Author Topic: Microstock Co-Op For and By Photographers (Read 37206 times)

ljupco · « **Reply #25 on:** December 24, 2009, 10:08 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00

Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

Isn't that how iStock started to operate ?

disorderly · « **Reply #26 on:** December 24, 2009, 10:26 »

Quote from: ljupco on December 24, 2009, 10:08

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00
Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

Isn't that how iStock started to operate ?

Started, yes. But then they figured out that people were willing to pay. Do we really want to go back to the beginning?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #27 on:** December 24, 2009, 10:28 »

Quote from: ljupco on December 24, 2009, 10:08

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00
Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

Isn't that how iStock started to operate ?

Yeah, 8 years ago! And look where we are today. No reason to go backwards in time. Also, once the collection went past Bruce's images, you had to upload and be downloaded to get credits to download others' works.

ljupco · « **Reply #28 on:** December 24, 2009, 11:02 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:28

Quote from: ljupco on December 24, 2009, 10:08
Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00
Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

Isn't that how iStock started to operate ?

Yeah, 8 years ago! And look where we are today. No reason to go backwards in time. Also, once the collection went past Bruce's images, you had to upload and be downloaded to get credits to download others' works.

I guess it was like that, but my point wasn't the need to start another iStock all from beginning, but to underline the things that startups like Youtube, Facebook, iStock have in common, and that is community work, lots of people willing to do something together, not for the money, but for the sake of doing it.

And we won't be doing it for the money, we will be doing it for a fair treatment, for a fair cut of the revenue.

alias · « **Reply #29 on:** December 24, 2009, 11:43 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 09:33

As regards legalities, it is a legal minefield if everyone own's the web site (co-op), if you get sued what happens? 500 of you have to go to court? That's why it's generally better to have one person responsible for the web site.. I don't know what the solution is but it will be interesting to see how this web site works out that problem and I'll post a link and more info here when it's launched!

This is why I believe that the way forward, if one ever emerges, will be a different business model completely rather than a website owned by anyone. Maybe some sort of P2P market place. Perhaps guaranteed via some sort of 3rd party bond - the marketplace maybe taking a transaction charge. Or something.

That said, I doubt it will happen. We might be old and jaded here but the customers I talk to are still completely wowed by how great IS is and see it as a great new thing. Most of them would be ex Getty customers. Microstock is still the revolution.

hqimages · « **Reply #30 on:** December 24, 2009, 12:44 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 09:33
There is a web site being developed currently for free images, made for and managed by the photographers themselves.. it won't be online for a while, but it is developing very fast, and that site could evolve to include a paid section along with the free images.

As regards legalities, it is a legal minefield if everyone own's the web site (co-op), if you get sued what happens? 500 of you have to go to court? That's why it's generally better to have one person responsible for the web site.. I don't know what the solution is but it will be interesting to see how this web site works out that problem and I'll post a link and more info here when it's launched!

Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

True to form I see Sean.

ap · « **Reply #31 on:** December 24, 2009, 14:02 »

Quote from: alias on December 24, 2009, 11:43

This is why I believe that the way forward, if one ever emerges, will be a different business model completely rather than a website owned by anyone. Maybe some sort of P2P market place. Perhaps guaranteed via some sort of 3rd party bond - the marketplace maybe taking a transaction charge. Or something.

i think the key concept here is to create a 'non profit' organization where there are no owners or stockholders to gain from the profits earned. the aim or mission is to allow photographers to not only have a say in running the organization but also to get a fair commission without a middleman.

if run as a non profit, then the photographers can elect board members who will direct the operations of the website and appoint any necessary employees or recruit volunteers.

the hurdle faced by any new stock company is getting enough buyers or establishing a brand. you can either drop prices, or offer a valued added product. on the first, there is a lot of room to maneuvre. i mean photogs are only getting a small percentage (20 - 60%) of the image price anyways. on the latter, a photog run stock agency is both a novelty with some cachet if people start contributing fresh new ideas, etc.

these are just very rough thoughts since we're just throwing ideas around.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #32 on:** December 24, 2009, 14:38 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 12:44

True to form I see Sean.

Maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to the rationale behind a site to give away images for free "managed by the photographers themselves" and why we should be excited?

hqimages · « **Reply #33 on:** December 24, 2009, 15:08 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 14:38

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 12:44
True to form I see Sean.

Maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to the rationale behind a site to give away images for free "managed by the photographers themselves" and why we should be excited?

Don't worry about it Sean, it's not something you would be interested in.

disorderly · « **Reply #34 on:** December 24, 2009, 15:23 »

Assuming for a moment that this discussion is anything other than academic, wouldn't it be easier to either start a new agency or acquire one and let the contributors become stockholders in the new firm? That way they could make money either from their sales or from the value of their shares. And entrusting decisions to a management team will work better than waiting for a consensus to form.

Of course, that leads to the first big hurdle: making that agency a success against much larger and well entrenched agencies that are already in place. That'll require marketing, and that takes money. Unless submitters are willing to front the expenses of a startup, someone else will have to be found. That someone will expect equity, which takes away from the submitters' share. And we're back to a set of big questions: is there room for another agency, how will it differentiate itself, and how will it find a large enough customer base in an already crowded market?

hqimages · « **Reply #35 on:** December 24, 2009, 15:28 »

Quote from: disorderly on December 24, 2009, 15:23

Assuming for a moment that this discussion is anything other than academic, wouldn't it be easier to either start a new agency or acquire one and let the contributors become stockholders in the new firm? That way they could make money either from their sales or from the value of their shares. And entrusting decisions to a management team will work better than waiting for a consensus to form.

Of course, that leads to the first big hurdle: making that agency a success against much larger and well entrenched agencies that are already in place. That'll require marketing, and that takes money. Unless submitters are willing to front the expenses of a startup, someone else will have to be found. That someone will expect equity, which takes away from the submitters' share. And we're back to a set of big questions: is there room for another agency, how will it differentiate itself, and how will it find a large enough customer base in an already crowded market?

It is possible to compete, and to be a success in the microstock market even with the stiff competition, stockxpert proved that.. unfortunately they did it a bit TOO well and attracted a take-over, but it does show that a new site, once it has the backing of the community, can thrive.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #36 on:** December 24, 2009, 15:53 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:08

Don't worry about it Sean, it's not something you would be interested in.

If you're offering to give away what all of us are producing for revenue, I'm sure we're all interested in it.

hqimages · « **Reply #37 on:** December 24, 2009, 15:55 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 15:53

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:08
Don't worry about it Sean, it's not something you would be interested in.

If you're offering to give away what all of us are producing for revenue, I'm sure we're all interested in it.

Funny, Getty seems to quite like free image web sites.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #38 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:02 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:55

Funny, Getty seems to quite like free image web sites.

Boy, that is funny.

Quote

There is a web site being developed currently for free images, made for and managed by the photographers themselves.. it won't be online for a while, but it is developing very fast, and that site could evolve to include a paid section along with the free images.

You obviously made mention of this to get some attention, so what's the deal?

hqimages · « **Reply #39 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:06 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 16:02

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:55
Funny, Getty seems to quite like free image web sites.

Boy, that is funny.

Quote
There is a web site being developed currently for free images, made for and managed by the photographers themselves.. it won't be online for a while, but it is developing very fast, and that site could evolve to include a paid section along with the free images.

You obviously made mention of this to get some attention, so what's the deal?

I made mention of this because I notice this topic is brought up a lot, and I think some people would like the idea to happen, but think it never will. Just wanted to let everyone know that this idea has taken fruit with a number of photographers, and is going to happen at some point in the future. The exact shape/form isn't definate yet, but when it is I will post more about it.

That alright with you Sean?

alias · « **Reply #40 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:22 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:28

It is possible to compete, and to be a success in the microstock market even with the stiff competition, stockxpert proved that..

That was set up at a time when there was investment money slopping around

When microstock first came along it didn't exist

It filled a hole in the market which, it turned out, existed. IE much lower prices for RF.

If you were looking to invest in an idea I think that the thing to do now would be to find a different model which works in a world where microstock does exist.

I keep imagining something more like a stock market, an interface between buyers and sellers with a transaction fee. And probably a fee to post content too. A completely different model.

Not that I think it will likely happen because I cannot see how it would offer the buyers anything which does not currently exist.

hqimages · « **Reply #41 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:36 »

Quote from: alias on December 24, 2009, 16:22

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 15:28
It is possible to compete, and to be a success in the microstock market even with the stiff competition, stockxpert proved that..

That was set up at a time when there was investment money slopping around

When microstock first came along it didn't exist It filled a hole in the market which, it turned out, existed. IE much lower prices for RF.

If you were looking to invest in an idea I think that the thing to do now would be to find a different model which works in a world where microstock does exist.

I keep imagining something more like a stock market, an interface between buyers and sellers with a transaction fee. And probably a fee to post content too. A completely different model.

Not that I think it will likely happen because I cannot see how it would offer the buyers anything which does not currently exist.

Stockxpert didn't attract an investor until it was already a success and pulling a profit, and it was only launched in 2005, so I do personally think that proves you can enter the market even today, and make a thriving web site. I can understand people who think it isn't possible, but I believe it is.

hqimages · « **Reply #42 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:41 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:28

Quote from: ljupco on December 24, 2009, 10:08
Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 10:00
Woo! Free images! Whose smart idea was that?

Isn't that how iStock started to operate ?

Yeah, 8 years ago! And look where we are today. No reason to go backwards in time. Also, once the collection went past Bruce's images, you had to upload and be downloaded to get credits to download others' works.

Not 8 years ago, Istock currently own and run sxc.hu, a stand-alone free image web site.

alias · « **Reply #43 on:** December 24, 2009, 16:48 »

You are going to need a lot of money.

I do not understand what you are planning to offer buyers better than what fantastic sites like the Getty family already do. If you talk to buyers you will find that they have very positive opinions of IS and the Getty sites.

hqimages · « **Reply #44 on:** December 24, 2009, 17:01 »

Quote from: alias on December 24, 2009, 16:48

You are going to need a lot of money.

I do not understand what you are planning to offer buyers better than what fantastic sites like the Getty family already do. If you talk to buyers you will find that they have very positive opinions of IS and the Getty sites.

No point in knocking something before you've seen it. Free images will attract plenty of traffic, and my hope is that can be converted into cash at some point, in a similar way to istock's use of sxc, anyway, Happy Holiday's all

alias · « **Reply #45 on:** December 24, 2009, 17:15 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 17:01

Free images will attract plenty of traffic,

Bandwidth is expensive.

hqimages · « **Reply #46 on:** December 24, 2009, 17:17 »

Quote from: alias on December 24, 2009, 17:15

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 17:01
Free images will attract plenty of traffic,

Bandwidth is expensive.

So is advertising space

Happy Holidays!

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #47 on:** December 24, 2009, 18:36 »

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 16:06

I made mention of this because I notice this topic is brought up a lot, and I think some people would like the idea to happen, but think it never will. Just wanted to let everyone know that this idea has taken fruit with a number of photographers, and is going to happen at some point in the future. The exact shape/form isn't definate yet, but when it is I will post more about it.

Sorry, some people would like the idea of a free giveaway site to happen, but think it never will? I'm not sure that market research is correct.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #48 on:** December 24, 2009, 18:37 »

Quote from: alias on December 24, 2009, 16:48

You are going to need a lot of money.

I do not understand what you are planning to offer buyers better than what fantastic sites like the Getty family already do. If you talk to buyers you will find that they have very positive opinions of IS and the Getty sites.

Yep, no use in using a free, giveaway site to cross promote ... what? Just another site? Guess the future will tell...

hqimages · « **Reply #49 on:** December 24, 2009, 19:06 »

Quote from: sjlocke on December 24, 2009, 18:36

Quote from: hqimages on December 24, 2009, 16:06
I made mention of this because I notice this topic is brought up a lot, and I think some people would like the idea to happen, but think it never will. Just wanted to let everyone know that this idea has taken fruit with a number of photographers, and is going to happen at some point in the future. The exact shape/form isn't definate yet, but when it is I will post more about it.

Sorry, some people would like the idea of a free giveaway site to happen, but think it never will? I'm not sure that market research is correct.

A free site that could ultimately promote a paid section/website, Sean, this idea isn't something you would ever be interested in, and that's absolutely fine.

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Author Topic: Microstock Co-Op For and By Photographers (Read 37206 times)

ljupco

disorderly

Sean Locke Photography

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alias

hqimages

ap

Sean Locke Photography

hqimages

disorderly

hqimages

Sean Locke Photography

hqimages

Sean Locke Photography

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alias

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alias

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Sean Locke Photography

Sean Locke Photography

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