Author Topic: How to Earn $500/Month with Stock Photography - blog post (Read 24629 times)

Brasilnut · « **on:** November 04, 2018, 06:33 »

Check out my new guest post at MyStockPhoto.org on "how to earn $500/month with stock photo".

My intention was to be as realistic as possible, using my own port and fellow contributors' as examples since we've been doing this already for a number of years. This is a tough game and increasingly difficult, so those want are starting out now or have just started recently should be aware of the challenges ahead...as well as potential rewards:

https://www.mystockphoto.org/earn-500usd-month-microstock/

Best of luck

Pauws99 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2018, 07:32 »

Decent read mostly but as I often say on my soapbox return per image on its own is not a good of measure of success. What if your image takes 1 day to process or costs $500 for the model etc?

Return on investment is the key indicator.

nobody · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2018, 07:40 »

A lot of the stuff stated in his article happen to me back in 2011. By my third year I made $7,800 thus pretty close on taking three good years to reach the $6,000 level. I wonder what percentage of newbies come in thinking they will be the next Yuri only to quit in less than six months? My guess would be at least 50% or higher!

Good read...

mindstorm · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:16 »

Good article overall. At least once a week, someone will post on one of the agency Facebook sites "I posted 28 photos last month. How come I haven't had any sales yet?" (and yes, those are the actual numbers from a post last week!). It seems that too many people are hawking micro stock as a get-rich-quick-with-your-phone-camera scheme.

When I bother to respond at all, I note the need for the long haul view with 1000's of photos. If they give a link to their existing portfolio, you can usually see it is one topic shot 28 times. In the post mentioned above, they were all snapshots of a pet chameleon.

(long route to the point... sorry...) I then suggest they go to Shutterstock and type in the type of photo they want to take. "Chameleon" is this case. Look at the images that come up. Now, how do yours (referring to the person wondering why no sales in a month) compare to those? Can you honestly say someone would pay money to buy your image when they have those others as alternatives?

Most times, when people ask "why no sales on x images in a month?" the answer is a pretty clear "not a chance in this lifetime"...

You do mention (and repeat) the need for quality. I would suggest adding that test as a well to see if what the newbie is shooting has a chance of sales.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:20 »

Proofread.

mindstorm · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:24 »

I think there is one critical issue that you give only passing notice to -- keywording. You mention that it is important, but personally I think it is every bit as important (and maybe even more so) than the photo itself.

A point I often make in FB discussions is along the lines of:

Which will sell better? A decent mousetrap that is so well known that everyone thinks of it as soon as a mouse is seen, or the very best mousetrap in the world that nobody has ever heard of?

When a buyer wants to buy an image of xxx, he uses words that he thinks of to reflect the topic. If the keywords you have on your image match what he typed, then the odds are reasonable that your image will show up for him. If your keywords do not match what he typed, then you may have the best image ever shot since the invention of the camera, but he will not see it, and thus will not buy it.

IOW, shooting a good quality image of a highly needed topic is only the start of the process, not the end. You need to spend a lot of effort on making sure that your keywords will include whatever the buyer is thinking of when he enters the search engine. Since different people will think of the same topic using different descriptors, you need to cover all those bases -- in 50 words of less...

If I were writing your article (or a follow-on to it), I would then describe the various strategies and tools for coming up with keywords that will hit that magic button.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:31 »

Quote from: nobody on November 04, 2018, 07:40

A lot of the stuff stated in his article happen to me back in 2011. By my third year I made $7,800 thus pretty close on taking three good years to reach the $6,000 level. I wonder what percentage of newbies come in thinking they will be the next Yuri only to quit in less than six months? My guess would be at least 50% or higher!

Good read...

I would be very surprised if it was less than 80% and of the remainder very few put in more than a token effort.

mindstorm · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:37 »

One last comment (well, until I think of something else anyway...) -- I like your description of the lifetime of a portfolio, and how it will deteriorate over time. Too many people do not understand that, and wonder why when they stopped adding new material, the sales started dropping off.

Between 1995 and 1999, my wife and I produced 54 instructional videos, all between 60 and 90 minutes in length. At the time, they were sold on VHS tape cassettes. Later converted to DVD. Initially, we mailed out catalogs 3 times a year to 20K-50K people per mailing, and later moved to email. Initially we sold and shipped all videos ourselves, and then Amazon took over and now produces each DVD upon being ordered, and ships to the customer, with my only current interaction being to see the royalty payment at the end of each month.

When Amazon first took over (circa 2005), we were getting around $10,000 per month. I felt I was set for life!

We never produced another video after 1999. Of course, sales declined. We still sell some every single month, but our Amazon payment is now around $100/month instead. 20 years later still getting sales, but now so small that I'm not sure I'd bother with cashing the check if it came that way (as is, goes directly into my PayPal account).

Sales of micro stock drop off for more reasons that you mention though. As you say, keywording algorithms change. And there is the issue of "those that want that type of image now already have it" after a while.

However, also, it appears that the agencies will give you a bump in the search ratings if you are a consistent supplier of salable images. They want to encourage those that produce images that actually sell, and if your past images sold well, there is a better chance that your new ones will too.

If you are a consistent supplier of salable images, then you have an edge in the search engines and all your images (both old and new) will get a boost and be more likely to show up in a search. If you stop submitting, then you lose that extra boost, and all your images (oldest and "just old") will become less likely to show up to a buyer -- and thus less likely to sell.

mindstorm · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2018, 08:42 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on November 04, 2018, 08:31

I would be very surprised if it was less than 80% and of the remainder very few put in more than a token effort.

I don't remember if I read this here or on a Facebook forum, but...

The group leader of some forum I follow said that he talked to the heads of Shutterstock, iStock and Adobe at a conference earlier this year. One of the facts that he heard repeatedly is that 85% of the images on their servers NEVER sell. Only 15% of the images comprise 100% of their sales.

Their problem, of course, is that they have no way to determine which 15% those will be. If they could figure that out, they could save a ton of money on servers (hardware and electricity and the manpower to keep them all going).

They also said (and my memory is a little more foggy here) that a similar ratio exists for the submitters, where only xxx (I think also around 15%) of the photo submitters make enough sales to reach the payout levels at least once a year.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2018, 09:08 »

Quote from: mindstorm on November 04, 2018, 08:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on November 04, 2018, 08:31
I would be very surprised if it was less than 80% and of the remainder very few put in more than a token effort.

I don't remember if I read this here or on a Facebook forum, but...

The group leader of some forum I follow said that he talked to the heads of Shutterstock, iStock and Adobe at a conference earlier this year. One of the facts that he heard repeatedly is that 85% of the images on their servers NEVER sell. Only 15% of the images comprise 100% of their sales.

Their problem, of course, is that they have no way to determine which 15% those will be. If they could figure that out, they could save a ton of money on servers (hardware and electricity and the manpower to keep them all going).

They also said (and my memory is a little more foggy here) that a similar ratio exists for the submitters, where only xxx (I think also around 15%) of the photo submitters make enough sales to reach the payout levels at least once a year.

I reckon its even more than 85% given the recent rate of new images. I'm surprised how my sales have held up relatively well and I have no illusions that my images are much more than "OK for stock". Pareto would expect 80% of sales to be made by 20% of all images.

nobody · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2018, 10:52 »

Quote from: Pauws99 on November 04, 2018, 09:08

Quote from: mindstorm on November 04, 2018, 08:42
Quote from: Pauws99 on November 04, 2018, 08:31
I would be very surprised if it was less than 80% and of the remainder very few put in more than a token effort.

I don't remember if I read this here or on a Facebook forum, but...

The group leader of some forum I follow said that he talked to the heads of Shutterstock, iStock and Adobe at a conference earlier this year. One of the facts that he heard repeatedly is that 85% of the images on their servers NEVER sell. Only 15% of the images comprise 100% of their sales.

Their problem, of course, is that they have no way to determine which 15% those will be. If they could figure that out, they could save a ton of money on servers (hardware and electricity and the manpower to keep them all going).

They also said (and my memory is a little more foggy here) that a similar ratio exists for the submitters, where only xxx (I think also around 15%) of the photo submitters make enough sales to reach the payout levels at least once a year.
I reckon its even more than 85% given the recent rate of new images. I'm surprised how my sales have held up relatively well and I have no illusions that my images are much more than "OK for stock". Pareto would expect 80% of sales to be made by 20% of all images.

In my case 10% of my images ( about 700) have made 90% of my revenue

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2018, 12:20 »

Keep writing and trying to make sense of Microstock.

About the join or get discouraged or whatever:

That data is no longer available. But was interesting. I wish I had saved more screen shots. Reading this, under 10% of the registered contributors had at least one image accepted or still in their account.

Also maybe this is a sign of less interest or maybe just less earnings?

Deposit Photos is erratic, can change tomorrow, Pond 5 has grown, Adobe has really improved FT and solidly passed IS. If you are counting, there are ten left, Evanto dropped off the poll.

nobody · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2018, 12:39 »

based the stats the contributors were an elite group until a few years ago - tons of us now. We are no longer special...

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2018, 13:05 »

Quote from: nobody on November 04, 2018, 12:39

based the stats the contributors were an elite group until a few years ago - tons of us now. We are no longer special...

That too, but I'll stick with the near absence of reviews or anything resembling quality standards. 1 million new files a week is just absurd. Quality, like cream, will still rise to the top. Just that getting there is more difficult than in the past.

I like the theory that some of us get special search treatment because of what we upload, or how often. Always good to hear a new conspiracy, especially since I'm one of the beneficiaries as I don't upload spammed keywords or image sets.

No I don't believe I get better search placement, but I wouldn't be against that if it was true? Stick the trash further in the back and that would benefit all of us.

Brasilnut · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2018, 13:25 »

Thanks everybody for your comments

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2018, 17:11 »

Thanks for writing/sharing the post!

qunamax · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2018, 09:59 »

Good reading. I was just wondering is it 2018/2019 related or written years before? If it's current it really sparks hope, which is good.
I was wondering what would happen if one sets to upload 100 images a day (back catalog and new shootings, all of excellent quality and decent commercial value)?
If persistent, it would take 3 months to reach about 9000 images online. How would that compare to 6000 in three years in your opinion?

oooo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2018, 13:07 »

500$ are about 430€ at the moment.
I assume you dont live in a tent and begging for food, so
i wonder:

how is it possible to pay with that amount:

-roof over ones head
-heating, water, electicity, internet conection etc
-all the wear parts like computer monitor software etc
-equipment and saving for broken gear and replacement
-clothing
-transport
-insurance
-food

(and c´mon, travelling like accommodation food transport and so on is ridiculous expensive)

To be honest, it looks like you pay AND work very hard
for donating images to the industry (which earns millions)

qunamax · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2018, 13:40 »

Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

tätarätä · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2018, 15:22 »

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40

Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros
If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

I guess its the same at Russia, Ukraine, etc,. If you hit $500 a month. You can make a living from shooting full-time stock photos.
If you have done the step shooting full-time Stock-photography its possible to produce enough stock photos doing the next step to $ 1000 a month, $1500 a month, etc.

oooo · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2018, 15:42 »

No doubt to what you all say.
But you have to admit, if you are living with a partner with 300€, or have a dayjob, or place with extreme cheap living costs,
this subsidizes the possibility to produce images in a way.

And -if all your dayjob money is going to cover the mentioned things-
-> you dont have many time left to produce enough high quality stuff

MY POINT: A fair royalty should finance production costs not a dayjob or partner etc

Anyway i doubt its possible to live and produce images in portugal with 430€/month

Brasilnut · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2018, 15:53 »

Quote

Anyway i doubt its possible to live and produce images in portugal with 430€/month

430euros a month is close to the 676.67 EUR per month (Jul 2018) minimum wage for Portugal, which happens to be one of the lowest in Europe. Another benefit of a low-cost country which hasn't been mentioned is the lower cost of hiring models and some quite beautiful women in Russia and Ukraine that would be all-too-willing to be models for a fraction of the cost of models in London, Paris, Milan, etc. I've looked into how much a model would cost in Lisbon and 50 euros for a daily rate is quite reasonable, otherwise students willing to do it for less!

Beside the point anyway since this isn't meant to be a full-time gig (although it may turn into one since it can be quite addictive). To quote myself:

Quote

To earn a living from Microstock alone is the privilege of increasingly fewer and fewer contributors in late-2018, especially for those that live in developed economies where the cost of living can be high.

I keep stressing that this is just to earn enough to upgrade equipment + pay for trips only. The rest should come from working with clients in a photography-related basis or another job unrelated, such as a cozy public sector job with loads of vacation days.

Helps to be in a low-cost environment but most of us aren't in Laos or Malaysia. I've spoken with some contributors in Scandinavia and it seems that, from a business point of view, it doesn't make sense to be a full-time Microstocker.

Tommy · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2018, 16:30 »

Excellent article Alex, it is very difficult to earn good money in this business, but maybe not as bad as your article suggests?

In my limited experience (I started selling stock early last year), I earned just over $500 in the last month with a portfolio of 1,500 images and 20 timelapse videos.

I’d say if you are earning $500 a month from 6,000 images then you’re doing something wrong.

My portfolio is fairly diverse, commercial and editorial, lots of travel, city, food, lifestyle etc. However I don’t use models, I also don’t really do conceptual stock stuff either.

I’m hoping I can get to around $1,500 monthly income in the next couple of years, although I realise that will be very hard to achieve. Doing lots more 4k video will likely be the only way to possibly achieve this.

nobody · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2018, 16:43 »

Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 13:07

500$ are about 430€ at the moment.
I assume you dont live in a tent and begging for food, so
i wonder:

how is it possible to pay with that amount:

-roof over ones head
-heating, water, electicity, internet conection etc
-all the wear parts like computer monitor software etc
-equipment and saving for broken gear and replacement
-clothing
-transport
-insurance
-food

(and c´mon, travelling like accommodation food transport and so on is ridiculous expensive)

To be honest, it looks like you pay AND work very hard
for donating images to the industry (which earns millions)

Very simple - I live in my parents home and use their car

Brasilnut · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2018, 18:44 »

Quote

Excellent article Alex, it is very difficult to earn good money in this business, but maybe not as bad as your article suggests?

In my limited experience (I started selling stock early last year), I earned just over $500 in the last month with a portfolio of 1,500 images and 20 timelapse videos.

I’d say if you are earning $500 a month from 6,000 images then you’re doing something wrong.

Thanks! I painted a sort of bittersweet picture of how I see the industry going forward. Some hard-working and in-pulse contributors earning $3/4 RPI/year, such as yourself, and on the opposite end, plenty of those with a ridiculous amount of similars earning $0.3/0.4 RPI/year at best. The average and majority should be about $1 RPI/year (perhaps on the optimistic side), hence the 6,000 image-port. Speaking hypothetically can be tricky and it's become a bit academic, unfortunately. I've tried to use my port as an example but it's not the most "average", since few people travel internationally as much as I do!

RPI is only part of the equation and as mentioned above by Pauws99, need to look at the cost to produce such images. In my case, probably like yourself, not considerable since we're shooting locally or incidentally. I know some who do very well shooting from a home-studio. In my case, I use a lot of friends/relatives as models and even myself lately ha, that was fun.

The 4K stuff should get you to those nice monthly amounts. I've sold only 8 videos in my life and still have a long ways to go! 4K would be nice and currently eyeing the GoPro7 to capture some urban hyperlapses and perhaps a drone soon, let's see!

cascoly · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2018, 19:36 »

Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 15:42

….

MY POINT: A fair royalty should finance production costs not a dayjob or partner etc

...

why? no one OWES us a living - and agencies pay what the market requires - stock photography has ceased (if ever) to be a full time job for most; those who continue just need to have a realistic expectation - for me, stock provides a sizeable chunk of my travel expenses, not a sole source of income

Tommy · « **Reply #26 on:** November 05, 2018, 20:54 »

Quote from: Brasilnut on November 05, 2018, 18:44

Quote
Excellent article Alex, it is very difficult to earn good money in this business, but maybe not as bad as your article suggests?

In my limited experience (I started selling stock early last year), I earned just over $500 in the last month with a portfolio of 1,500 images and 20 timelapse videos.

I’d say if you are earning $500 a month from 6,000 images then you’re doing something wrong.

Thanks! I painted a sort of bittersweet picture of how I see the industry going forward. Some hard-working and in-pulse contributors earning $3/4 RPI/year, such as yourself, and on the opposite end, plenty of those with a ridiculous amount of similars earning $0.3/0.4 RPI/year at best. The average and majority should be about $1 RPI/year (perhaps on the optimistic side), hence the 6,000 image-port. Speaking hypothetically can be tricky and it's become a bit academic, unfortunately. I've tried to use my port as an example but it's not the most "average", since few people travel internationally as much as I do!

RPI is only part of the equation and as mentioned above by Pauws99, need to look at the cost to produce such images. In my case, probably like yourself, not considerable since we're shooting locally or incidentally. I know some who do very well shooting from a home-studio. In my case, I use a lot of friends/relatives as models and even myself lately ha, that was fun.

The 4K stuff should get you to those nice monthly amounts. I've sold only 8 videos in my life and still have a long ways to go! 4K would be nice and currently eyeing the GoPro7 to capture some urban hyperlapses and perhaps a drone soon, let's see!

Oh I’m a video novice too, as I said I’ve only got around twenty 4k timelapses I captured with my Canon 6D. Some encouraging sales though for such a small amount.

Next step is to get a full-frame mirrorless camera that can do normal 4k video, looking at getting either a Sony A7 III or Canon EOS R.

Switching systems will be expensive but has to be done really, think mirrorless will take over now.

I also just got an iPhone XR which does reasonable 4k video, handy for places that I can’t use a big camera for some 4k editorial video.

silveandalu · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2018, 06:55 »

Quote from: TommyBoy on November 05, 2018, 20:54

Oh I’m a video novice too, as I said I’ve only got around twenty 4k timelapses I captured with my Canon 6D. Some encouraging sales though for such a small amount.

Next step is to get a full-frame mirrorless camera that can do normal 4k video, looking at getting either a Sony A7 III or Canon EOS R.

Switching systems will be expensive but has to be done really, think mirrorless will take over now.

I also just got an iPhone XR which does reasonable 4k video, handy for places that I can’t use a big camera for some 4k editorial video.

Go for the Panasocin GH5, for video is the best in my expirence, I had the sony a7sII, and it was amazing, but the GH5 has 4K 60 p, and 180 fps in 1080... For stock it works

(Panasonic doesnt pay me hehehehehe)

Good article brasilnuts, I saw that you visit Spain (Seville) I live near, in Cádiz

qunamax · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2018, 07:50 »

Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 15:42

No doubt to what you all say.
But you have to admit, if you are living with a partner with 300€, or have a dayjob, or place with extreme cheap living costs,
this subsidizes the possibility to produce images in a way.

And -if all your dayjob money is going to cover the mentioned things-
-> you dont have many time left to produce enough high quality stuff

MY POINT: A fair royalty should finance production costs not a dayjob or partner etc

Anyway i doubt its possible to live and produce images in portugal with 430€/month

It really depends on the niche, sure I can't possibly shoot high quality business stuff or exotic travel photos, but there are other things to cover if you are creative, not to mention going for CGI stuff both video and still, vectors... Adobe subscriptions are not high, Blender is free etc.
My point, once you reach $500 you can quit dayjob, as you are earning more than you used on your dayjob and you'll have a lot of time to devote to stock.
Also the people mentality is a bit different and if you are fairly young and social you'll have beautiful people standing in line for free photoshoots as long as they get nice photos for social media. I imagine being a bit older in western metropolis is a bit more difficult with models ($$$). But this is if you live in a small city, living in Belgrade is a bit different, cost are higher and you are constantly living low on time and fuel.
So with stable $500 it's a nice living, with double that you are pretty close to doctors, small company owners etc regarding living quality.

jonbull · « **Reply #29 on:** November 06, 2018, 11:31 »

Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 13:07

500$ are about 430€ at the moment.
I assume you dont live in a tent and begging for food, so
i wonder:

how is it possible to pay with that amount:

-roof over ones head
-heating, water, electicity, internet conection etc
-all the wear parts like computer monitor software etc
-equipment and saving for broken gear and replacement
-clothing
-transport
-insurance
-food

(and c´mon, travelling like accommodation food transport and so on is ridiculous expensive)

To be honest, it looks like you pay AND work very hard
for donating images to the industry (which earns millions)

probably like thousand of photographer blog food blogger instagram influencer in a word...family money.. family home ....people paying bills and so on.

jonbull · « **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2018, 11:36 »

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40

Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

jonbull · « **Reply #31 on:** November 06, 2018, 11:41 »

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/salaries-and-costs-of-living-in-ukraine/

jonbull · « **Reply #32 on:** November 06, 2018, 11:46 »

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

Tlara · « **Reply #33 on:** November 06, 2018, 12:05 »

Hi Brazilnut, thanks for a wonderful blogpost! I't inspired my to dive deeper down into subcategories.
I was wondering if there is a list of "Print on Demand agencies" somewhere?
All my Illustrations are RF. I'm not sure they would be suitable as posters, but maybe a few.

Once again. Thank you for a great blogpost.

obj owl · « **Reply #34 on:** November 06, 2018, 12:15 »

Quote from: Tlara on November 06, 2018, 12:05

Hi Brazilnut, thanks for a wonderful blogpost! I't inspired my to dive deeper down into subcategories.
I was wondering if there is a list of "Print on Demand agencies" somewhere?
All my Illustrations are RF. I'm not sure they would be suitable as posters, but maybe a few.

Once again. Thank you for a great blogpost.

Take your pick
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=BsvhW4zNIKiEgAan55i4BA&q=list+of+print+on+demand+sites&oq=list+of+%22Print+on+Demand+%22&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l3.37638.37638.0.44580.1.1.0.0.0.0.141.141.0j1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.139....0.lDwYQdFfx3k

Brasilnut · « **Reply #35 on:** November 06, 2018, 12:24 »

Quote from: Tlara on November 06, 2018, 12:05

Hi Brazilnut, thanks for a wonderful blogpost! I't inspired my to dive deeper down into subcategories.
I was wondering if there is a list of "Print on Demand agencies" somewhere?
All my Illustrations are RF. I'm not sure they would be suitable as posters, but maybe a few.

Once again. Thank you for a great blogpost.

You're welcome. Happy you enjoyed the brainstorming exercise!

obj owl hit the nail in the head there with the list, but personally I tend to stick with Photo4me and Fine Art America and have had some success, although still early days! There's quite a few threads here on this forum about Print on Demand agencies, pricing, etc.

Good luck and thanks again

oooo · « **Reply #36 on:** November 06, 2018, 14:28 »

Quote from: cascoly on November 05, 2018, 19:36

Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 15:42
….

why? no one OWES us a living - and agencies pay what the market requires - stock photography has ceased (if ever) to be a full time job for most; those who continue just need to have a realistic expectation - for me, stock provides a sizeable chunk of my travel expenses, not a sole source of income

If one (can) like what he does, no problem with that,
so just some thoughts:

For example it makes sense a country have a legal minimum wage,
otherwise you will always find somebody make it cheaper
-> wage will go near to zero
this causes problems, just take a look globally,
if you cant afford a meal, the cook cant afford to buy your work and so on
-> only the biggest will survive (with max power)

furthermore i would suggest a minimum healthcare system etc is not a bad ting.

So, saying no one owes you a living, seems only one side of a point of view.
Think about -from what ever you live at the moment- says this to you tomorrow.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2018, 14:56 »

Quote from: oooo on November 06, 2018, 14:28

Quote from: cascoly on November 05, 2018, 19:36
Quote from: oooo on November 05, 2018, 15:42
….

why? no one OWES us a living - and agencies pay what the market requires - stock photography has ceased (if ever) to be a full time job for most; those who continue just need to have a realistic expectation - for me, stock provides a sizeable chunk of my travel expenses, not a sole source of income

If one (can) like what he does, no problem with that,
so just some thoughts:

For example it makes sense a country have a legal minimum wage,
otherwise you will always find somebody make it cheaper
-> wage will go near to zero
this causes problems, just take a look globally,
if you cant afford a meal, the cook cant afford to buy your work and so on
-> only the biggest will survive (with max power)

furthermore i would suggest a minimum healthcare system etc is not a bad ting.

So, saying no one owes you a living, seems only one side of a point of view.
Think about -from what ever you live at th e moment- says this to you tomorrow.
The point is I think that selling stock is not a job and microstock agencies aren't the government.

oooo · « **Reply #38 on:** November 06, 2018, 15:35 »

Yes microstock agencies aren't the government, just as little as other companies.

qunamax · « **Reply #39 on:** November 07, 2018, 06:13 »

@Brasilnut can you comment on this?

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 09:59

Good reading. I was just wondering is it 2018/2019 related or written years before? If it's current it really sparks hope, which is good.
I was wondering what would happen if one sets to upload 100 images a day (back catalog and new shootings, all of excellent quality and decent commercial value)?
If persistent, it would take 3 months to reach about 9000 images online. How would that compare to 6000 in three years in your opinion?

Brasilnut · « **Reply #40 on:** November 07, 2018, 06:42 »

Quote from: qunamax on November 07, 2018, 06:13

@Brasilnut can you comment on this?

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 09:59
Good reading. I was just wondering is it 2018/2019 related or written years before? If it's current it really sparks hope, which is good.
I was wondering what would happen if one sets to upload 100 images a day (back catalog and new shootings, all of excellent quality and decent commercial value)?
If persistent, it would take 3 months to reach about 9000 images online. How would that compare to 6000 in three years in your opinion?

I wrote it last week. Yes, I believe it is contemporary...leaning more towards a realistic to cautious outlook, based on a strong commercial port (model-released) with few similar images. The projection also has editorials in the mix which, on average, earn less than model-released lifestyle type commercial work.

If one sets out to upload 100 images/day at "excellent quality and decent commercial value" over 90 days, my prediction would be that after an initial boost as "fresh content", it would then take at least a further 3-5 months until the algos do their thing and those images reach their peak in keyword rankings to earn their peak amounts, before slowly depreciating at about 3% a month until reaching a floor (they'll never become worthless).

Back catalogs related to fashion, technology, even skylines generally don't age well, save for vintage value (Manhattan pre- 9/11 for example). If those images are contemporary they may hold their own for years to rank highly for certain keywords. Best to be shooting with future trends in mind, in any case,...Virtual Reality / Augmented reality, tablets, digital displays, etc.

This is all really academic so best to post a few examples to have a better idea of your archives.

I recall reading somewhere that uploading slowly and consistently is better than all at once in terms of earnings, plus you wouldn't be want to do keywording for 5 hours a day for the next 3 months as you'll probably drive yourself crazy. Plus you may get a nasty reviewer who will just reject a whole batch. In the end they would probably earn about the same in their lifetime but always keep in mind that some images are more time-sensitive than others!

Hope that helps!

Tlara · « **Reply #41 on:** November 08, 2018, 00:09 »

"If one sets out to upload 100 images/day at "excellent quality and decent commercial value" over 90 days, my prediction would be that after an initial boost as "fresh content", it would then take at least a further 3-5 months until the algos do their thing and those images reach their peak in keyword rankings to earn their peak amounts, before slowly depreciating at about 3% a month until reaching a floor (they'll never become worthless)."

100 images pr day?! HELP DEAR GOD! If I'm good I can do 4 images pr. day. I think you ment 100 images in 90 days? Sorry, I'm not used to MS terms. But thanks again for important insights.

"I recall reading somewhere that uploading slowly and consistently is better than all at once in terms of earnings, plus you wouldn't be want to do keywording for 5 hours a day for the next 3 months as you'll probably drive yourself crazy. Plus you may get a nasty reviewer who will just reject a whole batch. In the end they would probably earn about the same in their lifetime but always keep in mind that some images are more time-sensitive than others!"

I totally agree!

Chichikov · « **Reply #42 on:** November 08, 2018, 02:03 »

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

jonbull · « **Reply #43 on:** November 08, 2018, 08:53 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

well i not go kiev in a year but your prices are incorrect...taxi fare minimum 150 gryvna? u dreaming...in center is one dollar 30 40 gryvna...cigarette cost 24 gryvna package less than a euro...pizza napule is more expensive but nothing compared to west..and nail is a premium pizzeria one who goes those with only...cheaper pizzeria cost 100 gryva for a good pizza...va piano in arena cost much less....and we are talking about going in very center of capital city...consider the rest of country we are talking about much less money...
i repeat even earning 400 dollar is a lot compared to 90% of works in ukraine that's why there are literally thousand of people shooting the same stuff, copycat, late factory who use many photographer producing photos...production cost are ridiculous.

jonbull · « **Reply #44 on:** November 08, 2018, 08:59 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

8 gryvna are 0,25 euro...in my post i talked about euro not dollar...probably thats the difference in price you told....leaving aside the small stuff the point is ...kiev is a city that with 700 dollar you can live...you say with 500 dollar you cant live...so how can live millions of people in kiev considering they earn much less than 500 dollar?
in addiction in ukraine like russia the bulk of richness s in hand of a little part of population.
sur with 500 dollar you don't have luxury life...dont go to napule....but you live a good life in kiev...even paying a rent...is the same life you live in italy with 1500 euro...that's why thousand of people do still micro in ukraine uploading like crazy...while in rest of the world micro is just becoming an hobby.

jonbull · « **Reply #45 on:** November 08, 2018, 09:03 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03

Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

i know people who work in bank and earn 10000 gryvna month...in bank!!...your salary statistic is biased towards a small group of people who earn a lot....480 dollar is 12000 gryvna.i doubt shop seller or people working in cafe earn this.....my friend from zhytomir has mother who work in hospital...she earn 7000 gryvna...your stats are biased towards kiev....mos contributor in ukraien comes from outside kiev.

jonbull · « **Reply #46 on:** November 08, 2018, 09:10 »

Quote from: jonbull on November 08, 2018, 09:03

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

i know people who work in bank and earn 10000 gryvna month...in bank!!...your salary statistic is biased towards a small group of people who earn a lot....480 dollar is 12000 gryvna.i doubt shop seller or people working in cafe earn this.....my friend from zhytomir has mother who work in hospital...she earn 7000 gryvna...your stats are biased towards kiev....mos contributor in ukraien comes from outside kiev.

https://www.taxifarefinder.com/main.php?city=Taxify-Taxi-Kyiv-Ukraine&from=Arena+City%2C+вул.+Басейна%2C+2А%2C+Київ%2C+Київська%2C+Ukraine&to=Kiev+Academic+Drama+Theatre+on+Podol%2C+Андріївський+узвіз%2C+20Б%2C+Київ%2C+Київська%2C+Ukraine&fromCoord=50.44138,30.520878&toCoord=50.460438,30.514515

56 gr for 4 km and more ride....it's like 1,5 euro....in italy i spend 15 euro for a ride like this...

http://www.pizza-celentano.kiev.ua/picca/

118 gryvna foor a 28 , normal, pizza,...its less than 3,5 euro..and still we are talking about kiev center.. in model to small city price are easily 20 30% less. the point is 500 dollar put many in line with salary earned by normal job in ukraine...so it's a tough life for sure but the same as millions of ukraine people, with the difference that you work less, do something you like....in any country 500 dollar put you under a bridge...tha'ts why micro is experiencing the overflow of contributor from russia and ukraine in last years

qunamax · « **Reply #47 on:** November 08, 2018, 09:12 »

Quote from: Brasilnut on November 07, 2018, 06:42

Quote from: qunamax on November 07, 2018, 06:13
@Brasilnut can you comment on this?

Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 09:59
Good reading. I was just wondering is it 2018/2019 related or written years before? If it's current it really sparks hope, which is good.
I was wondering what would happen if one sets to upload 100 images a day (back catalog and new shootings, all of excellent quality and decent commercial value)?
If persistent, it would take 3 months to reach about 9000 images online. How would that compare to 6000 in three years in your opinion?

I wrote it last week. Yes, I believe it is contemporary...leaning more towards a realistic to cautious outlook, based on a strong commercial port (model-released) with few similar images. The projection also has editorials in the mix which, on average, earn less than model-released lifestyle type commercial work.

If one sets out to upload 100 images/day at "excellent quality and decent commercial value" over 90 days, my prediction would be that after an initial boost as "fresh content", it would then take at least a further 3-5 months until the algos do their thing and those images reach their peak in keyword rankings to earn their peak amounts, before slowly depreciating at about 3% a month until reaching a floor (they'll never become worthless).

Back catalogs related to fashion, technology, even skylines generally don't age well, save for vintage value (Manhattan pre- 9/11 for example). If those images are contemporary they may hold their own for years to rank highly for certain keywords. Best to be shooting with future trends in mind, in any case,...Virtual Reality / Augmented reality, tablets, digital displays, etc.

This is all really academic so best to post a few examples to have a better idea of your archives.

I recall reading somewhere that uploading slowly and consistently is better than all at once in terms of earnings, plus you wouldn't be want to do keywording for 5 hours a day for the next 3 months as you'll probably drive yourself crazy. Plus you may get a nasty reviewer who will just reject a whole batch. In the end they would probably earn about the same in their lifetime but always keep in mind that some images are more time-sensitive than others!

Hope that helps!

Thank you for the extensive answer! It's not really a personal question, but while reading the article I got really curious how would a really aggressive strategy work out instead of long term, really modest weekly uploads you suggested.

qunamax · « **Reply #48 on:** November 08, 2018, 09:24 »

Quote from: Tlara on November 08, 2018, 00:09

"If one sets out to upload 100 images/day at "excellent quality and decent commercial value" over 90 days, my prediction would be that after an initial boost as "fresh content", it would then take at least a further 3-5 months until the algos do their thing and those images reach their peak in keyword rankings to earn their peak amounts, before slowly depreciating at about 3% a month until reaching a floor (they'll never become worthless)."

100 images pr day?! HELP DEAR GOD! If I'm good I can do 4 images pr. day. I think you ment 100 images in 90 days? Sorry, I'm not used to MS terms. But thanks again for important insights.

"I recall reading somewhere that uploading slowly and consistently is better than all at once in terms of earnings, plus you wouldn't be want to do keywording for 5 hours a day for the next 3 months as you'll probably drive yourself crazy. Plus you may get a nasty reviewer who will just reject a whole batch. In the end they would probably earn about the same in their lifetime but always keep in mind that some images are more time-sensitive than others!"

I totally agree!

Theoretically I think it's really doable, thou you have to have that amount of decent stock images waiting on the hard drive or have photoshoots in parallel daily. If I was to split the work (pp, keyword, upload, submit) into 10 images - pause - 10 images, it even seems easy and fun, beats working with papers in office for 8 hours.

Chichikov · « **Reply #49 on:** November 08, 2018, 11:15 »

Quote from: jonbull on November 08, 2018, 08:53

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

well i not go kiev in a year but your prices are incorrect...taxi fare minimum 150 gryvna? u dreaming...in center is one dollar 30 40 gryvna...cigarette cost 24 gryvna package less than a euro...pizza napule is more expensive but nothing compared to west..and nail is a premium pizzeria one who goes those with only...cheaper pizzeria cost 100 gryva for a good pizza...va piano in arena cost much less....and we are talking about going in very center of capital city...consider the rest of country we are talking about much less money...
i repeat even earning 400 dollar is a lot compared to 90% of works in ukraine that's why there are literally thousand of people shooting the same stuff, copycat, late factory who use many photographer producing photos...production cost are ridiculous.

I live and work in Kiev since 2006…
I think that I know enough well what are the real prices here…
Taxi, yes and no: I never told about a "minimum" fare, but about a "simple" one. You should know that very few normal Ukrainian people use the taxi for short distances. Only fat foreigners and rich Ukrainians will take a taxi to go from Maidan to Besarabka… Ukrainians walk (a lot), and they use metro and marshrutka (a lot). Only if they need to move on a longer distance they take a taxi.

Here a (good) statistic about the cost of life in Kiev.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Kiev
You can set it in $ or € if you want.
For my personal experience I can tell that many prices are a little undervalued (5 - 20%)
For example the utilities are higher, specially after the last growth of the gas and electricity prices.

$400 is not a lot compared to the average salary in Kiev - $384.43 (the only one you should refer to). It is a normal salary.
(I don't tell about Ukraine, but about Kiev, because most of the photographers works in Kiev)
Yes production costs are still not very high at the moment, but it is changing, and the equipment cost like everywhere else, and very often more.

"you say with 500 dollar you cant live...so how can live millions of people in kiev considering they earn much less than 500 dollar?"
Well it is enough easy to answer to that. After the fall of Soviet union all the people living there (so in Ukraine too) have became owners of the flat where they lived. So not having to pay for the rent of the flat they can effectively live with less money. But things are changing, the population is growing and today not everybody is owner of the flat where he lives.
If you are not owner of your flat, and have to pay a rent, it is not so easy to live decently with $500 a month.
Try to live in Kiev with $500 a month, then you will tell me

jonbull · « **Reply #50 on:** November 08, 2018, 12:40 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 11:15

Quote from: jonbull on November 08, 2018, 08:53
Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

well i not go kiev in a year but your prices are incorrect...taxi fare minimum 150 gryvna? u dreaming...in center is one dollar 30 40 gryvna...cigarette cost 24 gryvna package less than a euro...pizza napule is more expensive but nothing compared to west..and nail is a premium pizzeria one who goes those with only...cheaper pizzeria cost 100 gryva for a good pizza...va piano in arena cost much less....and we are talking about going in very center of capital city...consider the rest of country we are talking about much less money...
i repeat even earning 400 dollar is a lot compared to 90% of works in ukraine that's why there are literally thousand of people shooting the same stuff, copycat, late factory who use many photographer producing photos...production cost are ridiculous.

I live and work in Kiev since 2006…
I think that I know enough well what are the real prices here…
Taxi, yes and no: I never told about a "minimum" fare, but about a "simple" one. You should know that very few normal Ukrainian people use the taxi for short distances. Only fat foreigners and rich Ukrainians will take a taxi to go from Maidan to Besarabka… Ukrainians walk (a lot), and they use metro and marshrutka (a lot). Only if they need to move on a longer distance they take a taxi.

Here a (good) statistic about the cost of life in Kiev.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Kiev
You can set it in $ or € if you want.
For my personal experience I can tell that many prices are a little undervalued (5 - 20%)
For example the utilities are higher, specially after the last growth of the gas and electricity prices.

$400 is not a lot compared to the average salary in Kiev - $384.43 (the only one you should refer to). It is a normal salary.
(I don't tell about Ukraine, but about Kiev, because most of the photographers works in Kiev)
Yes production costs are still not very high at the moment, but it is changing, and the equipment cost like everywhere else, and very often more.

"you say with 500 dollar you cant live...so how can live millions of people in kiev considering they earn much less than 500 dollar?"
Well it is enough easy to answer to that. After the fall of Soviet union all the people living there (so in Ukraine too) have became owners of the flat where they lived. So not having to pay for the rent of the flat they can effectively live with less money. But things are changing, the population is growing and today not everybody is owner of the flat where he lives.
If you are not owner of your flat, and have to pay a rent, it is not so easy to live decently with $500 a month.
Try to live in Kiev with $500 a month, then you will tell me

i told cost of production are practically near zero...living cost are practically near zero...compared to west...that's why most contributor come from russia an dukraine...outside kiev you can easily live with 6 700 dollar even renting apartment....sure you don't change camera eery day....cost off equipment is getting so cheaper...or do you think that most ukraine producer buy the last gear to shoot flat lay tabletop? as you told people in kiev don't live like tourist...so they can easily live with 600 700 dollar. outside kiev the cost of living is even lower...and ukraine people like in any part of world on't go to eat pizza eery day. so ys 500 600 let you live in kiev, survive at least, while in any part of the world 500 let you sleep under a bridge.
ùù

jonbull · « **Reply #51 on:** November 08, 2018, 12:44 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 11:15

Quote from: jonbull on November 08, 2018, 08:53
Quote from: Chichikov on November 08, 2018, 02:03
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:46
Quote from: jonbull on November 06, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: qunamax on November 05, 2018, 13:40
Depends where you live, here in Serbia a middle class man has around 300euros (outside Belgrade where cost and wages are higher), now if you are alone without yourown place it is a problem but still doable, but if you have your place and are living with a partner that also has 300euros it's actually very decent and no we are not living in the tent, we have modern cars (thou buying used ones), computers (not the latest and greatest), phones, fast internet, we go on holidays to seaside etc etc.
Also, I don't think anyone in South-east or just generally Europe would write off 500$ a month, that's one nice lens every month or 10 day all-inclussive holiday in hotel in Egypt or used Ford Fiesta in 5-6 months, especially if all your dayjob money is going to things you mentioned.

If you managed here to somehow pull out about $1000 monthly from stock, you'd be the king of the world all while doing what you love the most.

thats why nowadays 80 % of content are produced in eastern europe...russian and ukraine contributor are uploading the bulk...there are thousand of contributor some loading thousand of images a week...new come out everyday...you know why? because outside moscow in russsia u can live with 7 800 dollar...and in ukraine the median salary is you know how much? 150 dollar att he moment...teache at public school earn 150 dollar...mcdonald worker 100...sale shop 200.....so you understand that even earning 400 dollar is a lot more and you are doing a funny job...take into account that model are cheap as hell...girl are beautiful and they love be photographed for penny same teenager...that's why you see thousand of people shots....sure there are creative studio and some are best one...i think miles studio and see other in stocksy...or some studio in kiev and moscow...but first of all they have ridiculous cost...i shoot in kiev often and model cost from nothing to 10dollar hours...full studio with concept setup come at 1

just to say in kiev cigarette 0,8 cent package taxi 0,8 cent one ride in center.....pizza and coke in good restaurant...4 dollar....renting is the only thing that cost but outside the center is cheap as hell....imagine earning 600 dollar...200 for rent, 50 for electricity gas mobile phone and all, the rest for going out and eat or buy some stuff. then ty can do some photo work to add some more money... so what seems unsustainable in europe become a great job in kiev compared to many other 8 hours day job...that's why you see thousand of contributor from ukraine serbbia russia hungary.

i love food photography but cooking has become super expensive were i live....think of raspberry 2,4 euro 100 gram where i live...in kiev i buy raspberry in the street from old woman, half kilo 1 euro. just to emphasize who you and e are competing against.

I don't know from where, and from when you got these figures…
Your numbers are closer to those of 2006 than to the one of 2018.
Since Euro Maidan the prices have grown a lot in Ukraine… A lot a lot.

To retake your examples:
A pack of cigarette costs from $1 to $2 (Marlboro $1.25)
A simple taxi ride cost no less than 150 uah ($5) today
A bad pizza (Celentano restaurant) cost from $6.80. If you go to Napulé restaurant (the best pizza in Kiev) you will pay 2 3 times more.
Renting a 1 room flat (40 sqm) in an external district costs minimum $250 for a descent "Euro-remont" flat. Downtown you will pay $800 - $1000 for a simple "Euro-remont" flat.

Electricity, Gas etc.
Last month the price of gas has grown 60%.
Cost of transports has grown 1600% during the last 10 years - in 2008 a metro ticket costed 0.5 uah, today it costs 8 uah.
In 2018 the official average salary in Ukraine is $300 a month (march 2018). In Kiev it is $480 (march 2018).
The cost of everything grows very fast, but not the salaries.
In Kiev you don't live with less than $500 a month if you have to pay for the rent of a flat…

Also consider that if you want to buy "foreign" goods they cost 20% more (as minimum)
Cars cost more, cameras cost more, computers cost more, etc. (to buy an enough good computer and an average photo camera with a good lens you need 4 - 6 months of full salary…)

The only true thing that you wrote is about red fruits like raspberry, strawberry, etc. Yes they cost very little $1/kg during the season… and they are so tasty.

https://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/

Grivna converter here:
http://www.viaggiatori.net/pagine/monete/UAH.php

well i not go kiev in a year but your prices are incorrect...taxi fare minimum 150 gryvna? u dreaming...in center is one dollar 30 40 gryvna...cigarette cost 24 gryvna package less than a euro...pizza napule is more expensive but nothing compared to west..and nail is a premium pizzeria one who goes those with only...cheaper pizzeria cost 100 gryva for a good pizza...va piano in arena cost much less....and we are talking about going in very center of capital city...consider the rest of country we are talking about much less money...
i repeat even earning 400 dollar is a lot compared to 90% of works in ukraine that's why there are literally thousand of people shooting the same stuff, copycat, late factory who use many photographer producing photos...production cost are ridiculous.

I live and work in Kiev since 2006…
I think that I know enough well what are the real prices here…
Taxi, yes and no: I never told about a "minimum" fare, but about a "simple" one. You should know that very few normal Ukrainian people use the taxi for short distances. Only fat foreigners and rich Ukrainians will take a taxi to go from Maidan to Besarabka… Ukrainians walk (a lot), and they use metro and marshrutka (a lot). Only if they need to move on a longer distance they take a taxi.

Here a (good) statistic about the cost of life in Kiev.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Kiev
You can set it in $ or € if you want.
For my personal experience I can tell that many prices are a little undervalued (5 - 20%)
For example the utilities are higher, specially after the last growth of the gas and electricity prices.

$400 is not a lot compared to the average salary in Kiev - $384.43 (the only one you should refer to). It is a normal salary.
(I don't tell about Ukraine, but about Kiev, because most of the photographers works in Kiev)
Yes production costs are still not very high at the moment, but it is changing, and the equipment cost like everywhere else, and very often more.

"you say with 500 dollar you cant live...so how can live millions of people in kiev considering they earn much less than 500 dollar?"
Well it is enough easy to answer to that. After the fall of Soviet union all the people living there (so in Ukraine too) have became owners of the flat where they lived. So not having to pay for the rent of the flat they can effectively live with less money. But things are changing, the population is growing and today not everybody is owner of the flat where he lives.
If you are not owner of your flat, and have to pay a rent, it is not so easy to live decently with $500 a month.
Try to live in Kiev with $500 a month, then you will tell me

i own my apartment in western europe try to live with 500 dollar....you not even eat pizza once in month....dont know why ukraine or eastern contributor got upset about this question...ukraine outside the center of kiev is 3 4 times cheaper than any part of the world i lived on...when i go kiev i can easily eat three meals in restaurant and take 4 taxi a day, shooting model in studio for the price of a meal in a good restaurant in my city.....ligthtfield studio are very good and rent 550 per hour, even a lot compared to other stain, i shoot model and even in agency i can rent model , not the best but by far better than any amateur i can in my country, for 10 dollar hour...so one hour shooting is 25 dollar...if you don't shoot friend in ay wester country you need 60 8 dollar for renting a studio one hour...and model from agency with model released signed cost a lot of money

oooo · « **Reply #52 on:** November 08, 2018, 13:56 »

Reading this, maybe there will be a freelancer-refugees flood
heading south and east soon.
But looking at the numbers in general one have to be prepared to move from east to far east in not too long.

christiano · « **Reply #53 on:** November 15, 2018, 11:38 »

Quote from: silveandalu on November 06, 2018, 06:55

Quote from: TommyBoy on November 05, 2018, 20:54

Oh I’m a video novice too, as I said I’ve only got around twenty 4k timelapses I captured with my Canon 6D. Some encouraging sales though for such a small amount.

Next step is to get a full-frame mirrorless camera that can do normal 4k video, looking at getting either a Sony A7 III or Canon EOS R.

Switching systems will be expensive but has to be done really, think mirrorless will take over now.

I also just got an iPhone XR which does reasonable 4k video, handy for places that I can’t use a big camera for some 4k editorial video.

Go for the Panasocin GH5, for video is the best in my expirence, I had the sony a7sII, and it was amazing, but the GH5 has 4K 60 p, and 180 fps in 1080... For stock it works (Panasonic doesnt pay me hehehehehe)

Good article brasilnuts, I saw that you visit Spain (Seville) I live near, in Cádiz

I have the pana g85, my 4k videos are amazing!

Nice post Brasilnuts

[email protected] · « **Reply #54 on:** November 18, 2018, 02:17 »

I personally think that if you have 5,000 pictures online, you should be able to stabilize at 500 knives a month. However, in the following time, you can slowly and occasionally pass the map gradually. You don't need to be tired. Preconditions must be There are 5000 good pictures, can't be the same picture!

TG1112 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 18, 2018, 02:48 »

My challenge is to earn at least $ 5,000 a month on stockphoto so I can live on that income.

A liter of gasoline costs about $ 2 in my part of the world.

ShadySue · « **Reply #56 on:** November 18, 2018, 07:07 »

Quote from: [email protected] on November 18, 2018, 02:17

I personally think that if you have 5,000 pictures online, you should be able to stabilize at 500 knives a month. However, in the following time, you can slowly and occasionally pass the map gradually. You don't need to be tired. Preconditions must be There are 5000 good pictures, can't be the same picture!

There really is no predicting what will happen.
Back in the day, I was earning >$500 pm with c3000 non-commerical images on iS alone. Nowadays, to earn that amount of money, you'd need to expend much more than that.
I'm currently earning about 1/3 of what I was then with c4000 images, but I haven't submitted there for 2.5 years. I keep reading that new files get little action (only one person disagreeing), so I'm not sure keeping uploading there would make much difference, though I may relent and resubmit one of my categories (which seldom even gets viewed on Alamy) there in the new year, still thinking about it.

From what I'm reading in various places, exclusives offering highly commercial multi-model and location-released images are selling well, but their expenses are also very high.

My point is you can't make any predictions/projections based on what's happening today. I made a steady increase on iS for five years, one rapid fall, then a steady decrease since (avarage rpd less than a quarter of what it was in 2011/2). (Couldn't have predicted back then that iS would introduce subs, far less extremely low paying PA. Until that bombshell, iS had been working to increase prices.)

Now we see the once-loved SS being lambasted all over.

We allowed ourselves to be so indoctrinated to accepting SS's low prices that people are cheering that Adobe has set a minimum payout of 33c (although some prices there are still much lower than that).
It's our fault: we conditioned buyers to think the value of an image is extremely low, where in fact that's only likely to be profitable for a small selection of high-selling images.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #57 on:** November 18, 2018, 07:32 »

No ones fault really - look at any other digital market. Music for example. Sadly inevitable. But totally agree anyone who thinks they can predict income from images not even submitted yet is being optimistic to put it mildly.

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