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Author Topic: Most photos - new "midstock" site!  (Read 56944 times)

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« Reply #100 on: October 20, 2007, 05:55 »
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I know the quality of photos is subjective but I did a search for "London" and I thought a lot of the photos were poor quality. 

This doesn't surprise me at all. "London" is not really a good reference word. :) Until just recently MostPhotos was a site only for Swedish photographers. International contributors have started to flow in just a few weeks ago. The images in the database is mainly from Swedish photographers and Swedish sites. When the database grows and the international phogs. start upload their London pictures it will be totally different. :)

Another issue for me is the big preview images with no visible watermark.  I refuse to upload to other sites that don't have visible watermarks.

I do like the look of mostphotos and if there was some quality control and watermarks, I would upload some photos there.

The current watermark is something the contributors voted for a while ago.
I agree that this watermark should be revised and I have also started a poll on that issue in the site forum. I am sure MP will listen to the contributors. What's you take on this issue Suvakov?


« Reply #101 on: October 20, 2007, 06:12 »
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I understand.

But there is a conflict of interest here. Many photographers gets the hang of it very quickly, realizing themselves that the image is"appalling" and consequently removing the images themselves. That is a thousend times better than having a reviewer rejecting them over and over again.
"If you want to feed a man don't give him a fish - give him a fishing net" ;-)

Regarding the London search - please consider that:
1. We are a site with Scandinavian origin - London images is not in our everyday geographical area. Most of the photographers are still Swedish.  2. We have only launched some six weeks ago - we only have just over 35.000 images - that is still veeeery little.
I'm sure the quality will increase as we get more and more international.

Watermarks
Watermarking is optional for every individual member and is managed under your Personal Settings in the Controlpanel (once you join in:-)


« Reply #102 on: October 20, 2007, 06:34 »
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Watermarks
Watermarking is optional for every individual member and is managed under your Personal Settings in the Controlpanel (once you join in:-)


What I think he ment was that the current optional watermark is a bit too weak. It is too easy to clone out. I agree with that.

« Reply #103 on: October 20, 2007, 06:38 »
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I'm agree too, the watermark is ridiculous.  >:(


« Reply #104 on: October 20, 2007, 07:37 »
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I'm agree too, the watermark is ridiculous.  >:(



We will look in to it first thing Monday morning.
Regarding more visible/stronger watermarks- that is no problem - pretty easy fix.

Regarding smaller preview size - that is a programing issue but if we make a more visible water mark, could the existing size work then?


Comments?


Suvakov

Comments?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 07:39 by Suvakov »

« Reply #105 on: October 20, 2007, 08:08 »
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a more visible watermark is critical...now back to the whole "voting" thing. Kill the voting but leave the ability to comment and those photographers that are using the site to "learn" get the benefit while no one is punished because of vote spammers.

Once again, if you guys didn't have an attractive forum in which to sell photos, this thread would have been dead a long time ago. It is not a programming nightmare to remove the numerical voting from the system.

Fix the watermark, remove the numerical voting, and I bet you that the majority of photographers (the good ones) will work with your website.

« Reply #106 on: October 20, 2007, 09:11 »
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At first I didn't understand why the voting was such an integral part of the site, but I think I understand a little better now.

On MostPhotos, there is no approval process for images.  There are no inspectors.

The rating system sort of the alternative to having hired inspectors and basically makes every member an "inspector" of sorts.  It is provided to help with the "Best Match" sorting algorithm so that buyers can find the best images at the top of the sort.

In a perfect world this would work wonderfully.  Great images would work their way to the top of the sort order, and bad images would be banned to the bottom of the sort order.

As we all know, this is far from a perfect world and rating systems have been abused on every site that has had one.  IS used to use the rating system in their Best Match algorithm, but it was abused and is not used anymore.  StockXpert has a rating system, but even that is abused.  I just recently uploaded an image that has become a good seller and someone gave the image a 6 to try and get it off the top of the sort order.  Granted, the image isn't the best in the world, but it definitely isn't a 6.  (If anyone is interested, here is the image: http://www.stockxpert.com/browse.phtml?f=view&id=5393431.  If you don't like the image, then please don't rate it.)

I like the idea of a rating system, but I can't seem to figure out how to implement one that is usable.

I was on Photo.Net for years and they also have a rating system.  For the most part it works, but it is also abused by certain members.  The Photo.Net system works because of the large number of ratings that an image can receive.  In the end, an image will usually average out where it should be.  Great images receive high marks and poor images receive low marks (for the most part).

The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images.

« Reply #107 on: October 20, 2007, 09:50 »
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"On MostPhotos, there is no approval process for images.  There are no inspectors.
The rating system sort of the alternative to having hired inspectors and basically makes every member an "inspector" of sorts.  It is provided to help with the "Best Match" sorting algorithm so that buyers can find the best images at the top of the sort."

- That is how our system works, however it is not as simple as described above - the votes is only one of several parameters - low votes is not automatically a bad image - we have other parameters as well :-)

"I like the idea of a rating system, but I can't seem to figure out how to implement one that is usable"
- Me to - it gives a little bit of human variation to all the math!

"I was on Photo.Net for years and they also have a rating system.  For the most part it works, but it is also abused by certain members.  The Photo.Net system works because of the large number of ratings that an image can receive.  In the end, an image will usually average out where it should be.  Great images receive high marks and poor images receive low marks (for the most part)."
-Thats how it works on MP to - as long as the ratings are few we relay on other parameter more - when the voting base is larger we take more impact from the votes.

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

[/quote]

« Reply #108 on: October 20, 2007, 10:03 »
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I'm going to kick this dead horse one more time:

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

So to avoid "revenge" voting, you'll want to strike first. Prior to uploading your images, seek out the competition, give them #2 or #3 votes (which should dethrone them at this early stage of the site, upload yours and "voila"...you're images are at the top. You can't legitimately be "punished" for this because your opinion of those images was that they were genuinely bad AND it wasn't a "revenge" vote...where there is a will, there is a way to abuse a "popularity" system (just like kids in school have always done - successfully might I add).

We'll re-visit this thread in 6 - 8 months to find that this post is as true then as it is now.


w7lwi

  • Those that don't stand up to evil enable evil.
« Reply #109 on: October 20, 2007, 10:16 »
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One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.

« Reply #110 on: October 20, 2007, 11:01 »
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I'm going to kick this dead horse one more time:

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

So to avoid "revenge" voting, you'll want to strike first. Prior to uploading your images, seek out the competition, give them #2 or #3 votes (which should dethrone them at this early stage of the site, upload yours and "voila"...you're images are at the top. You can't legitimately be "punished" for this because your opinion of those images was that they were genuinely bad AND it wasn't a "revenge" vote...where there is a will, there is a way to abuse a "popularity" system (just like kids in school have always done - successfully might I add).

We'll re-visit this thread in 6 - 8 months to find that this post is as true then as it is now.



Best anonymous,
you are not allowed to vote until you upload min 5 images yourself - voila, any 1-vote-throwing now will be considered "revenging" and your votes will have close to zero impact - then a warning - then kicked out if continuing.... See didn't have to wait 6 months to get the answer on that one either... So what are you gonna do with all time that i have saved you now?? Why don't you just go ahead and start uploading those fine images of yours :-))) But even better wait a day or two until i have fixed a better watermark!

Best regards my friend

« Reply #111 on: October 20, 2007, 11:06 »
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One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.

- Interesting approach, very good. What if we already have implemented something similar in one of the variables (sort of)?
Would that make you more relaxed about voting and votes? :-)

« Reply #112 on: October 20, 2007, 12:08 »
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Suvakov

This is one of those situations where it is best to let others go ahead (the second mouse gets the cheese). I'll wait until the opinions (and track record) are here on the forum and make a decision then. In the mean time, please continue to maintain your interactive feedback here on the forum...everyone here truly appreciates it.

Thx

w7lwi

  • Those that don't stand up to evil enable evil.
« Reply #113 on: October 20, 2007, 13:25 »
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One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.

- Interesting approach, very good. What if we already have implemented something similar in one of the variables (sort of)?
Would that make you more relaxed about voting and votes? :-)

Without knowing what that variable was and how it interfaces with the rest of the algorithm, it's not possible to make an informed judgement.  I wouldn't expect you to make all the variables and their weighting public.  That's part of your proprietary program.  So in the end, it all comes down to each individual's previous experience, level of trust in others and tolerance of risk.  The same things that should be considered when playing the stock market.

Since I haven't really taken a good look at your site and it's goals, what market(s) are you really targeting ... Swedish, Nordic, all of the EU or anyone, anywhere.  And what types of images do you envision would best meet your target market's needs ... travel scenics, people, isolations, business, European only, or ???  I know what market microstock addresses and what needs macrostock fills.  I assume midstock is the grey area where these other two overlap; but, more specifically, what market need does it directly address and how does MP intend to meet that need?

« Reply #114 on: October 21, 2007, 19:47 »
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Hi Suvakov,

what is the minimum size for images? Couldn't find anything about this on your site. I see the smallest unit in your search is L, but I need more precise data, exact pixels please. Thank you.

« Reply #115 on: October 21, 2007, 20:32 »
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Suvakov

This is one of those situations where it is best to let others go ahead (the second mouse gets the cheese).


Anonymous

First time i heard that one;-) Otherwise "Second up is the first looser", "Winner takes it all" and "First is all - second is nothing" seem to be more popular. Everybody know who first discovered America - few know who came second. Anyway there is really no rush my friend you can join whenever you feel ready, we plan to stay up for a long time. Its always a pleasure to discuss with you.

Best regards


« Reply #116 on: October 21, 2007, 20:35 »
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Hi Suvakov,

what is the minimum size for images? Couldn't find anything about this on your site. I see the smallest unit in your search is L, but I need more precise data, exact pixels please. Thank you.

Hi Heyoka,

min 3000 pix in optional dimension (min 4 Mp).

« Reply #117 on: October 21, 2007, 21:00 »
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"What market need does it directly address and how does MP intend to meet that need?"

Our goal is world wide domination. If you queote me on that and insinuating that i am insane i will just deny that i have said it and blame it as a translation error ;-)

Seriosly, we are trying to acchive cultural, geographical and commercial multitude but with the national connection. Thats why we encourage our members to tag the images with their native languge as well as english. If the customer wants images from their geographical vicinity they can limit the search results by using their own language in the search.

Firstly MP is concentrating to surplie customers with images as illustrations and  material for ads in magazines and other printed media as well as to the webb industry. As we evolve we hope to surplie images that the macro sites traditionally surplies to customers worldwide.
Clips will inevitably also be a category in the future.

Naturally we have plans how to evolve and market the site but that is  something that i will not go into on a public forum nor do i discuss the issue outside the board room.

Best regards

« Reply #118 on: October 21, 2007, 21:11 »
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Seriously leaf, have not Mostphotos.com earned the privilege to have a own topic as the other agencies? I mean, the Mostphoto thread have the most replies and it is the 3:rd most read thread under Up and Comming New Sites ;-)

Best regards
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 00:32 by Suvakov »

« Reply #119 on: October 22, 2007, 02:47 »
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Seriously leaf, have not Mostphotos.com earned the privilege to have a own topic as the other agencies? I mean, the Mostphoto thread have the most replies and it is the 3:rd most read thread under Up and Comming New Sites ;-)

Best regards

well no actually.  The qualifying factor for giving a site it's own thread is to have numerous topics about the site (or at least more than one).  If all the sites only had one topic, we wouldn't need different boards at all.  Featurepics who did not have their own board - until just now - had 13 topics about them.

But i was nice and gave mostphotos a board anyhow :)

« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2007, 03:10 »
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Thank you leaf, that was indeed very nice of you.
I will try even harder to answer and contribute  with what i can even harder.

BTW - i love your Spell Check - it is the best thing since sliced bread and power tools, and it really prevents me from embarrass myself with hundreds of spelling errors ;-)

Best regards

« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2007, 08:12 »
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Suvakov,

Is there a way to "mask" or hide your real name on the site? It currently shows my username followed by my real name.

Thx

« Reply #122 on: October 23, 2007, 01:06 »
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Dear anonymous,

no there is no way of doing that at this time. When photographers submit images to agencies the photographers
real identity is sometimes hidden and this is bad many photographers think. The majority of the photographers that
we have interviewed feel that that when selling images for as little as a dollar or two, and furthermore depriving their name
ant thereby also the cred for their images is just not acceptable.
Mostphotos agrees and have no intentions of wrongfully take credit for the individual photographers images.
That is why the real name with nicks is displayed along with any images.

Best regards

« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2007, 07:08 »
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Hi, I just registered in your site.  A problem, where you read terms and conditions, and cant go back, persist, as Clivia already pointed out.

But before starting to upload my images I would just like to know, if there is something to give a new contributors a push, or help in some way, or will my images just start with the smallest rate (and appear way down on search) until somebody sees and rates them ?
I also have a comment about rating images.
You might consider votes from contributors to be only informative, and votes from buyers could be the ones which counts for rating, and even those votes could be pondered with how many images buyers would bought. In my opinion it would decrease revenge effect. Anyway Im not exactly a great fan of ratings anyway.

I hope you could understand what I mean, because English is not my first language (nor second  :P) too.

« Reply #124 on: October 23, 2007, 08:10 »
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Ziva,

How often do you think a buyer would spend his time rating an image?  I only received two comments from buyers in DT, one of them was for a request image.

This discussion really reminds me of SP.  Using members to work (in a way) as inspectors is not going to work, as it doesn't in SP.  In the past, ratings were not anonymous, and everyone who was there then said that this either turned into friends high rating friends or in revenge ratings.  In SP images for rating are presented randomly and unidentified; for images you choose to see you can only leave a comment.

I insist that MostPhotos should use a portfolio review for new members (giving a link to an existing portfolio or uploading sample images). Use only keywords, description and title for a sorting by relevance.  Forget ratings/comments, or use them only as a feedback to the photographer, even unseen to others.  Forget having the site as a learning place.  This is business.

Regards,
Adelaide


 

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