seen growth on other sites particularly FT, SS etc.
Based on the snippet, I think it could only be said that Istock has reached a plateau (not all microstock). With the changes made it would be interesting to see what their market share has done in relation to the sales.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: FD on July 13, 2010, 17:25
Great.  Just what we need is a couple of "industry leaders" messing it up for the crowd.
That's exactly how microstock started 7 years ago.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cardmaverick on July 13, 2010, 17:38
Having worked as a DP, I can think of many online and non-online uses for stock video. It's an interesting market, there are places like istock where you get canned ham footage in a compressed format thats already locked of as far as colors and contrast are concerned... Then there are the boutiques that are selling .r3d files from Red Ones, and soon Red Epics which can be used for virtually anything from internet use to major motion pictures.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 13, 2010, 17:42
Great.  Just what we need is a couple of "industry leaders" messing it up for the crowd.
That's exactly how microstock started 7 years ago.

Ha!  I wouldn't call Bruce an industry leader of anything at the time.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 13, 2010, 17:45
Having worked as a DP, I can think of many online and non-online uses for stock video. It's an interesting market, there are places like istock where you get canned ham footage in a compressed format thats already locked of as far as colors and contrast are concerned... Then there are the boutiques that are selling .r3d files from Red Ones, and soon Red Epics which can be used for virtually anything from internet use to major motion pictures.

I'm certainly not saying there isn't a market for video.  I'm just saying I think people overestimated the interest of the public a year ago when everyone started spouting "shoot video, shoot video or die!".
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cardmaverick on July 13, 2010, 17:58
Having worked as a DP, I can think of many online and non-online uses for stock video. It's an interesting market, there are places like istock where you get canned ham footage in a compressed format thats already locked of as far as colors and contrast are concerned... Then there are the boutiques that are selling .r3d files from Red Ones, and soon Red Epics which can be used for virtually anything from internet use to major motion pictures.

I'm certainly not saying there isn't a market for video.  I'm just saying I think people overestimated the interest of the public a year ago when everyone started spouting "shoot video, shoot video or die!".

I understand what you mean. I think the big issue for submitters is that they have no real clue about what the market actually demands. Many of these photographers who suddenly try to become video pro's have no real background in the business, so they just flounder.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: red on July 13, 2010, 19:16
I understand what you mean. I think the big issue for submitters is that they have no real clue about what the market actually demands. Many of these photographers who suddenly try to become video pro's have no real background in the business, so they just flounder.

I know that you are talking about video but I believe this can also be said for many new microstockers who read about how easy and lucrative microstock is/can be. The "plateau" may be the small number of serious shooters who are being replaced by the hundreds of dabblers.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on July 13, 2010, 19:35
Regarding video - I agree it will NOT replace photos.

A still image can convey an instant message, while a video requires time; it's not a question of bandwidth - easily solved by advancing technology -, it's a question of time: time is the most valuable commodity nowadays and I don't want to waste seconds of my life watching a video about something I am possibly not interested in.

That said, I am glad video has a market and some are doing well at it.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on July 13, 2010, 19:45
I usually avoid video unless it's something major. Catastrophe, a jackass moment, etc. And even then I'll put up with a commercial that's a few seconds long. If it's longer than a couple seconds I bail. Video has a long way to go before it's kinks are worked out.

Regarding the data, it's interesting but I'm not sure how meaningful it is. Does a slice of one site accurately represent the entire micro segment?
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 14, 2010, 00:54
Although the data and the statistics quoted are somewhat suspect, to say the least, I think most of us know that microstock will eventually plateau. With supply growing faster than demand it is inevitable.

What we don't know is what will happen next __ and neither does Jim Pickerell. I guess the 'photo factories' may act as early indicators of the marketplace. All those shoots cost money and once they find that the return is declining they'll be less inclined to invest in them. The next 5 years should see a good shakeout of contributors who decide their money and time are better spent elsewhere.

Couldnt agree more!   a shakeout of contributors that decide to waste their time elsewhere!  This could in fact be our one and only saviour.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: VB inc on July 14, 2010, 03:18
^^ dont count on less images/contributors in the future unless the agencies actually stop accepting them.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 14, 2010, 05:24
^^ dont count on less images/contributors in the future unless the agencies actually stop accepting them.

No I dont but its really up to the agencies to, like the Getty-RM, realise its getting too much of everything, too much junk and finally do some sort of weed out. I know it sounds harsh but if not, very, very few will earn any money in years to come and the business will decline as in everything.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: gostwyck on July 14, 2010, 05:59
^^ dont count on less images/contributors in the future unless the agencies actually stop accepting them.

I think it might happen. Reviewing is quite an expensive business. For example if SS are accepting 100k new images per week then they might be inspecting 150K in the process. If each image costs them say 10c, including bandwidth, storage, etc then the cost would be about $15K per week or $750K per year. That's quite an investment, particularly if their statistics tell them that 80% of the new images fall on stony ground anyway (which wouldn't surprise me). I think it is inevitable that all established agencies will become ever more selective in who they allow to upload and how much. It has gradually been happening at IS for several years anyway.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: borg on July 14, 2010, 06:34
The law of supply and demand will all clear up with time... ;)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: tdoes on July 14, 2010, 07:32
Video can be effective as a design element (web site masthead) that won't slow the process of recieving the information you seek.

As video banks increase they might become more of a resource for online training material!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 14, 2010, 09:41
While I'd hate to keep money out of someone's pocket, the article is now here for free:
http://rising.blackstar.com/has-demand-for-microstock-photography-peaked.html (http://rising.blackstar.com/has-demand-for-microstock-photography-peaked.html)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: FD on July 14, 2010, 10:21
Video can be effective as a design element (web site masthead) that won't slow the process of recieving the information you seek.
In Europe, I'm charged by volume, and in Asia, I'm limited by bandwidth. Unsolicited self-starting video on a site costs me money and brings down my network. I'm not going to pay for it, that's why I installed the Flashblock add-on in Firefox. Sorry for all those people that think a Flash-website is cool.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: jbarber873 on July 14, 2010, 10:37
   Having been in the stock business as long as Jim Pickerell, I can state with authority that no one has any idea where things are going next in this industry. Selling photographs to people who want to buy photographs changes constantly, and while the rate of change has picked up since the digital camera came out, change has always been there.
   It kills me how many "industry experts" make a living by recycling the conventional wisdom of the moment into a newsletter for sale. I had a partner a while back that subscribed to an "industry expert's" newsletter ( who will go nameless to keep me out of trouble) , and i can tell you he had no insight into the future at all.
   When I saw Yuri Arcurs at the PDN photo show 2 years ago, he was brimming with enthusiasm and energy, as were all the other participants on the panel. The next year, everyone was cranky and complaining about competition, lower RPI and market saturation. These are arguably the most connected participants in the microstock industry, but i would submit that what they have to say can only relate to their own experience.
   Somewhere out there is another turn in the road, and another oppourtunity is opening up. Can anyone see it coming? I sure can't and I'll tell you right now you won't be reading about it from an "industry expert". Like those who jumped into the microstock when it was young, anything new is very hard to spot until it's on top of you. But, to predict that microstock has peaked is besides the point. More images will be bought by more people who need those images and the industry will grow. It may be called something else, but the business of producing images for users of those images has a bright future!
    Even if you only look at the amazing range of talent and energy that the people of this site have contributed to the world of microstock imaging, to say that the industry has peaked says more about the person who is saying it than the industry he's commenting on.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 14, 2010, 10:49
When I saw Yuri Arcurs at the PDN photo show 2 years ago, he was brimming with enthusiasm and energy, as were all the other participants on the panel. The next year, everyone was cranky and complaining about competition, lower RPI and market saturation.

Gee, could the "inspiration" from the previous year, drawing attention to success, increase your competitors desire to take away your sales after that?  Nah.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cathyslife on July 14, 2010, 10:52
   Having been in the stock business as long as Jim Pickerell, I can state with authority that no one has any idea where things are going next in this industry. Selling photographs to people who want to buy photographs changes constantly, and while the rate of change has picked up since the digital camera came out, change has always been there.

I totally agree.

Along with all of the good information that can be found on the internet, there seems to be this "cloud" of information that really isn't information at all. Kind of like you said, it's just people charging other people for the same rehash that everyone else is charging for...and making money from ads on the site that is dispensing the non-information.

I pretty much stumbled into microstock on the advice of a friend...and I consider myself lucky to have gotten in when I did. As long as it lasts I will be happy.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: jbarber873 on July 14, 2010, 11:05
When I saw Yuri Arcurs at the PDN photo show 2 years ago, he was brimming with enthusiasm and energy, as were all the other participants on the panel. The next year, everyone was cranky and complaining about competition, lower RPI and market saturation.

Gee, could the "inspiration" from the previous year, drawing attention to success, increase your competitors desire to take away your sales after that?  Nah.

I'm sure that's true, although i doubt that the 50 or so people who were there were the problem for Yuri and friends. More likely it's the "best selling files" pages that create imitators. Crowd sourcing creates crowd competition- that knife cuts both ways!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 14, 2010, 11:12
I'm sure that's true, although i doubt that the 50 or so people who were there were the problem for Yuri and friends. More likely it's the "best selling files" pages that create imitators. Crowd sourcing creates crowd competition- that knife cuts both ways!

True, but that panel was probably only one of dozens on "how to succeed" or "the state of the industry", etc.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Albert Martin on July 14, 2010, 11:19
198 ports?  doesnt say much at all, had they taken the yop say 1000 ports it would have been much more interesting.

Do you really need to look that far down a list? Elections are usually forecast by asking a very individuals how they voted as they left the stations. The 198 ports represent, according to JP, over a half million of the best images. To me that's a very good sample size, especially off the top. There seems to be a desire to disbelieve any stat or indication that the micro business might be on a plateau. Which of course gives the opportunity for a decline.

right the sample size is certainly significant, but not random .  an even more telling stat is
"Also, in the past 14 months approximately 29% of all the downloads iStock has made were of images belonging to these 198 individuals.
"

so 5% of contribuimages have 29% of sales - thus confirming sturgeon's law that " 90% of anything is crap"

Well... My opinion is that ALL is crap - but there is rising market for that crap and that is all what matters...

;-)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 14, 2010, 11:31
   Having been in the stock business as long as Jim Pickerell, I can state with authority that no one has any idea where things are going next in this industry. Selling photographs to people who want to buy photographs changes constantly, and while the rate of change has picked up since the digital camera came out, change has always been there.
   It kills me how many "industry experts" make a living by recycling the conventional wisdom of the moment into a newsletter for sale. I had a partner a while back that subscribed to an "industry expert's" newsletter ( who will go nameless to keep me out of trouble) , and i can tell you he had no insight into the future at all.
   When I saw Yuri Arcurs at the PDN photo show 2 years ago, he was brimming with enthusiasm and energy, as were all the other participants on the panel. The next year, everyone was cranky and complaining about competition, lower RPI and market saturation. These are arguably the most connected participants in the microstock industry, but i would submit that what they have to say can only relate to their own experience.
   Somewhere out there is another turn in the road, and another oppourtunity is opening up. Can anyone see it coming? I sure can't and I'll tell you right now you won't be reading about it from an "industry expert". Like those who jumped into the microstock when it was young, anything new is very hard to spot until it's on top of you. But, to predict that microstock has peaked is besides the point. More images will be bought by more people who need those images and the industry will grow. It may be called something else, but the business of producing images for users of those images has a bright future!
    Even if you only look at the amazing range of talent and energy that the people of this site have contributed to the world of microstock imaging, to say that the industry has peaked says more about the person who is saying it than the industry he's commenting on.

Must say, you sound very optimistic indeed or perhaps afraid it has reached a plateau?  Im not, Ive also been in the stock-business for over 20 years, seen very good agencies bite the dust, in fact the entire RM industry has been in a decline for the past 3 years and there is absoloutely nothing in this world that says Micro wont go the same way.
We are all wishfull thinkers though, arent we?
Many say people will always buy crap?  thats a pis poor thought if any.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PowerDroid on July 14, 2010, 12:44
Must say, you sound very optimistic indeed or perhaps afraid it has reached a plateau?  Im not, Ive also been in the stock-business for over 20 years, seen very good agencies bite the dust, in fact the entire RM industry has been in a decline for the past 3 years and there is absoloutely nothing in this world that says Micro wont go the same way.
We are all wishfull thinkers though, arent we?

I think you're missing the point.  He said he expects there are changes coming but that people will always need images.  Do you think we'll revert to a text-based world and suddenly the billions of attention-span-challenged people will prefer to read information instead of taking it in visually?  Of course not.  Then you have to believe that the demand for images will only increase.  Next, do you think buyers will pay high prices for those images?  No, price pressure will only grow, making microstock or something like it the most viable business model for supplying low-priced images for some time.  Yes, microstock could and maybe will be replaced by another model (free downloads with contributors paid via advertising, or some other variation of the free model that compensates contributors), but if you think there's no future for image-producers, then you have your head in the sand and the industry will pass you by.
 
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Xalanx on July 14, 2010, 14:09
Somewhere out there is another turn in the road, and another oppourtunity is opening up. Can anyone see it coming? I sure can't and I'll tell you right now you won't be reading about it from an "industry expert".

I thoroughly agree with this. Nobody can really predict anything. However its funny how since 2-3 years (my "age" in this business) the subject "oh man, the end is near!!" is constantly brought up on the table on every stock board.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 14, 2010, 14:14
I thoroughly agree with this. Nobody can really predict anything. However its funny how since 2-3 years (my "age" in this business) the subject "oh man, the end is near!!" is constantly brought up on the table on every stock board.

I can't claim to have been in this industry for as many years as others, but I think the only thing that doesn't change is that someone is always going to be saying that this or that will destroy the industry.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 14, 2010, 16:19
Must say, you sound very optimistic indeed or perhaps afraid it has reached a plateau?  Im not, Ive also been in the stock-business for over 20 years, seen very good agencies bite the dust, in fact the entire RM industry has been in a decline for the past 3 years and there is absoloutely nothing in this world that says Micro wont go the same way.
We are all wishfull thinkers though, arent we?

I think you're missing the point.  He said he expects there are changes coming but that people will always need images.  Do you think we'll revert to a text-based world and suddenly the billions of attention-span-challenged people will prefer to read information instead of taking it in visually?  Of course not.  Then you have to believe that the demand for images will only increase.  Next, do you think buyers will pay high prices for those images?  No, price pressure will only grow, making microstock or something like it the most viable business model for supplying low-priced images for some time.  Yes, microstock could and maybe will be replaced by another model (free downloads with contributors paid via advertising, or some other variation of the free model that compensates contributors), but if you think there's no future for image-producers, then you have your head in the sand and the industry will pass you by.
 

Youre missing the point, nobody said it wont be a demand for image-makers, what I said or rather meant was: it will not and cant remain as it is and will probably be replaced by another model. There will always be a demand for pictures, sure! were not questioning that, another issue here.
The issue here is the Micro model, the concept and if you think this present model will remain for another 10 years, well then Im afraid youve got youre head in the sand and pretty much deeper then mine. sorry.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: gostwyck on July 14, 2010, 16:50
The issue here is the Micro model, the concept and if you think this present model will remain for another 10 years, well then Im afraid youve got youre head in the sand and pretty much deeper then mine. sorry.

Powerdroid still thinks his newbie graphs will continue going upwards forever. Let him enjoy the fantasy for now __ he'll learn soon enough!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: jbarber873 on July 14, 2010, 19:23
Must say, you sound very optimistic indeed or perhaps afraid it has reached a plateau?  Im not, Ive also been in the stock-business for over 20 years, seen very good agencies bite the dust, in fact the entire RM industry has been in a decline for the past 3 years and there is absoloutely nothing in this world that says Micro wont go the same way.
We are all wishfull thinkers though, arent we?

I think you're missing the point.  He said he expects there are changes coming but that people will always need images.  Do you think we'll revert to a text-based world and suddenly the billions of attention-span-challenged people will prefer to read information instead of taking it in visually?  Of course not.  Then you have to believe that the demand for images will only increase.  Next, do you think buyers will pay high prices for those images?  No, price pressure will only grow, making microstock or something like it the most viable business model for supplying low-priced images for some time.  Yes, microstock could and maybe will be replaced by another model (free downloads with contributors paid via advertising, or some other variation of the free model that compensates contributors), but if you think there's no future for image-producers, then you have your head in the sand and the industry will pass you by.
 

Youre missing the point, nobody said it wont be a demand for image-makers, what I said or rather meant was: it will not and cant remain as it is and will probably be replaced by another model. There will always be a demand for pictures, sure! were not questioning that, another issue here.
The issue here is the Micro model, the concept and if you think this present model will remain for another 10 years, well then Im afraid youve got youre head in the sand and pretty much deeper then mine. sorry.

    There's the glass half full and the glass half empty point of view. I prefer to look ahead to all the great new stuff happening ahead. If the micro model dies a slow death, well, that's fine, because i know that there will still be a demand for good images. The digital revolution opened many more new paths than it closed. Microstock photographers proved that image creation, and creativity, did not have to belong to a select group of photographers in the major cities with access to labs that could process 8x10 film in 1 hour and located next to model agencies and prop rental houses. That was too bad for those photographers ( i was one of them), but it changed the world for the better. Go back and look at some of the magazines from the 70's, and tell me that the quality was better than the microstock competition today. It wasn't!
Okay, i get paid far less than i did back then. But the overhead that existed back then was crazy- $50,000 a year for rent, $40,000 a year for film and processing, the same amount for assistants, then messengers, insurance, promotion, and when you got the job you paid 25% to the rep who got you the job. Spend 3 weeks without a job and you were out of business. Today, every one of those expenses is gone. Instead, you have to pay the website to sell your images. Well, to me, they are welcome to it.
   The rights managed business came out of an era when to sell a stock image you had to publish a 300 page catalog and send out 10,000 copies for FREE, and do this 3 times a year. You had to duplicate every image at a cost of $5 a dupe just to have images to send out on approval. The rights managed era died because the delivery mechanism changed.
    All I am really trying to say is, if you feel that you are a good photographer ( or artist), then don't worry about where the future will be. Just try to be the best at whatever you do, and that quality will be recognized. I'm living proof that you can survive change, if you embrace change as the oppourtunity it is.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Kone on July 14, 2010, 21:03
There's the glass half full and the glass half empty point of view. I prefer to look ahead to all the great new stuff happening ahead. If the micro model dies a slow death, well, that's fine, because i know that there will still be a demand for good images. The digital revolution opened many more new paths than it closed. Microstock photographers proved that image creation, and creativity, did not have to belong to a select group of photographers in the major cities with access to labs that could process 8x10 film in 1 hour and located next to model agencies and prop rental houses. That was too bad for those photographers ( i was one of them), but it changed the world for the better. Go back and look at some of the magazines from the 70's, and tell me that the quality was better than the microstock competition today. It wasn't!
Okay, i get paid far less than i did back then. But the overhead that existed back then was crazy- $50,000 a year for rent, $40,000 a year for film and processing, the same amount for assistants, then messengers, insurance, promotion, and when you got the job you paid 25% to the rep who got you the job. Spend 3 weeks without a job and you were out of business. Today, every one of those expenses is gone. Instead, you have to pay the website to sell your images. Well, to me, they are welcome to it.
   The rights managed business came out of an era when to sell a stock image you had to publish a 300 page catalog and send out 10,000 copies for FREE, and do this 3 times a year. You had to duplicate every image at a cost of $5 a dupe just to have images to send out on approval. The rights managed era died because the delivery mechanism changed.
    All I am really trying to say is, if you feel that you are a good photographer ( or artist), then don't worry about where the future will be. Just try to be the best at whatever you do, and that quality will be recognized. I'm living proof that you can survive change, if you embrace change as the oppourtunity it is.

It is about time somebody finally said it.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PowerDroid on July 14, 2010, 21:07
The issue here is the Micro model, the concept and if you think this present model will remain for another 10 years, well then Im afraid youve got youre head in the sand and pretty much deeper then mine. sorry.

Powerdroid still thinks his newbie graphs will continue going upwards forever. Let him enjoy the fantasy for now __ he'll learn soon enough!

Do I think my newbie graphs will continue going upwards forever?  I have no idea.  I just know that they've shown pretty consistent growth (not astronomical, but steady increases) for nearly two years.  But you're right... if this "fantasy" ends, I will learn, as you said.  I will learn that if my efforts stop paying off, it will be time to turn my energies to another endeavor that will, rather than plugging away at a standstill.  You can bet I will learn and move on.  But until then, I'm enjoying the fantasy -- creatively and financially.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: vonkara on July 14, 2010, 21:13
Plus one post yee (Deleted)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 15, 2010, 05:23
There's the glass half full and the glass half empty point of view. I prefer to look ahead to all the great new stuff happening ahead. If the micro model dies a slow death, well, that's fine, because i know that there will still be a demand for good images. The digital revolution opened many more new paths than it closed. Microstock photographers proved that image creation, and creativity, did not have to belong to a select group of photographers in the major cities with access to labs that could process 8x10 film in 1 hour and located next to model agencies and prop rental houses. That was too bad for those photographers ( i was one of them), but it changed the world for the better. Go back and look at some of the magazines from the 70's, and tell me that the quality was better than the microstock competition today. It wasn't!
Okay, i get paid far less than i did back then. But the overhead that existed back then was crazy- $50,000 a year for rent, $40,000 a year for film and processing, the same amount for assistants, then messengers, insurance, promotion, and when you got the job you paid 25% to the rep who got you the job. Spend 3 weeks without a job and you were out of business. Today, every one of those expenses is gone. Instead, you have to pay the website to sell your images. Well, to me, they are welcome to it.
   The rights managed business came out of an era when to sell a stock image you had to publish a 300 page catalog and send out 10,000 copies for FREE, and do this 3 times a year. You had to duplicate every image at a cost of $5 a dupe just to have images to send out on approval. The rights managed era died because the delivery mechanism changed.
    All I am really trying to say is, if you feel that you are a good photographer ( or artist), then don't worry about where the future will be. Just try to be the best at whatever you do, and that quality will be recognized. I'm living proof that you can survive change, if you embrace change as the oppourtunity it is.

It is about time somebody finally said it.

Said what??????? something we didnt know? something which hasnt been said over a million times?  beats me!

best.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PowerDroid on July 15, 2010, 05:50
There's the glass half full and the glass half empty point of view. I prefer to look ahead to all the great new stuff happening ahead. If the micro model dies a slow death, well, that's fine, because i know that there will still be a demand for good images. The digital revolution opened many more new paths than it closed. Microstock photographers proved that image creation, and creativity, did not have to belong to a select group of photographers in the major cities with access to labs that could process 8x10 film in 1 hour and located next to model agencies and prop rental houses. That was too bad for those photographers ( i was one of them), but it changed the world for the better. Go back and look at some of the magazines from the 70's, and tell me that the quality was better than the microstock competition today. It wasn't!
Okay, i get paid far less than i did back then. But the overhead that existed back then was crazy- $50,000 a year for rent, $40,000 a year for film and processing, the same amount for assistants, then messengers, insurance, promotion, and when you got the job you paid 25% to the rep who got you the job. Spend 3 weeks without a job and you were out of business. Today, every one of those expenses is gone. Instead, you have to pay the website to sell your images. Well, to me, they are welcome to it.
   The rights managed business came out of an era when to sell a stock image you had to publish a 300 page catalog and send out 10,000 copies for FREE, and do this 3 times a year. You had to duplicate every image at a cost of $5 a dupe just to have images to send out on approval. The rights managed era died because the delivery mechanism changed.
    All I am really trying to say is, if you feel that you are a good photographer ( or artist), then don't worry about where the future will be. Just try to be the best at whatever you do, and that quality will be recognized. I'm living proof that you can survive change, if you embrace change as the oppourtunity it is.

It is about time somebody finally said it.

Said what??????? something we didnt know? something which hasnt been said over a million times?  beats me!

best.

Great post, jbarber873.

I just find it funny (or sad) that so many here are so beaten down and angry that they feel they have to squash every note of optimism that sprouts up.  If it's from a relative newcomer like me they'll say "enjoy your little fantasy world while it lasts" and predict doom, or if it's from a seasoned pro like jbarber873, they'll dismiss it as worthless ramblings.

It's clear that certain people are doing well and want to tell everyone that the sky is falling to scare off new competition.  And it's clear that others believe the negativity they're spewing... microstock isn't working for them anymore and they're hell-bent on trash-talking it forever (so why do they spend so much time on it, particularly in a forum focused on something they clearly hate?)

I used to feel I got a lot out of participating in this forum -- good information and inspiration.  But now it's just depressing.  This is the last you'll be hearing from me. 

To all those who are here because you see a brighter future and wish to learn, best of luck, and don't let the complainers get you down.

To those who wish to squash the dreams of others so you can keep the downloads for yourself, shame on you.

And to those with the giant chips on your shoulders who do nothing but spread your poisonous negativity, find something productive to do with your time.

Power Droid out.  Good bye.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: loop on July 15, 2010, 06:09
Must say, you sound very optimistic indeed or perhaps afraid it has reached a plateau?  Im not, Ive also been in the stock-business for over 20 years, seen very good agencies bite the dust, in fact the entire RM industry has been in a decline for the past 3 years and there is absoloutely nothing in this world that says Micro wont go the same way.
We are all wishfull thinkers though, arent we?

I think you're missing the point.  He said he expects there are changes coming but that people will always need images.  Do you think we'll revert to a text-based world and suddenly the billions of attention-span-challenged people will prefer to read information instead of taking it in visually?  Of course not.  Then you have to believe that the demand for images will only increase.  Next, do you think buyers will pay high prices for those images?  No, price pressure will only grow, making microstock or something like it the most viable business model for supplying low-priced images for some time.  Yes, microstock could and maybe will be replaced by another model (free downloads with contributors paid via advertising, or some other variation of the free model that compensates contributors), but if you think there's no future for image-producers, then you have your head in the sand and the industry will pass you by.
 

Youre missing the point, nobody said it wont be a demand for image-makers, what I said or rather meant was: it will not and cant remain as it is and will probably be replaced by another model. There will always be a demand for pictures, sure! were not questioning that, another issue here.
The issue here is the Micro model, the concept and if you think this present model will remain for another 10 years, well then Im afraid youve got youre head in the sand and pretty much deeper then mine. sorry.

Yes, it will. I accept bets.

(Another think is how profitable it will be)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Kone on July 15, 2010, 07:43
Okay, i get paid far less than i did back then. But the overhead that existed back then was crazy- $50,000 a year for rent, $40,000 a year for film and processing, the same amount for assistants, then messengers, insurance, promotion, and when you got the job you paid 25% to the rep who got you the job. Spend 3 weeks without a job and you were out of business. Today, every one of those expenses is gone. Instead, you have to pay the website to sell your images. Well, to me, they are welcome to it.
   The rights managed business came out of an era when to sell a stock image you had to publish a 300 page catalog and send out 10,000 copies for FREE, and do this 3 times a year. You had to duplicate every image at a cost of $5 a dupe just to have images to send out on approval. The rights managed era died because the delivery mechanism changed.
    All I am really trying to say is, if you feel that you are a good photographer ( or artist), then don't worry about where the future will be. Just try to be the best at whatever you do, and that quality will be recognized. I'm living proof that you can survive change, if you embrace change as the oppourtunity it is.

It is about time somebody finally said it.

Said what??????? something we didnt know? something which hasnt been said over a million times?  beats me!

best.

He is the first one, that I red, who admit that Microstock is good as traditional stock.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lisafx on July 15, 2010, 09:49

To those who wish to squash the dreams of others so you can keep the downloads for yourself, shame on you. To those who wish to stem the overwhelming flood of competition so you can continue to support your families - shame on you.

And to those with the giant chips on your shoulders who do nothing but spread your poisonous negativity, find something productive to do with your time.  And to those who have more than two years experience and are willing to share it with the rest of the group, rather than just being cheerleaders and polyannas - stop raining on my parade.

Power Droid out.  Good bye.  Cmon - you know you don't mean this...

My translations above in red...
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 15, 2010, 10:04
Ha!  Yeah, exactly.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: gostwyck on July 15, 2010, 10:09

And to those with the giant chips on your shoulders who do nothing but spread your poisonous negativity, find something productive to do with your time.  And to those who have more than two years experience and are willing to share it with the rest of the group, rather than just being cheerleaders and polyannas - stop raining on my parade.


Exactly! I don't have any chips on my shoulders ('giant' or otherwise), quite the reverse. I do however have nearly 6 years of experience of microstock and thereby the data to put current sales numbers into perspective.

I'm staggered that sharing information (which is what this forum is all about isn't it?) causes some poor newbie to run away crying about how horrid we all are. Their problem, not ours.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cathyslife on July 15, 2010, 11:16
(edited down)I used to feel I got a lot out of participating in this forum -- good information and inspiration.  But now it's just depressing.  This is the last you'll be hearing from me.

That's what they all say.

Sometimes the negativity here gets me down too and I just leave for a while. But there's no point in saying I won't be back, because there is too much good information on this site not to come back.

And it's depressing here because it's depressing everywhere in the business world! I've been unemployed for a year! That is totally freakin depressing! It's reality.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 15, 2010, 11:40
I just assumed ALL photographers were grouchy. Something to do with radiation from cameras or something.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Kone on July 15, 2010, 11:49
Sometimes the negativity here gets me down too and I just leave for a while. But there's no point in saying I won't be back, because there is too much good information on this site not to come back.

Yeah, I do the same.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lagereek on July 15, 2010, 13:39

To those who wish to squash the dreams of others so you can keep the downloads for yourself, shame on you. To those who wish to stem the overwhelming flood of competition so you can continue to support your families - shame on you.

And to those with the giant chips on your shoulders who do nothing but spread your poisonous negativity, find something productive to do with your time.  And to those who have more than two years experience and are willing to share it with the rest of the group, rather than just being cheerleaders and polyannas - stop raining on my parade.

Power Droid out.  Good bye.  Cmon - you know you don't mean this...

My translations above in red...

Ha, ha,  bloody great reply!!  its funny, some people rather have a good lie then an ugly truth,  living in some sort of a promised land. What I dont get is that many seem to believe that the Micro will remain unchanged for a further 10 years, making it 20 years unchanged.
This means that the Micro will be the only business model in the entire world, throughout history remaining the same, which then wouldnt say very much for the concept anyway.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: jbarber873 on July 16, 2010, 08:21

To those who wish to squash the dreams of others so you can keep the downloads for yourself, shame on you. To those who wish to stem the overwhelming flood of competition so you can continue to support your families - shame on you.

And to those with the giant chips on your shoulders who do nothing but spread your poisonous negativity, find something productive to do with your time.  And to those who have more than two years experience and are willing to share it with the rest of the group, rather than just being cheerleaders and polyannas - stop raining on my parade.

Power Droid out.  Good bye.  Cmon - you know you don't mean this...

My translations above in red...

Ha, ha,  bloody great reply!!  its funny, some people rather have a good lie then an ugly truth,  living in some sort of a promised land. What I dont get is that many seem to believe that the Micro will remain unchanged for a further 10 years, making it 20 years unchanged.
This means that the Micro will be the only business model in the entire world, throughout history remaining the same, which then wouldnt say very much for the concept anyway.

    Well, I guess you could say I'm optimistic. But "Pollyanna"? Ouch!
Am I the one raining on the parade? I hope not- I'm a little confused by that, but it's not my intention.
As for being accused of lying, well that's not true. I never said that microstock will remain unchanged for 10 years. I said change is constant, and I said that change represents an oppourtunity. But maybe you didn't mean me- this is all getting a little confusing.
   My feeling is that if you are optimistic, and work as hard or harder than everyone else, there is always a place to make money in stock photography. The simple fact is that there are plenty of buyers for good photography. If that's been said a million times, well maybe it still hasn't sunk in.
   All my life, people have been telling me that it's over for photography. When i was a freshman in college at RIT in 1972 (!), the upperclassman all told us we would be driving trucks for a living. When i came to NYC to be an assistant, everyone said the business was dying, and you should have been here last year. McCann-Erickson had a very well respected "guru" on staff who always predicted doom for the next year.
   If you feel bad about this business, then by all means bail out. It won't help me, but maybe it will give a chance to someone young and energetic, who isn't beaten down by life, and just wants to make some great images. Even if this isn't as good a business as it used to be, it's still a great way to live your life, and I would still encourage those who love it to keep at it.
  So maybe I am Pollyanna. But I'll tell you this- the whole microstock world is a great and unique event, and I am happy to be a part of it.
And finally, in response to an earlier post, I do indeed think that a great deal of the work here exceeds the quality of traditional stock. There have always been gate keepers, and gate smashers. Be a gate smasher- it's more fun.
   And Powerdroid- come back! I love your posts. I'll shut up and sit on the sidelines- I promise!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: PixelsAway on July 16, 2010, 10:21
Thanks for your posts Powerdroid and jbarber873. I prefer to stay optimistic about microstock.

My own "newbie graphs" shows that the growth of my microstock earnings is slowing down, perhaps, approaching plateau. However, I can still predict my microstock earnings up to several (6?) months ahead. There are month to month variations but quarterly numbers look pretty smooth. It is an interesting challenge.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: cthoman on July 16, 2010, 11:52
I don't think he was talking about you jbarber. I think there has been a lot of optimism bashing here lately. The thought that optimism was somehow akin to foolishness or naivety seems to have been in a lot of threads. I'm not sure I agree, but like others said when it gets too negative here, I just stop reading for a while. Besides, football season is coming up soon, then I'll have a whole new distraction.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: Perry on July 16, 2010, 12:01
If someone has done microstock for years (let's say for 4 years or more), it's just really hard to remain optimistic, everything just seem to go downhill. And it's also summer slowdown.

To be honest, if someone wanted to start microstock photography right now, I would say "don't bother". Partly to protect my own earnings and partly just to get them to do something else than wasting their time.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: jbarber873 on July 16, 2010, 12:08
I don't think he was talking about you jbarber. I think there has been a lot of optimism bashing here lately. The thought that optimism was somehow akin to foolishness or naivety seems to have been in a lot of threads. I'm not sure I agree, but like others said when it gets too negative here, I just stop reading for a while. Besides, football season is coming up soon, then I'll have a whole new distraction.

Football season- talk about optimism quickly dashed!
Anyway, thanks for the reply. I think your right. Like I said, it gets confusing following the threads.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: joingated on July 16, 2010, 13:34
Yeah powerdroid come back you are the positive voice of the newbies! As vociferously positive as those that are so negative. We need the balance! Hey my graphs are still climbing steeply after 2 years too! I just stop coming here when it's too much doom and gloom and then come back now and again to check everything out. Sometimes the negative stuff makes me laugh out loud, much is Tongue in cheek. ; )
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: RacePhoto on July 21, 2010, 17:00
I just assumed ALL photographers were grouchy. Something to do with radiation from cameras or something.

I'd blame it on the chemicals and fumes, but we don't use that anymore.  ;D

The glass is 3/4th full and room for growth, just not the same rate that there was a few years back.

Plateau is a good way to put it. Leveling off, stabilizing whatever else, that's what's happening. Competition is greater from the agency side to the artists supply. Nothing has unlimited growth potential at a high rate forever. Expect some more agencies to be closing as the ones making a profit continue and those struggling find it necessary to close shop.

Example:  SHUTTERSTOCK STATS: 12,074,645 royalty-free stock photos / 81,787 new stock photos added this week / 240,364 photographers.

81,000 new photos a week, the competition is greater for each individual sale. The cameras are better, the contributors are smarter.
12 million pictures to choose from, and a potential of growing at 4 million a year!
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: VB inc on July 21, 2010, 18:53
i for one enjoy powerdroids posts so it would be a shame if you didnt post here anymore.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: ellenboughn on August 10, 2010, 09:06
For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.
Bingo. Ellen Boughn had some slips of the tongue a while ago, and also Arcurs. There is something being cooked, and one of the most prominent artists here made a slip of the tongue too. All those people were in Dublin and they apparently conspired there about that new "free" business model. It seems to be covered by an NDA, but we will know soon enough, I've been told in private.
Sorry to disappoint but if there was some new 'free' model being discussed behind closed doors and under an NDA in Dublin...the people involved didn't invite me! But since I'm a busy body, I probably would have heard about it and I didn't. So not to worry. Most of the talk was about how to raise prices, not free.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: ellenboughn on August 10, 2010, 09:06
For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.
Bingo. Ellen Boughn had some slips of the tongue a while ago, and also Arcurs. There is something being cooked, and one of the most prominent artists here made a slip of the tongue too. All those people were in Dublin and they apparently conspired there about that new "free" business model. It seems to be covered by an NDA, but we will know soon enough, I've been told in private.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on August 10, 2010, 09:20
conspirations in Dublin? NDA? too many pints of Guinness, possibly

however, any alternative to microstock - free or not free - will have to generate revenue, otherwise no one will seriously follow it
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: FD on August 10, 2010, 09:45
Sorry to disappoint but if there was some new 'free' model being discussed behind closed doors and under an NDA in Dublin...the people involved didn't invite me! But since I'm a busy body, I probably would have heard about it and I didn't. So not to worry. Most of the talk was about how to raise prices, not free.
Glad to hear. Well I heard about an NDA but not in public. Raising prices will be as difficult as putting the ghost back in the bottle. The amateurs will never give up producing stock under the cost level.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: donding on August 10, 2010, 11:07
As many get rich quick with microstock sites out there, this will always recruit new photographers. I know when I got into stock photography in 2006, I knew I wasn't going to be making a living at it. I don't fall for those get quick rich schemes. I do remember when I got the second rejection from Shutterstock I told myself it would be an insult to sell my shots for .25 and wondered why I was even bothering to try to get in there. I waited quite awhile and always saw the ads for Shutterstock and really wasn't planning to do it, but I tried one more time...got through...and glad I did because I make more money on there than any of the other Big 4.

Now for the newbies just now trying to get in I think the quality of the shots have been put at a very high level and a lot of those newbies give up. As for the ones who are already there, they are getting discouraged because of the slump in sales and have slacked off on there uploads. I know I have and many of you here have also. I think with the expected increase in quality, approvals have slowed down which may be why the increase in the iStock upload limit. So maybe once this is back to normal only the tough will stay and reap the benefits. We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: lisafx on August 10, 2010, 12:27

Sorry to disappoint but if there was some new 'free' model being discussed behind closed doors and under an NDA in Dublin...the people involved didn't invite me! But since I'm a busy body, I probably would have heard about it and I didn't. So not to worry. Most of the talk was about how to raise prices, not free.

Very good to hear!  Thanks for clearing that up, Ellen.  With your industry knowledge, your word carries a lot of weight - even when they aren't really your words! ;)
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: rubyroo on August 10, 2010, 12:39
Yes!  Thanks Ellen - I've been worrying about that ever since I first read it.  It was starting to feel as though all but a reserved elite were going to be shoved out of the picture.  So glad to hear that's not the case.  :)   
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: gbalex on September 12, 2010, 19:20
For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.

Bingo. Ellen Boughn had some slips of the tongue a while ago, and also Arcurs. There is something being cooked, and one of the most prominent artists here made a slip of the tongue too. All those people were in Dublin and they apparently conspired there about that new "free" business model. It seems to be covered by an NDA, but we will know soon enough, I've been told in private.


http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/yuri-admits-his-losing-money-!/msg138005/#msg138005 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/yuri-admits-his-losing-money-!/msg138005/#msg138005)

I have one word for all those worried about competition, people writing books to encourage others to enter the business and other somewhat irrational fears that the marketplace will decide that microstock will cease to make money. If you really want to have something to worry about, consider the following. It isn't smart business people like Yuri or newbies or more amateurs or more pros entering microstock it's: Flickr

PS "Free" actually will have excellent financial rewards to market leaders in the future and it won't have anything to do with selling ancillary products or links. I predict that it will drive all models from RM to micro. I'm not prepared to reveal what that might be as it is in its infancy and not worth getting all riled up about. And NO I won't be making money because of it or promoting it or anything.
Title: Re: Microstock has reached a plateau...
Post by: RacePhoto on September 13, 2010, 13:11
I must have been a cat in a past life, because you have me completely confused now.

If there was a meeting in Dublin discussing "free" images, with a NDA but it really wasn't about "free" images, so don't worry. It was about raising prices.

So this whole scary thread about free images is about something that never existed? :D



For the forseeable future, until another business model emerges that makes sense to contributors (free? that's an argument for another thread) microstock will prosper, and will become much larger than it is today.
Bingo. Ellen Boughn had some slips of the tongue a while ago, and also Arcurs. There is something being cooked, and one of the most prominent artists here made a slip of the tongue too. All those people were in Dublin and they apparently conspired there about that new "free" business model. It seems to be covered by an NDA, but we will know soon enough, I've been told in private.
Sorry to disappoint but if there was some new 'free' model being discussed behind closed doors and under an NDA in Dublin...the people involved didn't invite me! But since I'm a busy body, I probably would have heard about it and I didn't. So not to worry. Most of the talk was about how to raise prices, not free.