MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Mostphotos.com => Topic started by: swedstock on August 28, 2007, 15:49

Title: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 28, 2007, 15:49
Here is a tip on a new site for you guys who likes to find new places to sell your pictures!

--> www.mostphotos.com (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277) 
Feel free to use my referral link  ;-)

I posted this thread in the "new microstock" section but I guess this Swedish site is really somewhere in between micro and macro if you look at the price structure of the pictures.

Now you will probably think, why bother with another one?
Well, all I can tell you is that I have a good feeling about this one.
I am not affiliated with the owners in any way, but I have been there for some time now, giving tips on improvement in their forum and helped them bugtest some functions. The site was in Swedish to begin with, aimed at a Scandinavian market. (Im Swedish so thats why I joined them in the first place) I am however really impressed with the work they have done with the site in a short period of time, but even more importantly, the changes and new functions they have added are most a result of interaction with the contributors.
The people in charge are active in their forums and they really listen to the photographers requests.
 
The site has been in Beta for some time and in swedish until recently, but they have now started to translate the whole site into english and are just about ready to launch it aimed for a worldwide market. Some texts are not yet translated and most of the discussions in the forums are in Swedish but that will change in the days to come.

This is what they offer as of now:

1. FTP upload and automatic ITPC reading. They just released this function but it works really well as far as I can see. I would compare the "upload smoothness" similar to featurepics and StockXpert, which means it's pretty effortless. You just have to choose one category and the system is fast. Once you get the hang of their system it is easy to upload bigger batches.

2. RF-pictures sells for 25 Euro and 50 % goes to the photographer. You can also sell pictures exclusive and set your own price.

3. The site has a kind of community based structure where fellow photographers can rate and comment on others photos. Based on comments and rating the pictures end up higher or lower in searches. Google loves content and it is fun to get comments on your work. =)

4. No review/quality control on uploaded pictures. Yes, you read correctly. None what so ever. I was very sceptical to this at first but I am starting to maybe change my mind about it. "Bad pictures" get low ratings anyway and end up last in searches. What I like about this policy is that the buyers can chose if a picture is right for them or not, It is not based on one reviewers taste. It remains to be seen if this is sucessful or not.

5. Referral program. You get 1 euro for every picture sold if you referred the photographer or the buyer.

6. I am not sure about Paypal/Moneyb. They have said they are working on it so I guess it shouldn't be too far away.

Feel free to use my referral link  ;-)

--> www.mostphotos.com (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277) 
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 28, 2007, 18:14
My first impression was - wow nice front page maybe this site is not too bad.

my second impression was - why on earth do they have google ads on their image pages.  Seems a little unprofessional and cheap. :(
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 28, 2007, 18:51
My first impression was - wow nice front page maybe this site is not too bad.

my second impression was - why on earth do they have google ads on their image pages.  Seems a little unprofessional and cheap. :(

I agree. That issue has been raised in their forum as well, and I got the impression from there that the google ads was just something temporary under the beta period. I think more "professional ads" will replace it when the site is officially lanched over the next weeks.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: HughStoneIan on August 29, 2007, 00:38
4. No review/quality control on uploaded pictures. Yes, you read correctly. None what so ever. I was very sceptical to this at first but I am starting to maybe change my mind about it. "Bad pictures" get low ratings anyway and end up last in searches. What I like about this policy is that the buyers can chose if a picture is right for them or not, It is not based on one reviewers taste. It remains to be seen if this is sucessful or not.


Don't they even check for model/property releases and copyright/logo infringements?  If they don't, they're treading on very dangerous ground.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 29, 2007, 02:24
My first impression was - wow nice front page maybe this site is not too bad.

my second impression was - why on earth do they have google ads on their image pages.  Seems a little unprofessional and cheap. :(

I think more "professional ads" will replace it when the site is officially lanched over the next weeks.

How about no ads at all.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: bjorn on August 29, 2007, 03:21
what about sales?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ErickN on August 29, 2007, 04:55
How about watermarking ALL the images ?
When you browse through the collection, some of them are watermarked, but many aren't.
Even easier than with FT's watermark, and in 640x480 size !
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 29, 2007, 05:04

Quote
Don't they even check for model/property releases and copyright/logo infringements?  If they don't, they're treading on very dangerous ground.

Not really. They are doing it the same way Alamy and many other macros are doing it. They inform the photographers clearly in the terms that model release has to exist for recognizable people and that copyright/logos are not allowed. Then it is up to the photographer to follow these rules. They don't babysit us. After all it is the photographer that has to face the legal concequences. It also depends on what country the buyer is from and where the picture is to be used. Swedish and European copyright laws are also somewhat different from the American. In Sweden I believe, it is ok to publish a picture that have a logo in it as long as it is not the main focus of the picture. That is just a parantese however, since the site clearly state that they not allow photographers to upload pictures with these kind of copryright issues.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 29, 2007, 05:10
How about watermarking ALL the images ?
When you browse through the collection, some of them are watermarked, but many aren't.
Even easier than with FT's watermark, and in 640x480 size !

Watermarking is optional to the photographer. You choose in your control panel by clicking a box wheather you want all your pictures watermarked or not. Some of the photographers did not want watermarking since they believed it ruined their pictures.

what about sales?


The site is not officially released yet so I don't think these have been much sales yet. I know some people have sold some pictures but it is not much. I think the marketing campaign will begin over the next weeks.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on August 29, 2007, 07:32
Hi my name is Radde and i work together with the creators of Mostphotos and i hope to give you a answer on your comment regarding the Google ads. The beta period for the site is now over and we are launching the site right now. We hope to replace the Google ads soon when we can find companies that want to advertise products and services to semi- and professional photographers who takes their work seriously. Not everybody feels that google ads are "cheap" - myself for example, i don't relay care - in fact i have come across some interesting services (freewebs.com) and great bargains ( a Canon 400D for a reasonable price ) thru the google ads. I also noticed that microstockgroup.com use google ads  and so does hundred and thousends of small business. I don't feel that is something bad. I hope that a small insignificant detail like this will prevent you from joining if there is a lot of other positive things and fun functions on the site.

Best regards

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on August 29, 2007, 07:37
"I hope that a small insignificant detail like this will NOT prevent you from joining if there is a lot of other positive things and fun functions on the site."

Please forgive my bad English - remember I'm Swedish  ;)

Best regards

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 29, 2007, 07:53
Hi there Suvakov - and welcome to the site.  I hope you stick around the site to give your opinion on microstock in general and on your site specifically.

To elaborate on what I was meaning with ads...

I don't think there is anything wrong with google ads or other ads in general.  In fact they are great - they keep much of the internet free.

However, sites that are selling services or products generally don't run adds on their site - such as dreamstime, getty, istock, shutterstock, B&H photo, or any series business website.

Sites that don't sell anything often do have ads to pay for the costs behind the site. Forums, info sites, free newspaper websites...

In my opinion, when i look at a website that is selling something and it has ads (such as google) - to me that means they are not making enough off of their product to make any sort of a profit and have to rely on google ads to make things go around.  which in turn tells me that the site isn't very serious about what they are doing (not that that is neccesarily true, it is just how i feel)

So the question in the end is - Why would you have ads on the site?  To earn money?  If the images are getting sales, would that be enough.  Getty bought Istock for $50,000,000 so it must have been turning somewhat of a profit - It doesn't seem a succesful microstock agency would have to rely on advertising (and directing customers away from their site as well as distracting from the images) to pay the bills.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Pixart on August 29, 2007, 09:50
Also, why would you want someone leaving your site when they click an ad?   They may never come back.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on August 29, 2007, 10:25
You are right leaf.
We are not making significant money yet, nore from selling pics or ads. But we are just launching the site this week, i hope you will give us a chance. We will need the ad revenues later especially when we share the pics revenue 50/50 with the photographers. And your price is not 1 USD it is almost 30 USD. We also implemented a referral system that pays 1,20 USD for every pics sold by a referred photographer and another 1,20 USD for every referred customer that buys a image.
I also believe and hope that we will be restrictive with which ads are going to be accepted. They must have a value for our photographers e.g. news, discounts etc. Nore do we decide what pics you may upload or not as long as you follow the User Agreement. If you break the agreement the pics will certainly be reported by our members (reporting system for offensive images) We do not believe in restrictions as a rule, we like to believe in artistic freedom and own responsibility. Its no wonder the members call it "the democratic imagebank". We did not come up with that slogan, but we feel a responsibility to live up to it.

Pixart:
I'm not afraid that a visitor or a member clicks on a ad that interest him or her. If the visitor clicks away and never returns its not his or her fault it is only ours - because then we have failed to make the ultimate site for photographers and we just have to work even harder! And there is another reason to :) Our members are extremely loyal to the site - we often joke about the fact that it quickly becomes addict - i just love hanging around there with many creative and fun members and i allways learn something new almost every day.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 30, 2007, 06:04
Another thing that i like with Mostphotos is the personal page you get there.
When a client ask to see some work of mine I usually give them the link to my portfolio there.
http://www.mostphotos.com/moori
You get a fairly good overview and I rather direct buyers to Mostphotos or some other midstock agency than any of my microlinks simply because I get payed more.
Buyers don't have to register either just to buy one photo.

There are still some issues that need to be resolved at Mostphotos but at the speed the site has developing since i joined, I am pretty confident that it soon will be ready to take some marketshares, especially in northern Europe. I think that many designers and adpeople in these regions still are pretty much unaware of the micro-/midstock buisness and I think that this site have the potetiontial to change this.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: null on August 30, 2007, 08:14
Not everybody feels that google ads are "cheap" - myself for example, i don't relay care - in fact i have come across some interesting services (freewebs.com) and great bargains ( a Canon 400D for a reasonable price ) thru the google ads.

As for me, I'm just allergic to ads. That's why I threw my TV out 4 years ago. Adblocking is on the rise. Many people use the Firefox adblocker plugin with daily updated lists. I use it. It makes surfing ligther and faster. I don't see Google ads or any other ads -ever-. So for me it's new there are even Google ads on this forum site.

No ads is the best policy, but quod licet Iovi, non licet Bovi ;-)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: null on August 30, 2007, 08:35
My first impression was - wow nice front page maybe this site is not too bad.

I don't know what type of connection you're on but the site took many seconds to reach from here, and then 3 minutes to load the front/landing page. I found out why, they have a huge set of full-screen background photos on their landing page, worth 327KB.

It's bad for them since they will lose a lot of bandwidth, and bad for business since most people click away after 5 seconds maximum. A landing page should be blazing fast, with essential info, no flash or other gimmicks, just plain optimized HTML. See Dreamstime, see Flickr. These guys should really read some manuals on basic webdesign and human interfacing. Nobody sticks around waiting for a 327KB landing page to load.

Gives a very amateurish impression. Whatever, just my 2 cents. Don't expect me to click on that link ever again. I'm on limited bandwidth.

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 30, 2007, 08:42
Not everybody feels that google ads are "cheap" - myself for example, i don't relay care - in fact i have come across some interesting services (freewebs.com) and great bargains ( a Canon 400D for a reasonable price ) thru the google ads.

As for me, I'm just allergic to ads. That's why I threw my TV out 4 years ago. Adblocking is on the rise. Many people use the Firefox adblocker plugin with daily updated lists. I use it. It makes surfing ligther and faster. I don't see Google ads or any other ads -ever-. So for me it's new there are even Google ads on this forum site.

No ads is the best policy, but quod licet Iovi, non licet Bovi ;-)

there are google ads on this site only when you are not logged in.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 30, 2007, 09:08

I don't know what type of connection you're on but the site took many seconds to reach from here, and then 3 minutes to load the front/landing page. I found out why, they have a huge set of full-screen background photos on their landing page, worth 327KB.


3 minutes?? Takes like 2-3 seconds for me, tops.
What kind of internet connection do you use?
I know there has been discussions about that frontpage in the site's forums. The staff wanted opinions whether they should take it away or not.
I think they even took it away for some time but put it back when a lot of us photographers requested it. I myself, think it looks new and fresh and different from what other sites have. It is an eyecatcher that raises interest.
However, if it is so slow to many users as you describe, it is not good at all. Do the rest of you guys that has checked of the site feel the same slowness regarding the front page? I will forward your concerns to the admins.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Pixart on August 30, 2007, 09:09
To be honest, I've tried to view that site 3 times and was too impatient for it to load so I have still not viewed.  I've got high speed cable.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 30, 2007, 09:24
the site loaded quick for me, but then again i am in norway so it doesn't have far to travel (if the site is hosted in sweden) .... if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on August 30, 2007, 14:15
Hi all, thanks for all comments about the Mostphoto site, i hear you all.
Let me start with the frontpage of Mostphotos: Personally i agree with the  criticism. For a while i had my way and the page was removed. But pretty soon members stated to complain, the webdesigners and the programmers join in, and the first time visitors - photographers started to mail us about how the site lacked "something"??? Then the bouncerate results came in. We had a bounce rate at 10,8% with the flash-frontpage. The week after we (i) removed it, we was up to 23,6%. So in a true democratic way we put it back again. The same day mails was comming in, congratulating us for the great frontpage(?!!!) Member thanked us in the forum and praised us in the chat(?????) I am really sorry that some of you guys have a hard time loading it, as a matter of fact, thats why i disliked it the most, but it seems that some webclients have trouble with it ans some don't. Let me dig in to the this again tomorrow first thing and i will See what i can do about it? OK?

The ads.
I know ad blocking is on the rise, but so is microstockbusting to. I know it because i was verbally attacked by two Californians artists in a discussion, when they found out that i worked with member submitted images. Essentially i wounder why the resistant against ads? What would the world look like without advertising. Well, the stock market would certainly be a lot smaller that is for sure. Suddenly its a matter of biting the hand that feed us all? But here is a suggestion, what about if i could  fix a "ad-free-zone" for top image submitters. Lets say that the top 100 photographers will never see a ad on the site, would that be a token of my respect for you?  Then i will do it. As a matter of fact we already discussed it this morning.

The bottom line is: the ads must be our bred and butter until the sales start picking up and starts generating revenue.

But listen guys, lets leave the ad (and it is not such a big one i assure you) and the front page (we can allways optimize it one way or another) please let us talk about essentials now:
What about the 50/50 split on RF, the 30/70 split on EXL and the referral program that pays almost 4 times more than the average micro stock sites pay you guys for every personal download???
I had to fight the brass hard , especially regarding the referrals - so do you like it or not?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on August 30, 2007, 15:07
I'd like to add one more thing to your list of essentials Suvakov. It's 50/50 on 25 Euro not 50/50 on a dollar. THAT'S essential in my book (and my wallet) :)
I sure like it, hopefully the buyers find their way to the site soon too.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 31, 2007, 03:45
Does the referral program ever 'time out' or if i have a referred photographer do I earn money as long as that photographer is signed up?  if that is the case then yes, it is a super deal.  Right now i think shutterstock has by far the best deal because referred photographers don't 'disappear' after 1 or 3 years like dreamstime or fotolia.

As far as the ads go.  I don't mind looking at the ads personally, and so I don't really care if there was a 'preferred' photographers status where' i didn't have to look at ads or not.  My point was, that when buyers come and see that the site has to rely on ads to make their payments they may think to themselves... wow, don't they make enough selling images??  there must be something wrong with this site if they need to have ads on it to make any money - or to make things go around.  This is also the same things possible contributing photographers may also feel.  If they need to have ads on their site, they are obviously not going to be able to sell my images.  This is how I felt anyhow.

So perhaps if that wasn't clear my main point is.  I don't mind looking at ads at all, what I don't like is the impression they give - that the site is relying on ads to survive (instead of image sales).
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on August 31, 2007, 05:56
Yes, leaf - it never times out.
Sure, the top brass wanted a time limit but i insisted on no limit or no deal at all.
Further more, not do we only keep track on who referred who - we also ask new members to submit who referred them to the site, when they register for the first time. I mean , mabye you referred someone  you just met on the bus when going to work. And this person could not register instantly the same day, nor did he remember your referral link, but he rememgered your name and the site name mostphotos.com. Then we can still link the new member to you so you can get your commision.

Was i clear about the fact that you also get commission if you refer customers to the site? We added this because we wanted to make sure that even if the customer dont find anything in your gallery but find a god pic in some other members gallery, you still get comission for the marketing. In that way all members gets to be less competitors and more partners - how about that?

//Radoslav
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on August 31, 2007, 07:54
well i applaud the referall program.  Well done  :)  Right up there with shutterstock on that one.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 05, 2007, 05:58
Nice to see that many of your nicknames are registred on Mostphotos now.  :)
The "community structure" of the site is really addictive. You will soon be as hooked as I am  ::)
I recommend you to try out the new FTP-upload.
Upload and tagging is really easy and fast!

--> www.mostphotos.com (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on September 05, 2007, 06:47
yeah, things are looking nice over there - i just can't get over the ad's on the side though.  It ends up looking more like a portfolio / photo sharing site (like deviantart (http://www.deviantart.com)) than it does a site that is serious about selling my images.

That is fine if it is supposed to be a portfolio / photo sharing site, but then I would put it in a different catagory than a stock site.

ok sorry I am done now.  I won't harp on that again.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on September 05, 2007, 07:03
I just came back from looking over the site. It loaded very fast for me (DSL connection in the USA) and I saw no ads.  I thought it was nicely done but found the search engine gave me too many hits that were not what I had been looking for.  By example, I typed in "poison ivy" and saw all the pictures where poison was listed such as snakes, then all the pictures where ivy was listed. 
But, my biggest complaint is that the seller's terms of service are not yet in English.  Sorry, but I think I'll hold off signing up until I can read the TOS myself..
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on September 05, 2007, 07:05
do you have an add blocker?

The ads come when I do a picture search.  The fill the right hand of the screen.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on September 05, 2007, 07:17
I don't have any specfic adblocker, but my firewall has a popup blocker, perhaps that is doing it for me.  I don't mind the "image sharing" format as long as my images are watermarked and right hand clicking is disabled.  Right now my website is linked only to FP and I'd be happy to consider adding this site but, I do want to be able to read the TOS for myself first.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on September 05, 2007, 09:48
I can't see how not having a review or quality control will work.  A photo might look great to those rating it but have noise or artifacts or chromatic aberration when viewed at full size.  That will annoy the buyers and they will be better off using the cheaper microstock sites that do have good quality control.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 05, 2007, 11:51
Rosta:
The issue of the non translated texts is handled as we speak. This is cut from Mp's forum:

"The legal advisors (swed and US) are doing the last touch ups on the USER and LICENSE AGREEMENTS as we speak. I think the translated versions togheter with some updates to protect the photographers will be uploaded tomorrow or Friday at the latest. A summary of all updates and changes to the AGREEMENTS will also be mailed to every single member thru MP mail."

Sharpshot:
In was very sceptical to this approach too at first and I went on and on trying to convince the owners that it wouldn't work.
Now, however ...I have started to change my mind. I think of it as an interesting experiment.
Even though reviewers on other sites usually are correct in most of their decisions, it happens once in a while that you get rejected for reasons that you cannot understand.
One bestselling picture on one site can get a "we don't consider this stock quality" on another.

If we forget about the technical quality of the picture for a second, this system with user reviewed pictures could in theory be much more fair. You get your picture reviewed based upon what a large number of people think, not just one person. The site owners recommend and urge you, to  review your pictures yourself on a regularey basis and remove all pictures that has grades 3,5 or below when they have recieved sufficient amount of reviews. This way the database will be cleaned out of pictures considered bad. I think they will even release an easy function for you to sort out these pictures soon too.

About technical quality you make a validd point.
The pictures will not get a equal good review in that area as in the big 5.
You can, however when you rate someone elses picture, zoom in and get a fairly good look at noise levels and so on and rate based upon that too.

Then again, I personally feel that the zero noise tolerance that for instance SS has is way over the top. face it, most people don't look at pictures at 200% crop.
A picture with a lot of noice is not good and Most photos trust the users to have the sense to upload good quality images.

Will it work?
I don't know.
But I'm intrested to see how things will play out. :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 05, 2007, 11:54
I just came back from looking over the site. It loaded very fast for me (DSL connection in the USA) and I saw no ads.  I thought it was nicely done but found the search engine gave me too many hits that were not what I had been looking for.  By example, I typed in "poison ivy" and saw all the pictures where poison was listed such as snakes, then all the pictures where ivy was listed. 

I think that the search engine is something the tech guys over there are working on right now as well.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 05, 2007, 14:12
Hello again every one.
I'm sorry that i haven't visited you guys for some days but i am preoccupied with sales calls to publishers, and ad agency's making advertise direct to the image buyers. Because we are fairly (no, very=) unknown yet we give sales visits first priority. I  must admit that i was a little rusty, but my presentation skills improve by the day and the customers are interested, and its not so much the prices but the fact that it is a democratic site that gets them interested. And the fact that i have 17 years of experience from desktop publishing seems to give me a edge compared with fresh out of school salesman. A few of the customers are obsessed by high def no noise images but the wast majority have no interest in using the stock images for big campaigns and posters - most of them are interested in the images as extra illustrations and webbdesigns. They are not interested in the "perfect image" - they are just want the right enough image. It is rarely that the customer use the image without any adjustments to a stock image. If i speak for myself i don't think i ever have used a stock image without "fixing it up" a little.
Enough about me.
Moori: You are very well informed, i have read your comments and you are spot on correct - i couldn't have answered it better myself.
Rosta: I have full respect that you want to read the agreement in English - there is really no need to rush into a agreement that you don't understand, we will be here tomorrow too, you can sign up whenever you feel ready. The fact that many nationalities already signed up without understanding the agreement makes me feel humble, thanks for your trust in us.  I remember discussing with moori who was sceptical at least, that we did not have watermark in the beginning. Eventually moori started to upload without the watermark function, that if anything is a sign of trust. Thanks again moori, for your trust in us.
Sharpshot: Don't automatically assume that your fellow photographer member will get you slack on bad quality. Remember that many of the customers are also creative and good photographers and may very well end up as members on Mostphotos. And they have a very good perseption on what images are commercial or artistic enough to suite their intended purposes. Sometimes they may very well be a harder critique's than the other stock sites.
Leaf: I think that you agree that if we builded "just another standard stock site" we would have less chance than a snowball in h#ll to succeed in this business. More important, having a site with welldesigned functions that makes meeting, learning and sharing experiences easy, just cant be bad. Who knows, you might end up on the Mostphotos Awards, reciving the Best Stock Image Award in the future? Enjoying the hospitality of the Swedish people and the Scandinavian summer!! Because thats what can happend when you encourage the meetings between people from all over the world!

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 06, 2007, 07:23
Suvakov: Nice to hear that you guys started to market the site now.
Are you offering anything special to the clients in terms of promotions/special offers at the moment or is it mainly letting people know you exsist?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 06, 2007, 08:51
Both, some clients want to make direct contact with photographers around the world, for example publishing houses that offers royalty on published images. Thats generally how publishing houses work. I'm offering the "request -image-function" to contract customers, meaning they can get in contact with suitable photographers for exclusive work depending on for ex geographical location. When the customer wants to buy the agreed images they pay on line and the photographer gets payed in instantly without having to send invoices across the Atlantic (or across the rest of the world). And the smart photographer (as you all guys are) collects the rejected images and upload them on Mostphotos. In that way the photographer gets payed twice for the same job! That is smart thinking, is it not??? But as you said: A significant part of the sales visits is to make professional buyers aware of that we exist!

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 06, 2007, 08:53
... and a buy 2 for 1 offer to all visited customers naturally.....

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 06, 2007, 11:28
looks like the terms of seller are translated now....
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 06, 2007, 11:38
Rosta: Welcome to review the  English licence and user agreements :-) www.mostphotos.com
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on September 06, 2007, 14:15
I found it, thank you
r
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: yingyang0 on September 06, 2007, 15:55
Not really. They are doing it the same way Alamy and many other macros are doing it. They inform the photographers clearly in the terms that model release has to exist for recognizable people and that copyright/logos are not allowed. Then it is up to the photographer to follow these rules. They don't babysit us. After all it is the photographer that has to face the legal concequences.
I have a few problems with the site. First is the rating system model. That system doesn't work in practice (just look at the ratings on IS).
1) "Ratings Groups" tend to form and game the system.
2) People will also game the system by down rating other people's photos that come up better in the search results.

The second problem is the ad revenue model. I know that getting venture capital these days requires some sort of ad driven model, but it is off putting to photo buyers. You don't see any of the other big agencies doing it, and it is for a reason.

The final and most important problem is that the site will likely be sued in the US for either copyright or some form of invasion of privacy because of their no review policy. Since the photographer's terms don't contain an indemnity clause the site would be liable for any judgment . The terms only say the following, "4.5. By entering into this agreement MEMBER accepts that it may not hold MOSTPHOTOS responsible for any damages, losses, costs, infringements of intellectual property or any other occurrence or on any other ground." That only limits the photographer from suing the site, it doesn't make the photographer liable for the judgment or legal costs from a 3rd party suing the site. Why would someone want to upload their portfolio to a site, when at anytime the site could be shut down because of a lawsuit in the US (look at what happened to bodog.com).
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 07, 2007, 02:37
Thank you for your comments yingyangO.

Regarding the rating system: Surprisingly (or not) I do not agree that it do not work:-) The rating of the image is based on many variables and not entiarly on what rating the image get from single members. That would be naive at least. We monitor the site and the rating system for any deviations out of the normal. We also keep track on who rated what and every member can also see how a this critique have been rating from 1-10. Excessive down rating or up rating will show directly in his or hers rating information. When the site keep growing even small "rating groups" will be marginalized, and the manipulators will face the fact that the time they are spending on trying to game the system would have been better used, if they actually went out and took better images.

Regarding the ads: I'm a image buyer since 7 years back. i don't mind ads, they don't put me of? No one of the customers i have visited have commented on the ads? They have commented other things but not the ads. I would like to have some time to look into this further, because when ad sales pick up we will have  muscle enough to do some further changes for the benefit of our members. Why the other big ones don't do it i don't know. Maybe the are following the same reason as you? I am not satisfied with that - i want to know for a fact, and until i have a good answer the ads stays.

Since i am a citizen of northern Europe i am not entiarly familiar with the bodog.com issue if you are referring to the gaming site? But wasn't Bodogs problems a result of the Unlawful Internet Gambling and Enforcement Act? The lawsuits from the entertainment industry was also dropped. I think that we have leagal protection alltough the agreements are under constant change. I also believe that a lawsuit against mostphotos.com is a little far-fetched, but if that would be the case i can only congratulate all photographers on the site. The media attention that would focus on the site and the images would be enormous. There is no way we would ever afford to pay for a worldwide ad to potencial buyer all over the world. The members would cash in huge if this would be reality.

Regarding the indemnity clause that will be fixed by Monday at latest.

New comming feature:
Drag-and-drop your low earning, low scoring images directly to the trash can so that your portfolio look as sharp it can be. Customers review your entire portfolio and may request exclusive images based on your skills and earlier work.

Must rush now - have to make the last business calls for today.

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on September 07, 2007, 02:57
Even if the ratings system works, I don't like seeing so many poor quality photos on a site that sells for more than the micros.

A search for "london" brings up this page.  If I was a buyer, I would be put off by the poor quality.

http://mostphotos.com/search.php?imagesearchedit=london&x=0&y=0&querytype=search&exclcheck=on&royalcheck=on&vertcheck=on&horizcheck=on

Perhaps if the lower rated photos were instantly deleted when enough people gave them a low sore it would help.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: null on September 07, 2007, 05:44
Must rush now - have to make the last business calls for today.

I agree with yy about the rating clubs, as to bias. I was on a site like that long ago and several factions had formed that downrated and flagged each others photos all the time. A naughty remark in the forums was enough.

Second, the raters cannot really judge, since they see the photo only in reduced size. How can they judge artifacts, fringe, noise?

Third, most raters are not advanced amateurs or (semi-)pro like people that are used to work for microstock. I want to be judged at least by peers, sorry.

Fourth, this site is a high-maintenance site, since you are expected to rate and comment a lot to get Karma. I'd rather take pictures or postproduce photos. If I want hugs and aahs and wows, I go relax on my pro-Flickr account. Yes, I like an upload-forget-payout site.

As being spotted by publishing houses, well... Flickr has many millions of photos, some of great artists, and I guess potential customers will scout there.

The sites looks great now, it's stable and very well programmed. But I doubt this can be called mircro/midstock. It's rather a Flickr with possible payout. I will give it a try anyway, for B-shots that I never postprocessed or done with my old 2MP cam.

The ads don't bother me at all, since I simply don't see them. Firefox AdBlock rules ;-)

Finally, I was a little bit annoyed that Moori was pushing the site here all the time with an apparently "clean" link, but it was a referral link for him. Normally, when people put referral links online, they mention that. I had to clear all my cookies before I could do a clean register. I don't mind using somebody's referal link if I like or admire the person, but when it's done in a semi-sneaky way, I just get stubborn ;-)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on September 07, 2007, 07:42
FD, i agree with all of your points except the last one.  Moori had this very clear in the first post of this topic.  Granted it was in the last paragraph, not the beginning where he first put the link but it was there.
R

"Feel free to use my referral link  ;-)

--> www.mostphotos.com   
 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 06:14:02 AM by moori » "
 
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 07, 2007, 09:02
As mentioned in the previous post I made it pretty clear in my first post that the link was my referral link. (at least I thought so)
One of the reasons I push for the site is of course that if people register with my ref.link, i would get a percentage of their sales also. Nothing fishy about that.  Standard form A.

The main reason I push for the site, however is not that. I have come to really like the community we photographers have developed over there. It is a free and open enviroment where I can can express my opinion freely about the site or anything else in photography without beeing censored in any way, and the developers make the site for the most part according to our suggestions and critisism. The way the community rate and comment each others pictures is also something I have learnt to really like. It's kinda addictive even. It is a great way to get tips on improvements and learn more about photography.

Here is a 100% clean link without any referrals for you who don't want to thank me for tipping you about the site. ;-) http://www.mostphotos.com (http://www.mostphotos.com)

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 07, 2007, 10:45
PD: Why upload B-shots when you can upload your best shots with the same effort? It dont make sense to me?

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on September 07, 2007, 16:01
I agree with Flemish, the whole rating thing is completely lame. I've uploaded a couple of images and the little "power raters" are firing out the crap numbers...I'll upload my portfolio when / if they do away with the feature. It smacks of Shutterpoint...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on September 10, 2007, 13:28
I agree with Flemish, the whole rating thing is completely lame. I've uploaded a couple of images and the little "power raters" are firing out the crap numbers...I'll upload my portfolio when / if they do away with the feature. It smacks of Shutterpoint...


One "crap vote" from a non-serious user is said to have little or no impact on how the picture show up in searches. The system is smarter than that. :)
When the picture has been up for a while and recieved more votes, it will not matter at all.

I have some high rated pictures that has recieved one or two low votes and it havn't affected them.
It is also important to know that the rating system is only one variable in the photos "most photo index number". Other things such as number of searches, relevant keywords, number of views and above all number of times the image is sold ,will have much greater impact on the index.

--------------------------------------
--> www.mostphotos.com (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277)
(my referral link)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on September 21, 2007, 16:20
Hello everybody,

just wanted to inform you that Mostphotos has added Paypal and Moneybookers to our system. Minimum payout 10 euro, equals one sold image.

Best regards

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 16, 2007, 12:50
Thank you all that believe in us and upload images on Mostphotos.com!

Customer interviews and sales calls
We grow by about 1000 images a day in average and we ow it to you microstock photographers.
With this rate we will hit the magic 100.000 just before the Christmas sales and the customers single argument
against Mostphotos.com is slowly vanishing. To this date we have some 32.000 images, some six weeks after launch.
Even if sales are still slow, we have picked up the beat without buying of photographers or faking sales on the site, making false impressions that
the sales have taking off big time.

The report from the customers interviews is:
 - "Great idea and concept" - they love the democratic  approach, the prices are "outstanding" compared to the conventional
image banks as Scanpix, Getty and the rest. 80% of the interviewed customers don't mind that the bank is small for the time being, as long as it grows with
todays average rate. 20% find the concept appealing but want to wait with registration and purchases until we hit between 100.000-200.000 images.

Over all i find the results very positive and will continue to do sales calls to customers even more frequent than before, to match the effort
you all make to our common site.

Technical improvements:
The rating system just turned "Artificial Intelligent" this week! The system is scanning for search word spamers and is continuously monitoring the search words and relevance to viewed images. This means that images with non relevant search words will be identified over time and the "popular" words will be automatically removed. So sorry all spamers - your scam efforts wont be worth while.

Further more the rating system now work with more variables than before and there by identifying good images with better accuracy then before
and depending less on bad or good ratings from other members. Since all ratings nowdays are public and after we removed the opportunity to vote if you have not uploaded images yourself, so called "power raters" have drastically dropped, now even more marginalized with the new rating variables.

Surprisingly enough even professional microstock photographers get quickly familiar with the vote/comment/and rating system of Mostphotos. Often find themselves rating and commenting even if they never intended to do so in the first place. Maybe photographers are more generous to their fellow colleagues than the average Joe, but sharing experience and helping each others seems to be common in the photographer community, i m h o that is.

Mostphotos in the media
Democratic foundations are popular in Scandinavia as well as in the whole world in general. We are getting good press and we work with pressreleases in our marketing. Our first release was viewed by 12(!) journalists during one month on the leading pressrelease agency in Sweden. Yes... i know... that is almost pathetic. But the second release was viewed 108 times in six hours. Hopfully we will get more and more attention from media from now on.

Intrestingly enough one of the biggest photo magazines mentioned us in their newsletter today and we have not even spoken to the newermind payed them off??!! This resulted in that some 80 semi- and professional photographers registered their accounts in six hours and started to upload images immediately. Is it not funny what power the media holds today?!

Enough for today - its back to the business calls again. Don´t you just hate those cold calls??! Newertheless they still have to be done.

Best regards

Radislav Suvakov


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 16, 2007, 13:37
Great news Radde!
I had two sales last week, for 25 Euro each.
More than LO has produced for me in six months  ;D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 16, 2007, 14:19
moori:
That is my point - why do excellent photographers reduce their own trademark for cents when they can build their trademark....   oh my Good.... Hasselhof just started singing "I have been looking for Freedom" on the radio... and i forgot what i was thinking.... (that is a really bad song!!!) Pardon.
... build their trademark on a site that pays almost 20 times more for every sold image?

By opening the gates for all images that meet our simple technical requirements we simply concentrate to become The BIGGEST place for easy access, afordable images on the internet. Our belive in that every image have a potential buyer is proven almost every day. Sometimes the hole crew laugh when we see what images that are sold so having a rewiever that decide what image is "good" or not is useless. The image we consider is bad was accepted as good enough and bought by the buyer for 25 Euro! So who is right and who is wrong?
The customer of course!

Our goal is 4 milions commercial images by 2009/2010. Every active member uploads about 30 images on average to their gallery. We need ruffly 135.000 members to achive our goal. That means about 4000 image uploads/day to the end of 2010. Impossible? I dont think so... Just to illustrate the numbers - 4000 is upploaded to flickr in two (2) minutes....

Further more we predict that microstock will have serios problems ahead. More and more people compete over the same pennies. The whole Eastern block and the Asian continent is ready to start delivering. The established microstock photographers should use their advantage in skills and quality and move upp the payment ladder.
By only staying at the microsites they will be forced to produce more quantitys to stay ahead. Further more the customers already complaint that a significant amount of images are the same regardless wich microsite they visit, and it is partly true. About 10 percent of the pro stock photographers in the world submit almost 50% of the images on the Six Big Ones.
Even other micro sites are turning to alternatives. As you surely know, one of the upcomers, is now releaseing a "midstock" alternative within its microstock business. Good luck with that! Starting of on extremly low prices and then try to increse the price is a very hard task once the buers have adapted to the low price. Compare to the internet in general. What happends when a business wants to charge for services that have been for free in the past? No go. Espescially when the customer can not apprechiate the difference between a micro stock image and a mid stock image. Do you get my point?

To survive as a successfull stock photographer in the future will require to make and follow a carefull plan on how to take care of AND increase the value of your trademark - your images! It is a good idea to join a mid stock site and get up to 15 times more for one image and then slowly reduce the exposure of your images on microsites when the earnings pick up.
The goal is to upgrade your images and earn significant money on midstock and finally exit the microstock market completly. This will result in only one or two sites to maintain and upload - more profit and less work.
Then if you like, you can start the process all over again. Shifting from midstock to macrostock. If your plan is to only stick with the Big Six, you maby should review your plan once in a while... Not planning and staying inactive have never been the a good platform for success and prosper, and there are no signs that this will be the case today or in the future.

This is my plan for our members and im busting my balls every day on cold calls and visiting customers
to make success come true - for me and my fellow members. How many other Site Managers is out there
traveling by car, train and subways and working the customers instead of sitting on their *** in the office 9-5?

Thats why moori =)

Best regards

//Radislav Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Kngkyle on October 16, 2007, 15:17
No watermarks? The preview size is HUGE for not having a watermark.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 16, 2007, 15:23
KngKyle:

Its optional for every user under personal settings. Some photographers mean that the watermark
is bad for sales some don't. As said, its optional once you sign up as a member.

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ragsac on October 17, 2007, 00:06
I signed up last week and upon upload some of my images, i see the ratings and comments from other members.

I can't undestand is the rating system varies from say, -4.3 to + 34. Who determine my image ratings?

I received critics and positive comments immediately as i go to the latest uploads view.

Very easy in uploads just  2 clicks if FTP. :)


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 17, 2007, 10:24
First it is important to know that the customers can not see comments or good or bad critique - this is only intended for the members.

Your index is a result of many variables as well as your image history on MP. "Newbies" have lower impact on ratings as well as lower startindex than for example members with many images and many sales.

I really don't want to go into details about the MP-index but to make you feel more secure i just want to ad that that if you are a serious stock photographer you don't have to worry about the ratingsystem. If you have intresting images, your MP-index will start rising. Further more the index is recalculated every day, depending on how good your images are and how well they sell.

You just keep uploading your best images and everything is gonna be allright.

Best regards

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Clivia on October 17, 2007, 11:36
I tried to register, - three times.
The first time I tried to enter who had refered me to the site, and it threw me out.
The second time I came to the bottom of the form and clicked to read the terms and conditions before I completed registration. When I clicked the back button to go back to the registration for, all my details had gone.
I completed the form again. I live in Cheshire in the UK. The form insists that there are no cities in Cheshire. It will not let me enter a city manually. It will not accept my registration without a city being entered.
The form is also quirky. When I tried to key in my nickname, each time the cursor jumped to the previous field. It took about three attempts before the cursor stayed where it belonged!
I give up. Sorry, I would have loved to upload a few images. :(
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 17, 2007, 15:53
First it is important to know that the customers can not see comments or good or bad critique - this is only intended for the members.

Suvakov,

I haven't signed up yet and I haven't even checked the site, but members rating members is an issue anywhere, especially if it can somehow (even if not done right now) be used for search ranking.

This is a huge cause of inflamed threads in ShutterPoint, where there are no inspections so members may upload whatever crap they want, and then they get angry when get a poor rating on that unfocused shot of a dog with shadows from direct flash - it's their pet and they love it!

Not showing ratings to non-members is a good thing, but remember that many sellers are buyers too.  And strange numbers like those ragsac said look maybe useless.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on October 17, 2007, 16:01
Ratings aside, I have had two images that fellow members found slight and easily correctable problems with.  Once they pointed them out, I could see them clearly and immeaditly corrected the images and resubmitted them.  Both these images have been up on some of the big six for months;  none of the "inspectors" had noticed the problems.
I am now updating sites with  the corrected images.
r
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 17, 2007, 16:06
Rosta,

This is the kind of feedback I like in SP as well.  This simply doesn't require a numerical rating, though. 

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 17, 2007, 18:17
clivia:

Thank you for pointing out the problems you experienced with the registration.
The problems you encountered are not acceptable in any registration procedure especially not on my site. The positive side is that you came to the right guy! I will make sure that the programmers fix it and i will inform you if you would like to visit us again in the future.

Best regards

Radislav Suvakov
Mostphotos.com
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 17, 2007, 19:02
madeleide:

The rating system (numerical rating) is by fare the easiest and most effective way for the community to explain and introduce members and fellow photographers to the importance to share knowledge and give suggestions and critique on images. Its a good graphic aid to first give a numerical (graphic)"score" and then transform this "score" into words in a comment. Comments that amateurs as well as professionals can use to evolve i their photography technique or their images. Like rosta said in her post.

About the "dog&flash" photographers and inflamed threads of upset member: Please feel free to browse the MP forum for such treads, and you will find that its not a big issue on MP. Especially since we marginalized the vote-variable in the MP-index. MP members just seem to get over bad ratings with no substantial comments real quick. And i salute them for it - because that is a good quality in real life to. Not to waste time and energy on crap.

And regarding the fact that the owners love their pet - of course they do. Don't you think that a comment about HOW they should do to portray their pet in the best possible way would be well appreciated instead of just a " Wow - that is a bad picture and ugly dog"-comment?? Sure it would!
Why dont people comment something like this to a flash&dog artist? -"That is one cute puppy! Did you know that if you lower your camera to your dogs level, put the focus on his eye and mabye bounce your flash on the celing - i bet your images would match the beauty of your dog - what do you think?"

Beccause we don't believe in traditional image inspectors we need to have a alternative and the MP-index is the best we have come up with so far. The index is a complicated, never ending programming issue and will evolve over time to be even more accurate. It is not always important to know how the index is calculated and what "-2,5" means - its more important to know that it work!
Like my pension fond - I'm not familiar in detail how the system works to generate my future pension - I'm just interested that i does  - and that it does it well.

So come on - start uploading  and stop worrying - your images are great, you will be just fine. ;)

Best regards

Radislav Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Pixart on October 17, 2007, 19:55
Look, I registered last night, but I'm not about to join the party if the speed issue isn't addressed.  It just took 84 seconds to load from Central Canada, 7:45pm (cable high speed).  This might be a surprize to you because I think there was another thread before and you thought all had been improved.  I tried to pop some photos open last night and it was excruciating.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: dbvirago on October 17, 2007, 20:33
Can't connect at all now
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: micke on October 18, 2007, 04:19
Hey everyone, I'm the project manager for Mostphotos.com.
Its sad to see that you have experienced problems registering and uploading images on our site but i i promise, we do everything we can to find solutions to the problems you listed.
Clivia, i would really appriciate if you could tell me what browser you where using when this problems occurred and if you have javascript enabled in your browser? We have a few Ajax solutions on the site that requires javascript to be enabled.

And regarding the speed issue, we are currently hosted on a 1gb/s connection and the site is running on two brand new 2,4ghz quad core high performance servers from dell so my best guess is that its a routingproblem. We have a few members from the states and Canada that reports good connections speeds, but we will try to solve it. It would be great if i could get the ip address for your ISPs gateways so we can do a trace route to try find the problem.

We are aware that its a problem to host the servers here in Sweden and the next step will be to set up some servers in the us and in some other locations. But we just launched so it would be great if you could have some patience with us until we are up and running full speed.

But as i said, we will try to fix the problems that you report and i hope you all will help us to be as good as we can be.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on October 18, 2007, 06:44
By opening the gates for all images that meet our simple technical requirements we simply concentrate to become The BIGGEST place for easy access, afordable images on the internet.
....
Further more we predict that microstock will have serios problems ahead. More and more people compete over the same pennies.

And this will be different in the future because ... ?  How does raising the price not have more and more people competing over the same pennies.  In fact, you have more people competing for less sales, especially if you are "opening the gates".
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 18, 2007, 07:50
the "country, city, and state" drop boxes don't even populate, can't make a selection, thusly cannot even get in to the site (7:45 am CST 101807)...
once you guys get that fixed, please drop the stupid "rating" system...you've got a lot of troll whores throwing 1 point ratings at good images...it's pointless and obnoxious.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: dbvirago on October 18, 2007, 09:40
I think it is a nice effort, but honestly, trying to populate a drop down from a database with every state/city in the world is a bit above and beyond. Keep it simple
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: epixx on October 18, 2007, 10:57
I think it is a nice effort, but honestly, trying to populate a drop down from a database with every state/city in the world is a bit above and beyond. Keep it simple

That part actually worked fine for me. Even my little village in Thailand was there. But the rating system has to go. If the agency wants to rate the photos, fine with me. They're supposed to know what they are doing. But when every Paul, Dick and Harry are supposed to rate photos, the results will be original to say the least.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Bateleur on October 18, 2007, 11:47
Is the web address

http://www.mostphotos.com (http://www.mostphotos.com) ?

It's certainly a photo agency site, but is it the same one as being discussed?

Just want to check


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 18, 2007, 11:52
I think it is a nice effort, but honestly, trying to populate a drop down from a database with every state/city in the world is a bit above and beyond. Keep it simple

That part actually worked fine for me. Even my little village in Thailand was there. But the rating system has to go. If the agency wants to rate the photos, fine with me. They're supposed to know what they are doing. But when every Paul, Dick and Harry are supposed to rate photos, the results will be original to say the least.

That was my initial thought as well, and I'm pretty sure that is what most new users think.
I changed my mind after using it for a while however, and it seems to me like most users on the site feels the same.
When using the site for a while they see the pro's of the system.
It seems like a stupid idea for an outsider but when you get to know more about how it works it is not really that bad.

Fisrt of all, the customer that browses for pictures is not one person. Just like the contributors it is "Paul, Dick and Harry", all with different taste and requirements.
Why should one reviewer decide what images are good or bad? A combined rating of 50 people must be more accurate that the opinion of one.
There is of course the technical issue but really crappy looking pictures will get low votes by most users and end up last in searches anyway. I have spoken admins of MP in the site chat and they say that they are amazed what people are actually interested in buying. They say they are amazed how good some pics sell even though they can be mediocer to say the least from a professional photgraphers viewpoint. Some customers want pictures they don't find elsewhere, unique pictures and most are beeing used in small prints and on the web. Digital noise doesn't really matter then, does it?

It is also important to understand that the rating is only a part of the MP-index.
It doesn't really matter if one or two people would rate your pictures down either (and if these people are doing it often they woun't get away with it)
It doesn't affect the overall rating much and the MP-index is based upon other things, sales, view, good keywording, how good your other pictures are, and more.
Don't get stuck with the rating system. It is not as bad as you think, seriously.  :)
See the oppurtunity to sell pictures with good cash return instead, pictures that may not have been accepted by IS or SS but still can useable for a lot of customers.
I sure like the fact that two red paint brushes on white background that SS/IS didn't want, gave me 12,5o Euro in one sale.  ;)


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 18, 2007, 11:54
Is the web address

[url]http://www.mostphotos.com[/url] ([url]http://www.mostphotos.com[/url]) ?

It's certainly a photo agency site, but is it the same one as being discussed?

Just want to check





yup, thats the one.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 18, 2007, 13:40
The rating system (numerical rating) is by fare the easiest and most effective way for the community to explain and introduce members and fellow photographers to the importance to share knowledge and give suggestions and critique on images. Its a good graphic aid to first give a numerical (graphic)"score" and then transform this "score" into words in a comment. Comments that amateurs as well as professionals can use to evolve i their photography technique or their images. Like rosta said in her post.
Suvakov,

In theory, I agree with all you said.  But my experience in SP is that some people, when they find a place they can upload whatever they want with a chance to sell it, they do upload crap.  This is one huge problem in SP, because if you search for something you get a lot of substandard images (you get great ones too).  I have rated images below any level of quality, and they are not removed by the photogs.  And the more you make it look like "this is a place where you give and receive critique", more people think it's ok to upload anything to get advice.

The idea is nice for a photog community, a message board.  But when it's about business, I prefer more quality control.  It doesn't have to be like Crestock when it comes to rejections, but a minimum level of quality must be kept.  At least for signing up, I think it would be advisable to ask for samples of images (that's what I have asked SP staff for ages, and unfortunately never saw). 

I'll take a look at the site, but this "community" feel doesn't really attract me in a selling outlet. 

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 18, 2007, 14:00
[In theory, I agree with all you said.  But my experience in SP is that some people, when they find a place they can upload whatever they want with a chance to sell it, they do upload crap.  This is one huge problem in SP, because if you search for something you get a lot of substandard images (you get great ones too).  I have rated images below any level of quality, and they are not removed by the photogs.  And the more you make it look like "this is a place where you give and receive critique", more people think it's ok to upload anything to get advice.

The idea is nice for a photog community, a message board.  But when it's about business, I prefer more quality control.  It doesn't have to be like Crestock when it comes to rejections, but a minimum level of quality must be kept.  At least for signing up, I think it would be advisable to ask for samples of images (that's what I have asked SP staff for ages, and unfortunately never saw). 

I'll take a look at the site, but this "community" feel doesn't really attract me in a selling outlet. 

Regards,
Adelaide

I know that the MP admins have advised the users to delete pictures themselves when the pictures have recieved a sufficient number of votes and have an average vote under 3 or something like that. I, personally, wouldn't mind if they made this removal automatic when the picture has recieved,  say 15 votes or so. That would clean out a lot of substandard pictures from the database in the future when it gets larger.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: epixx on October 18, 2007, 19:25
The problem with a voting system is that there will be "vote spamming", like we see on other sites. On iStock, we know that it's organized, and no images get other than "5" nowadays. It's only a question of time before groups (like ourselves) start promoting each other's photos.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 18, 2007, 21:20
moori wrote:
I know that the MP admins have advised the users to delete pictures themselves when the pictures have recieved a sufficient number of votes and have an average vote under 3 or something like that. I, personally, wouldn't mind if they made this removal automatic when the picture has recieved,  say 15 votes or so. That would clean out a lot of substandard pictures from the database in the future when it gets larger.

Completely insane. Rule #1; a photo is determined "good" or "bad" by the potential buyer, not the spammers or the home owner's association of the web site (aka fan club). Rule #2; As a seller, I truly could not give a  dribble about what anyone thinks about my work, except the folks buying it. Rule #3; if you're going to remove images, base it on lack of sales (you're saying that an image with a "3" or lower rating will be booted even if it sells 50 copies). Rule #4; search engines should search by "relevance", not voting (doesn't serve the buyer, only the photog).

I like the layout of the site and the potential that it might hold, however, at current rate it will wind up just like Shutterpoint and that simply is sub-par... sorry moori...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 01:22
By opening the gates for all images that meet our simple technical requirements we simply concentrate to become The BIGGEST place for easy access, affordable images on the internet.
....
Further more we predict that microstock will have serious problems ahead. More and more people compete over the same pennies.

And this will be different in the future because ... ?  How does raising the price not have more and more people competing over the same pennies.  In fact, you have more people competing for less sales, especially if you are "opening the gates".

sjlocke:
This can very well become the future for the Microstock business photographers - but not for individuals that evolve and protect their trademark (their name and photos). Mostphotos have not raised the prices - we have determined our nisch - on the other hand other competitors accuse us of lowering the price. I have been doing sales calls to about 60 ad-agencies and other graphic businesses and do you know how many that have raised price-issues against MP? One! ( a Istock customer ) and he was forced to accept that did not allways find the right image at Istock. If every customer was focusing on price nobody would drive BMW or Mercedes in the world - our streets would just be flooded with VW Beetles. By "opening the gates" MP only state that every image has potential - but some images just have more potential than others. MP don't determin which image is bad - we let the customers determid - and they do it by buying or not.

Regarding "How does raising the price not have more and more people competing over the same pennies.  In fact, you have more people competing for less sales, especially if you are "opening the gates".
- I don't understand what you mean by "less sales" - the market is not static, the sales is determined by how many customers MP attracts and how much of their budgets they determind to spend on MP. There is no business in the world (that i can think of right now anyway) that  have decided that the market is full and stopped producing their products They simply adjust or evolve their products to fit their customers demand and get back in to the business again.

Best regards

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 01:42
the "country, city, and state" drop boxes don't even populate, can't make a selection, thusly cannot even get in to the site (7:45 am CST 101807)...
once you guys get that fixed, please drop the stupid "rating" system...you've got a lot of troll whores throwing 1 point ratings at good images...it's pointless and obnoxious.

- The drop menu will be fixed in some way, maby with a alternative field or something else. We need to know your home location for several reasons. For one, we have to deal with national tax issues. The other reason is that in a near future our customers will have the possibility to contact photographers with special requests from a geographical standpoint.

- Regarding the "1 point throwing trolls" they are already taken care of by the system. Throwing around 1 pointers (or even 10 pointers) will have no effect - apart from embarrassing yourself to other members AND minimizing the impact of your votes (to zero)
Please stop worrying about the voting system - it is completely unique - and it works fine!

-The most serious problem is however that you cant get into the site. I can only regret the fact that you have problems connecting - we do followups on the server status and communications -  and must conclude that it is a result of relayproblems to our servers. Hopfully we will be able to station servers in the U. S. sometime in 2008.

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 19, 2007, 01:44

Rule #3; if you're going to remove images, base it on lack of sales (you're saying that an image with a "3" or lower rating will be booted even if it sells 50 copies).


No, sorry I forgot to mention that. My suggestion applied only to pictures that haven't sold at all over a period of time and recieved low votes by a sufficient number of people. Pictures that sells should never be removed.
Note that this is not MP's suggestion. Just my thoughts on the rating system.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 02:00
The problem with a voting system is that there will be "vote spamming", like we see on other sites. On iStock, we know that it's organized, and no images get other than "5" nowadays. It's only a question of time before groups (like ourselves) start promoting each other's photos.

- I prefer the average vote of 50, 100, 1000 or 10.000 members/customer over a one individual ( examiner) decision.
I can also see signs on MP that the votes are becoming more in balance with reality,  In our case i think the members have evolved in their judgement and are not longer easily impressed with flower, kids, pets and bug images no more. I find it positive.
By starting and participating in "spamming groups" you will revealed by the system, warned and if continuing finally excluded from the site because of violation of the User Agreement. You can try it - i simply dont recomend it.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 02:24
Anonymous wrote:

"Completely insane. Rule #1; a photo is determined "good" or "bad" by the potential buyer, not the spammers or the home owner's association of the web site (aka fan club). "

- True, thats why we NEVER reject or remove images from MP! If it is not in vialation with the User Agreement of course.
But however we recommend that you as a photographer take a closer look at a image with a 3 or less average vote that has been uploaded for a long period of time. Is this really a image that stand up to YOUR standard? If it is - good for you! Don't  delete it.
As a matter of fact i myself check and delete some of my images regularly. But if a image have low rating that i like - i just ignore it!
It is a matter of "kill your darlings" - then you are a real professional!

"Rule #2; As a seller, I truly could not give a  dribble about what anyone thinks about my work, except the folks buying it. "

- True and that is the right way - the votes are simply inputs to you - if you choose to ignore it - fine! That is allright!
(Thats what i do to sometimes =)

"Rule #3; if you're going to remove images, base it on lack of sales (you're saying that an image with a "3" or lower rating will be booted even if it sells 50 copies). "

- NOT TRUE, that is  why we NEVER remove images from MP! We dont have to. Either the image is being removed by the photographer or we just get more diskspace ;-)

"Rule #4; search engines should search by "relevance", not voting (doesn't serve the buyer, only the photog)."

- True, thats why the search engines mainly consider the searchwords and it is also why the system remove irrelevant search words overtime. (Yes, it does remove irrelevant search words- haven't you been reading the thread carefully? ;-)

"I like the layout of the site and the potential that it might hold, however, at current rate it will wind up just like Shutterpoint and that simply is sub-par... sorry moori..."

- Not true - i hope ;-)

// Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 19, 2007, 07:37
Suvakov,


What about the possibility of someone "opting out" of the popularity voting?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 09:02
Suvakov,


What about the possibility of someone "opting out" of the popularity voting?

- i´m not sure if i am familiar with the expression "opting out"- remember that I'm Swedish ;-) but if you mean the possibility of someone cheating the system there is always a possibility as in all systems created by man. But it is much smaller today then four weeks ago. But why don´t you try and see if your voting have a significant impact on any images? But do i quickly because as the site grows bigger your individual vote will have less and less impact.

Lets leave the voting for a minute because its significance is overestimated regarding the MP-index.

What more can i do to attract more photographers to the site except a referral system for photographers AND customers, payouts via Paypal and Moneyboker, 10 euro min payout (one image), 18 USD for every sold image, 2 for one- offer to customers?

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: zorki on October 19, 2007, 09:30
This whole voting thing is a joke. On iStock there are gangs of people that vote on each other's photos to boost their standing in the search engine. It won't work because people will abuse the system. We proved that voting on images on istock does boost your rating in the best match search.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 19, 2007, 10:06
This whole voting thing is a joke. On iStock there are gangs of people that vote on each other's photos to boost their standing in the search engine. It won't work because people will abuse the system. We proved that voting on images on istock does boost your rating in the best match search.


But does Istocks system deal with that abuse at all? Mostphoto's have thought about this issue and claim that they have built in a control in the system that will reveal cheaters and deal with it.
I have to agree with Radde, you guys are putting way too much focus on the rating system. Look at the other things they are offering you.
Have you even tried the site or are just giving it a pass because of your feelings about a user controlled rating system?
The voting is only a PART of the images MP-index. Sales, views, relevant keywords and many other things are more important in the images total rating.
Feels like Im repeating myself here, dont really know why I put energy in promoting MP.
Hopefully some people use my referral link and make me some bucks.
I have seen in my ref. account that some of the people joining with my ref link have started to make sales.  ;D
I dont really care how they rate their theír images as long as they look out for the photographer and give good cashback.
LO, snapvillage  and the other newbies have a different system and might have good reviewers and all, but they haven't produced any real money for me so far, MP has has. The cashback on every image is WAY higher that the others.
To me THAT's whats important.
Im in the process of quitting a lot of the smaller agencies outside the big 5 at the moment if they don't pick up. It's just not worth the time and efforts. Scand stock, New darkroom and a few other has already been canned and more will go the same way. I will only keep submitting to the agencies that gives good payouts or the ones that I really believe will start to pick up in the year to come. MP is one I'm keeping.

My ref link--> www.mostphotos.com (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277) 


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 19, 2007, 14:44
- i´m not sure if i am familiar with the expression "opting out"-
Suvakov,

It means choosing (opting) not to have our images rated.

I would insist that people should be approved as member by showing some quality work.  This doesn't mean that by being approved I won't upload some crap, but it's less likely to happen than in the case of someone who can not show some decent work to begin with.

In case you don't do that, you really risk becoming another SP, with the advantage (for the photographer) that you don't charge for storage.  Many people sign up to SP because of the feedback, seeing the site as a learning place.  Unfortunately, too many people...  Gladly there are some awesome members there, and many average ones like me, to balance it.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: dbvirago on October 19, 2007, 15:00


What more can i do to attract more photographers to the site except a referral system for photographers AND customers, payouts via Paypal and Moneyboker, 10 euro min payout (one image), 18 USD for every sold image, 2 for one- offer to customers?

//Suvakov

Make us money.

We will tell others. T

hat means marketing.

When people ask which sites to join, the anwer is always the same. The ones listed are the ones that make money.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Imagine on October 19, 2007, 17:34
I tried to sign up but my city is not listed.  I live in Holtsville, New York, USA.  Also when I went to select a state there are many selections that are wrong and not states. I think it would be much easier to type where you live then to select a city. So I could not sign up. Help would be appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 19:31
Suvakov,


What about the possibility of someone "opting out" of the popularity voting?

- Thank you for the explanation on "opting out" ;-) I´m sorry to inform you that there is no such plans for the moment. But i dont understand why you would want to opt out? I have been looking at your images and the members votes will doubtless be advantageous for you.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 19:46
"This whole voting thing is a joke. On iStock there are gangs of people that vote on each other's photos to boost their standing in the search engine. It won't work because people will abuse the system. We proved that voting on images on istock does boost your rating in the best match search"

I'm sorry you feel this way, but the voting is no joke to me. Over the past three months i have seen some amazing evolution by some photographers, some in their images and some in how they look and comment images - and this is no joke either.
Further more i wouldn't refer to Istock as a joke but a very competent competitor, some 50 milion reasons says that Istock is not a joke but a success - ask Getty I'm sure they agree with me.
The best match search on Mostphotos is mainly based on relevant search words and not votes.

We also have photographers that do not antisipate in voting at all and they still make sales - simply because quality never goes out of style. No votes can change that.

Best regards

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 19:52
I tried to sign up but my city is not listed.  I live in Holtsville, New York, USA.  Also when I went to select a state there are many selections that are wrong and not states. I think it would be much easier to type where you live then to select a city. So I could not sign up. Help would be appreciated. Thanks

We are on it - i´ll get back to you as soon we have a fix on the issue.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 20:06


What more can i do to attract more photographers to the site except a referral system for photographers AND customers, payouts via Paypal and Moneyboker, 10 euro min payout (one image), 18 USD for every sold image, 2 for one- offer to customers?

//Suvakov

Make us money.

We will tell others.

That means marketing.

When people ask which sites to join, the answer is always the same. The ones listed are the ones that make money.

Well of coarse - that is obvious ;-) But from what i hear the up and comming are not as up and comming as one would expect. A few of them have been active for a while but still do not meet their expectations and the majority of microstock photogs still continue to upload?
That means that there is something else that attracts other than just money?

Mostphotos.com has only been released some six weeks ago so significant sales cant be expected with only some 35.000 images (yet).

Very well, we don't plan to launch any major functionalities - just some small ones. Our conclusion is that the site is set and we are now focusing on marketing and sales.

//Suvakov

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: gbcimages on October 19, 2007, 21:00
Are you having problems with other from the US logging on? I tried open your page and after 2.5 min I quit .
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 19, 2007, 21:06
Not only U S - i cant log on and im just 60 miles from the server. Yes something is definitely wrong - i have alerted my webmaster (but its 04.00 am here in Sweden) Hope to be on line soon again!

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on October 20, 2007, 03:27
Why do the photographers only receive 50%?  Sites that pay for reviewers pay around 50% and their costs must be a lot higher than Most Photos.

I still don't understand how a site can work with no quality control.  Wont it just fill up with images that are rejected from other sites?  Surely the buyers will be annoyed when they purchase a file that looks OK on the screen but has problems at a larger size.

Who wants to wade through page after page of low quality images?  I have seen some of the junk that reviewers have to look at and I don't see how filling up a site with that can be a good idea.

The buyers are going to be annoyed at downloading images with technical problems and they are paying more for them than at sites with good quality control.  It just doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 04:18
MP is up and running again. Waiting for the report to see what caused the interuption.

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 05:21
Why do the photographers only receive 50%?  Sites that pay for reviewers pay around 50% and their costs must be a lot higher than Most Photos.

I still don't understand how a site can work with no quality control.  Wont it just fill up with images that are rejected from other sites?  Surely the buyers will be annoyed when they purchase a file that looks OK on the screen but has problems at a larger size.

Who wants to wade through page after page of low quality images?  I have seen some of the junk that reviewers have to look at and I don't see how filling up a site with that can be a good idea.

The buyers are going to be annoyed at downloading images with technical problems and they are paying more for them than at sites with good quality control.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Sharpshot:
Designing and  programing a site with functionality from scratch is very costly, as well as costs for software and hardware. We also have av referral program that not all others have. Further more i feel you are comparing cents with euros. The average micro pays about 30-50 cents/ image - we pay 18 USD.

Secondly what i can see you have already raised the quality issue in a previous post and the answer is the same. MP current problem is not junk images.

Nobody have to wade trough low quality images. Our search engines display the most popular images first. You are very focused on technical quality, my impression is that the customers in general are not.
All images can be inspected closer before any purchase.

Further more you seem to presuppose that images in our gallery is off poor technical quality - which is not true. What annoys customer more is that they see the same images over and over on allmost every microstock site.

There is no evidence of Mostphotos is being filled with rejected images from other sites nor signs that it will be in the future. Don't bother submitting images with low commercial or technical quality on MP - they wont sell any better here than on other stock sites and they will finally be displayed in the bottom of the search results (way, way down).

On the contrary we give all photographer a chance to resubmit images that have been rejected but that you feel that the image have selling potential. Beccause reviewers can not really guarantee if a image will sell or not, chances are you are right and they are wrong regarding the image potential.
Chances are you might just find a really good seller!
Wouldn't that feel nice - make a lot of bucks on a "rejected" image? =) (20 downloads on MP = 360 USD)
Not bad for any reject ;-)

Someone even suggested to upload the rejected images on MP and reserve the admitted to other stocksites - what is the logic in that?
Reserving "good" images to sites that pays 50 cent per download and withold them from a site that pays 18 USD for the same download??
I really hope that i have misunderstood this due to translation - if not i will feel really confused.

Best regards

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on October 20, 2007, 05:44
Microstock sites pay more than you think.  Most of my EL sales are over $18 and I now get them a few times each month.  Most of the sites pay me 50% for these and they have the added cost of reviewers.

I know the quality of photos is subjective but I did a search for "London" and I thought a lot of the photos were poor quality.  Some of them are near the top of the page.  I know that some sites reject too many images and the customer should have more choice but I think there should be some form of quality control, even if it is just one person deleting the images that look appalling.

Another issue for me is the big preview images with no visible watermark.  I refuse to upload to other sites that don't have visible watermarks.

I do like the look of mostphotos and if there was some quality control and watermarks, I would upload some photos there.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 20, 2007, 05:55

I know the quality of photos is subjective but I did a search for "London" and I thought a lot of the photos were poor quality. 

This doesn't surprise me at all. "London" is not really a good reference word. :) Until just recently MostPhotos was a site only for Swedish photographers. International contributors have started to flow in just a few weeks ago. The images in the database is mainly from Swedish photographers and Swedish sites. When the database grows and the international phogs. start upload their London pictures it will be totally different. :)

Another issue for me is the big preview images with no visible watermark.  I refuse to upload to other sites that don't have visible watermarks.

I do like the look of mostphotos and if there was some quality control and watermarks, I would upload some photos there.

The current watermark is something the contributors voted for a while ago.
I agree that this watermark should be revised and I have also started a poll on that issue in the site forum. I am sure MP will listen to the contributors. What's you take on this issue Suvakov?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 06:12
I understand.

But there is a conflict of interest here. Many photographers gets the hang of it very quickly, realizing themselves that the image is"appalling" and consequently removing the images themselves. That is a thousend times better than having a reviewer rejecting them over and over again.
"If you want to feed a man don't give him a fish - give him a fishing net" ;-)

Regarding the London search - please consider that:
1. We are a site with Scandinavian origin - London images is not in our everyday geographical area. Most of the photographers are still Swedish.  2. We have only launched some six weeks ago - we only have just over 35.000 images - that is still veeeery little.
I'm sure the quality will increase as we get more and more international.

Watermarks
Watermarking is optional for every individual member and is managed under your Personal Settings in the Controlpanel (once you join in:-)

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 20, 2007, 06:34

Watermarks
Watermarking is optional for every individual member and is managed under your Personal Settings in the Controlpanel (once you join in:-)


What I think he ment was that the current optional watermark is a bit too weak. It is too easy to clone out. I agree with that.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Smithore on October 20, 2007, 06:38
I'm agree too, the watermark is ridiculous.  >:(

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 07:37
I'm agree too, the watermark is ridiculous.  >:(



We will look in to it first thing Monday morning.
Regarding more visible/stronger watermarks- that is no problem - pretty easy fix.

Regarding smaller preview size - that is a programing issue but if we make a more visible water mark, could the existing size work then?


Comments?


Suvakov

Comments?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 20, 2007, 08:08
a more visible watermark is critical...now back to the whole "voting" thing. Kill the voting but leave the ability to comment and those photographers that are using the site to "learn" get the benefit while no one is punished because of vote spammers.

Once again, if you guys didn't have an attractive forum in which to sell photos, this thread would have been dead a long time ago. It is not a programming nightmare to remove the numerical voting from the system.

Fix the watermark, remove the numerical voting, and I bet you that the majority of photographers (the good ones) will work with your website.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: GeoPappas on October 20, 2007, 09:11
At first I didn't understand why the voting was such an integral part of the site, but I think I understand a little better now.

On MostPhotos, there is no approval process for images.  There are no inspectors.

The rating system sort of the alternative to having hired inspectors and basically makes every member an "inspector" of sorts.  It is provided to help with the "Best Match" sorting algorithm so that buyers can find the best images at the top of the sort.

In a perfect world this would work wonderfully.  Great images would work their way to the top of the sort order, and bad images would be banned to the bottom of the sort order.

As we all know, this is far from a perfect world and rating systems have been abused on every site that has had one.  IS used to use the rating system in their Best Match algorithm, but it was abused and is not used anymore.  StockXpert has a rating system, but even that is abused.  I just recently uploaded an image that has become a good seller and someone gave the image a 6 to try and get it off the top of the sort order.  Granted, the image isn't the best in the world, but it definitely isn't a 6.  (If anyone is interested, here is the image: http://www.stockxpert.com/browse.phtml?f=view&id=5393431 (http://www.stockxpert.com/browse.phtml?f=view&id=5393431).  If you don't like the image, then please don't rate it.)

I like the idea of a rating system, but I can't seem to figure out how to implement one that is usable.

I was on Photo.Net for years and they also have a rating system.  For the most part it works, but it is also abused by certain members.  The Photo.Net system works because of the large number of ratings that an image can receive.  In the end, an image will usually average out where it should be.  Great images receive high marks and poor images receive low marks (for the most part).

The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 09:50
"On MostPhotos, there is no approval process for images.  There are no inspectors.
The rating system sort of the alternative to having hired inspectors and basically makes every member an "inspector" of sorts.  It is provided to help with the "Best Match" sorting algorithm so that buyers can find the best images at the top of the sort."

- That is how our system works, however it is not as simple as described above - the votes is only one of several parameters - low votes is not automatically a bad image - we have other parameters as well :-)

"I like the idea of a rating system, but I can't seem to figure out how to implement one that is usable"
- Me to - it gives a little bit of human variation to all the math!

"I was on Photo.Net for years and they also have a rating system.  For the most part it works, but it is also abused by certain members.  The Photo.Net system works because of the large number of ratings that an image can receive.  In the end, an image will usually average out where it should be.  Great images receive high marks and poor images receive low marks (for the most part)."
-Thats how it works on MP to - as long as the ratings are few we relay on other parameter more - when the voting base is larger we take more impact from the votes.

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

[/quote]
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 20, 2007, 10:03
I'm going to kick this dead horse one more time:

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

So to avoid "revenge" voting, you'll want to strike first. Prior to uploading your images, seek out the competition, give them #2 or #3 votes (which should dethrone them at this early stage of the site, upload yours and "voila"...you're images are at the top. You can't legitimately be "punished" for this because your opinion of those images was that they were genuinely bad AND it wasn't a "revenge" vote...where there is a will, there is a way to abuse a "popularity" system (just like kids in school have always done - successfully might I add).

We'll re-visit this thread in 6 - 8 months to find that this post is as true then as it is now.

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: w7lwi on October 20, 2007, 10:16
One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 11:01
I'm going to kick this dead horse one more time:

"The other problem with rating systems, is the "revenge" factor.  If a member receives a bad rating (even though it might be a bad image), they might then take revenge on the rater and give them bad ratings on ALL of their images."
- Already taken care of :-) By revenging you not only embarrass yourself in front of the community and marginalize your votes impact, you also get warned for violations against the User Agreement and risk being banned from the site terminating your images and any funds on your account . So if any spammers/revenger's feels lucky enough try bobbing the system - go ahead... its just not worth it - better to use the time and actually go out and learn to take better images!

So to avoid "revenge" voting, you'll want to strike first. Prior to uploading your images, seek out the competition, give them #2 or #3 votes (which should dethrone them at this early stage of the site, upload yours and "voila"...you're images are at the top. You can't legitimately be "punished" for this because your opinion of those images was that they were genuinely bad AND it wasn't a "revenge" vote...where there is a will, there is a way to abuse a "popularity" system (just like kids in school have always done - successfully might I add).

We'll re-visit this thread in 6 - 8 months to find that this post is as true then as it is now.



Best anonymous,
you are not allowed to vote until you upload min 5 images yourself - voila, any 1-vote-throwing now will be considered "revenging" and your votes will have close to zero impact - then a warning - then kicked out if continuing.... See didn't have to wait 6 months to get the answer on that one either... So what are you gonna do with all time that i have saved you now?? Why don't you just go ahead and start uploading those fine images of yours :-))) But even better wait a day or two until i have fixed a better watermark!

Best regards my friend
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 20, 2007, 11:06
One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.

- Interesting approach, very good. What if we already have implemented something similar in one of the variables (sort of)?
Would that make you more relaxed about voting and votes? :-)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 20, 2007, 12:08
Suvakov

This is one of those situations where it is best to let others go ahead (the second mouse gets the cheese). I'll wait until the opinions (and track record) are here on the forum and make a decision then. In the mean time, please continue to maintain your interactive feedback here on the forum...everyone here truly appreciates it.

Thx
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: w7lwi on October 20, 2007, 13:25
One change to the rating system that would make it a bit more fair would be to use some form of the Olympic Scoring system.  That is, throw out the highest and lowest scores and average the rest.  I'd think something along the line of throw out the highest and lowest of the first 20 ratings, the highest and lowest two scores of the first 40, and so on in 20 rating increments.  Is this perfect, of course not.  But it would help minimize both positive and negative spamming as well as revenge rating.

Just a thought.

- Interesting approach, very good. What if we already have implemented something similar in one of the variables (sort of)?
Would that make you more relaxed about voting and votes? :-)

Without knowing what that variable was and how it interfaces with the rest of the algorithm, it's not possible to make an informed judgement.  I wouldn't expect you to make all the variables and their weighting public.  That's part of your proprietary program.  So in the end, it all comes down to each individual's previous experience, level of trust in others and tolerance of risk.  The same things that should be considered when playing the stock market.

Since I haven't really taken a good look at your site and it's goals, what market(s) are you really targeting ... Swedish, Nordic, all of the EU or anyone, anywhere.  And what types of images do you envision would best meet your target market's needs ... travel scenics, people, isolations, business, European only, or ???  I know what market microstock addresses and what needs macrostock fills.  I assume midstock is the grey area where these other two overlap; but, more specifically, what market need does it directly address and how does MP intend to meet that need?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: heyoka on October 21, 2007, 19:47
Hi Suvakov,

what is the minimum size for images? Couldn't find anything about this on your site. I see the smallest unit in your search is L, but I need more precise data, exact pixels please. Thank you.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 21, 2007, 20:32
Suvakov

This is one of those situations where it is best to let others go ahead (the second mouse gets the cheese).


Anonymous

First time i heard that one;-) Otherwise "Second up is the first looser", "Winner takes it all" and "First is all - second is nothing" seem to be more popular. Everybody know who first discovered America - few know who came second. Anyway there is really no rush my friend you can join whenever you feel ready, we plan to stay up for a long time. Its always a pleasure to discuss with you.

Best regards

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 21, 2007, 20:35
Hi Suvakov,

what is the minimum size for images? Couldn't find anything about this on your site. I see the smallest unit in your search is L, but I need more precise data, exact pixels please. Thank you.

Hi Heyoka,

min 3000 pix in optional dimension (min 4 Mp).
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 21, 2007, 21:00
"What market need does it directly address and how does MP intend to meet that need?"

Our goal is world wide domination. If you queote me on that and insinuating that i am insane i will just deny that i have said it and blame it as a translation error ;-)

Seriosly, we are trying to acchive cultural, geographical and commercial multitude but with the national connection. Thats why we encourage our members to tag the images with their native languge as well as english. If the customer wants images from their geographical vicinity they can limit the search results by using their own language in the search.

Firstly MP is concentrating to surplie customers with images as illustrations and  material for ads in magazines and other printed media as well as to the webb industry. As we evolve we hope to surplie images that the macro sites traditionally surplies to customers worldwide.
Clips will inevitably also be a category in the future.

Naturally we have plans how to evolve and market the site but that is  something that i will not go into on a public forum nor do i discuss the issue outside the board room.

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 21, 2007, 21:11
Seriously leaf, have not Mostphotos.com earned the privilege to have a own topic as the other agencies? I mean, the Mostphoto thread have the most replies and it is the 3:rd most read thread under Up and Comming New Sites ;-)

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on October 22, 2007, 02:47
Seriously leaf, have not Mostphotos.com earned the privilege to have a own topic as the other agencies? I mean, the Mostphoto thread have the most replies and it is the 3:rd most read thread under Up and Comming New Sites ;-)

Best regards

well no actually.  The qualifying factor for giving a site it's own thread is to have numerous topics about the site (or at least more than one).  If all the sites only had one topic, we wouldn't need different boards at all.  Featurepics who did not have their own board - until just now - had 13 topics about them.

But i was nice and gave mostphotos a board anyhow :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 22, 2007, 03:10
Thank you leaf, that was indeed very nice of you.
I will try even harder to answer and contribute  with what i can even harder.

BTW - i love your Spell Check - it is the best thing since sliced bread and power tools, and it really prevents me from embarrass myself with hundreds of spelling errors ;-)

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: anonymous on October 22, 2007, 08:12
Suvakov,

Is there a way to "mask" or hide your real name on the site? It currently shows my username followed by my real name.

Thx
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 23, 2007, 01:06
Dear anonymous,

no there is no way of doing that at this time. When photographers submit images to agencies the photographers
real identity is sometimes hidden and this is bad many photographers think. The majority of the photographers that
we have interviewed feel that that when selling images for as little as a dollar or two, and furthermore depriving their name
ant thereby also the cred for their images is just not acceptable.
Mostphotos agrees and have no intentions of wrongfully take credit for the individual photographers images.
That is why the real name with nicks is displayed along with any images.

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Ziva_K on October 23, 2007, 07:08
Hi, I just registered in your site.  A problem, where you read terms and conditions, and can’t go back, persist, as Clivia already pointed out.

But before starting to upload my images I would just like to know, if there is something to give a new contributors a push, or help in some way, or will my images just start with the smallest rate (and appear way down on search) until somebody sees and rates them ?
I also have a comment about rating images.
You might consider votes from contributors to be only informative, and votes from buyers could be the ones which counts for rating, and even those votes could be pondered with how many images buyers would bought. In my opinion it would decrease “revenge effect”. Anyway I’m not exactly a great fan of ratings anyway.

I hope you could understand what I mean, because English is not my first language (nor second  :P) too.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 23, 2007, 08:10
Ziva,

How often do you think a buyer would spend his time rating an image?  I only received two comments from buyers in DT, one of them was for a request image.

This discussion really reminds me of SP.  Using members to work (in a way) as inspectors is not going to work, as it doesn't in SP.  In the past, ratings were not anonymous, and everyone who was there then said that this either turned into friends high rating friends or in revenge ratings.  In SP images for rating are presented randomly and unidentified; for images you choose to see you can only leave a comment.

I insist that MostPhotos should use a portfolio review for new members (giving a link to an existing portfolio or uploading sample images). Use only keywords, description and title for a sorting by relevance.  Forget ratings/comments, or use them only as a feedback to the photographer, even unseen to others.  Forget having the site as a learning place.  This is business.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 23, 2007, 09:38
Hi, I just registered in your site.  A problem, where you read terms and conditions, and can’t go back, persist, as Clivia already pointed out.

But before starting to upload my images I would just like to know, if there is something to give a new contributors a push, or help in some way, or will my images just start with the smallest rate (and appear way down on search) until somebody sees and rates them ?
I also have a comment about rating images.
You might consider votes from contributors to be only informative, and votes from buyers could be the ones which counts for rating, and even those votes could be pondered with how many images buyers would bought. In my opinion it would decrease “revenge effect”. Anyway I’m not exactly a great fan of ratings anyway.

I hope you could understand what I mean, because English is not my first language (nor second  :P) too.


Ziva_K:
There is absolutely no problem with your English it is perfect to med :-)
Secondly - the problem you and Clivia describe (i think) due to that maby you clicked the "go back" button on your webbclient when you finished reading the User Agreement?? I tried it myself by closing the User Agreement window by clicking x . If pressing the "go back" arrow/button at this stage the side will reload and therefore clearing any text inputs.
However, this will not be a problem in a very near future because we are introducing a new upgraded layout soon and the register process will be easier and faster.

Regarding your suggestion about buyer raters, i totally agree with madelaide. Buyers have zero interest in rating images, they just don't have the time. Further more we don't let them even see the ratings or comments because of the risk of missunderstandings. If a image for example got a comment like "Nice color but i would preffered the color even more saturated and the focus on the eye instead of the nosetip" the customer understood it like there was something wrong with the image and continued the search for another image. Even as there was nothing really wrong with the image.
Therefore we removed the possibility for customers to see comments and ratings. And that works fine.

If there was a "push"- every new contributer would also get a push and therefore this feature would be useless ;-)
Yes - theoretically they will start low, but if they are good they will be uprated a lot, lot faster and maybe sold before
your images even get reviewed and accepted/rejected by the other agencies!!!
And a sale would lift your score more than comments or ratings.

The main variables for the search is mainly; key words, name, description! If we don't have sales, comments , ratings (and some secret ones) all images would have the same "rating" and therefore it would be impossible to show hundreds of images at the same time!? The only thing that diverts us from reviewer agencies is that the average rating of your individual image is not determined by a reviewer but by 10, 50, 100 or thousends of people. Anyway - overtime the rating usually look pretty accurate (IMOHO)

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 23, 2007, 10:33
I insist that MostPhotos should use a portfolio review for new members (giving a link to an existing portfolio or uploading sample images). Use only keywords, description and title for a sorting by relevance.  Forget ratings/comments, or use them only as a feedback to the photographer, even unseen to others.  Forget having the site as a learning place. This is business

MostPhotos will not use a portfolio review for new members (giving a link to an existing portfolio or uploading sample images) for many reasons, but mainly beccause it is not compatible with our Web 2.0 vision.
In short: If we would change our business strategy and change to the way you insist, (reffering to SP and other sites), rejecting amateurs and so on - what will separate us from all the other micro stockers? What USP do you recomend to us?

Best regards

Suvakov

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Ziva_K on October 23, 2007, 11:18
Ziva,

How often do you think a buyer would spend his time rating an image?  I only received two comments from buyers in DT, one of them was for a request image.




Well I don't, know, but if they would manage to motivate them some way, their votes would sure be more credible in my opinion. But if I think again, maybe this all rating thing wont be so bad, if I won't step on somebodies toe somehow...  ;)


Suvakov,
I will certainly try your site and I'm uploading as we speak.
I wish you great success.

Regards
Živa
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 23, 2007, 12:23
In short: If we would change our business strategy and change to the way you insist, (reffering to SP and other sites), rejecting amateurs and so on - what will separate us from all the other micro stockers? What USP do you recomend to us?

Suvakov,

I return you the question: if you are not going to be selective with the submissions, how do you intend to make a midstock site succeed against the abundant microstock market?  I can see people paying more if the portfolio is very good and requiring less time to find a good image among maybe a dozen images instead of a hundred. 

I'm sorry, I'm no businesswoman, and I don't follow your strategy.  I'm not saying to reject amateurs - I'm an amateur also - but to be selective, to accept people who can show they are able to produce good images.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 23, 2007, 12:29
Well I don't, know, but if they would manage to motivate them some way, their votes would sure be more credible in my opinion.

Sure they would matter more, I only think they seldom take their time to give us a feedback.  Not by disdain, they just don't have the time. As I said, in DT I got a thank you (for a request) and a comment saying how the image would be used (though I wasn't able to find it).  In SP buyers have an optional field to say how they intend to use the image.  I never had that answered in the images I sold, but some people have.  The only other form of buyer's feedback I had was having images credited when used - a neat demonstration of appreciation, I think.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: pattie on October 23, 2007, 15:18
I joined your site a few days ago and really liked the interface...uploading is a breeze...love the overall design...there are a lot of great things going for it.  However, I don't have a good first impression of the rating system.  As soon as I uploaded a batch of images, a single user went through and rated every one of them 1,2 or 3 with no comments on any.  Now, I know I'm no Ansel Adams, but some of these pics have sold over 500 times, so they must be useable.  It is very discouraging and unwelcoming.  Sure, it's only one person, but that's all it takes to make you feel badly.  If the feedback were going to help me in some way, that would be great, but since I have no idea what the objections are, I will just slink away with my tail between my legs and my head hanging lowwwww.....
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: GeoPappas on October 23, 2007, 15:43
One of the things that hasn't been mentioned about a rating system is that most users will rate your image for "artistic content" and not for "saleability".  In other words, images with beautiful landscapes and sunsets will get high ratings, even though those types of images really don't sell well as stock.  And plain isolated images will get low scores even thought they might sell fantastically as stock.

Something to think about...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 04:00
If searching a image with search words like "Sunrise, sundown, sky, cloud" hits will certainly get high artistic ratings. It is in the words nature and it is usually the image the buyer want when typing these kind of search words. However im not so sure when searching for example a "banana"  that artistic bananas will get higher ratings than a well lit, plain isolated banana?
We hope to insert a chapter about the importance of salesability over artistic content in our upcomming "Crash course for Stock photographers". If you check tru some images on MP you will certainly find comments like "Nice picture but not very comercial" showing that numerous members have a "sales over artistic" aligment already - but i agree that MP must be very clear on this , now and in the future.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 04:02
Pattie:

Mail me your nick over MP email - i would like to see a couple of details regarding your images, please.

Thanks.

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: null on October 24, 2007, 04:25
Everybody know who first discovered America - few know who came second.

Oh yeah? Anybody heard of Leif Ericson? He was the first. Amerigo Vespuci was the next one. So why it's called "America" and not "Ericsonia"?

Actually the first ones to discover America were North Siberians crossing the street to Alaska, when there was still a land bridge, near the end of the IV-th glacial. They'r better known as "Indians". So why isn't America called "India" then? ;-)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 09:29
Ahh Boowww - i just caught a glimse of the new upcoming pagewiew and layout... I just cant wait to see it in action.
It will be released including smaller preview, more powerful watermarks, and a easy to understand rate bar.... (oh yes - the rating is still there) ED (editorial mark), easier and faster registration and some more things....

Flemish:
"Although there have been numerous attempts over the decades to show Viking presence in United States, such as fanciful translations of mysterious stone carvings, or supposed European traits in some Native-American tribes, there has been no evidence accepted by the professional archaeological community" from Wikipedia.
Amerigo luck was that he made sure to record the discovery and return home to tell about it ;-)
The indians where named "indians" by the explorers because they thought that they have found a new route to India, when later discovered they did not  - the name of the locals stayed "indians" like a sticky thread ;-)

Oh - I'm i off topic now? In that case forgive me.

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 13:58
Suvakov, Is there a way to "mask" or hide your real name on the site? It currently shows my username followed by my real name.
Thx

Anonumous:
I just heard some great news (for you) througt the grape wine tonight! The new improved design will have a optional "real name mask"-function when implemented soon. Booaaww - who could guess;-) Gongrats!

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 14:17
madelaide:

Did i ever tell you that you can "block" users that you find non serious from rating your images?
That is so you as a individual can neutralize offenders of the User Agreement if you encounter them before the admins do or before the system reacts.
Just because we are refereed as "the democratic site" it does not mean that we let terrorist run around and attack our "citizens". Like all democracies we have defensive weapons too  ;-)

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ason on October 24, 2007, 14:28
hmm... that blocking thing from members ..yeahh I know that...If you do a wote...thats not ok for the photographer...they just block you, Im sorry but  I did realy believed in MP in the beginning...but...I think its a club (or how do u say in english), if its gonna be a good/serious microstock...members have to be more openminded...and just stop to "put up" friends in raiting....But you never know things can change...and democracies ...heavy words in cyberspace ...so difficult to believe for me....

So I love this rewiers who get me hedache, make me improve my imagies...
/lena
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 16:19
It is optional, ason - i have never blocked anyone in my life - not even people that have given me 1 when others rated the image a 9 or 10 (this was before we changed the rating system and a 1 really had a big, bad impact on the index).
Why is democracies in cyberspace so hard to belive in for you, Lena? Have you had any bad experienses with democracies?

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ason on October 24, 2007, 16:22
experienses with democracies?

just on MP Suvakov....;)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 16:29
I do not believe you ;-) Tell me about your bad experience, please.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on October 24, 2007, 16:34
Did i ever tell you that you can "block" users that you find non serious from rating your images?

Suvakov,

Can't this lead to another problem, that is, blocking people who give accurate feedback but a low rating?

I'm sorry to be so insistent in this, but as I said my experience in SP is how ineffective this is as a quality control.  In a perfect world people would rate each other and accept valid critique in order to make the site (therefore potential sales) better.  What I see there in reality is people (not all, but some) uploading and keeping online images without a minimum quality.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 24, 2007, 16:43
No - If ones images really are crap you will not get good ratings automatically by blocking bad ratings. One will simply not get any ratings , comments, clicks or sales on your images at all - therefore considered by the system as not intresting to viewers - in facto - bad images. After some time the blocked members get unblocked and it all starts over again - with one exception - your starting MP index just got lowered for all your other images that you upload - in other words - no gain only pain -  for trying to punish relevant ratings.

Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on October 25, 2007, 10:58
i like mostphoto really, but i hate the rating-system! It would be better, if a user have to leave a comment, when he rates. So a lot of members give me low votes without a comment and without a reason.

I have a lot of Pictures there and mostphoto put a link to my portfolio on the starting page - thank you for that :-)

I hope we will good work together and i really really hope that some members will be more fair in the future.

Regards yvonne
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 25, 2007, 12:20
We tried that in Beta mode - over eight months ago but it only resulted in that almost nobody voted at all - and the few that voted only commented "Nice", "Good" and "Wow" (Not very helpfull!) Todays system is much better in every way and will be even more effective as the site grows.

Hopfully members will pick up and comment more  - and it is important that photographers lead the way and not overreacting if voted low by a individual or two. If voted low by many - maby it is important to reevaluate the image and maby delete it too, if constantly accumulating low ratings over time?

MP TIP of TODAY!
By constantly monitoring your portfolio adding good and deleting bad images your
over all status will rise and resulting in a higher starting index in opposite to members
that refuse to accept low scores and the majority opinion.

Trying to "check out the system" by mixing good with bad images or withholding your best images and first submitting inferior images below your normal standard will regrettably lower your startindex and your overall MP index for your whole portfolio.

We are nice guys but we are not kidding - we are no less serious about our business then you pros are about your images. Don't waste time bobbing the system - we do not accept it.

And for the members that insist of uploading low quality material we just lower their start index to zero sinking them to the bottom of the bin. Once submerged they will have a hard time surfacing again.


Best regards
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on October 25, 2007, 16:44
Trying to "check out the system" by mixing good with bad images

????

why i have to upload bad pictures :-))))

i understand what you mean and i will live with your system, these 3-4 members who dont like my, why i told him somethink abaut copyrights... thats not my problem.

lets them upload winny pooh and other copyright market... i only warn them.... that was only friendly.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: dbvirago on October 25, 2007, 20:47
Been meaning to post on the site, but by tomorrow, I will forget. Around 9pm or so EDT, the site becomes unreachable for some period of time. I don't know how long it lasts, or what time zone the site is in. The server seems to be up, but I can't access the site.

Is this schedule maintenance, or is something else going on?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 26, 2007, 00:23
dbvirago:

No - the interrupt is not scheduled in any way.
I personally became aware of the problem the night between Sun and Mon (GMT) and i informed our admin. Since then we have installed monitoring software and contacted the server service administrators and they are looking into the problems right now.
Will post when we have solved the problem.

Thank you for bringing the problems to my attention

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 26, 2007, 00:27
xeniaII:

"The mixing issue" was in no way intended to you personally!
I know you would never upload inferior images intentionally :D

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on October 26, 2007, 02:20
When is the new watermark going to be done?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 26, 2007, 02:33
By the end of of next week (at the latest). The new improved watermark is due to be implemented
togheter with the new server that is scheduled Thusday 10/30.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: fotoxalia on October 27, 2007, 04:55
Finally MP must think once again about quality control.
Browsing the images you can find too many pics that not for 25 Euro but even for free they seems toooo expensive.
Nice site, midstock prices, but less quallity images than microstocks...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on October 28, 2007, 17:39
@fotoxalia you are right.. there are "some" very badly pictures... this is normal when no one control the upload. I think that the owner MUST sometimes delete pictures.. free community thats a good thinking but some photographers really dont think about quality, perhaps they dont know what a good picture is?

I like the idea of a free comunity... really...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on October 30, 2007, 06:06
Today i bumped in to a customer on my way to the office.

The first thing he said was that he visits the site on regular bases just to scan the images.
-"It is starting to look real good now and and the images are comming in fast now" he said.
Yes, we are getting some nice images now ( i said "some" having the "bad images" discussions on my mind).
The customer answered: -" It is not just "some" - the most part of them are really good and usable - some are even to good"
I asked him: -" How can  a image be to good?"
Well, he said: "Some images are just to perfect, to fixed - we want good images but with that special reality feeling"
- Okey, what ever makes you happy, i answered and smiled.

Let the every day customer decide if the image is good enough or not - all we can do is to  continue to upload
the best of our work. Customers repeat the same message over and over again: Let us decide.
And we let them (for now) =)

//R

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: fotoxalia on October 30, 2007, 19:15
Dear Suvakov,
in every agency i sign with im giving a time-credit 3-5 months to see how things are going.
If any agency generate a reasonable number of sales in this period of time im staying with it, elsewhere just going away.
MP is a new agency so it has my credit of time at the moment!
Wish you good luck.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on October 31, 2007, 03:35
Dear Suvakov,
in every agency i sign with im giving a time-credit 3-5 months to see how things are going.
If any agency generate a reasonable number of sales in this period of time im staying with it, elsewhere just going away.
MP is a new agency so it has my credit of time at the moment!
Wish you good luck.

I would say that 3-5 months is a little too tight time schedule to see any large improvement in sales when a site is so recently released. The amount of images are still too small (even though they almost seem to double by the day now) Sales have started to happen but I would wait at least six months before I would make any judgements. We need on the other hand a lot less sales from MP to beat the other micros when it comes to cash return.
I don't expect Snapvillage to produce anything significant in the next 3-5 months either but it might be a winner over a longer period of time.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: fotoxalia on October 31, 2007, 08:44
you are right moori, 6 months is a reasonable period of time.
But i mean the time im in a agency and not the time it's in business.
English is not my native language...
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 02, 2007, 10:13
Fotoxalia:
I understand that you, just like me, sometime can feel restless and demanding truth of concept as fast as possible. But i mean that to make a professional judgement its best to consider a few more variables than just how long time you have been a member/contributor to a agency. Time is one factor, how long the company have been operating, management, sales, press and sales are other important factors to.
I feel that at least 12 months is a valid period - and even longer if the "vibe" is right.
What difference have just time in the big picture (;-)
I can understand if one would stop contributing to a site that has shown no sales during a long period of time but i don't understand if one choose to delete images and close accounts if the sales have been slow.
I mean, the work have already been done - so why not just let them bee? The only thing that would make me closing a account and deleting all images would be if the site did not respect my work and rights, acting non professional to me or other member - then it is very understandable.

//R
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on November 06, 2007, 03:25
I like the new watermark.  I am more tempted to join now.  I did notice that when I do a search, I have to wait for all the page to load before clicking on a thumbnail.  If I click on one before the page has loaded, I just get the image alone on the page.  The site was slow when I checked it just now and this was a problem.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 06, 2007, 03:56
Good notice, sharpshot.
Let us see what we can do about it and why its arranged that way.

Thanks!

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on November 06, 2007, 04:30
Some of the functions on the site are really sloooooow at the moment. =) The new design and functions came up yesterday and they are busy getting rid of all the initial bugs related to that. I asked in the site forum about the speed issues and the "tekkies" replied that all new hardware is not in place yet. They are installing new servers/hardware today to speed everything up and also add a new optimized search.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 06, 2007, 05:18
Sharpshot:
Mike confirmed that this side was up for redesign now - the problem will be fixed with the redesign soon.

Thanks for your comment - from all of us at Mostphotos.com

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on November 06, 2007, 15:32
I joined today.  6 uploaded so far.  I found it easy to upload and the site looks great.  Nice to have another European site to upload to.

http://mostphotos.com/member.php?memberid=2390
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on November 06, 2007, 15:41
How do I use the FTP?  I can't see any information.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 06, 2007, 15:46
I´ll help you ...

1. Click the "Chat" icon - 4:th from the left / upper left corner.
2. Now press my name
3. Our private chat is opened...
4. Im waiting for you to guide you through..

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 06, 2007, 15:54
or...

1. Log in
2. Go to "Portfolio"
3. Choose "Upload images"
4. Choose "FTP Upload" (under the search field)
5. Read the instructions (or take the trailer turtorial)
6. Use the information to log in to the FTP (you need a FTP client) of your choise
7. Select folder
8. Upload

Hepp... you did it  ;D

done
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on November 06, 2007, 16:55
I couldn't see the FTP link.  It was dark gray on a black background.  Found it now.  Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on November 06, 2007, 19:30
i go online today to mostphoto to upload some pictures.. i dont like the new system
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on November 08, 2007, 17:58
i think i dont like the system but selling my picture today i have an download that bring me 12,5 euro... great
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on November 08, 2007, 18:36
Congrats on the sale XeniaII! =) I am not surprised at all. You have loads and loads of great model shots.
Things seems to start moving now. I've read more posts about sales. Hopefully my christmas themed images will start to move soon too. :)

What is it that you don't like about the new system?
I think it is good that they divided the voting into artistic and commerical.
I haven't gotten used to new new design yet and it seems a little slow and buggy at the moment, but they say that they are working on it.
I sure looks nice at least, with the fancy reflections and all :)

By the way, Where do you find all your models XeniaII? Do you hire them or is it friends and family?
I still haven't really gotten brave enough to ask strangers to model for microstock.....

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on November 08, 2007, 18:41
my moori: is when i go to my uploadet picutures..  i cant see them.. i have hundrets of pictures there, which i have to work on to let them be online... but i cant see them.. but thats no probelm.. i spoke to the webmaster he said that it would be done
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Smithore on November 20, 2007, 10:43
First sale for me also today!!
12,5€  better than Lucky Oliver in five months!!!
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on November 20, 2007, 11:26
I also had another sale yesterday. Not a "high rater" this time either :)
€ 12,5 royalty.
I hope this is a start of a daily trend. :)

http://www.mostphotos.com/moori
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 30, 2007, 09:04
moori my friend, prepare for action!:

Two major news agencies and one Publishing group is testing the Mostphotos site - even started to download images and this is even not regulated in the agreement! Looks that they just cant resist the
2 for 1 offer they get altrough Dec 24:th =)

First impressions from the new customers:
Love the idea - love the prices - 60 K image bank is acceptable if uploading continue with 500-1000 images/day (as now). The last comment is really a big change for Mostphotos because uptill now the most common comment was "to little images".

Oh what beautiful Friday this is ,
the personal business call finally starts to pay off =) and photographers all over the world prefer Euro instead of declining dollars =(

Have a nice weekend you all...


//Suvakov

Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on November 30, 2007, 11:18
i have also sell a picture yesterday and one picture today on mostphotos... so this month i sold 3 pictures... i think thats very great for a new agency.

regards
Yvonne
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Smithore on November 30, 2007, 14:28
Excellent !!! Xenia (II?) !!!
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Suvakov on November 30, 2007, 17:43
... and i got 12 Euros from the referrals alone today =)

//Suvakov
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: XeniaII on November 30, 2007, 17:52
lol i really dont know if i have a referal on this page... wait i will see... :-) wow i have 3 but they dont have sold anythink till today. My opinion most photos is on the right way... the users there are friendly... you can talk if you want.. you dont have to when you dont want... nice community... a little bit swedish style .. often they dont understand my german humor.. but its ok for me.. i love this side
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on December 01, 2007, 11:07
the users there are friendly... you can talk if you want.. you dont have to when you dont want... nice community... a little bit swedish style .. often they dont understand my German humor.. but its ok for me.. i love this side


Haha that sound like us Swedes.
We don't get German jokes  ??? ;D
We also like to be a little quiet and gentle and try not to stand out from the crowd too much  :D
One of the basic "unwritten cultural rules" in Sweden is quite interesting. It is called "jantelagen" and it is basically:
"It is ok to be good at something, but it is not ok to brag about it. You should never think/say that you are better or more successful than someone else. The best thing to be is average, like everone else."
It is amazing we win things in the Olympics with that attitude  ::)

Since I started this thread with my ref.link, I have had quite a few referrals signing up referring to my nick.
That is great!! , but what is even more great is that I see in my statistics that quite a few of these also started to sell images.


and here is that link again.... http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277 (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?referenceid=277)   ::)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rosta on December 01, 2007, 17:27
I love this site too, even if my user name is Swedish for toast  ;D
rosta
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: mjp on January 09, 2008, 12:36
Just uploaded part of my portfolio over there (1100 images). Easy upload system is big plus and I was able to upload images quite fast. Now I'm waiting sales... (I know it will take time, but I hope get nice amount of EURO(s) over there during this year :) .)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on January 09, 2008, 13:17
I was dissapointed with no sales after a few months but I just checked and had my first sale for 12.5 euros with this one http://mostphotos.com/view.php?imgid=59633&page=comments

Will start uploading again now.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: rene on January 10, 2008, 06:18
I've started to upload there. All my images price is 50 euros. I've tried to change it (I think 50 € is too much) but I cannot. 
Any idea ?
Thanks
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on January 10, 2008, 08:16
They should be 25 euros if they are non-exclusive.  I don't think that is too much for any image.  If a buyer wants it, they will pay for it.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on January 10, 2008, 12:17
I've started to upload there. All my images price is 50 euros. I've tried to change it (I think 50 € is too much) but I cannot. 
Any idea ?
Thanks

Hmm that sounds strange....
The royalty free images have a fixed price at 25 Euro at Most Photos.
You must have ticked the "exclusive box" when  you uploaded the image. The price is then by default 50 Euro or whatever you fill in the price field.
"Exclusive" at Most Photos means that you can only sell the image there and it can only be sold once. Therefore you should set the price way higher than 50 Euro if you choose that option.
I think the fixed 25 euro is just about he right price for a royalty free image. Due to the "no reviewer approach" buyers will find many unique images on MP that they will not find on the big 5 micros and that is something many buyers really appretiate according to the site staff.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: MicrostockExp on January 16, 2008, 07:20
Just got my first sale at MP, 12.5 euros quite a lot compared to the other websites!
Here is the picture below:

(http://www.mostphotos.com/cachedimages/watermarks/94358.jpg)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mellimage on January 16, 2008, 09:20
ldambies - I looked through parts of your portfolio on mostphotos and saw that one of your pictures looked very similar to one of mine. Either this was typical Edinburgh weather or we must have been at the same place at around the same time.

This is my picture:
(http://homepages.wmich.edu/~m0kintz/Images/200801160001.jpg)

And this is yours at mostphotos:
(http://www.mostphotos.com/cachedimages/watermarks/94425.jpg)

Found this coincidence quite funny... .  ;D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: MicrostockExp on January 16, 2008, 09:30
Mellimage, that is a typical Scottish weather I guess:) If I remember correctly it was taken from a roof of the museum of Scotland and if the EXIF is right it was the 11 of April 2004... what about you
L
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mellimage on January 16, 2008, 10:12
Typical Scottish Weather it is ...

mine was taken May 28, 2007 - but apparently from the roof of the same museum.  :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ChasingMoments on January 16, 2008, 10:13
Ok, so as step 1 I decided to register and look around. Guess what? I filled out a form with info/login/etcetera, then went to login... and I can't. The system doesn't recognize me, and then I tried to reset the password, entered my email address, got a message that says that an email has been sent... no email. Hello? Help?

Hehe.. well, that might be it for me & MP for now :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on January 16, 2008, 11:50
Ok, so as step 1 I decided to register and look around. Guess what? I filled out a form with info/login/etcetera, then went to login... and I can't. The system doesn't recognize me, and then I tried to reset the password, entered my email address, got a message that says that an email has been sent... no email. Hello? Help?

Hehe.. well, that might be it for me & MP for now :)

Try an e-mail to support.
They are usually reply pretty fast.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ParisEye on January 16, 2008, 12:07
I just registerd there without any problem. I am glad to find a European site ready to pay decently the contributors.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on January 16, 2008, 15:29
The royalty free images have a fixed price at 25 Euro at Most Photos.

What are the license restrictions compared to microstock? 

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on January 16, 2008, 15:47
The royalty free images have a fixed price at 25 Euro at Most Photos.


What are the license restrictions compared to microstock? 

Regards,
Adelaide


Here is a link to the terms of use for buyers:
http://www.mostphotos.com/termsofusebuyers.php

I think it is similar to microstock?
That is something I have been wondering about too but haven't been bothered to look into it.
Im gonna send a mail to the staff and maybe they will come here and explain it to people like me who fall asleep when reading legal texts :)

I'm gonna
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: mitzrah on January 17, 2008, 01:43
Hold your horses there fellas...

Check this out: http://www.mostphotos.com/termsofusebuyers.php
Don't mind the numerous typos and lack of checking or proofreading.

3. IMAGES offered as EXCLUSIVE

for the duration of the agreement, unless agreed otherwise. The IMAGE may not be advertised, presented or sold to other buyers once the IMAGE has been sold on Mosthotos.com.  

3.1. An IMAGE advertised as EXCLUSIVE can only be sold once,   The buyer have exclusive rights to the IMAGE and the photographer waves the right to sell the IMAGE again. After a transfer of the rights to an IMAGE offered as EXCLUSIVE, MEMBER has limited right to expose the IMAGE in public such as non-commercial exhibits where the rules do not conflict with this LICENSE. The IMAGE may not be advertised, presented or sold to other buyers once the IMAGE has been sold on Mosthotos.com. An exclusive IMAGE cannot be resold by a USER and the photographer will always retain the copyright to the IMAGE and the right to exhibitions and non-commercial use up to five (5) copys. Reselling of any IMAGES purchased on Mostphotos.com is prohibited.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 03:17
wow, what do the esclusive images sell for?  Like how many euro?  It should be pretty high if it is a one time sale.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Jack Schiffer on January 17, 2008, 07:33
I think once your exclusive you can name your price
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Arian on January 17, 2008, 07:56
Hello, my name is Arian and I am the project manager on Mostphotos.
It glads me to see all the disscussions here and I am more that happy to answer all the questions and woundrings.

Yes it is correct as Jack stated. On the exclusive photos you can set the price yourself. And it is also true that the exclusive ones only can be sold once. That is a feature that the photobuyers has requested.

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 08:05
I wonder if all sellers are aware of this as I have seen a number of images being sold for 50 euro for exclusive right to the image.  Seems quite low, when a RF license is 25 Euro.  I guess it is the sellers choice though, as long as they know the deal.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: GeoPappas on January 17, 2008, 08:06
Arian:

Just a piece of advice.

I would suggest that you rename your term from "exclusive" to something else, since the term "exclusive" is universally used across the other stock sites to mean something completely different.  On almost every other site, "exclusive" just means that the image (or artist) is exclusive with the site.  The image can be sold over and over again.

FYI: DT uses "sell the rights".  LO uses "buyout".
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Arian on January 17, 2008, 08:43
Hello!
I know what you mean GeoPappas.
Maybee find a better name for it. An easy name that both sellers and buyers can understand and identify fast. I can take more suggestions to alternatives to the term "exclusive".


I wonder if all sellers are aware of this as I have seen a number of images being sold for 50 euro for exclusive right to the image.  Seems quite low, when a RF license is 25 Euro.  I guess it is the sellers choice though, as long as they know the deal.

Lets also have in mind that there are some sites where people are giving photos away for free, no names mentioned. But I think that the term "Exclusive" obviously speaks for it self.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 08:49
Yeah, i agree people are giving things away for free so they are obiviously free to do with the pictures as they please.  My point was just that i wondered if people missunderstood what you were meaning with 'exclusive'

I think Geopappas said it better than me.  But that is what i was trying to get at.... the term of having an image as exclusive is used on every stock site, but it doesn't mean selling the rights to the photo
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Arian on January 17, 2008, 09:17
Ok!

I think the confusion is because the word "Exclusive" has two different meanings depending on whether you are a photo buyer or seller.
 

The term is on Mostphotos mainly towards the buyers perspective. I think that when a buyer discovers the term exclusive on the site he/she automatically relates to that if he/her buys that particular photo, then it is only he/she in the world that has it.

But anyways I am very very open for more suggestions to other terms that we can replace "Exclusive" with.

Arian
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on January 17, 2008, 15:15
Ok!

I think the confusion is because the word "Exclusive" has two different meanings depending on whether you are a photo buyer or seller.
 

The term is on Mostphotos mainly towards the buyers perspective. I think that when a buyer discovers the term exclusive on the site he/she automatically relates to that if he/her buys that particular photo, then it is only he/she in the world that has it.

But anyways I am very very open for more suggestions to other terms that we can replace "Exclusive" with.

Arian

I agree that "exclusive" is a bad term to use since sites like Istock and others has branded the term as something completely different. It is bound to confuse photographers (and some buyers) Cannot come up with a good catchy alternative though...hmmm
Something like "sell the rights" but I guess that one is already taken ;)

I would also suggest to raise the default setting on that license when you upload a picture. DT has $350 as default and that sum raises pretty fast to much more if the images sells a few times. I know it doesn't matter since you can set your own price but I think it is more fair the the newbies who maybe doesn't know how much a sell the rights price should be. 50 Euro is definitely too low to start with for a exclusive image that you cannot sell again.

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 15:20
how about

'exclusive rights'
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on January 17, 2008, 15:20
Has anyone written them about it?  Maybe the could simply change it to "exclusive buyout" (isn't that how some site names it?) or "exclusive rights".

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 15:40
Has anyone written them about it?  Maybe the could simply change it to "exclusive buyout" (isn't that how some site names it?) or "exclusive rights".

Regards,
Adelaide

hmm... did you read the posts in this thread? ;)  Arian- the project manager for most photos has made a few posts and introduced himself.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: swedstock on January 17, 2008, 16:06
Maybe the could simply change it to "exclusive buyout"
Regards,
Adelaide

I just thought the same thing.
Good thinking batman! :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: madelaide on January 17, 2008, 16:08
hmm... did you read the posts in this thread? ;)  Arian- the project manager for most photos has made a few posts and introduced himself.

I must have skipped that one, sorry!

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: leaf on January 17, 2008, 16:45
Maybe the could simply change it to "exclusive buyout"
Regards,
Adelaide

I just thought the same thing.
Good thinking batman! :)

yeah, exclusive buyout sounds better than exclusive rights.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Arian on January 18, 2008, 02:56
yeas I like it. I vote for "Exclusive buyout" .
I will change the name if nobody else has anything more to add or say regarding this.

I am a traditional photographer, and to be honest I haven't much stock experience my self. Me and some of my friends here in Sweden started the MP project when we discovered that more and more of our customers had start to buy photos from the Internet. Mostly the site is built from the ideas of the members.

By this I would like to say that if you guys have more suggestions to changes, I am more than happy to listen.


Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ChasingMoments on January 20, 2008, 15:13
Ok, so as step 1 I decided to register and look around. Guess what? I filled out a form with info/login/etcetera, then went to login... and I can't. The system doesn't recognize me, and then I tried to reset the password, entered my email address, got a message that says that an email has been sent... no email. Hello? Help?

Hehe.. well, that might be it for me & MP for now :)

Try an e-mail to support.
They are usually reply pretty fast.

All right, let me follow up (with some frustration that I ever took time to look into MP at all...). I did follow your advice and send them an email; next day I received a response asking me to confirm the registration email, which I did. Nothing since then. Nada. Just tried to login &/or reset password. Not working. Come on, for a new & up coming site one of the keys to success it to make it as contributor-friendly as possible... and now I've wasted time. Won't be going back.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Arian on January 21, 2008, 03:39
To:  ChasingMoments

Hello!
It is a kind of weird situation though MP through a day has a lot of new members. But I have now emailed you a new pass and I personally tested it and it worked.

Hope it works.
Plz let me know
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ChasingMoments on January 24, 2008, 16:35
To:  ChasingMoments

Hello!
It is a kind of weird situation though MP through a day has a lot of new members. But I have now emailed you a new pass and I personally tested it and it worked.

Hope it works.
Plz let me know

Yay, issue resolved! Glitch in the matrix - my pointer must have jumped and I typed a few extra characters in the user name...!

Thank you for communicating with me & following up on this - nice to get a a personal approach!

I'm on and will be uploading. "Good sale'ing".
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: mwp1969 on February 04, 2008, 17:04
I joined yesterday and gave credit to Leaf from a post of his elsewhere on MSG that drove me to their site. Then I found this thread.

The website has a top-notch "look and feel" to it and it is super fast to upload :)

Finally it is a site where we get to be the judge as to whether or not a certain image is marketable or not.

I see a great future from this site.

Please feel free to sign-up from my referral link: http://mostphotos.com/index.php?mwp1969=3065 (http://mostphotos.com/index.php?mwp1969=3065)

I do see a trend evolving towards "midstock" agencies in the very near future. Sites like MP, FP and others are busy trying to carve out a niche for themselves while everyone else is debating whether or not subscription works for themselves.

After researching MP (I am a Market and Competitive Analyst)
I am very excited with this site :)

Best of luck to everyone and happy selling !

Mark
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: zsooofija on December 22, 2012, 09:55
Hello everyone,

Does anybody know if there's a possibility to opt out subscription sales on mostphotos? I am just not comfortable to see my vector files being downloaded with €0.11 commission, it seems way too low.
Thanks!

 
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: luissantos84 on December 22, 2012, 10:02
Hello everyone,

Does anybody know if there's a possibility to opt out subscription sales on mostphotos? I am just not comfortable to see my vector files being downloaded with €0.11 commission, it seems way too low.
Thanks!


I guess you are talking about the last option, take a look

http://www.mostphotos.com/settings#site (http://www.mostphotos.com/settings#site)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: zsooofija on December 22, 2012, 10:50
Thank you Luis, you are a genius, this is exactly what I was looking for  ;D .
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Microstock Posts on December 22, 2012, 12:22
Thank you Luis, you are a genius,

 :o

Ask him something more difficult.  ;D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: luissantos84 on December 22, 2012, 12:24
Thank you Luis, you are a genius,

 :o

Ask him something more difficult.  ;D

don't! ;D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: ibogdan on January 25, 2013, 07:18
Are such low commissions normal for large images?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Microbius on January 25, 2013, 07:54
For subs yes. I suggest you go and disable them in your settings as there sub payments are way too low.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mantis on January 25, 2013, 08:03
Anyone actually making any money with them? Those subs are horrible. If anyone knows, what is the composition of subs to credit sales? Is it warped?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sharpshot on January 25, 2013, 08:15
Don't forget their in euros, so most of them are comparable to other subs sites.  I did get one subs commission for over $30 but it looks like buyers are using more of their quota now.  Don't get many non-subs sales anymore.  I wouldn't bother with them if I was just starting out but as I've spent time uploading and the referrals add a few cents to those low subs, I'll stay for now.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: 08stock08 on January 25, 2013, 08:54
I have been with MP for over 1 year now. The figures are not very much encouraging. I am thinking of quitting MP. The biggest issue is, you can upload what ever you wish. Nobody bothers whether there is any quality in those images. This is like crowd sourcing the images. Too low sale. I still stand on zero. I took jump out of pond and got with the premium agencies now. I am quite happy there.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: sdeva on January 25, 2013, 09:43

Please forgive my bad English - remember I'm Swedish  ;)


//R

Its called 'Swinglish' I think.. at least thats what someone posted on twitter recently  ;D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: CD123 on January 25, 2013, 15:56
I use this site purely for off site storage purpose, as you can download all your images again at full resolution if need be. Nice play area to get comments on your work and talk to people.

Been with them for about 8 months.  I have been in the top 10 "active members" for a month or so (the top 3 guys just "like" every picture uploaded and that is why they always stay there) and a lot of my images featured in the most popular section. After all of that I have a total of 2 sales to my name.

Upload, enjoy the chats if you like, make some buddies, forget about making money.  ;) 
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mostphotos Support on March 21, 2013, 10:26
I have been with MP for over 1 year now. The figures are not very much encouraging. I am thinking of quitting MP. The biggest issue is, you can upload what ever you wish. Nobody bothers whether there is any quality in those images. This is like crowd sourcing the images. Too low sale. I still stand on zero. I took jump out of pond and got with the premium agencies now. I am quite happy there.


Hi friends!

Here are some tips to sell more of your photos.
Other tips and manuals can be found in our Help Center at the bottom of our page.
http://help.mostphotos.com (http://help.mostphotos.com)

1. Build your self a large portfolio with commercial viable images. The photographers who have good sales have often large portfolios.
 
2. Publish images with good quality. It's possible to zoom in to 100% and when a buyer does that you don't want them to see a noisy image.
 
3. To provide relevant keywords are very important. Mostphotos search engine keeps track of keywords relevance.

Apart from developing and improving the page in general we are also working on a new ranking system that will give photos with potential bigger exposure, not only photos that has proven to sell.

If you ever have any questions or issues, send us an email at [email protected] and we will help you asap.

Best Regards,
Lina @ Mostphotos
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: m@m on March 21, 2013, 10:59
3. To provide relevant keywords are very important. Mostphotos search engine keeps track of keywords relevance.[/color]


Best Regards,
Lina @ Mostphotos
[/quote]

Well, I don't know what you guys consider relevant to a search. Example: if you search for Citizenship or immigration the first thing you see is 10's if not more photos of the same model with different flags from around the world in the first few pages from the same photographer. IMO, I don't see the connection between the same model holding different flags and the search...Lina, care to elaborate on the preference of these photos and its photographer?
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Veneratio on March 21, 2013, 11:26
I have been with MP for over 1 year now. The figures are not very much encouraging. I am thinking of quitting MP. The biggest issue is, you can upload what ever you wish. Nobody bothers whether there is any quality in those images. This is like crowd sourcing the images. Too low sale. I still stand on zero. I took jump out of pond and got with the premium agencies now. I am quite happy there.


Hi friends!

Here are some tips to sell more of your photos.
Other tips and manuals can be found in our Help Center at the bottom of our page.
[url]http://help.mostphotos.com[/url] ([url]http://help.mostphotos.com[/url])

1. Build your self a large portfolio with commercial viable images. The photographers who have good sales have often large portfolios.
 
2. Publish images with good quality. It's possible to zoom in to 100% and when a buyer does that you don't want them to see a noisy image.
 
3. To provide relevant keywords are very important. Mostphotos search engine keeps track of keywords relevance.

Apart from developing and improving the page in general we are also working on a new ranking system that will give photos with potential bigger exposure, not only photos that has proven to sell.

If you ever have any questions or issues, send us an email at [email protected] and we will help you asap.

Best Regards,
Lina @ Mostphotos


How large is large? 500, 1000, 5000?
Who determines commercially viable? As the person who took my pictures I think they are all commercially viable, otherwise I would not upload them.
Is it not down to your reveiwers regarding quality? If you accept then does that not say the quality is good enough?
Be interesting to see how you determine an image has more potential than another.
In my experience in business, sales tend to increase with your marketing spend - care to share your spend over last three years and total sales value so we can see any relation between the two?
But what you are basically saying is have a large, high quality portfolio full of high commerical value images and we might see some sales?

Goddamn, why didn't I think of that before - keep that quiet otherwise everyone will want to know that secret!!!

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: stockastic on March 21, 2013, 11:29
Been with them for about 8 months.  I have been in the top 10 "active members" for a month or so (the top 3 guys just "like" every picture uploaded and that is why they always stay there) and a lot of my images featured in the most popular section. After all of that I have a total of 2 sales to my name.

So it's another DIY,  "we manage the servers, you do the marketing", site like FAA.    :)
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mostphotos Support on March 22, 2013, 04:26
Keyword relevance
Part I: Add many and relevant descriptive keywords so that when buyers search for a specific theme/motif that your image could match, your photo shows up. You need to almost try to foresee which different campaigns the buyers could use your photo in and what words they will search for. (Many of you know this)
Part II: "Our search engine keeps track of keyword relevance". What this means is that if you post a picture of a zebra and tag it "zebra" "animal" "africa" and "bicycle", our search engine is being taught to disregard of the tag that isn't relevant (bicycle). (This is an ongoing progress).

High resolution
We accept photos that are minimum 5 mpx but we recommend that your photos have a higher resolution than that.

Marketing
Just as with the webpage, functions, customer-and technical support and everything else, we are constantly working on improving. We have found new investors and just in the last couple of months we have hired a new marketing director, several sales accountants to bring in more and more buyers and have a done a lot of work in SEO and social media. And more is to come, we are putting all our focus on marketing and sales.

If you would like specific feedback, have any issues at all or any ideas on what we can do to increase sales or improve the page, please send us an e-mail to [email protected].

Best Regards,
Lina @ Mostphotos

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: fotografer on March 22, 2013, 04:46
@mostphotos support
From what I am reading in this thread it seems that where your images come in the search position is largely based on how many people 'like' your photo.  Is that still true? As I will never contribute to a site where my images can be  pushed back behind inferior images just because  a group of people are forming ratings gangs.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mostphotos Support on March 22, 2013, 07:34
@mostphotos support
From what I am reading in this thread it seems that where your images come in the search position is largely based on how many people 'like' your photo.  Is that still true? As I will never contribute to a site where my images can be  pushed back behind inferior images just because  a group of people are forming ratings gangs.

Well, when you go to "explore" and look at "popular contributions", that is true.
However, that is not how the buyers look for images. They search for keywords and then it is the images that have been sold and viewed the most that end up first in the search results.

We are working on a new formula that will take more factors into consideration but it will never be likes that determine what comes up first in the buyers' searches.

I hope that answers your question!

Lina @ Mostphotos
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: fotografer on March 22, 2013, 08:43
@mostphotos support
From what I am reading in this thread it seems that where your images come in the search position is largely based on how many people 'like' your photo.  Is that still true? As I will never contribute to a site where my images can be  pushed back behind inferior images just because  a group of people are forming ratings gangs.

Well, when you go to "explore" and look at "popular contributions", that is true.
However, that is not how the buyers look for images. They search for keywords and then it is the images that have been sold and viewed the most that end up first in the search results.

We are working on a new formula that will take more factors into consideration but it will never be likes that determine what comes up first in the buyers' searches.

I hope that answers your question!

Lina @ Mostphotos
OK thank you.  That sounds more interesting then. :D
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: stockastic on March 22, 2013, 11:14
... it is the images that have been sold and viewed the most that end up first in the search results.

This ends up being the bottom line just about everywhere, for example FAA as well, and of course the micros.  And any retailer, online or bricks-and-mortar, usually ends up giving the prime shelf space to what's sold in the past.   

Obviously this leads around in a circle, but I just don't think sellers realize the extent to which that is true.  In reality, some powerful and sophisticated math and even 'game theory' would be necessary to fully understand the dynamics. My non-mathematical instincts tell me it's a downward spiral, as past sales receive too much weight,  causing sellers' offerings to lag further and further behind changing market tastes. 

At some point any successful retailer has to include his own judgements as to quality and what's "good".   Automated crowd-sourcing can't do it all.   How to do that, with millions of photos? I don't know. But someone will figure out a way.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mantis on March 23, 2013, 06:36

Well, when you go to "explore" and look at "popular contributions", that is true.
However, that is not how the buyers look for images. They search for keywords and then it is the images that have been sold and viewed the most that end up first in the search results.

Lina @ Mostphotos
[/quote]

If this is true then why even have the "popular contributor" feature?  It's misleading for the reasons stated, not based on merit.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: m@m on March 23, 2013, 09:04

Well, when you go to "explore" and look at "popular contributions", that is true.
However, that is not how the buyers look for images. They search for keywords and then it is the images that have been sold and viewed the most that end up first in the search results.

Lina @ Mostphotos

If this is true then why even have the "popular contributor" feature?  It's misleading for the reasons stated, not based on merit.
[/quote]

+1
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: stockastic on March 23, 2013, 10:10
Maybe the basic problem with using past sales for search ranking is that it's gone on too long.   When microstock was new, it made some sense.  But the years go by,and  stuff that that sold well in the beginning gets so well established it can never be dislodged.  New content is buried deeper and deeper and has less and less of a chance.   Agencies might disagree, and claim their search ranking formulas are more sophisticated than that and do give new material a chance, but I doubt they've really done the  analysis and are just guessing.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Mostphotos Support on March 25, 2013, 04:24
Hi guys.

The "popular contribution" is mainly for you as contributors, like a photography community, and is a very appreciated feature amongst most of our photographers.

Regarding the search results we are working on a new formula that will take more factors into consideration, not only past sales but also for example "potential". This is, as some of you pointed out above, a tricky formula. We hope to find a good balance between rightfully rewarding contributors that sell well but also give exposure to photographers that have not sold so well yet. Apart from the search enginge formula we are also working on some other ways for you all to get more exposure.

We will keep you posted on this!

Lina @ Mostphotos

Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: cobalt on November 06, 2013, 05:44
Have you considered adding public light boxes, where contributors and buyers can collect their favourite images? You´ll have to limit adding one´s own images to maybe 30 or 40% so that people don´t use them for spam, but it is very interesting to follow light boxes and selections. And it is very helpful for buyers, if someone knows a lot about medicine, or wine etc…then following their selections in a dedicated lightbox is useful.

The way the community you have can find the gems in the collection and recommend them to each other. You can also allow ratings and comments on public galleries/lightboxes.

Your website was recommended to me recently and I like sites that have active communities. So I will contribute and see what you do.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Red Dove on December 19, 2013, 08:08
Just when I thought it was going to be a zero year a sale comes along....for 0.18 Euros

I should reach payout by 2068 - which means I'll be able to make a down payment on a new air freshener for my flying car. Luvlly Jubbly.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: cobalt on December 19, 2013, 10:24
I´ve only been there since November with around 200 files,but I already have 5 sales/7.67 euros. I´m quite impressed.

I really like their interface and that files go live immediately. They no longer show visible downloads, so life will be more difficult for copy cats and I hope one day they get themselves connected to stockperformer as well.

However, it is very European agency, might not work for everyone if you can´t supply localised content.
Title: Re: Most photos - new "midstock" site!
Post by: Curvabezier on December 19, 2013, 13:55
Not a single sale in 5 months with half portfolio, +400 images. I´m not expecting a lot in the future.