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Author Topic: new site stocktal  (Read 49207 times)

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ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2014, 13:25 »
-1
Regarding our USP, we have several, but the main one is that buyers and sellers can talk to each other. Unheard of in the industry.
Not historically unheard of. On iS, buyers can and do enter the forums, and previously they could write to each other via the Creative Network system (before they decided that wasted too much bandwidth.  ::))

Added: Or, indeed, via old-fashioned email.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 14:36 by ShadySue »


Valo

« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2014, 13:39 »
0
Shutterstock as well, forum and PMs, Canstockphoto too, forum, Fotolia, forum.

Basically, 5 agencies have this feature, not much left of the most important USP. Kind of an indicator that they don't know the market that well, or didn't do their research. Doesn't instil a lot of trust. Sorry.

As for marketing, bring millions, otherwise, not a chance.

« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2014, 14:31 »
+1
Jack-Stocktal, welcome to msg :D
ur site looks interesting , and as said, something new in-line with Stocksy, in the good sense of aiming away from the status-quo of dropping pennies into photographers while making big bucks for themselves. so that is yet another fresh air like Canva and Stocksy.
just browse your portfolios and notice something i did not quite like
...
get 500 px free


can u pls explain this promo. hopefully this is not the direction Stocktal is aiming ..
instead u r projecting a mission to make money 70% to photographer/30% to Stocktal.

i take it , like Stocksy and Canva, u will need an invitation,
or more so, submit the first 10 like SS to be approved.
then on, it's clear - sailing and hoperfully money for everyone.
do u have a marketing mission in just Australia or is this global too?

cheers , hope u succeed, as any site that believes contributors should make money
is always welcome and i hope u will also join Canva and Stocksy in success.
gawd almighty, we really need competition to replace those penny - pinchers in the top tier;)

« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2014, 14:34 »
+6
I am sorry, but your reply is as amateurish as your site. The best way to get contributors on board is to mock them, surely. If you want to make it in this business, thick skin is a must, as critique and criticism are undoubtedly part of it.

well, personally, i think we had quite enough of "professional(s)" with the gift of political double-speak.   ,don't u think? ;)

« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 14:39 by etudiante_rapide »

« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2014, 16:13 »
0
Jack, some questions from me:

You said you support FTP, read IPTC, no categories needed... Does this mean uploading will be just sending a whole portfolio via FTP and no further clicks necessary (because that's what would be useful for a new site to attract big portfolios)?

I understand we can set our own prices. Is there a possibility that sets a default price which is then applied to all further uploads?

I don't see anything about ELs on your site. Am I right to assume the standard license covers all possible uses (products for resale, any print run) and thus essentially contains all rights that on other sites require an EL?

Thanks for answering, if the conditions are right I'm all for supporting sites that pay fair percentages...

« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2014, 17:05 »
+2
Depending on the site's approach, I think supporting a selection of new ones that appear to be (a) serious efforts and (b) reasonably funded is in our best interests. One of the newbies may take off and possibly, even when successful, offer contributors a better deal than the existing agencies.

I'll have to have a more detailed look at the site and license terms, but I did have a couple of questions based on a first quick browse:

In the blurb about applying to be a contributor, you describe the requirements for the 10 images submitted to include "Must be an original inate image directly outputed from your camera." If you mean a RAW file straight from the camera, that's a unique (not in a good way) requirement. Every image I submit has been edited, and I wouldn't consider showing anyone the straight from the camera version.

Did you just mean to say that the work has to be our own from our own equipment? Or an image no greater than the camera's native maximum size? If none of the above, what did you mean?

What is the 10% tax you charge on top of the prices shown? Who is the tax paid to and do all buyers worldwide have to pay it? No other agency I'm aware of adds tax to the image prices.

I'd echo the comments of earlier posters that discouraging people from submitting their files from a camera like mine (21mp Canon 5D Mk II) pretty much rules out submitting anything to StockTal - even though I can create smaller sizes of files with a Photoshop action, I'm just not going to do that without a very good reason - too much complexity to manage for a small new agency -  "actively discourage members constantly uploading 8, 9 or 10 mb images. Its not the business niche we are targeting."

I see a few vectors on the site, offered in a ZIP format, but nothing in the contributor quality guidelines about what format/version you accept, if you generate the preview for it. There's also nothing in the description for the buyer of what format the vector is in (it should say, perhaps something like the info shown for video clips).

Photos (top bar) is plural, not possessive; drop the apostrophe :)

I saw a picture that showed the license plate of a car parked on an Azores street - none of the agencies accept identifying information like that unless the shot is sold with an editorial license. Plus, the branding on the red bike and the car in that picture are clearly visible. Are you planning to ensure that your site doesn't have a lot of legally problematic images? Contributors should know better after they've been around the block a time or two, but you (the agency) as well as the photographer have to concern yourself with display of copyrighted and trademarked items.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2014, 17:16 »
0
What is the 10% tax you charge on top of the prices shown? Who is the tax paid to and do all buyers worldwide have to pay it? No other agency I'm aware of adds tax to the image prices.
They all add VAT to images bought in the EU, but that's a lot more than 10% and wouldn't apply in the US.

The wording is, "PAYPAL Accepted -- Prices below exclude 10% tax" Does that mean a charge for the buyer using PayPal to cover PayPal's cost? Can you call that a 'tax'? Not if Wikipedia has the correct definition: "A tax (from the Latin taxo; "rate") is a financial charge or other levy imposed upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay, or evasion of or resistance to collection, is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct or indirect taxes and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent."

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2014, 17:25 »
0
I don't see anything about ELs on your site. Am I right to assume the standard license covers all possible uses (products for resale, any print run) and thus essentially contains all rights that on other sites require an EL?

There is a customer agreement, though the subheadings are a bit odd, e.g.
"1. No Sale
The Member acknowledges and agrees that this Agreement does not effectuate any sale of the Work. Except for the rights specifically sublicensed under this Agreement, the Member shall not have any right, title or interest in or to, in any event shall have no ownership of, the Work, including any copyright and other intellectual property rights.
2. Sublicense
Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, stocktal hereby grants to the Member a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, non-transferable sublicense to use, reproduce or display the Work in an unlimited number of times in the authorized media solely for (a) personal or educational purposes and (b) in connection with the operation of a business. However, the Member shall have no right to sell or otherwise distribute the Work or any reproductions thereof to any third parties, whether alone or incorporated or together with or onto any item of merchandise or other work of authorship, in any media or format now or hereafter known. "
IMO, 'No Sale' as the first subtitle is offputting.
2 should be split, as sublicence only applies to the second half.
There is mention on the customer agreement of a specific licence, e.g.
"3(e) use, reproduce, distribute or display the Work in connection with design template applications intended for resale unless specific license is purchased"

3 (f) use, reproduce, distribute or display the Work in connection with any goods or services intended for resale or distribution which primary value lies in the work itself, including, without limitation, mugs, t-shirts, posters, greeting cards, posters or other merchandise, and any of the foregoing in print on demand or tangible or electronic formats, as applicable unless specific license is purchased;

And that will be the extended licence referred to on a file's home page above the prices. Click the button and four categories of extended licence are listed.
(wording should coincide in the buyer conditions and the file page, to avoid confusion. Not everyone speaks English as a first language.)




« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2014, 17:26 »
-1

+1 in agreement  with Jo Ann Snover ( supporting a selection of new ones that appear to be (a) serious efforts and (b) reasonably funded is in our best interests).

Jo Ann, (to answer your last statement... i found the site has both RF ; RM;  Editorials; options. )

lastly, yes me too, wonder about the 10% tax.  as usual, Ms. Snover hits every detail , bravo !!!

« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2014, 17:34 »
0

+1 in agreement  with Jo Ann Snover ( supporting a selection of new ones that appear to be (a) serious efforts and (b) reasonably funded is in our best interests).

Jo Ann, (to answer your last statement... i found the site has both RF ; RM;  Editorials; options. )

lastly, yes me too, wonder about the 10% tax.  as usual, Ms. Snover hits every detail , bravo !!!
I thought the RM option interesting but as far as I can tell RM work must be exclusive.  Which rules that out for me.

« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2014, 20:13 »
0
I thought the RM option interesting but as far as I can tell RM work must be exclusive.  Which rules that out for me.

Rights Managed just means that you are licensing specific uses, often for a specific period. Exclusivity is one of the options, but doesn't have to be there. So I might license RM an image to use in Europe for 12 months for $yy and if I want to extend that to the whole world it would be 2 x $yy. If you want it for another year in Europe, that's another $yy. For a royalty free license, for the rights granted, you have no time or geography limits. Typically exclusivity for a certain period (or even exclusive to one industry segment - so you're the only computer software company with that image) costs a lot more.

The key thing is that you have to know who has had the image and have a history of uses to be able to address future buyer requests for specific licenses. Royalty free doesn't track usages at all (which is why it's so convenient for buyers)

« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2014, 20:43 »
+1
I thought the RM option interesting but as far as I can tell RM work must be exclusive.  Which rules that out for me.

Rights Managed just means that you are licensing specific uses, often for a specific period. Exclusivity is one of the options, but doesn't have to be there. So I might license RM an image to use in Europe for 12 months for $yy and if I want to extend that to the whole world it would be 2 x $yy. If you want it for another year in Europe, that's another $yy. For a royalty free license, for the rights granted, you have no time or geography limits. Typically exclusivity for a certain period (or even exclusive to one industry segment - so you're the only computer software company with that image) costs a lot more.

The key thing is that you have to know who has had the image and have a history of uses to be able to address future buyer requests for specific licenses. Royalty free doesn't track usages at all (which is why it's so convenient for buyers)
Yes, but on Stocktal all RM must be exclusive to them unlike Alamy.  At least that is how I read the site.  I've sent an email asking for more info.

I had briefly considered uploading my RM portfolio to Stocktal but I cannot if it must be exclusive. 

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2014, 21:08 »
0
What's the point of having the clause
Restrictions 3(g) [...shall not ...] use, reproduce, distribute or display the Work (including, without limitation, by itself or in combination with any other work of authorship) in any manner that is libelous or slanderous or otherwise defamatory, obscene or indecent;
 in the buyer agreement, if the 'Talent' sign up (where talent means photographer, unusually) says,
"Indemnification BA
The seller agrees to indemnify, defend and hold harmless stocktal and its affiliates, and their respective officers, directors, employees, owners, agents, representatives, licensors and (sub)licensees (collectively, Indemnitees) from and against all claims, expenses (including attorney fees) or other liability arising from the Non-Exclusive Downloading Members breach of any of his or her representations, warranties or obligations under this Agreement, and from any and all uses of the Work, including, without limitation, any claims or actions based on infringement or violation of intellectual property rights, libel or slander or other defamation, right of privacy or false light, right of publicity or blurring or distortion or alteration whether or not intentional. stocktal shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to control the defense of any claim, action or matter subject to indemnification by the Member with counsel of its own choosing. The Member shall fully cooperate with stocktal in the defense of any such claim, action or matter.


BTW, you should decide if you want to be StockTal or stocktal, and stick with one or the other.

« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2014, 23:15 »
+1
I'm not sure I understand this one:

"Pricing
Seller may price their works at any pricepoint they see fit. Stocktal do not assess nor control the prices you sell at. However the default pricing is there for those that wish to remain within the uniform stocktal pricing model. Be aware, Stocktal may seasonally adjust our standard pricing model to reflect trends. This adjustment may affect all sbmissions, even the ones not following our default guidelines. You may need to individually adjust your prices back to your price point."


I've set up my pricing higher than micro, should I expect changes without my permission?

Btw, thanks for approval :)

Valo

« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2014, 10:07 »
0
After reading the comments from Jo Ann Snover and ShadySue, I am again convinced that I will not touch this one with a 12ft pole.

« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2014, 16:08 »
+1
i just came out of checking out the site. they have a nice setup and it looks fast and easy to upload. i like the black design and they do have some impressive work . . .and of course, some tons of similars.
i am tempted to apply with them on my first 10 and see how it works.

i know Jo Ann and Sue have pointed out some concerns. still, let's wait to see what they respond.

on my part, i checked a couple of obvious editorials , but i dont see any note saying those images are editorial only. or perharps the "talent" does not know it's supposed to be editorials, since there is in fact an option of RF, RM, editorials, free.

pricing is appealing . and sure, we all say a big chunk of nothing = nothing. then again, with all the old boys club of top tier agencies so out to f*** us up, we really should give some of these new chaps a try. Or just quit ms, altogether.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2014, 17:27 »
-1
From here, the bottom of the page link 'Talent Information' leads to a nearly blank template page with only
{TITLE}
{CONTENT}
where one might expect the actual information to be.

I clicked 'Rights Managed' and got two images, one a cat, the other the Alexander Palace. Tried again by using the tick box for rights managed and got the same two files. Are there currently only two RM files?

I'd be worried about the agreements. They read as being very amateur (switches from singular to plural and back; switches from third to second person), aren't clear and I doubt if they've been run past any decent legal department. There is no mention of which legislation the agreements are bound under.

How about these:
"The Seller acknowledges that stocktal generally does not asl for releases for the trademarks, logos or other intellectual property of other parties that may be depicted in some Works. The procuring of such releases is the responsibility of the Seller to warrant and make secure.
The Seller acknowledges that stocktal generally does not ask for releases from property owners, manufacturers or designers of commercial products such as (without limitation) automobiles, aircraft, packaged products, designer clothing, etc. that are depicted in some Works. It is generally not possible for any stock image library or artist to get blanket releases for such products, but they can often be obtained on a case-by-case basis. The procuring of such releases is the responsibility of the seller."


Why would trademark, etc owners often make releases available on a case-by-case basis for stock use? Coca cola, Disney, whoever? I don't think so. What difference would case-by-case stock use be from a blanket release? Issues I have with getting releases is precisely because they can't know how the stock will be used. People can be more than willing to give permission if they know and approve how/where the image will end up, not for stock.
(Obviously, those with previous micro experience know all about this)

And, BTW, although pedantically, photos probably should have an apostrophe, it isn't usually used and it jars.


« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2014, 23:35 »
+1
Apologize for late reply, theres much going on thats not even website related, we have our current objectives, so apart from member support which is handled competently by our VA's theres not much I can do, our priority  is selling and the marketing plan is taking shape. The front end is developing but not as quickly as we would like, its currently functional and selling which is all that matters at this stage.

Thank you shadysue and that error has been fixed. Also your legal mind is far better than mine, that stuff makes me blind, not my department. Richard Brennan took this job and it roughly looks ok to me for now. He's doing some stuff on it now after reading this thread.

I have read and understood the feedback above carefully and am surprised by what Im learning here. We seem to be approaching this with a one eyed, inflexible place. The marketing research we did back in February this year was exclusively buyer centric, without completely recognizing sellers needs.

Yes the rights managed stuff is exclusive. Cant sell images with rights managed if they for example may be purchased easily elsewhere as royalty free. Sorry about the confusion.

There is indeed quality work on the site, more than personally proud of the talents work so far.

Although there are many fair and specific questions above theres quite a lot of general comments that seem, with courteous respect, a tiny bit out of place. Will try and answer everything above and below this post in the coming days.

Valo, you're becoming my favorite poster on this thread. we need this injection of reality. But don't write us off quite yet. There's a lot of fight in this dog. :) We may pleasantly surprise.

Bottom line, confidence is high.


Valo

« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2014, 00:47 »
+1


Thank you shadysue and that error has been fixed. Also your legal mind is far better than mine, that stuff makes me blind, not my department. Richard Brennan took this job and it roughly looks ok to me for now. He's doing some stuff on it now after reading this thread.



The words legal and roughly looks ok shouldn't go together. It will be a buyer repellent to have poorly written TOS.



Valo, you're becoming my favorite poster on this thread.

Thank you, I do my best  ;)

Ubermansch

  • Im designed to think
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2014, 02:19 »
0
Hi Jack,

btw, love the name stocktal, half the reason why i initially took a look. You sound like a corporate conglomerate already. I understand its early days and that explains the many glitches I found when I started uploading myself. Your post clarified the situation.

I got a "speeding ticket" today from the curator team. Is this normal? I used the bulk upload yesterday morning and was just working through the title category keywords stuff, when i noticed a message on my first image. I cannot add more work for 3 days??

There's no set limits mentioned on the guidelines page.

Also I LOVE that you do not do subscriptions. The only people who lose out on that deal is the photographer. Is this policy going to remain true always? Or will you be inclined to introduce subscriptions? Fingers crossed the answer is NO!

Have had nothing but warm friendly contact with your team members/VA's they do good work.

« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2014, 02:39 »
+2
Quote
Also I LOVE that you do not do subscriptions. The only people who lose out on that deal is the photographer. Is this policy going to remain true always? Or will you be inclined to introduce subscriptions? Fingers crossed the answer is NO!

Good question and I always forget to ask that at first. Very important before uploading anything...

« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2014, 03:30 »
+1
Nice to have a new site that appears to be selling images but I find it almost unbelievable that you aren't accepting the big images.  You need to change that policy now.  The first rule for any new site should be to cater for all buyers and lots like to crop or do big posters or have other reasons for wanting the highest resolution possible.  Even super high definition screens need large mp images now.  There's no future in new sites that don't see where the market is heading, even video is going to 4k, 8k and probably beyond in the next decade.

I will upload some images but wont get enthusiastic until you accept high mp images.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 03:32 by sharpshot »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2014, 06:54 »
+3
Jack,
You're coming over as really clueless.

Your advert shows up at the bottom of my page here, circumventing AdBlockPlus. That's as bad as cold callers phoning me although I'm in the telephone preference scheme, and as I always tell them, that does not make you seem like a company I'd want to deal with. It may be a problem with the way the forum is set up, but most msg ads are blocked.

I can't believe that people already signed up with you despite 'talent information' being missing at the time.

As Valo said, "legal" and "roughly OK" are incompatible. One thing I've learned through being in stock is how different legislation is in different countries, particularly consumer/advertising regulations in the UK vs the US (I've often been horrifed at what the US allows in advertising). You'd better make sure your legalese stands up in each country you're targetting (that doesn't always mean 'every country in the world, this is the www' as a nice person from the ASA explained.) I'm guessing Richard  Brennan isn't qualified in international law.

"I have read and understood the feedback above carefully and am surprised by what Im learning here."    ::)  At least you're honestly clueless, unlike some agency spokespersons who come on here and dig deeper holes for themselves by trying to seem like they know what they're doing when they don't.

"Yes the rights managed stuff is exclusive. Cant sell images with rights managed if they for example may be purchased easily elsewhere as royalty free. Sorry about the confusion." That's not necessarly a sequitur. Rights managed material can be sold at different RM agencies, provided the supplier keeps tabs on what has sold where and for what and that the agency contacts the contributor before entering into any specific sale. Clearly, that involves admin costs, so fair enough if you don't want to become involved in that, but your answer wasn't really relevant to the question.

Please learn about apostrophes. I realise I'm the Typo Queen, and it's "do as I say, not as I do", but I'm not trying to persuade people to risk their income with me as a professional. Your most recent post has several missing apostrophes and at least one which isn't appropriate. NB, I don't think that getting apostrophes wrong makes you a bad person, but it looks really amateur.

Did you reply to JoAnn's question about the 10% tax?
Conversely, where do you hit EU buyers with the info that VAT (different rates for each country) is added to the visible price?

Have you explained how you're going to market your site (as well as run the business) on (12%) 22%, (sorry) of micro income?

"Although there are many fair and specific questions above theres quite a lot of general comments that seem, with courteous respect, a tiny bit out of place." That again shows your naivety in this business. Have you no idea how contributors have been treated by agencies? Have you really no idea how many new agencies have started up, probably by 'well-meaning innocents' in past few years which have gone to the wall. Usually we can spot them a mile away, and even the one I thought had a good chance of succeeding has changed its focus and modus operandi a couple of times, yet is still not bringing in enough sales to make it worthwhile for contributors. Most of these new starts have either quietly disappeared within a couple of years, or drag on, with people announcing every few months that they've had a sale there. Bear in mind that a cynic is a disappointed optimist, so you need to expect to be severely grilled. If you think questions from potential contributors are 'out of place', it perhaps hints at your attitide towards suppliers. Again, at least you're upfront about that, so kudos on the honesty.

From my pov, all this talk of 'talent' comes over as really pretentious, but that could just be me. (That's not denigrating the talent of your photographers.) Stocktal itself is a good enough name, better as a name than the 'cutsie' one. But as Juliet realised, what's in a name?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 08:36 by ShadySue »

« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2014, 07:23 »
+1
Ubermansh,

No we will not implement subscriptions. We are a lean aggressive company that will not sell out for cents in the dollar. I will leave the smoke and mirrors to the old guard. We want a fair and transparent deal for not only the talent but also for the buyers. Talking buyers into a subscription when all they want is 3 pictures is not aligned with our core mission.

If something is good, you know its good because its good all the way through. That's what we are. Good.

Sharpshot,

Tthat issue is still in motion. I won't make promises until those promises are true.

Shadysue,

The analytical nature of your comments only mark you with respect. Thank you for the indepth reflections and observations.






Valo

« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2014, 07:38 »
+2
Giving 500 images away for free is the worst type of subscription of them all. Someone writing a blog every day, can use the free images for about 19 months. Great deal.

Will you pay out the contributors when a free image is downloaded, or is that taken from the contributor earnings?


 

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