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Author Topic: Improper image isolation  (Read 15893 times)

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tab62

« on: February 28, 2011, 14:05 »
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Hi MS Group,

Could anyone tell me what is 'Improper Image Isolation'? I am getting a lot of rejections with these comments. Most of the shots include my hand holding the object such as a dollar bill with say a cup of coffee in the background.

Thanks.


Tom


« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 14:27 »
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You'll have to post a link to a hi-res sample, for us to give you any meaningful feedback.

tab62

« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 14:40 »
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 14:51 »
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I am not good at isolations. Wanted to say that first. I'm thinking that they are seeing the background as beige or off white and in traditional isolation the background is pure 255,255,255 white. If you want isolations on something other than white, I think it needs to be a color far from white so as not to be interpreted as bad lighting. Hope that helps.

« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 14:54 »
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You don't understand. Link to a High resolution photo. The one you posted is way too small to tell anything about it.

tab62

« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 15:03 »
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I do not have a web page thus no links to my high resolution photos- sorry. I have a very cheap background, so-so camera with a so-so lens with poor lighting equipment due to my income. I think comments on the white background are correct. I will switch to my blue or green table cloth for those shots. 

Do the majority of my photos have to be 'isolated' on white for sales? If so, I am probably dead in the water on my budget...


Thanks.

tab62

« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 15:10 »
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You guys are a very good photographers! I am having some serious issues with photographing objects with the white background. I've attempted doing tricks such as using the magic wand and blasting the background via the Levels or curves. Also using the dodge but the Stock editors blast me on this! They can see everything that I've done. I've been told to just take good photos out of the camera and don't do much on the photoshop. If I do that all my photos come out with a grayish background- they look horrible. I see the good images that are selling and the white background is so WHITE. How do they do it?


Thanks.

Tom

« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 15:11 »
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I am not good at isolations. Wanted to say that first. I'm thinking that they are seeing the background as beige or off white and in traditional isolation the background is pure 255,255,255 white. If you want isolations on something other than white, I think it needs to be a color far from white so as not to be interpreted as bad lighting. Hope that helps.

I agree. I think that if you call an image isolated, it should be on a white background. If you didn't call the image isolated, and you wanted it on a beige background, then I don't understand why they would reject it for improper image isolation.

And no, the majority of your images don't have to be isolated on white. You are allowed to use colorful backgrounds.

I think your most telling statement was that of poor lighting equipment. It's going to be tough to get the right lighting without the proper equipment. Look on the internet though for inexpensive lighting setups...I have seen some decent results with some pretty cheap stuff.

« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 15:12 »
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You guys are a very good photographers! I am having some serious issues with photographing objects with the white background. I've attempted doing tricks such as using the magic wand and blasting the background via the Levels or curves. Also using the dodge but the Stock editors blast me on this! They can see everything that I've done. I've been told to just take good photos out of the camera and don't do much on the photoshop. If I do that all my photos come out with a grayish background- they look horrible. I see the good images that are selling and the white background is so WHITE. How do they do it?


Thanks.

Tom

It's NOT done in Photoshop...it is done when photographing the object.

« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 15:47 »
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It's done as best as possible in camera, and then in Photoshop.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+isolate+in+photoshop

« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 16:47 »
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You should have a pure white background for a true isolation.. You should make sure you have enough light in the background on the white and your exposure just right to do this best.. Then if you need to get it better in photoshop you can use levels to tweak it, and or use the Burn tool on 60 or above to move over the white areas to get them to pure white.. make sure you do not go into the objects too much either, but you do not want to leave a line or discoloration on the edges.. Or another mor tediouse way is to draw around your objects with a pen tool..

 If you are going to isolations it's really best to get it as close as possible with your lights and camera so minimal is done post processing, it will save you time and rejections for sure..

« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 16:52 »
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Also, if you are using lighting that is not daylight balanced.. Or you are shooting under regular household lamps, make sure you are shooting with the right white balance settings.. It would be tungston for regular lights..

« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 17:09 »
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You really should be lighting the foreground and background independently to get a good isolation.

« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 17:32 »
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You really should be lighting the foreground and background independently to get a good isolation.

Exactly. And sure, some touchups can be done in Photoshop. The OP is talking about using the magic wand, etc. and that is not really the correct way to do it.

tab62

« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 17:42 »
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all my pics that I used the magic wand got slammed! One editors told this would fly maybe a few years ago but not by today's standards!  Here is a sample that I sent in using the wand


http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view?id=2460795

« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 18:11 »
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all my pics that I used the magic wand got slammed! One editors told this would fly maybe a few years ago but not by today's standards!  Here is a sample that I sent in using the wand


http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view?id=2460795

Even at this resolution, it is possible to see jagged edges on the ribbon. Magic wand is a very dangerous tool - it can be useful, but you have to be carefull.

« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 18:13 »
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The rough edges around the bottom of the ribbon is what got you nailed. Unless the wand is set to 1 or 2 you arent going to get perfect edges.


« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 18:29 »
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dont forget to feather the "selection"

« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 00:37 »
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Better yet don't use the wand, use the pen tool.. or even better, get enough light to do it right..

« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 02:34 »
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You should light the background separately from the object (maybe opaque perspex with a bright light behind it) so the background is over-exposed. You can't get a white background using the light you are using to light the object in the foreground, that will always create a gray background.

« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2011, 03:57 »
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You don't need expensive equipment, just knowledge.  Go to your local hardware store, buy six or seven clamp lights (like used in the shop), buy a set of bulbs (all exactly same type).  Get some sticks (1x2 or 2x4); put them in buckets or gallon cans with dirt or concrete.  Clamp lights to the sticks.  Use four lights to light the background-make the light even; meter it so it is at about f11 or a bit higher.  Use couple lights to light the subject; meter it to be about f8. Don't put the subject to close to the background or you will get spill light hitting the back of the subject making it hot.   You can use a white bedsheet pulled tight for a white background.  Get a translucent shower curtain to use as a diffuser.

Take your time with the setup and you will save time with post processing.  Set your white bal. according to the lamps you are using.

All this equipment can be purchased new for $100.

« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 05:34 »
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here's a little tutorial

How to Isolate an Image on White - Photoshop Tutorial [In-Depth]

« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 18:49 »
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you can buy a cheap chinese flash off ebay for about $35 and then a cheap wireless trigger for about $25 bucks and thats basically a $70 setup... thats how i built my cheapo studio for about $200 bucks with 3 flash and lightstands and stuff.... its really cheap and my photos look pretty pro from just poverty gear

« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 01:46 »
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NEVER use the magic wand tool for isolation, use the pen tool, there's loads of tuts on the internet on how to use it, takes a bit of practice but you'll get it right in no time
After you've isolated it, make a curve adjustment layer, drag the right side of the curve all the way down and you'll see where there is areas that are jagged or not fully isolated
If you say an image is isolated it must be on a pure white BG, anything other than that is not isolated
As the others have said you don't need a big setup (would be nice though)......I still have nothing more that one single flash ;D and a nice curve table. Believe it or not, before I had the table I did some images in a white cooler box with an on camera flash and a sheet of white paper and it worked brilliantly (somewhere on the internet there was a tut on this)
do your research on the web, play around, don't get discouraged and keep going

« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 13:29 »
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I always use the pen tool and then might do some retouching if needed (when cutting hair for instance). The magic wand only if Im doing a quick job just to see roughly how something would look isolated.
Sometimes a too crisp border doesnt look good either so you have to do some feathering to the selection before taking out the backgroud. For me a good isolation is something quite hand made,no magic formulas or fast tricks if you want good results!
you dont nessesarily have to uplad the images on perfect white, you can let the buyer know in your photo description it has acutting path in case the client iinterested in isolatingthe image.  ;)

« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2011, 15:41 »
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The main thing is, don't get frustrated.  I say this as someone who tends to get frustrated. :-)     

The advice in this thread is correct.  The key is to have a white background some distance behind the subject and light that background independently - not perfectly, but bright enough so that all of it - even the dimmer parts - end up saturated, or nearly so, in the photo.  If it's close, you can usually take it the rest of the way by pulling down the white point with a curve adjustment. Center-weighted metering can help you get the subject right while letting the background blow out. Or use a gray card. 

dannyhitt20

    This user is banned.
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 22:39 »
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Are there guides to know this?


 

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