Author Topic: Zoonar.de (Read 29917 times)

rosta · « **Reply #25 on:** August 09, 2007, 14:09 »

I just spent some time on the site and this part of the photographer agreement kind of made me stop looking.

"II. Transfer of Rights
1. The photographer transfers to Picture Agency all (copyright) rights of use of the
picture material for every kind of commercial and/or non-commercial use. The right
to exercise accessory rights and droite de suite is also transferred."

vicu · « **Reply #26 on:** August 09, 2007, 20:50 »

Quote from: rosta on August 09, 2007, 14:09

I just spent some time on the site and this part of the photographer agreement kind of made me stop looking.

"II. Transfer of Rights
1. The photographer transfers to Picture Agency all (copyright) rights of use of the
picture material for every kind of commercial and/or non-commercial use. The right
to exercise accessory rights and droite de suite is also transferred."

Wow, that is not good. So not only does this transfer the copyright, it says they have permission to resale the "picture material" but the right to be compensated for the sale also is transferred to them. That's just crazy.

PaulW · « **Reply #27 on:** August 10, 2007, 07:27 »

Hey guys,

my name is Paul and I'm one of the Zoonar cofounders. I didn't want to interfere into this thread but the latests posts of rosta and vicu changed my mind.

It is incorrect that photographers transfer the copyright to Zoonar and that agency retains the compensation for the resale of picture material. Our company is located in Germany and therefore bound by german law. Copyright transfer is NOT allowed by german law. For those who speak german, please check this article:

newbielink:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urheberrecht [nonactive]

Maybe there is a problem with our english translation and the word "copyright" in the brackets. In the german version of the photographer agreement we've used the word "urheberrechtliche" which possibly should be translated as "copyrighted". I'm neither a lawyer nor a native english speaker, so I'll ask our translator.

The paragraph's intent is to say: you as the photographer have the copyright but to enable us to sell your pictures you have to transfer us the usage rights and even the resale right, but the transfer of rights is non-exclusive (II.3). vicu is correct that Zoonar receives the compensation for resales at first but of course the photographer receives 50-80% (depending on her/his picture amount or revenues) of this compensation, see IV. Remuneration:

"1. As compensation for all services rendered and transfer of rights owed in accordance
with this agreement, Photographer shall receive remuneration as follows:..."

Cheers,

Paul

vicu · « **Reply #28 on:** August 10, 2007, 08:42 »

Thanks for the clarification, but I agree with your suspicion that you should check with your translator. This is not the wording the most people are used to seeing, and a wise person will decide whether to agree to a contract based on what is DOES say, not what they think it WAS MEANT TO say.

xenon · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2008, 15:18 »

That particular wording in Zoonar's Terms Of Service for photographers is what had me put my application with them on hold, and what had me search on the forums here to see if others had the same concerns about the wording.

At present, their wording states that the photographer "transfers to Picture Agency all (copyright) rights of use of the picture material for every kind of commercial and/or non-commercial use". Regardless of whether it says that in the original German contract, it's clearly there in English as part of the legal contract. There's no getting around that. I would like to continue my application on the site but will refrain until they correct their wording.

Wording unchanged as of July 2008 - even though the post on here about the possible mistranslation was put on here 2007. Thinking it won't be changing anytime soon.

leaf · « **Reply #30 on:** June 16, 2009, 02:45 »

just thought I'd revive this and see if anyone is submitting here?

since they are supplying images to Polylooks perhaps it would be ok to upload and kill to birds with one stone. On the other hand, I am not sure if I need another 'new' site.

Clivia · « **Reply #31 on:** June 16, 2009, 02:57 »

I just took a look, but the fact that they use ratings puts me off. I don't want to go down that road again!

dirkr · « **Reply #32 on:** June 16, 2009, 06:08 »

The ratings are irrelevant on the site, have nothing to do with search ranking etc.

The good things about Zoonar:
- Fair commissions, from 50% up to 80% depending on sales or portfolio size.
- They let you choose between three different price scales (obviously you should not price images on other micro sites too high...)
- Very good communication with contributors (for those who do speak German take a look at www.foto-talk.de)

Sales are still few, but they claim to be in the black and have always talked about needing time to grow.

I am staying there with some hope for the future. And that they upload my port for me to polylooks is another goody...

OxfordSquare · « **Reply #33 on:** June 16, 2009, 06:29 »

Dear Mr. Krabs, welcome to this board

... for everybody who doesnt know him, he is the manager from zoonar.
Anyway, I am also from Germany (please forgive my bad english) and I know the most German stock agancies.

I dont want to write novels therefore my short version... if you want to sell stay with shutter, istock, fotolia... uploading to zoonar ist only a waste of time.

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #34 on:** June 16, 2009, 06:48 »

And as far as I know you are locked in for one year, if you sell through zoonar at polylooks

dirkr · « **Reply #35 on:** June 16, 2009, 07:08 »

Quote from: OxfordSquare on June 16, 2009, 06:29

Dear Mr. Krabs, welcome to this board ...

You're referring to me?
Then you're wrong. (little hint: you assume that one of the founders of Zoonar has his port all over the place at all the micros

)

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #36 on:** June 17, 2009, 10:42 »

Hello, my Name is Michael Krabs, one of the five zoonar owner. I just want to explain that i`m not "Dirkr". He is also not a member of our team, no part owner or employee and no friend or family member of me or from other zoonar members...

To push zoonar with fake forum postings is not what we are doing. But we are selling photos. everyday some more. And i think in 1-2 years we will sell enough to see each other again

m@m · « **Reply #37 on:** June 17, 2009, 11:09 »

I'll see you in a couple of years Mr Krabs...don't call us we'll call you.

fotorob · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2009, 11:33 »

I agree that Zoonar has little sales still, but I get about 2-3 sales a month (with over 7000 images online though).
However, I like the attitude that is giving me 80% of each sale (which usually leads to over 10 Euro per sale with me, in the "Premium" price category) and therefore I will keep upload until they can improve their sales.

Bye, Robert

puravida · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2009, 12:20 »

what attracted me to you is the headlines that you have attachments to German Telekom, or something like that. but what made me hesitate is you have commentors review and ratings. this is too flickr or amateurish. sounds too much like mostphotos.
if you get rid of the ratings by people, and just stick to being a stock site, i am sure you will get more people here interested in trying. but if you are just too much interested in being another flickr, mostphotos,etc... not so good.

willie · « **Reply #40 on:** June 30, 2009, 12:22 »

Hello,
Zoonar and Polylooks? Is this one company? If so, I went to Polylooks and it is only in Deutsch. Will you be having English soon?

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #41 on:** June 30, 2009, 13:08 »

Quote from: fotorob on June 30, 2009, 11:33

I agree that Zoonar has little sales still, but I get about 2-3 sales a month (with over 7000 images online though).
However, I like the attitude that is giving me 80% of each sale (which usually leads to over 10 Euro per sale with me, in the "Premium" price category) and therefore I will keep upload until they can improve their sales.

Bye, Robert

Wow 7000 images online and just above 30 Euros/month?! Thats a return of below 0.005 €/image/month. Thats about 0.25% of what you can make per image/month at istock with a reasonable good portfolio. So you need ~ 400 Zoonars to make the equivalent of what you can make at istock with a similar amount of images

Maybe 20% is not so bad after all as much as I dislike this low royalty..
But thanks for sharing!

puravida · « **Reply #42 on:** June 30, 2009, 15:21 »

Quote from: Freezingpictures on June 30, 2009, 13:08

Wow 7000 images online and just above 30 Euros/month?! Thats a return of below 0.005 €/image/month. Thats about 0.25% of what you can make per image/month at istock with a reasonable good portfolio. So you need ~ 400 Zoonars to make the equivalent of what you can make at istock with a similar amount of images
Maybe 20% is not so bad after all as much as I dislike this low royalty..
But thanks for sharing!

yes , i hate to sound pessimistic but Freezingpictures is correct. i have been estimating the returns to portfolio size, and even a poor performing portfolio with any of the Big5 should bring you 20% $/port size. in other words, 7000 images should earn you at worst with a Big 5 site $1400.

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #43 on:** July 01, 2009, 15:01 »

oh please don`t compare us with istock. That is not our league and not our destination.

we are a midstock agency, just two years old. the next step of zoonar is to implement a partnership control in 2-3 weeks, then we start to search global content partners like we allready have with polylooks (with good sellings for the first weeks!) but also APIS, Alamy and so far. The photographers can get up to 80% percent revenues so it will be worthwhile to distribute images about zoonar instead of other "photo-spread-agencys" (distribution orientated midstock agencys). Our concept is more like imagebroker, panthermedia, arco, blickwinkel an so far. we also have microstock-photos but we are no microstock-agency and we don`t dream to be a new "Big 6 Member" in a few years. this is not realistic.

but it is realistic that there will be a market beside the microstock market in the future. agencys will have up to 20-50 millions photos in 3-5 years. so photographers need to have some agencys with more expensive sellings, good fee shares and alternative selling ways to make the same money like today. That`s why zoonar get`s many photos this days.

Zoonar is interested for microstock-photographers who wants to check out new ways of photo distribution beside the highway.

DWL · « **Reply #44 on:** July 01, 2009, 15:53 »

Quick look, and the home page and search result pages are to cluttered for a stock imaging site, any serious stock imaging website aimed at higher paying professional buyers needs to be designed for the buyer and for a good "buyers experience", that is minimal clean and very functional no bells and whistles required.

A buyers time is valuable and they will visits a website to search and view images, but not one cluttered by advertisements, and where the thumbnails are way to small to view, the search results pages should be all about presenting larger readable thumbnails without the need to zoom every image, and not much else and these should be longest side about 170px and in 5 columns, lose the left menu that is taking up good real estate, as is the logon and advertisements, I do like the fact there is no mouse over pop-up!

In my opinion the first plan should be a site makeover from a buyers perspective, this might increase the poor reported sales.

Maybe the trick in choosing if to upload to a website is to look at the site as a buyer and see if the navigation and presentation are going to make you stay and bring you back.

This model has some of the features I like, the different image price points, and like Alamy the mixture of editorial and commercial, I may give this one a go and hope they sort the website out later and decide on the model.

David

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #45 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:58 »

We don`t like the mouse over effect and decide to offer a homepage without that nerving feature. But... if the costumers really ask for it, we will think about...

What you can`t see: Zoonar still have an special art-buyer-account. Serios editors and art-buyers will be invited to use this account. They get`s fast and bigger layouts and special buying opinions...

But important is, what i say bevor: Our intention is to spread photos not only to sell them ourself. We like to sell photos but our concept is also to put them into content-partner-distributions all over the world. So you just have to work once and gets money twice from polylooks, alamy, apis and so far.

But we also have to say truly that we are just starting this with polylooks. There are agencys with allready 50-150 partner agencys all over the world. so we still giot a long way to go...

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #46 on:** July 14, 2009, 08:12 »

Quote from: PaulW on August 10, 2007, 07:27

Hey guys,

my name is Paul and I'm one of the Zoonar cofounders. I didn't want to interfere into this thread but the latests posts of rosta and vicu changed my mind.

It is incorrect that photographers transfer the copyright to Zoonar and that agency retains the compensation for the resale of picture material. Our company is located in Germany and therefore bound by german law. Copyright transfer is NOT allowed by german law. For those who speak german, please check this article:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urheberrecht

Maybe there is a problem with our english translation and the word "copyright" in the brackets. In the german version of the photographer agreement we've used the word "urheberrechtliche" which possibly should be translated as "copyrighted". I'm neither a lawyer nor a native english speaker, so I'll ask our translator.

The paragraph's intent is to say: you as the photographer have the copyright but to enable us to sell your pictures you have to transfer us the usage rights and even the resale right, but the transfer of rights is non-exclusive (II.3). vicu is correct that Zoonar receives the compensation for resales at first but of course the photographer receives 50-80% (depending on her/his picture amount or revenues) of this compensation, see IV. Remuneration:

"1. As compensation for all services rendered and transfer of rights owed in accordance
with this agreement, Photographer shall receive remuneration as follows:..."

Cheers,

Paul

The copyright section in question was changed quite a while ago, it now says:

The photographer transfers to Picture Agency all rights of use of the picture
material for every kind of commercial and/or non-commercial use. The right to
exercise accessory rights and droite de suite is also transferred.

And please also note, that only the German language version of the contract is legally binding, the English translation is a service for our English speaking photographers, but not legally binding, it also says so in the English language version. Therefore, no copyrights were ever tranferred.

Best regards,
Michael

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #47 on:** July 14, 2009, 08:44 »

never mind

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #48 on:** July 15, 2009, 08:02 »

Picture Agency Zoonar launches new partner management

The Hamburg based picture agency Zoonar has launched a new partner management which enables photographers to control the dissemination of their pictures to content partners and partner agencies. Zoonar will intensify its efforts to find new partners at home and abroad. One special feature of the partner management is that with some partners photographers can get a commission rate of up to 80% of the fees Zoonar gets paid by the partner. That’s why it can be especially lucrative to distribute photos worldwide through Zoonar. The young picture agency aims to build a global photo distribution network within the next few years.

Michael Krabs · « **Reply #49 on:** December 23, 2009, 07:56 »

Dear Photographers,
before the year draws to a close we would like make some important announcements:

After APIS and Polylooks comes Fotofinder
As you might have already noticed, you have the possibility to release your Zoonar photos, using the Zoonar partner management, for our distribution partners Polylooks (microstock) and APIS/DFJV-Bildportal (all price levels). In January, Fotofinder will become our third content partner. Fotofinder is among the most renowned picture distribution platforms in German-speaking countries. For Fotofinder you can only release premium fotos. If you want to try out our new distribution partner you can always change the pricing model of your photos to “premium” using the Zoonar picture management.

Another important information for our customers from abroad: photos with English keywords only will get additional German keywords if the photos are released for our partners Polylooks, APIS or Fotofinder. The Zoonar team will translate the keywords, this additional service is free and can also boost your images sales on Zoonar, since we primarily sell photos in German-speaking countries. However, because the translation process is very time consuming, it can take several weeks or months until all German keywords are added.

Outlook for 2010
Zoonar increased its sales and turnover significantly in 2009. In the new year we will continue our expansion strategy and we will look for new partner agencies in Germany and abroad. Zoonar will be one of the very first picture agency in the world to offer its photographers a commission rate of up to 80% if you release your photos for our partners via Zoonar. As a result we are an especially lucrative photo broker.
We are planning a relaunch of our website in the first quarter of 2010. The site will not only be visually more pleasing, but also simpler to use and more logically structured. After the relaunch we will increase our marketing efforts.
Because of all the projects launchen and measures taken we have an optimistic outook for 2010, despite the tight situation on the market. We wish you good luck, health and success in the new year and we hope that you will stay with us!
A happy new year wishes
Your Zoonar team

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Author Topic: Zoonar.de (Read 29917 times)

rosta

vicu

PaulW

vicu

xenon

leaf

Clivia

dirkr

OxfordSquare

Freezingpictures

dirkr

Michael Krabs

m@m

fotorob

puravida

willie

Freezingpictures

puravida

Michael Krabs

DWL

Michael Krabs

Michael Krabs

Freezingpictures

Michael Krabs

Michael Krabs

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