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Author Topic: The future is in the little guys- Not the big 4  (Read 14795 times)

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ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2012, 11:16 »
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One thing that worries me about smaller agencies is that they come, they go, they still have your images. What will they do with them? I was 'bitten' twice in the Bad Old Days when you sent slides to libraries, and I never got my slides back as they apparently 'disappeared'.  For all I know they might have uploaded them somewhere and are making someone else money even now.
So even if I wasn't exclusive, I wouldn't be rushing to 'support' any newstart venture.


« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2012, 11:22 »
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you and all those agencies have my support, not CC once they kicked me out

« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2012, 11:29 »
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ShadySue your approach and reasoning is solid as long as nothing happens to your preferred vendor/vendors. However, if something does happen and that vendor or vendors are no longer viable options wouldn't it be better if there were a multiple of other options? Along that line of thinking, wouldn't it also be prudent to be armed with some data as to which of these other sites might be good for your particular portfolio?

I am simply saying for those of us who aren't exclusive it isn't a bad idea to at least test some of these new guys even if it is in a limited capacity.

Lagereek

« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2012, 11:31 »
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Lagergeek, what I'm suggesting is already happening and you yourself in a small way are helping it along.

Let me explain- One could argue that the most successful contributors have a strong understanding of their particular target market. This is at least part of the reason they are so successful. I know you do... its obvious by your posts. Likewise, so do Cthoman, Yuri, and SJLocke. Each of you have significant portfolios and each one of you has chosen a different approach as to which sites you choose to market your images for you.

You seem to prefer the big 4 and the Macros- Of course you do... a large portfolio takes a long time to upload and why would you waste your time with uploading on every site that comes along- it makes no sense for you.

Yuri seems to have determined that he is better off moving his stuff (at least new stuff) to his own site exclusively.
SJLocke- prefers Istock exclusivity
And Cthoman has chosen an entirely different path by focusing on revenue per download.

4 extremely successful portfolios with 4 different approaches. I bet all 4 of you are exactly right in your decisions.

This is my point- Buyers who are looking for your niche-style-feel (call it what you want) will over time learn where they can buy those images and will shop there. You will bring success in that criteria to your chosen vendors and bring in buyers. If those buyers like your style but you don't have that particular subject they will buy from a different contributor with a similar "feeling portfolio". That contributor will also see success at that site and continue to upload thereby reenforcing the cycle. Someone looking for your industrial photos is likely to be an entirely different type of customer than someone looking to purchase one of Cory's cartoon characters. Cory's upload priority list for agencies is likely to be entirely different than yours, or Yuri's or Sean Locke's. Therefore, Cory is having a similar effect on an entirely different set of agencies with an entirely different set of buyers. The sites are evolving based on contributor success or failure and the effects of this will become more and more pronounced as we go along.

I am not suggesting that the contributor or even the agency is able to or even capable of determining the "Niches". I am simply saying that the "Niches" are being created organically already. I think it is in the best interest of most contributors to at least test the new sites and give them a chance. Especially if that contributor hasn't completely determined the best approach for his/her individual portfolio.

Of course all of this would be sped along if agencies would just start trying to adjust the "best match", delete non selling images, or mess with the pricing. Oh wait... isn't that what they are doing already?

@ Velocicarpo - I know that my list isn't really of "Niche" companies. However, they probably will be in the future or they will not make it. GL is starting to go in that direction with their GL Galleries and I would bet that the other guys are also paying attention and making adjustments to promote those types of images which ARE selling for them.

You have some very valid points indeed here! and I appreciate that!  good postings!  you really nailed when talking about the search and BMs, etc. This is one of the reasons Im sceptical, the agencies, weather big or small simply dont seem to care at all about their searches,  just happy go lucky and they certainly wouldnt throw out non selling irrelevant material, etc. Funny, isnt it after 12 years of micro, no agency has really adapted the fundamental rule of selling, i.e. " if you got it, then flaunt it"  showing the most powerful and commercial material on the premiere lets say 4, 5 pages, not one single agency.
My own personal ( as you probably know), beef with micro, is exactly that!  their searches, BMs, etc.

all the best.

« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2012, 11:58 »
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Let me explain- One could argue that the most successful contributors have a strong understanding of their particular target market. This is at least part of the reason they are so successful. I know you do... its obvious by your posts. Likewise, so do Cthoman, Yuri, and SJLocke. Each of you have significant portfolios and each one of you has chosen a different approach as to which sites you choose to market your images for you.

I guess I got dragged back into this.  ;D

While I'm not as successful as those guys (not even remotely close), I agree that you do have to have a unique game plan that works for you. Small agencies can definitely be part of that. I feel lucky to have joined Clipartof (frequent top earner for me) when they were still accepting new contributors. Also, my own site has taught me that small targeted sites can develop quickly. I also realize though that other contributors haven't had these positive experiences with smaller sites, so I can understand the skepticism.

Lagereek

« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2012, 14:39 »
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Well I supply some smaller ones as well,  Veers, DP, BS, CS, PM, GL, SF,  not as much as the big 4, but they still get good stuff, etc. Question is, how many can you cope with, before you sit there 24 hours in front of the computer?

Also I have always been a firm believer that we/us, the contributors are partly to blame,  the supply is outstripping the demand!  thats why some of us with sucessfull portfolios, so called, "hit the wall",  i.e. no matter how much you upload, no matter how good a material, you simply can not increase revenue by much, its a sort of status-quo feeling, where nothing happens.
This is a phenomena, very common to stock-photography.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 02:17 by Lagereek »

rinderart

« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2012, 16:01 »
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Well I supply some smaller ones as well,  Veers, DP, BS, CS, PM, GL, SF,  not as much as the big 4, but they still get good stuff, etc. Question is, how many can you cope with, before you sit there 24 hours in front of the computer?

Also I have always been a firm believer that we/us, the contributors are partly to blame,  the supply is outstripping the demand!  thats why some of us with sucessfull portfolios, so called, "hit the wall",  i.e. no matter how much you upload, no matter how good a material, you simply can not increase revenue by much, its a sort of staus-quo feeling, where nothing happens.
This is a phenomena, very common to stock-photography.

Totally agree 1000%

« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2012, 16:38 »
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I sometimes don't upload anything to a low earning site for a year or more.  Then one day, I'll upload lots in one batch.  It doesn't take much time when I'm working on other stuff on my computer.  I just FTP in the background.  Had some nice sales recently with Snapixel and had a payout, so I'll upload some more there now.

« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2012, 16:46 »
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I sometimes don't upload anything to a low earning site for a year or more.  Then one day, I'll upload lots in one batch.  It doesn't take much time when I'm working on other stuff on my computer.  I just FTP in the background.  Had some nice sales recently with Snapixel and had a payout, so I'll upload some more there now.


just registered at Snapixel, activated my account and as I got in I saw that... not that I have seen anything like that before but..  ::)


« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2012, 17:23 »
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Perhaps I'll delay uploading for another year :)

« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2012, 17:31 »
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several people have supported the idea that small niche sites can produce good results, but so far no one has shown any actual examples - what are the nioche ms sitwes that perform well?  1 or 2 artists selling a few 'niche' subjects isnt a niche market - it's a coincidence. 
[foto or 123, big and pond]
i dont know of any MS agency that is 'known' for their special niche

in adddition, even if there is something like that, it's an enormous jump to claim this is the way of the future.  how many artists of the thousands out there make their primary income on any of the bottom agencies?  for me, 80% of my sales $ come from 3 top agencies, [ss, dream and foto or 123] and 15% comes from another 4 [foto or 123, big, yay and pond]

all the rest are essentially worthless - maybe 1 payout a year.  it's possible one of those top agencies may someday replace SS as biggest earner, but the idea that any group of the tiny agencies could do so is vanishingly small.

finally, just how are the buyers supposed to find these niches?  when i was doing some keyword  traffic analysis, i found my images on the top search pages of google with links to ss, dream mostly, a a scattering of sites like cut, war,, etc.  so here, if someone finds my images at a minior site, it will be because they pop up high in a search, not because they're on a niche site.

« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2012, 18:47 »
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Perhaps I'll delay uploading for another year :)

actually I have registered on the normal user not as a seller.. those files aint up on searches..

« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2012, 19:56 »
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I sometimes don't upload anything to a low earning site for a year or more.  Then one day, I'll upload lots in one batch.  It doesn't take much time when I'm working on other stuff on my computer.  I just FTP in the background.  Had some nice sales recently with Snapixel and had a payout, so I'll upload some more there now.


just registered at Snapixel, activated my account and as I got in I saw that... not that I have seen anything like that before but..  ::)




That is a fnk niche alright...ROFLMFAO

Lagereek

« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2012, 02:28 »
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several people have supported the idea that small niche sites can produce good results, but so far no one has shown any actual examples - what are the nioche ms sitwes that perform well?  1 or 2 artists selling a few 'niche' subjects isnt a niche market - it's a coincidence.  
[foto or 123, big and pond]
i dont know of any MS agency that is 'known' for their special niche

in adddition, even if there is something like that, it's an enormous jump to claim this is the way of the future.  how many artists of the thousands out there make their primary income on any of the bottom agencies?  for me, 80% of my sales $ come from 3 top agencies, [ss, dream and foto or 123] and 15% comes from another 4 [foto or 123, big, yay and pond]

all the rest are essentially worthless - maybe 1 payout a year.  it's possible one of those top agencies may someday replace SS as biggest earner, but the idea that any group of the tiny agencies could do so is vanishingly small.

finally, just how are the buyers supposed to find these niches?  when i was doing some keyword  traffic analysis, i found my images on the top search pages of google with links to ss, dream mostly, a a scattering of sites like cut, war,, etc.  so here, if someone finds my images at a minior site, it will be because they pop up high in a search, not because they're on a niche site.

Yes youre right!  there arent any niched MS agencies around and if there were, the only niche that would survive, would be a lifestyle-niche. Back in the film days among the trad-agencies, there were severall, buyers in advertising used to go to Stones, Image-Bank, was pretty much associated with corporate, travel and general promotions,  Zeta, used to be animals, Art-Wolff used to be wildlife, etc, etc.
In them days, you could do extremely well with niched material, buyers were quality-concious. Today in micro, you would starve alive, buyers are normally happy with a screen-shot, no matter what kind of cr#p it is. Todays general buyer is as far away from quality thinking as we are from earning a million bucks per day. and thats faaaaaaaaaar! :)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 02:31 by Lagereek »

« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2012, 03:26 »
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The problem as I see it is that most of the micros are applying. "more of the same" issue to selecting images.  This is stupid IMO. We have reached saturation of the "stock look" image.  When will the micros take a more forward looking approach and allow  different image styles?    Alamy is one macro agency that does not filter on content, but your technical standards must be high.  And it seems that they are doing very well with this strategy.  Yes, you may not  get multiple sales every day, but the sales you do eventually get return far more than micros.

Lagereek

« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2012, 03:59 »
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Alamy, is in fact a very good example of quite a niched macro agency, by tradition, they house some of the British, Scotish, Irish, etc, landscapes, scenics from these areas and the photographers doing the best are the ones photographig UK scenics. Many great landscape photographers.
Outside that Im afraid, the ccorporate, studio, industrial, engineering or lifestyle buyers, would not go to Alamy as a first choice. Alamy is very much landscapes, travel, etc.
Good agency though, friendly people, etc.

« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2012, 06:55 »
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I've shot scores of wildflowers recently and the only possible hope of making any money out of them is if a magazine, book or postcard publisher wants a collection of images of the wildflowers of Crete, with scientific names, all shot in the same style. There's no point in my letting them grab those of the micros so they're going to Alamy and I'll keep my fingers crossed that maybe oneday somebody will want them and I'll get a decent payout. If there was a niche micro for the island of Crete it would guarantee that such work was a complete waste of time for everyone, including those supplying similar material to it and the host website itself, because of low demand.
Actually a niche macro for the island of Crete or flora of the mediterranean would be the second-best options for these images.
The best option would be to identify suitable magazines and contact them directly with a words-and-images package.
Serious wildlife/nature buyers don't deal with the micros or even the generalist macros like Alamy and Getty because so many shooting there just don't know what they're doing, shoot them wrongly, identify them wrongly and they don't want to wade through a lot of stuff to get what they want.

You're right, but I want to concentrate on photography not to spend my time writing and engaging in direct marketing. Perhaps sometime I will.

RacePhoto

« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2013, 22:40 »
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Just ran across this from 2009 and was reflecting on the "future of the little guys" question. Also got a laugh at the same time.

"Lee Torrens says:
September 23, 2009 at 10:10 pm

Interesting thoughts. I believe that if there become fewer top agencies it will become easier for new agencies to break in. I suspect this is a factor in Jons decision to keep operating BigStock as a separate business and Gettys decision (at least so far) to keep StockXpert going."


Feb. 10th 2010 iStock closes Stockxpert

Also in the news... 2010

    Getty Images introduces ThinkStockPhotos.com Getty Images recently announced a new stock photo site offering images by subscription.

    ThePhotoStorage.com is Closing "Dear Member: We regret to inform..."

    Shutterstock Reaches 10 Million Photos Shutterstock, the worlds largest stock subscription site, has reached 10 million stock photos online for sale.

    Fotomind.com will be closing on 15th April 2010 "All your photos and personal information will be permanently..."

PS Bigstock is holding #8 position in the MSG polls for earnings at about $12 dollars a month for the best contributors in the world. Is that small enough for you?

« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 08:09 »
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Just ran across this from 2009 and was reflecting on the "future of the little guys" question. Also got a laugh at the same time.

"Lee Torrens says:
September 23, 2009 at 10:10 pm

Interesting thoughts. I believe that if there become fewer top agencies it will become easier for new agencies to break in. I suspect this is a factor in Jons decision to keep operating BigStock as a separate business and Gettys decision (at least so far) to keep StockXpert going."


Feb. 10th 2010 iStock closes Stockxpert

Also in the news... 2010

    Getty Images introduces ThinkStockPhotos.com Getty Images recently announced a new stock photo site offering images by subscription.

    ThePhotoStorage.com is Closing "Dear Member: We regret to inform..."

    Shutterstock Reaches 10 Million Photos Shutterstock, the worlds largest stock subscription site, has reached 10 million stock photos online for sale.

    Fotomind.com will be closing on 15th April 2010 "All your photos and personal information will be permanently..."

PS Bigstock is holding #8 position in the MSG polls for earnings at about $12 dollars a month for the best contributors in the world. Is that small enough for you?

Race,

That's a good point.  I haven't been able to grow my monthly income there in 5 years.  Always about 75-80 bucks no matter what I do. However, the one point I might make is that if buyers by-in-large defect from Istock to SS (who owns BigStock) there may be some promotional momentum for BigStock. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 08:12 by Mantis »

« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 21:39 »
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I agree with you Chromaco, that's why we launched Macrografiks.com, a site focused on macros and still life photography.

We are still in the process of building the gallery which takes time, but things are moving and we are getting great quality content. Our main purpose is to offer high royalties to a small group of committed photographers so all of them can have good visibility and sales.

Of course sales are not flooding at the moment because we are just starting, but if things go in the right direction those who started with us will play an important roll in the future.

Best
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 21:47 by Stack »

« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 02:13 »
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I like the design, very nice:)

« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 12:50 »
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I like the idea of any new agency that isn't trying to sell all the same stuff, to all the same people.   And I like the idea of specializing in something like macro, and leaving the endless model shots to others.  Admittedly I'm biased because I do macros, and not people.  :-)

At first glance the site looks good, and some good photos are shown on it.

Anyone tested the waters here yet?


« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 13:26 »
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Interesting thread to go back and reread after about a year. Especially with Stocksy, Offset and other options coming online.

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 13:34 »
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Quote
site focused on macros and still life photography

Nice designed site. Have you got a clearer description of what sort of images you are looking for. I notice that some of the images of coins, for example, don't fit a traditional definition of macro (although I guess they are still life!)

Do you make any sales at present or is this just getting under way.

Finally, I notice the 50 image a week limit. For any contributor with an existing portfolio, it would be much better to allow a one-off FTP upload. I don't mind if you then look at 50 a week, but forcing the contributor to keep track of which image has been uploaded, and remember to go back next week with more is a bit of an annoyance!

Steve

« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 13:59 »
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I like the idea of any new agency that isn't trying to sell all the same stuff, to all the same people.   And I like the idea of specializing in something like macro, and leaving the endless model shots to others.  Admittedly I'm biased because I do macros, and not people.  :-)

At first glance the site looks good, and some good photos are shown on it.

Anyone tested the waters here yet?

On one hand we chose macros because we are passionate about it, we have worked on graphic design for years and macros are a great source for using on design projects, they are good for inspiration and for producing visuals without a specific subject(like a city image, a person, etc). On the other hand we wanted to avoid the hassle of model/property releases and of course we wanted to be specific. In my opinion trying to compete with all mayor sites selling any kind of photos is mad.

We have many contributors already. I wrote to the admin of this site to see if they can add our Stock site to the New Sites list, so I can invite contributors to post there and give feedback about it.


 

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