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Author Topic: Hiring a full time keyworder slave ?  (Read 12117 times)

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antistock

« on: December 22, 2011, 11:14 »
0
So, it seems most of the offshore keywording companies ask around 0.4$ per image for keywording + captioning, (some even include uploading).

My idea instead would be something like this :

1 - I shoot xxx photos every month
2 - I edit all the pics with PS or LR
3 - I burn the final pics on a DVD or USB key
4 - I ship the dvd/usb via UPS to my keyword monkey in india or whatever.
5 - My keyword monkey has a contract with me to keyword and upload all the pics he receives from me
6 - profit ! :)


now, a few questions :

1 - Where can i hire someone fluent enough in english, experienced with photo agencies and stock images and of course talented in keywording, able to FTP etc etc all by himself without any baby sitting ?

2 - How much could be a decent salary for him ?



I had a look at many jobs sites, even freelancing ones like Guru or Elance but so far found nothing...
Basically, the deal would be to get an average cost of 0.2$ per image for keywording/captioning/uploading.
I could guarantee around 500 pics a month that means 100 bucks a month, not much but a nice addon in places like India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Indonesia, Philippines...

Any ideas ? Any similar experience ?


« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 11:18 »
0
I've been through this exact process, though I do it a bit differently. $.2/image is going to be hard to find, especially if you expect them to upload. You can post the job on Elance and see what responded you get - this is how I connected with the individuals I use.

« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 12:02 »
0
broadband internet in those countries ain't cheap too

« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 12:36 »
0
Remember to factor in the loss of sales from sloppy keywording. The 10% or 20% or whatever you lose from that should be added to your costs when calculating your "profit"

« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 14:57 »
0
and you might have better luck finding someone if you eliminate the words 'slave' and 'monkey'

grp_photo

« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 15:09 »
0
and you might have better luck finding someone if you eliminate the words 'slave' and 'monkey'
exactly my thoughts

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 15:12 »
0
5 - My keyword monkey has a contract with me to keyword and upload all the pics he receives from me


Wow, even monkeys are doing stock now? I wonder if I can get one to take pictures for me.

« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 15:15 »
0
from the 500 how many have different "keywords"? are they all different? honestly do it yourself unless you have a keyworder that is next to you like a few meters and you can check and trust.. keywording is very time consuming but at least you will be confident

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 19:08 »
0
Well, if you're looking for help based in the United States with 12 years of retouching experience and 5 years working in microstock for photographers who can to help you focus on shooting by handling retouching, keywords, titles, descriptions, uploading and submissions, know of an outfit that can help you. But if you're not high volume (100 new images a week), it may not be worth hiring out.

If you want a slave, there's plenty out there. But you get what you pay for.  ::)

Send me a direct message.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 19:16 by TheBlackRhino »

« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 02:22 »
0
You can check out http://www.picworkflow.com for keywording.

http://www.jaincotech.com does editing and keywording, or just keywording if you want
http://www.keyindiagraphics.com does editing and keywording as well and have a 15% discount for microstockgroup members (discount code: MStockGroup)

You won't find any monkeys or slaves there though, and like others have mentioned, you might do well to drop those terms, even if it was meant to be humor.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 02:24 by leaf »

« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 06:15 »
0
[...] You won't find any monkeys or slaves there though, and like others have mentioned, you might do well to drop those terms, even if it was meant to be humor.
ditto

« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 06:45 »
0
[...] You won't find any monkeys or slaves there though, and like others have mentioned, you might do well to drop those terms, even if it was meant to be humor.
ditto

+2

« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 09:48 »
0
So, it seems most of the offshore keywording companies ask around 0.4$ per image for keywording + captioning, (some even include uploading).

My idea instead would be something like this :

1 - I shoot xxx photos every month
2 - I edit all the pics with PS or LR
3 - I burn the final pics on a DVD or USB key
4 - I ship the dvd/usb via UPS to my keyword monkey in india or whatever.
5 - My keyword monkey has a contract with me to keyword and upload all the pics he receives from me
6 - profit ! :)


now, a few questions :

1 - Where can i hire someone fluent enough in english, experienced with photo agencies and stock images and of course talented in keywording, able to FTP etc etc all by himself without any baby sitting ?

2 - How much could be a decent salary for him ?



I had a look at many jobs sites, even freelancing ones like Guru or Elance but so far found nothing...
Basically, the deal would be to get an average cost of 0.2$ per image for keywording/captioning/uploading.
I could guarantee around 500 pics a month that means 100 bucks a month, not much but a nice addon in places like India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Indonesia, Philippines...

Any ideas ? Any similar experience ?

You do realise you are a slave yourself, right?

You do all the shooting, keywording and uploading for peanuts, while agencies earn millions of dollars for doing nothing..

I agree with others.. slave!... monkey!... not funny!..

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 09:54 »
0
You can check out http://www.picworkflow.com for keywording.

http://www.jaincotech.com does editing and keywording, or just keywording if you want
http://www.keyindiagraphics.com does editing and keywording as well and have a 15% discount for microstockgroup members (discount code: MStockGroup)

You won't find any monkeys or slaves there though, and like others have mentioned, you might do well to drop those terms, even if it was meant to be humor.


Indeed. You will find exceptional resentment among Asiansthose who are dominating the outsource industryif you use those terms.  :o

« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 17:08 »
0
Another vote here for dropping the 'slave' term... Good keyworders are worth their weight in gold. There really is a difference between an image with crappy keywords and an image with awesome (relevant, accurate and clear) ones.

Leaf already mentioned my keywording service on picWorkflow... it's the most cost-effective solution around for the price-sensitive among us (myself included). You choose how many keywords you want and a per-keyword rate, the keyworders then add the most relevant keywords till they hit your limit. Payment is between 0.5 cents and 2 cents per keyword. The best keyworders in the system generally work for or above 0.9c/k, which would give you 25 excellent keywords for 22.5 cents per image (and upto 50% of that cost back for free distribution), though some tips on getting the most out of the keywording service can be found here. (We do captioning too)

Well, I'm done pimping :) Please keep in mind that keyworders (even cheap india/phillipines-based ones) are people too, and if you want quality work, you're going to have to pay a bit more than peanuts :)

antistock

« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 09:55 »
0
sorry for the bad keywording but thanks for the feedback !

« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2012, 10:02 »
0
and you might have better luck finding someone if you eliminate the words 'slave' and 'monkey'
exactly my thoughts
... Good luck :)

I have collaborators who profits with me from my stock growth. Try teaching monkeys to crap in your hands if you want, won't help you with that.

To my collaborators, I give them all in all 400-500 images to keywords per month, at .46 to .50 cents each. No upload. I would think uploading and processing the images to the site should be at least worth another 0.50$. I prefer uploading the images myself to the sites, then ask someone to process them in bulk at .15 to .20 $ depending on the site complexity and time it takes to process them to the site. I would refer my partners but not to anyone who treats them like slave :).

Good luck with you Zoo business.

antistock

« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2012, 10:20 »
0
Indeed. You will find exceptional resentment among Asiansthose who are dominating the outsource industryif you use those terms.  :o

i live in asia, i know the score, i was only half joking when talking about monkeys and slaves actually.

antistock

« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2012, 10:26 »
0

Good luck with you Zoo business.

it's not my fault if most of the south and south-east asians i dealt with so far would be unemployable for western standards.

but i also understand pretty well that doing a job like keyworder/uploader is frustrating to say the least, that's actually exactly why i want to outsource and since price is the king factor you can't expect a bargain.

1$ keywording + uploading, sounds reasonable.

antistock

« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2012, 10:29 »
0
PicNiche, very very interesting...

but ... by the way, what you mean in your site for "keywording is CROWD SOURCED" ??
are they working in your office or what ?

« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2012, 10:32 »
0
1$ keywording + uploading, sounds reasonable.

per agency?

antistock

« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2012, 10:34 »
0
I would refer my partners but not to anyone who treats them like slave :).


don't worry, you never heard what they say about us on our back...hehehe... here the westerb PC rules simply don't apply and don't exist.

however, let me remind you in most of asia a 3-400$/month salary is very good, almost on par with doctors and engineers unless we talk of china/japan/HK/taiwan/singapore/malaysia... claiming that half a dollar per keywording is slavery is simply not true, sorry, not even in countryside India, Burma, Bangladesh... i know people living with 5$/day with wife and 3 kids and they're not starving.

antistock

« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2012, 10:37 »
0

« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2012, 10:39 »
0
1$ keywording + uploading, sounds reasonable.

per agency?

1$/photo.

for the uploading which animal? :D

« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2012, 11:04 »
0
PicNiche, very very interesting...

but ... by the way, what you mean in your site for "keywording is CROWD SOURCED" ??
are they working in your office or what ?


By crowd-sourced, I mean the picWorkflow keyworders are 'normal' people just like the rest of us here (home-workers)... all of them are either experienced in keywording their own 1000+ image microstock portfolio (and use pw to earn a bit more on the side) or have keyworded for some of the biggest microstock photographers around. Some details on how the system maintains quality, processing time, and tips for better keywords etc here :)

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 11:10 »
0
I wonder if they have found some of your traits objectionable as well. Be nice. People are people and you reap what you sow.  8)


Good luck with you Zoo business.

it's not my fault if most of the south and south-east asians i dealt with so far would be unemployable for western standards.

but i also understand pretty well that doing a job like keyworder/uploader is frustrating to say the least, that's actually exactly why i want to outsource and since price is the king factor you can't expect a bargain.

1$ keywording + uploading, sounds reasonable.

antistock

« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2012, 11:27 »
0
I wonder if they have found some of your traits objectionable as well. Be nice. People are people and you reap what you sow.  8)

i simply accept them for what they are.
either that or you better go back home.

i'm more than nice with everybody, unfortunately the salary divide between a foreigner and a local is too big for them, you can't expect them to deal with you like they would with the other locals, no matter if you keep the lowest profile, because of the many expats and foreigners flocking here for biz or pleasure and spending like there's no tomorrow now in many places they seriously think in the west money grows on trees, and try to tell them otherwise...

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 12:04 »
0
I am home. And I don't need to travel beyond my house to know that no human beingregardless of nationalitylikes to be called a slave or monkey. This is a global market. The old colonial mindsets are obsolete. Racism and tyrannyin business or politicsis not going to fly nowadays.

I wonder if they have found some of your traits objectionable as well. Be nice. People are people and you reap what you sow.  8)

i simply accept them for what they are.
either that or you better go back home.

i'm more than nice with everybody, unfortunately the salary divide between a foreigner and a local is too big for them, you can't expect them to deal with you like they would with the other locals, no matter if you keep the lowest profile, because of the many expats and foreigners flocking here for biz or pleasure and spending like there's no tomorrow now in many places they seriously think in the west money grows on trees, and try to tell them otherwise...

antistock

« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 22:34 »
0
I am home. And I don't need to travel beyond my house to know that no human beingregardless of nationalitylikes to be called a slave or monkey. This is a global market. The old colonial mindsets are obsolete. Racism and tyrannyin business or politicsis not going to fly nowadays.

hmm ... you obviously never lived abroad so why you judge ?

for your information, it's them seeing us as aliens with pockets full of money, not me.
and it's them being overtly and openly racist, first of all among themselves, then rich vs poors, city people vs countryside people, etc etc

i don't care, i'm used to deal with people of any color, class, and rank, but they don't, and never will.
most of asians simply live in their small microcosm, they've just no clue about the outer world, let alone the west !

i treat everyvbody as human beings, but they often end up treating me as a walking ATM, and there's nothing i can do.
it's just another world, you can't use western logic to deal with third world countries or they will metaphorically eat you alive.

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 22:51 »
0
Very sad. You see the world as your enemy. The only way to peace and cooperation is through respect and treating others the way you want to be treated.

It's ironic. I don't know where you live, but your gross generalizations about Asians is the same crap certain folk utter about Black people in America.

As you presume they see you as an ATM, you see them as slaves and monkeys. Your own words. Be careful what you say and to whom or one of those slaves or monkeys will become president/king/ruler in your country. And when you're looking for work, they'll remember what you said about them.  8)

I am home. And I don't need to travel beyond my house to know that no human beingregardless of nationalitylikes to be called a slave or monkey. This is a global market. The old colonial mindsets are obsolete. Racism and tyrannyin business or politicsis not going to fly nowadays.

hmm ... you obviously never lived abroad so why you judge ?

for your information, it's them seeing us as aliens with pockets full of money, not me.
and it's them being overtly and openly racist, first of all among themselves, then rich vs poors, city people vs countryside people, etc etc

i don't care, i'm used to deal with people of any color, class, and rank, but they don't, and never will.
most of asians simply live in their small microcosm, they've just no clue about the outer world, let alone the west !

i treat everyvbody as human beings, but they often end up treating me as a walking ATM, and there's nothing i can do.
it's just another world, you can't use western logic to deal with third world countries or they will metaphorically eat you alive.

antistock

« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2012, 00:12 »
0
Very sad. You see the world as your enemy. The only way to peace and cooperation is through respect and treating others the way you want to be treated.

It's ironic. I don't know where you live, but your gross generalizations about Asians is the same crap certain folk utter about Black people in America.

As you presume they see you as an ATM, you see them as slaves and monkeys. Your own words. Be careful what you say and to whom or one of those slaves or monkeys will become president/king/ruler in your country. And when you're looking for work, they'll remember what you said about them.  8)

sorry but this discussion is both off topic and pointless.

you're reasoning like the typical western tourists fresh off the last banana boat.

you simply don't know what you're talking about and you certainly never lived in Asia so i've nothing more to say about all this.

« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2012, 10:11 »
0
I would refer my partners but not to anyone who treats them like slave :).


don't worry, you never heard what they say about us on our back...hehehe... here the westerb PC rules simply don't apply and don't exist.

however, let me remind you in most of asia a 3-400$/month salary is very good, almost on par with doctors and engineers unless we talk of china/japan/HK/taiwan/singapore/malaysia... claiming that half a dollar per keywording is slavery is simply not true, sorry, not even in countryside India, Burma, Bangladesh... i know people living with 5$/day with wife and 3 kids and they're not starving.

Why would you want to remind me this? Remind it to yourself, you are the one calling them slave monkeys. I pay them, for me it would be too low but I understand that for them it's good money, that's why I treat them as collaborators.

You seem to have a fixation on Asia, but they come from all over the world, and most are from India. If you want to pay and treat them like slaves, it's your choice, but they'll give you slave work also. Find good English speaking competent and learned contributors and you'll progress.


 

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