Author Topic: really starting to hate your "ratings" system (Read 15154 times)

anonymous · « **on:** February 22, 2008, 00:39 »

you have a tardo blasting my stuff with "1"'s, blocking any of my feedback, and their pi$$ing in the Wheaties has got me 1 step from pulling my work from your site and saying F it. Your rating system is sooooooooooooooo lame and damages what would otherwise be a good site. Yeah I know, "you have a system that takes care of the abusers" but it really doesn't and it's turning into a train wreck.

Kill the stupid rating system and run a legit micro for god's sake.

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2008, 00:44 »

anonymous..... what site are you talking about, bro?

=tom

Pixart · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:25 »

MostPhotos. That site that won't load in Central Canada.

Clivia · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2008, 03:06 »

I had an idiot doing the same to me. I commented that one of his pictures was out of focus, and he took real offense. (It was very out of focus!) He worked his way through my portfolio giving everything 1's and 2's. You can go to his profile page, and under 'Options' you can select to block him from rating you images.

ason · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2008, 03:36 »

I also hate this ratingsystem, it mad me so mad 5 month ago so I killed my account at MP. Some people got really mad if you try to help with logos, out of focus, bad scannings...
I started to work wih MP again for 1 month ago, I had my first dl yesterday and I dont read the comments or ratings anymore...
/lena

madelaide · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2008, 17:22 »

As I said long ago when MP admin was here, the rating system is a source of discontentment, like it is in SP.

Regards,
Adelaide

Arian · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2008, 16:34 »

Ok!
Now I have followed this thread and therefor I decide to break a news that we so far has kept in secret on www.mostphotos.com.

Mostphotos has a more complex and intelligent backbone that is not showing on the outside. I will not go in to the technical details, but for example if you behave bad on the site, voting low on pictures that does not deserve it, it will affect your trustworthiness. So what I want to say is that if you in someway behave badly, the site will notice that and your reliability will automatically go down and next time your word will be less worth.
So in other words by behaving badly you just destroy for your self.

What is MostPhotos index (MPI)?
MPI is used to separate "good" pictures from "bad" pictures. On a ordinary Stock photo site it is the administrators/moderators or similar on the site that approves if a picture can be uploaded or not. On MostPhotos we (the users) has the possibility to impact this.

The MPI is mainly used by the search engine to give the buyers the "best" pictures that matches their search criteria first.

Exactly how the calculation of MPI works is a business secret for MostPhotos, what is known is this:

* The MPI is partly built up around the votes, comments and views your picture has.
* The MPI also looks on the persons that voted, commented and viewed the photo.
* The clicks that a photo gets has a very big impact on the MPI.
* The way buyers act on the site has a large effect on the MPI.

In other words, the ratings is a small piece of the MPI.

Pixart · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2008, 17:11 »

Quote from: Arian on February 27, 2008, 16:34

So what I want to say is that if you in someway behave badly, the site will notice that and your reliability will automatically go down and next time your word will be less worth.
So in other words by behaving badly you just destroy for your self.

How can you possibly know if someone is behaving badly? I thought MP doesn't rate photos itself? Does a script determine the bad guys? And... If someone does gives a bad rating to a bad photo they are not behaving badly. And isn't the difference between a bad and a good photo personal taste? Your post here still does not clear much up.

Oh, and by the way, out of all the sites out there - I cannot even visit MostPhotos. People post photos and I cannot open them (well, I can - but it takes several minutes). And I'm on a pretty fast connection. Wonder how many buyers you have lost?

anonymous · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2008, 17:23 »

Quote from: Arian on February 27, 2008, 16:34

voting low on pictures that does not deserve it, it will affect your trustworthiness. So what I want to say is that if you in someway behave badly, the site will notice that and your reliability will automatically go down and next time your word will be less worth.
So in other words by behaving badly you just destroy for your self.

In other words, the ratings is a small piece of the MPI.

how do you know if a photo "deserves" a bad rating?
what . is "reliability"?
what . does "behaving badly" have to do with selling photos?

c'mon man, stop defending a flawed design. if you guys are in the business to sell photos...then sell photos and don't entertain people's vanity.

I DO like your site (still haven't sold anything but look forward to doing so) but you guys need to get over the "ratings" thing...it REALLY does not add anything to the site inspite of what you think. It is purely a source of vanity and vengance. And by the way, I have retaliated with crap votes on those that did it to me and my rating is climbing nicely...so my "behaving badly" hasn't affected me in the slightest.

run your site like pro's and not cons

Arian · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2008, 17:26 »

Hello Pixart!

If you vote a 2 on a photo that has an average of 8, then you are abviously doing something that you shouldn't and that is something that the system recognize. Mp-crew is not doing anything manually regarding the the MP-Index.

The issue with the speed is also something that we are aware of. The reason is because our servers are in Sweden and you probobly are somewhere far from us. We are at this moment looking for some investors to invest money to our site, and the first thing we will invest in are in some servers across the world. This will definitely solve the speed problem.

We have been working really hard but as you know it is darn difficult to compete with the major stock agencies since we don´t have the big bucks that they have. But we are working day in and out, concentrating on selling our members photos on our own market, scandinavia.

Arian · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2008, 17:35 »

The ratings and comments is just a small piece of the MP-index. The MP-index actually works really nice now and we are constantly tweaking it to become more and more accurate. We have two guys constantly working on the Index right now and they are doing a great job. So please have faith.

I have explained it here in this thread, where we can see an example.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php/topic,3718.0.html

Regards Arian

madelaide · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2008, 18:35 »

Quote from: Pixart on February 27, 2008, 17:11

Oh, and by the way, out of all the sites out there - I cannot even visit MostPhotos. People post photos and I cannot open them (well, I can - but it takes several minutes).

Funny, MP is not slow at all to me.

IS however is. If I click on a thumbail there, it takes 15s for the page to load, and then more 40s to get see main image. In MP, it takes 10s for the page fully load, and more 10s to upload the full size image if I click on the preview.

Regards,
Adelaide

Pixart · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2008, 19:41 »

Quote from: Arian on February 27, 2008, 17:26

Hello Pixart!

If you vote a 2 on a photo that has an average of 8, then you are abviously doing something that you shouldn't and that is something that the system recognize. Mp-crew is not doing anything manually regarding the the MP-Index.

Thanks Arian, and I'm not really attacking you here... but take the famous seagul photo for example. 20 of his buddies give it 10 for 10, and I come in and give it a 2 for effort and I am then penalized for telling the truth as I see it? (because I am obviously doing something I shouldn't).

Hmm. In other words, only rate photos if they are 10's?

Stitcherladyxx · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2008, 01:57 »

I'm on the fence with MostPhotos. If it was my only stock site, ok...I can see * around and voting. But it's not, and I just don't have time, not to mention I have kids and a life going on around me LOL This is my hobby. But it is disheartening to go there now and see a good bit of my stuff in the negatives, whether it due to someone giving negative voting or simply my lack of 'voting' affecting my MPI. I have to wonder what do potential customers see when they see a low or negative number for a rating? Are they thinking...hmmm... must be something that is better if this is so low?

The stuff I have is staying there for the time being. But I really wish the 'ratings' would be done away with. I think arranging by 'most viewed', 'newest', and 'most downloaded' is fine. But if customers are seeing the low ratings, I can't think it is doing anything wonderful for sales.

Arian · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2008, 03:57 »

Hello Pixart!
The case you are describing is not really an issue, and of that we can see proof of in our top lists. If a person with 20 friends rate up a bad photo, that photo will probobly end up in the top list. And when a bad photo will be exposed in the top list there will be thousands of other members that will rate that photo down. The only ones that will loose in this case are those 20 that gave high rates on a photo that ended up with a low average.
And like I said previously the ratings and comments has just a small part in the calculation of the index.

Hello Stitcherladyxx!
Do not worry about those low votes or bad comments. Because buyers wont see those. Only when you are logged in as a photographer you will see the hole community part of Mostphotos.
When you are logged in as a photo-buyer the environment is built to suit their needs. And buyers are not really interested to read comments and ratings, because they often has tight scheduls, they just want to come in, buy a good photo and go.

--
Regards
Arian Bahrami

rosta · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2008, 16:56 »

I am repeating myself here, I've grown tired of saying this over at the MP forums. I do not want my image placements in the match algorithims being influenced by what my "peers" think. The search placement is influenced by the MPI, the MPI is influenced by the votes received, and even worse..the more voting someone does, be that voting good, bad or indifferent, the higher their profile rating goes and the more weight their vote counts when it comes to my images. therefore all the ratings and comments, although "hidden" from the buyer directly affect whether or not my images will even be seen amid the rest.
No matter how you try to justify it, the rating system is a very poor design and should not figure into the search engines at all.

anonymous · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2008, 17:54 »

Quote from: rosta on February 28, 2008, 16:56

I am repeating myself here, I've grown tired of saying this over at the MP forums. I do not want my image placements in the match algorithims being influenced by what my "peers" think. The search placement is influenced by the MPI, the MPI is influenced by the votes received, and even worse..the more voting someone does, be that voting good, bad or indifferent, the higher their profile rating goes and the more weight their vote counts when it comes to my images. therefore all the ratings and comments, although "hidden" from the buyer directly affect whether or not my images will even be seen amid the rest.
No matter how you try to justify it, the rating system is a very poor design and should not figure into the search engines at all.

amen

madelaide · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2008, 21:44 »

Agreed. Let title, description and keywords do their job. I can accept that there is a choice for "popularity" or whatever in which ratings prevail, but default search should consider title/description/keywords only.

Regards,
Adelaide

leszek · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2008, 23:14 »

Madelaide - this is fine with me. But then - a quality inspection has to be introduced. The buyer does not have a duty to put up with images which may not meet some basic requirements. I am not a big fan of pixel peeping in order to determine whether or not there are "artifacts" present - but I honestly believe that some acceptance criteria must be at work - or the site will vanish very quickly.

jorgeinthewater · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2008, 23:44 »

???What I don't understand is why once an image has reached a certain level it continues daily to alter it's number. It's almost like the stock market one day is worth 2.50 next day 2.25. Why can an image just stay at its level or increase only. It's almost a hobby type of environment not a real business atmosphere

. I'm also getting frustrated by this rating system especially on a site with no sales for me yet. If I wanted a critique of my work I would go back to school or bring it to this site where we tend to understand each other it seems. I mean most members on this forum are very helpful to each other.

Of course I'm guilty of playing the numbers game and rating images, but it just takes too much of my time, another dud it seems going like LO for me.

swedstock · « **Reply #20 on:** February 29, 2008, 01:32 »

Remember that there is a market out there for different images. Images that is not "microperfect". There a buyers out there who wants to find different images then what they can find on every other micro. My sales so far tells me that. Im selling things there that don't sell well on the micros and it give me a commission that is way higher then all the other newcomers/lowearners (LO, albumo, canstock etc) together. MP is trying something different. If they did it like every other micro did....well....they would be like every other micro.
I am not that personally attached to my images that I can't handle some negative votes. Different people have different taste, just like buyers. I don't really see the problem....but apparently thats' just me

suziecee · « **Reply #21 on:** February 29, 2008, 06:44 »

It creates bad feeling, it's unprofessional. You only have to look in some of the sites chat today to see that. The site can still be 'different' but the rating system needs to go.

swedstock · « **Reply #22 on:** February 29, 2008, 07:20 »

Without a rating system you would need a physical reviewer to control the images, and then it wouldn't be that much different would it? I like the fact that I can control what I want to sell. It is a nice addition to the other stock sites. I was sceptical at first too, but I will not make any final judgements until I have seen the system at work for a longer period of time. So far I think it seems to work just fine, and I know they are constantly make improvements in the index system according to how buyers react to pitures and so forth. Arian has explained how complex the system is over and over again, and that votes is only a part of the whole thing, but the only thing some seems to see is some "bad votes". Does that really matter if you get images sold? To me it doesn't. I don't think it is unprofessional. It is just a new take on the "micro thing". If you don't want others to rate your work, sell elsewhere. Simple as that.

null · « **Reply #23 on:** February 29, 2008, 07:21 »

Quote from: Arian on February 27, 2008, 16:34

* The clicks that a photo gets has a very big impact on the MPI.
* The way buyers act on the site has a large effect on the MPI.

I just had a look at the most popular shot at MP. So, I added to the viewcount. It's a fantastic shot at thumbs size. I was curious and zoomed in on parts of the sky at 100%, and yap, full of jpg artifacting.

That's why you need knowledgeable reviewers instead of glorified Flickr junks. A buyer at 50Euro is entitled to top quality, not to jpg and banding artifacts that obviously came out of the cam or by saving under 8 in Photoshop.

null · « **Reply #24 on:** February 29, 2008, 07:31 »

Quote from: moori on February 29, 2008, 07:20

Without a rating system you would need a physical reviewer to control the images, and then it wouldn't be that much different would it?

Yes it would. Reviewers are trained and experienced to spot technical deficiencies, pixelation, noise, hazing, banding, jpg artifacts, isolation quality. At 50Euro, buyers are entitled to top quality.

Quote from: moori on February 29, 2008, 07:20

I like the fact that I can control what I want to sell.

That can be done with reviewers too. A site like that exists already, and it's called FeaturePics. MostPhotos was second.

Quote from: moori on February 29, 2008, 07:20

If you don't want others to rate your work, sell elsewhere. Simple as that.

MP could cancel the rating system and become a real quality Midstock site. People on this forum are probably more knowledgeable on stock than the average MP voter. They just try to help. It's as simple as that ;-)

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Author Topic: really starting to hate your "ratings" system (Read 15154 times)

anonymous

a.k.a.-tom

Pixart

Clivia

ason

madelaide

Arian

Pixart

anonymous

Arian

Arian

madelaide

Pixart

Stitcherladyxx

Arian

rosta

anonymous

madelaide

leszek

jorgeinthewater

swedstock

suziecee

swedstock

null

null

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