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Author Topic: EyeEm Market is working, first images showing at Getty now  (Read 22664 times)

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« on: May 13, 2014, 05:47 »
+2
The EyeEm Market is now working for the photographer side, and just end of last week I saw the first of my images showing up on the Getty Images site as part of the EyeEm collection.

I was asked to write down my experiences with the EyeEm market and how things work over there. In case you are interested, here is the article now: http://www.mystockphoto.org/eyeem-market-contributor-guide/


« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 06:31 »
+4
The eyeem market place is supposed to pay out 50% and I would love to be supportive of this.

But when I heard about the Getty connection I became very discouraged. Getty usually pays 20% for RF and if we share those 20% with eyeem it will be 10%...minus the exchange rate discount getty likes to take if the customer doesnt pay in dollars, so you might end up with only 8% of what the customer really paid. I am sure some designer will buy files from a photographer he or she knows, so eventually we will get real feedback of how much the artist is really earning. Maybe we get a positive surprise, who knows?

I am also worried that eyeem will not really be marketed as a sales plattform, that instead it will just be another content feeder agency for Getty. Similar to the content they took from flickr.

And if the files are available now at Getty first instead of launching the eyeem marketplace, then I do wonder how much attention and marketing will eyeem get? I would have thought that their sales plattform would be pushed first? With the files already visible on Getty, the content on eyeem will no longer be new or fresh to the overall market. What will their advantage be? 

I understand that you say well, it will all make money somehow. But for me I would really love to see eyeem at work and financially successful (for them and the artists) before their content goes elsewhere.

Also since eyem and getty are so closely connected already, i guess it is fair to assume that they will at some time be bought or merged in some way. Eyeem doesnt have the independence to really do their own thing or build up connections to Offset or other companies for example.

I do look forward to seeing their marketplace and wish them good luck with sales. Any agency that pays out 50% deserves our attention. But I also hope the majority of sales will come from them.


« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 06:37 »
0
@Cobalt: As far as i heard from EyeEm they do not plan to be another "feeder" for Getty - they will heavily market their "Market" as they told me. It also makes more sense to me.

« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 06:44 »
+4
Then why is their unique content already for sale at another agency and not on their own plattform?

It is a very strange way to start a new business.

They have some good people, I certainly wish them well. But right here, right now I am not convinced of their independence as a market place or as a business.

« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 07:08 »
0
I don't know the future either, Jasmin. But I don't like speculating about the percentages like you do. Nor speculating about potential acquisitions (which I don't even see as very likely).

I think EyeEm is not a stock agency and you can't compare it to stock agencies. It's a photo community and sharing app and service. With a market for image licenses being added soon. I think the cooperation with Getty makes sense to a certain degree, bringing in sales quicker than they could do it themselves.

On the other hand, EyeEm will be able to attract potential customers (and photographers) who never heard about the possibility to license images before.

I don't know how it is going to work out. And I won't start focusing my time only on this venture. But I think the potential is interesting enough for me to be part of it.

« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 07:14 »
0
Oh, PS: As far as I know, if I decide to license my content through EyeEm, I do not have to license them through Getty. And not all images accepted for the EyeEm market are being accepted to Getty as well. So the EyeEm Market will definitely contain more images than the EyeEm collection on Getty Images.

So, just for the record. However, I don't know percentages how many images are being accepted and how many make it to Getty or not.

« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 07:21 »
0
Oh, PS: As far as I know, if I decide to license my content through EyeEm, I do not have to license them through Getty. And not all images accepted for the EyeEm market are being accepted to Getty as well. So the EyeEm Market will definitely contain more images than the EyeEm collection on Getty Images.

For me this would make eyeem more interesting, if I could opt out of partner and distribution deals for instance. Like I said, any market place opening their doors with a 50% promise has my attention. Just on reading more about it I became really very disappointed.

I do like speculating not about percentage but about what kind of earnings might be possible and if a business model looks promising. So i opted out of dpc because it didnt make any business sense to me.

But I also agree that sometimes things just need to be tried. I just dont know if this is one of them. They are marketing that they share 50% with artists, but how will artists feel if they actually received much less than the customer paid for from their partner agency?

We will see what happens and like you say, it does not have to be anyones primary focus. But I would love to see a new 50% agency and community succeed. So I hope they will make 99% of their sales from their own plattform.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:46 by cobalt »

stocked

« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 08:06 »
+4
I don't think Cobalt is speculating if you have any doubts just buy one of your EyeEm-Pictures at Getty (smallest size 15, -) and you will see with which commission you end up. I would bet it's actually less than 10% (because you will also loose on money exchange from Euro to Dollar than back to Euro).
I did that with all sub-agencies I contributed and are selling via Getty and it was always less than 10% I would be very surprised if EyeEm got a better deal with Getty.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:09 by stocked »

stocked

« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 08:32 »
+2
Nothing against Eyeem though I wish them success with their own market-place, I just think these Partner-deals sucks in general and their only purpose is to bring the already low commission even further down. (in the case of Deposhit/Shotshop-deal to even a new low of 1%)

« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 09:14 »
+7
But I don't like speculating about the percentages like you do.

I think we have to speculate.  And ask.  To not know what you are going to receive for your licensing just seems odd to me - like I said in the Spaces thread recently.

« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 11:30 »
+3
Ive looked at several articles in German about eyeem. All articles say that the stock part of selling images to professional image buyers will be done via their cooperation with Gettyimages. But nowhere do they mention that Getty only pays 20%, which means artists in the end get 10% of what the customer pays while the agencies together pocket 90%. You just keep reading that "eyeem will share 50 % of their income" without explaining what this means.

Once the artists start doing test buys to check on their percentage, what will happen? Or is anyone believing the the artists will be happy with a 10% revenue?

http://www.chip.de/news/EyeEm-Foto-Plattform-macht-Instagram-Konkurrenz_69708057.html

"Anders bei der Kooperation mit Getty Images: Mit dem Sidekick "EyeEm Market" will das Unternehmen professionellen Bildkufern Material von Fotografen aus aller Welt bereitstellen. Diese entscheiden selbst, welche ihrer Bilder angeboten werden und sollen mit 50 Prozent an den Einnahmen beteiligt werden. "

http://www.connect.de/news/eyeem-foto-app-plattform-konkurrenz-instagram-2319891.html

http://www.swp.de/ulm/nachrichten/wirtschaft/Mit-Handy-Fotos-Geld-verdienen;art4325,2600917

http://webmagazin.de/social/EyeEm-startet-Angriff-auf-Instagram-Flickr-Co-173409

http://www.pcgames.de/Internet-Thema-34041/GNews/EyeEm-Berliner-Startup-tueftelt-an-Instagram-Konkurrenten-1120789/

etc..

The information is always the same. The sales will be done via the cooperation with Getty. And the artists can decide wether to offer files via this sales path, but this does not mean they can opt out of Getty. Gettyimages is the eyeem marketplace. This is very clear in all articles. And also explains why the images are now visible there and not on a marketplace on eyeem. I am not seeing anything in there that says eyeem is ever planning to sell stock directly without Getty.


That is why I think the "50% of all earnings" for the eyeem stock marketplace statement is misleading. I am sure people reading will misinterpret this as meaning they are going to get 50% of what the customer paid.

The articles also mention that eyeem is testing a service for large companies who need specific images for their advertising. They have done projects with Nike,Lufthansa etc...and chosen images for their advertising campaign. So far the artists have not been paid for this but in the future they will be. Sounds to me like a sort of image brief for smartphone images. Maybe this is where they will share a fair revenue of 50% directly with their artists.

In the end it is their start up and their own community. But if people discover the 10% royalty from getty and there is a community backlash, please dont complain. It is not possible to hide the real royalty rate, maybe it would be better to give clear examples of what people will earn from the start to avoid misunderstandings at a later stage.

And if it is not the artists that will discover the 10%, they can rely on their competition to do it for them...so I believe transparency and honest earnings examples are better.




« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 11:54 by cobalt »

« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 17:53 »
0
Here is another interesting statement straight from their own website (in German again)

6.March 2014

http://dl.eyeem.com/press/releases/Getty_Images_und_EyeEm_werden_Partner.pdf

They announce that eyeem images will be sold in cooperation with Getty through istock and also on the Gettyimages website as a special collection.

"Getty Images und EyeEm starten neue Foto-Kollektion
EyeEm-Fotos knnen knftig bei Getty Images lizenziert werden"

"Berlin/Seattle, 6. Mrz 2014 EyeEm, die einzigartige Community und Verkaufsplattform fr Fotografie wird knftig mit Getty Images kooperieren, dem wichtigsten Produzenten und Anbieter von visuellen Inhalten und anderen digitalen Medien der Welt. Gemeinsam wollen beide Partner ausgewhlte Bilder von EyeEm fr den Lizenzerwerb auf den Getty Images-Plattformen zugnglich machen. Die Fotos stehen knftig u.a. bei iStock by Getty Images und als mageschneiderte Kollektion auf gettyimages.com zur Verfgung.
"
...

"Dank unserer Partnerschaft mit Getty Images und dank dessen umfangreichen Vertriebsnetzwerks bekommen die Mitglieder unserer Community jetzt eine groartige Chance, mit ihrer kreativen Arbeit Geld zu verdienen."


So this is indeed going to be another feeder agency for both istock and getty.


ETA: Here is the link for the English version

http://dl.eyeem.com/press/releases/EyeEm_x_Getty_Images_Partnership_Release.pdf

"Getty Images and EyeEm partner on new crowd sourced collection
EyeEm photography to be available for licensing with Getty Images
BERLIN/SEATTLE March 6, 2014. EyeEm, the world ́s premier community and marketplace for the photographer inside all of us, is partnering with Getty Images, the world's leading creator and distributor of visual content and other digital media, to make EyeEm images available for licensing across Getty Images platforms, including on iStock by Getty Images and a bespoke collection at gettyimages.com."

"And now because of our partnership with Getty Images and their extensive distribution network, members of our community will have a great opportunity to earn revenue from their creative work."

There is also a clear explanation of their social media campaign project:

"EyeEm Marketplace. The EyeEm marketplace is for those brands, agencies and small businesses who want to find easily searchable and crowd-sourced mobile stock images of places, people and environments. Since its launch, selected brands such as Lufthansa, Redbull and Vice Magazine have set up highly curated missions to crowd source new images for their (social) marketing campaigns. The community created images were successfully sold through the EyeEm platform with a revenue share for the photographers. While some brands/marketers have already purchased photos captured by the EyeEm community, the full marketplace offering will be launched later this year."

So this is the plattform they want to market.

But for stock sales, you will definetly be opted into getty with a 50% royalty cut of whatever eyeem gets.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 18:04 by cobalt »

« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 20:23 »
+1
I just logged into EyeEm to see if there are any updates on their own marketplace.  It still says:  "EyeEm Market will launch by summer 2014. During BETA, you have the opportunity to prepare your images for sale to maximize your earning potential when it goes live."  Nothing that I could see on EyeEm's own site announcing that the Getty collection has already gone live.

Apart from all the other reasons already given, I wouldn't anyway be approving them because EyeEm/Getty (oh, and their affiliates) want minimum 6 months exclusivity.  I already have the same images up for sale at other agencies, so not going to happen.

I have a small number of iPhone images that I have put forward for the Market.  Most, but not all, of those have been "shortlisted" for the Getty collection.  So far as I can see, nothing happens to those "shortlisted" images unless and until I press the "approve" button for inclusion in the Getty collection. (There is no "disapprove" button).  But what I can't work out is, if I don't approve these images for sale on Getty, will the same images still being on the EyeEm Market when and if it launches.  The tab of reviewed images says: "Images below are ready for sale on EyeEm Market.", however, only the ones not selected for Getty have a "tick" and say "available".  The rest have a little "Getty" icon in the corner but since I won't be approving these, its not clear what happens to them.  Do they just sit in limbo perhaps?

I also can't work out how they will be found through searching.  At present, on EyeEm, you are limited to putting 4 tags.  A lot of these having nothing to do with keywords people might use commercially.

I quite like EyeEm as an occasional photo-sharing site, but I mainly post up images that are not at all "stocky".  I might just leave the small selection marked out for the Market there and see what happens when (or if) EyeEm's own Market goes live.

« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2014, 04:28 »
0
But nowhere do they mention that Getty only pays 20%, which means artists in the end get 10% of what the customer pays

I am not sure but you keeping mentioning "20%" like a fact. Do you know if it's a fact? As far as I know Getty is paying partners usually more than the 20% they pay contributing artists directly. And they still pay more for RM, don't they? So I think the 20% is the "worst case" scenario isn't it? I don't know the number.

But frankly, considering my other options, I'm not that much worried if it's 8, 10 or 12% in this case. I just see that Fotolia Instant is selling the highest resolution (!) images for 3 credits each. Should I really supply my images there just because they pay out a higher percentage of the sales price? Is the percentage really the key number you are looking at to judge what a good deal is?

I'm certainly not a big fan of Getty as you know. And it won't become my number 1 place to submit images to. But in comparison to some other options I currently have for images that are not really "mainstream microstock" anyways... it doesn't look that bad after all.

« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2014, 05:46 »
+3
Full disclaimer (as you might assume from the user name): Ill add some official EyeEm opinion here. First of all, thanks everyone for taking an unprejudiced and rather kind approach regarding our concept, its a really exciting project for all of us.

MichaelJay wrote a great blog post at newbielink:http://www.mystockphoto.org/eyeem-market-contributor-guide/ [nonactive] which explains our whole model pretty good.

@cobalt: Our own EyeEm market will be launched later this year. The Getty deal was just a precursor and prove of our concept. It gives our photographers a nice global outreach and another channel (for some of them the first ever) to sell their images. At the EyeEm market well split revenues 50/50. Re the Getty distribution deal: well share what we get from there also 50/50 with the photographers.

Everything is opt-in. So you can opt-in to license images of yours at the EyeEm market. None, just one, some, or all: your choice. And if some of these opted-in images are shortlisted for the Getty collection youll be contacted and, again, you decide if you want to license them on the Getty site or not.

@KerinF: the 6 months exclusivity is only valid for images at Getty.
Re: search - were working hard to come up with a completely new search concept soon, keywords/tags are just a fraction of the overall data.
And: uploading "images that are not at all "stocky" as you write - thats exactly the point  :) EyeEm means "real photography".
I will update you what happens to the images you wont approve for Getty distribution, I assume they keep being available at the EyeEm market.

« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 06:11 »
+6
Re the Getty distribution deal: well share what we get from there also 50/50 with the photographers.

... and what you get from there would be .... ?

« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2014, 08:41 »
+3
Hi eyeem,

thank you for getting in here. It is exciting to see a start up from Germany in the stock world.

I am glad to hear that you will also offer an additional market place where you sell direct and the artist will get a true 50% of what the customer spent.

But like I have pointed out before you are advertising that you share 50% with the artist and will have to then face up to the disappointment that this will mean only 10% royalty from sales via the getty connection. The agencies keep 90%. Unless of course you were able to negotiate a much higher rate than the usual 20% Getty pays out...but since you are a start up....

I mean Getty cancelled the flickr deal and is now sourcing "real life" images from you. From Flickr the artists were paid 15-20%. Id say there is a high probability the deal Getty has with you is even cheaper for Getty...

And in addition to that your artists will painfully discover that the high prices on the Getty website are just list prices. Getty has a lot of customers who get huge discounts, over 90% of the list price. So your artists will not just discover the 10% royalty they are getting, they will also learn about 5 dollar sales for images that are listed for several hundred dollars...and their 50 cent returns...

And then some artists might realise that if it is stock worthy content,i.e. without logos and with releases, they could have offered it elsewhere for more money...but they probably cannot move the content because once it is opted in the content is exclusive for a given time frame,no? Or can your artists offer the same content at Eyeem and at Fotolia?

I am just trying to point out potential pitfalls, or more clearly the looming internet shitstorms you are probably heading towards if artists feel they were disinformed (or not informed)

I am sure you are following what has been going on in the industry. Getty Google deal, shotshop/deposit deal and currently the dpc drama that fotolia is going through. These issues can blow up very fast very quickly, DPC apparently lost 25% of their content, over 6 million files, in a very short time.

Since you have already signed everything, you will now have to find a way to handle it when it happens.

I genuinly wish you all the best and hope I get to see you sometime at an industry event.

And most of all I hope you make 99% of your sales from your own marketplace.

Viel Erfolg! :)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 09:00 by cobalt »

Ron

« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 09:41 »
+2
Quote
Re the Getty distribution deal: well share what we get from there also 50/50 with the photographers.

50% of 20% is 10%. Its not work for free yet, but certainly not worthy of any of my images.

« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2014, 10:25 »
-2
Oh, PS: As far as I know, if I decide to license my content through EyeEm, I do not have to license them through Getty. And not all images accepted for the EyeEm market are being accepted to Getty as well. So the EyeEm Market will definitely contain more images than the EyeEm collection on Getty Images.
Exactly.

@Sean Locke Photography
Re:... and what you get from there would be .... ?
Of course, this I cant tell for business confidiality reasons.

@cobalt: thx for recommendations about pitfalls and all the good wishes. It is of course quite an undertaking to launch such a project. And we try to educate our community the best we can via our blog, faqs etc. So were totally transparent there, and as said this 6 months exclusivity is only valid when an image was opted-in and selected for the collection at GI. I cant tell you about the rev share there, though. And btw, we already met at an industry event, back when I was with iS...

« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2014, 10:30 »
+8
@Sean Locke Photography
Re:... and what you get from there would be .... ?
Of course, this I cant tell for business confidiality reasons.

Why should contributors license through your distribution at Getty if they have no idea what they are going to get?  How does this hide under "confidentiality" reasons?

Ron

« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2014, 10:57 »
+5

....this I cant tell for business confidiality reasons...

 ...were totally transparent ...

« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2014, 11:23 »
-9
@Sean Locke: I should have known back from the days at iS, its not wise to get in a discussion with you, no offense..   :)  But re Getty, I think its rather usual business practice to not publish details about such contracts. Lets see how it works out. It might not be a sales channel for you, but for others.

@Ron: Transparent about what we do, yes indeed. But re Getty: see above.
After the first sales certainly someone will come up with a new calculation and open a new thread.

But Im getting back to being creative now..   ;)

Ron

« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2014, 11:31 »
+4
Who wants 10% for their work? Who in their right mind would accept that someone else is getting 90%?

« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2014, 12:07 »
+12
@Sean Locke: I should have known back from the days at iS, its not wise to get in a discussion with you, no offense..   :)  But re Getty, I think its rather usual business practice to not publish details about such contracts. Lets see how it works out. It might not be a sales channel for you, but for others.

How can I know if it's a sales channel for me without knowing how I am being compensated?

« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2014, 13:40 »
+2
And btw, we already met at an industry event, back when I was with iS...

Ok, so maybe when you attach a name to your alias I will know more ;)

Like I said, best of luck. I am just trying to point out what I have seen can happen again and again if artist expectations are not properly managed. With good and clear upfront information, disasters are easy to avoid.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 13:43 by cobalt »


 

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