MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Newbie Discussion => Topic started by: tab62 on April 04, 2011, 16:11
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Hi Stock Folks,
I just read a lot of strings (very negative) about iStock with one them stating that they paid someone 8c on a photo. I was thinking about applying for iStock but not sure anymore. Our min wage in Washington is over $8 per hour which sounds a lot higher than the $$$ or Cents that you would make at iStock. If you were a rookie, like myself, would you pass on iStock?
Thanks.
Tom
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try and get accepted first, then decide if you want to join or not...
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I think there are better places to focus your energy, but it's still another source of income for your images. It's at least worth applying and see what happens.
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Hi Stock Folks,
I just read a lot of strings (very negative) about iStock with one them stating that they paid someone 8c on a photo. I was thinking about applying for iStock but not sure anymore. Our min wage in Washington is over $8 per hour which sounds a lot higher than the $$$ or Cents that you would make at iStock. If you were a rookie, like myself, would you pass on iStock?
Thanks.
Tom
You need to make that decision for yourself. I'm pretty sure I've seen Getty sales lower than 8c (for a very tiny web size). The secret is to find pics that will sell multiple times to iStock's target market (whoever that is, I'm not seeing iStock ads these days whereas they used to be ubiquitous). If anyone knew what these were, they wouldn't tell you. It also helps if your multiple seller isn't one that can be easily copied inspirational. Then the mysterious best match algorhythm can help your files or kill them. at least it changes quite often. Sometimes. It'll certainly improve your pixel perfect technical ability, if nothing else.
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I just read a lot of strings (very negative) about iStock with one them stating that they paid someone 8c on a photo. I was thinking about applying for iStock but not sure anymore. Our min wage in Washington is over $8 per hour which sounds a lot higher than the $$$ or Cents that you would make at iStock. If you were a rookie, like myself, would you pass on iStock?
If you're thinking about stock like this, then you really don't understand how it works.
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Thanks,
I plan on submitting my application very soon. I will select my 3 pics and see how they fare. Shutterstock was a major task for me - I hit 8 out of 10 on my application and my sales have been really good there considering I do not have a large portfolio. At this point in the game the more sites I belong to the better my chance of sales. So far deposit photos has been the best this month for me.
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Just got the book "Money Shots" - I cannot wait to read it starting tonight. I've told it will educate me real fast on this stock world...
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You'll find a lot of jaded and cynical points of view here, but they (we) aren't the whole reality. You actually can make money at microstock, just not nearly as much, as easily or as fast as some magazine and newspaper features make it sound.
You can make money at IS but first you have to mentally prepare yourself for a tedious and probably frustrating period of just trying to get in the door. Save yourself some time and aggravation by skimming this forum for a couple of hours, and some important points will start to sink in.
I'd suggest not dealing with IS at first (and actually, maybe not ever). Shutterstock will give you much quicker reviews, providing the feedback you need when getting started.
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It also depends on how you feel about getting 15% after jumping through all their hoops. If you do start uploading there, check out Deepmeta.
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I had to think seriously about accepting 20% when I started in 2006, I really don't think I would bother with them if I was starting now for just 15%. It isn't just the commission cut, I'm sure it's much harder for new contributors now because new images are buried in the search. There was a time when I quite liked istock but the past 2 years have been really difficult. They have really taken away my motivation to continue uploading and I find it hard to believe their incompetence lately. There seems to be a new problem every week and non-exclusive contributors usually end up worse off.
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I decided not to submit to iStock. After reading info available, how the treat their contributors and every day a new mck up, I didn't want the headache. It may be good money for some, but I think I would lose my mind with the clawbacks and all of the other nonsense.
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with a small portfolio, you won't see much of a returns at the beginning at is. it takes a while for your photos to "age" to enter the search engine. so, is will be a bit of a sleeper at the beginning.
in addition to a measely 15% (i get 60% at zoonar), it's tough to pass their quality inspection and even tougher to get anything editorial pass their inspectors. if it's not artifacts, then there's something wrong with the caption, even if the 4 Ws are completely in place.
it will just be so frustrating to upload, that you won't even want to meet your weekly quota of 20.
however, once you get pass all of this, is can still be a top (2 or 3) earner. shutterstock is a piece of cake in comparison.
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I'd be more concerned about the 15% royalty than the odd 8c commission you'll be getting. On average, iStock images sell for more than most other sites... it is the crummy commission that isn't so cool about iStock.
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That is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous best match shifts,
Or to take arms against a sea of rejections,
And by opposing end them? To upload, to keyword,
No more; and by so doing to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand programming bugs
That site is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To not join, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream ay, there's the rub...
For, if you don't join, what sales will come?
Actually I don't think you should join. We have enough competition already. ;)
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Trust me I am no competition for any of you LOL! My pics will only make yours look so much better that buyers will be attracted to even more of your pics thus I will increase everyone's sales in the near future...
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Submitting to Istock is a big pain - you'll have to disambiguate your keywords and if you're not careful with that your images will get rejected just for keywords; they pay ridiculously low commissions for an entry-level photog - 15%; you images probably won't be seen by anyone since they just tweaked their search to give better placement to their exclusive collections (and you're too late entering the game to be found by "downloads" search option); they reject images for "compression artifacts" or "overfiltered" when it's a raw image converted to tiff and saved ONCE as Jpeg with minimum processing;.... I can go on and on with this, but the question to you is why would you want to spend so much time and effort for something that's so unlikely to bring you any rewards?
I do submit to Istock - but I've been there since 2005 so my images have relatively decent placement in searches and I have someone handling submissions for me. On my scale it's just one of many agencies that we're dealing with, one more one less doesn't matter much. On your scale, you'll spend a lot of effort and frustration on something that's unlikely to bring any reasonable rewards.
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if you join iStock, use DeepMeta for uploading.
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If I were coming to MSG as a newbie today I'd be wondering about all the seemingly confilicting feelings about IS and whether it's worth submitting there.
- IS is a royal PITA to deal with, and has been systematically cutting commissions and de-emphasizing photos for new and non-exclusive contributors.
- IS has a big share of the market despite all their current troubles.
I might be typical: I'd like to make more money at microstock, but I don't want to deal with IS any longer, and while I'd like to see newer, better agencies start eating their lunch, I don't see that happening yet.
So I'm stalled. IS produced about a third of my sales and if I just cut them out, it's hardly worth continuing. But every day I see new reasons not to deal with them. I guess at this point I'd be producing images for some future market that I hope is going to develop.
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So I'm stalled. IS produced about a third of my sales and if I just cut them out, it's hardly worth continuing. But every day I see new reasons not to deal with them. I guess at this point I'd be producing images for some future market that I hope is going to develop.
jeez donīt open a new market to compete with IS.. after 2 years I am finally on the 50$ ehehe :)
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You do need a differant attitude, not getting rich over night here you know, in fact out of your salary of 8 quid per hour you just might have to fund all us members here at the Forum, then we wont spill the beans about your association with SS.
Suck on that caramel for a while. ;)
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yeah, I wouldn't expect any quick returns for new contributors coming into microstock these days. in fact, the expectation of quick returns has always seemingly resulted in new contributors becoming discouraged early on. they used to say get 100 images in your port and then you'll start to see regular sales. starting today, I think you'd need at least 500 exceptionally good images in your port to start seeing any regular sales, and even then you still need to manage your portfolio well, upload smart content and learn fast. I suppose it also depends on your definition of success. I know contributors who make ten times as much as me and aren't satisfied. and I know contributors who make ten times less than me and are satisfied.
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I do agree with the 500 to 1000 images (good ones) that you have to develop before any sales come on a regular basis thus prepared to work my tail off to reach that limit before I have any expectations whatsoever. I made my first on Can Stock Photo (CanStockPhoto) yesterday! It only took me 188 pics in my portfolio before I made my first sale- I just laughed to myself since I know my images are not shunning yet. I learning to process and so much on photography thus having simple objects is okay for me this year- I just took my first professional course and learn a lot on basics of what works best for my camera. The instructor taught using my camera thus I learn light metering, W/B, ISO, AP and some other very interesting things all within 8 hours time period. My next classes will be in lighting and compositions. My goal this year is to be making $100 per month and $500 by the end of next year. If I reach these goals I will than re-evaluate my side business and see if I can up my levels. Utlitmately I would love to make around $5K per month ($60K per year) say in 5 to 10 years before I retire from my day time job.
Tom
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Yeah, I would say those are realistic goals in regards to your experience and time you are spending.
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I do agree with the 500 to 1000 images (good ones) that you have to develop before any sales come on a regular basis thus prepared to work my tail off to reach that limit before I have any expectations whatsoever. I made my first on Can Stock Photo (CanStockPhoto) yesterday! It only took me 188 pics in my portfolio before I made my first sale- I just laughed to myself since I know my images are not shunning yet. I learning to process and so much on photography thus having simple objects is okay for me this year- I just took my first professional course and learn a lot on basics of what works best for my camera. The instructor taught using my camera thus I learn light metering, W/B, ISO, AP and some other very interesting things all within 8 hours time period. My next classes will be in lighting and compositions. My goal this year is to be making $100 per month and $500 by the end of next year. If I reach these goals I will than re-evaluate my side business and see if I can up my levels. Utlitmately I would love to make around $5K per month ($60K per year) say in 5 to 10 years before I retire from my day time job.
Tom
Don't want to spoil your motivation, but I can give you ourselves as an example.
My partner is an experienced professional photographer with ~10 years of experience. It took us 12 months at ~160 hours a month to reach 970$ per month with about 4K of invested in equipments alone.
We just invested another 7K in additional equipment and we expect to make ~2,000$ per month by the end of the year.
All figures I mentioned relate to INCOME and not PROFIT. Our business is still losing money every month.
IMO your numbers are a bit optimistic.
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PLEASE!!!
Somebody tell him! wake him up! before he goes spending his life savings! explain to him that he is about 3-4 years too late, the golden days are gone and before he sees his magical 60K per year, he will be pushing flowers from beneath. For all we know most agencies that are here today might be gone tomorrow and that everything can just be ruined and wrecked by agency political problems. Things totally beyond the contributors controle.
" The Devils greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didnt exist "
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Cripes. My wife sometimes calls me "Mr Doom and Gloom". But I fit right in here! :)
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If I were just starting today, I don't think I would bother with Istock. They have become the most contributor (and customer) unfriendly site in the business, and they are rapidly getting worse every day.
A number of us who have been there for years have become reliant on the income and it makes it difficult to leave, but just starting out you have the opportunity to just do business with only sites that treat you well and where you get a fair percentages of your sales.
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If you are not going to be exclusive elsewhere (what woudn't do much sense, in my opinion), why not? Istock pays less to independents, but sells image sizes at an higher price point. Maybe you'll get the odd 0.08 dollars sale, I don't know, but you will also get 3 or more dollars for big sizes. At many other subs sites, you'll just see subs, yes, 25 or 30 c, but for all your sales, small, big and superbig. Istock has the subs sites thinkstock, but you can opt out. And redarging the subscripcions at istock, you can get, as I'm got 35 dolar for a small... as odd as the 0.8 c, but real. Besides that, istocki s one of th agencies that sell more, probably number two in quantity and one in money.
That said, don't dream in instant money, not at istock not elsewhere. It is true that you are a bit late. To get a decent income will take you some time.
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I'm not photographer - photos are only very few percent of my portfolio. But as I worked for years in studio with professional photographers I learned a lot. I know in theory everything I need about ISO and white balance etc. But in spite of it I don't think that my photos are good enough for iStock (at least most of them), especially for initial approval and especially for initial approval for nonexclusive. No offence - I admire your enthusiasm and passion - but to be honest I don't think that any of your images would get through this procedure. I think you should learn by mistakes and make huge number of photos and postpone your decision about iS for next year.
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I have been doing stock for 4 months or so and do submit to istock. I basically use up the 18 per week allowance by submitting 3 a day, which takes about 5 minutes and means you build up a portfolio slowly (50-60% acceptance rate for me). Once I passed 100 or so in my portfolio sales become more regular (1-2 per week, so not loads).
As a relative newbie to stock, I would say yes, it is worth joining but don't rely on istock for a lot of income unless you go exclusive (which takes time- you need ?250 downloads). Saying that I have had more extended license sales there than elsewhere.
I definitely recommend shutterstock- they have very tough selection criteria and getting accepted is tricky but once you're in you will develop fast- the 3 day review times and unlimited uploads are advantages and you will learn what does well. Since developing my portfolio there, I have done a lot better on other sites- it is like being on a training course in itself.
Good luck
Another Tom :-)
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Tom like we have talked before here in the forum, take a step back or take ONE step and then aother..!
You can browse my portfolio, take a look at my pictures, take a look at my blog, 5k is a huge milestone, thatīs something beyond you can ever imagine, you have started months ago, still working to get approved at IS, still looking to improve your photograhy and deal with agencies.. you are thinking too fast, hold on buddy, things wonīt be that easy and you maybe never reached that (myself too for sure)!
I have started exactly 2 years ago, I have never heard of stock before that, I wouldnīt actually pick a SLR, I had a compact camera and didnīt know anything regarding composition or other, stock is after that, you need to see the other part before, I am still looking to it, to produce better pictures.. and you are thinking of 5k salary in 5 to 10 years?
After this two years I have achieved a lot of things (some that I guess never would) but overall I am far far away from success and earn a decent money, I had around 650$ for the month of March (after 2 years...).. It is hard every month, everyday always wanting more but money wonīt enter without great photos and hard work!
Nobody becomes a good photographer on a heart beat, take little steps, they will perhaps get you further but donīt dream to much! You may be able to do it but there might be HUNDREDS that are doing stock for 4 or 5 years and yet far from that 5k salary and they have stunning pictures!
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Once again great comments across the board. I have been very conservative on my camera equipment with a simple Rebel T2i and a fair lens 17-55 IS F/2.8 with basic lighting equipment - my total investment has been around 3k which includes CS5 (Student Edition). I have friends that make the same money as I do in the federal govt that have spent over 20K on their high end Canon Mark III or IV and they leave the camera in Auto mode - basically point and shoot mode but just want to look good while taking photos. I feel that lighting, composition and being creative is more important than going out and buying a ton of high end camera stuff. Let's face it if all you had to do was go out and get a Mark IV to make 60K a year in this business we all would run out and get that Mark IV.
In the last six months I have learn so much from sites like this one and taking courses to include CS5, camera raw and photography. I am going to take a lighting course this week and looking forward to shooting even better. It would be funny to make some good coin on just using a Rebel Canon. Kind of reminds me of my fishing days- I had a small tackle box with only 2 silver spoons and a few spinners and yet I could out fish the big shots that can in from the cities with thousands of dollars of Orvis equipment. They use to follow me when fishing because I could read the water, know exactly where to place my lure and how fast to retrieve it. I would come home with dinner almost every time! Now I must admit that my Grandfather taught me everything thus telling me that I didn't need a fancy pole or other things - He told me that I have to have the Passion and Desire that would lead to success. That included going out on the worst days in storms to nail the smart (large) trout while 90% of the other fishermen stayed home. My Grandfather was a master!
Thank you all for being so honest and right to the point. If I don't reach my goal no biggie but at least I will know how to take good photos and have fun which my day job doesn't provide LOL!
Tom
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^^^ Now I think you got it right. Forget the money. Be a pro at what you do, and most important ENJOY what you are doing. IMO follow these 2 rules and money will follow, be it in stock or else where.
Good gear would maybe give you an edge over your competition but it's not the gear that brings in the $$$.
I was surprised to hear for example that Sean uses one of the cheapest strobes on the market!
I think the best money you can spend is on education, that by far will have the greatest return on the money IMO.
Another course of action you can take is trying to get a job or volunteering as an assistant for an established pro photographer, that's how you really learn the business.
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The Rebel T2i is great for stock. I really think good quality lenses are more important than an expensive camera. If I was just starting out now, I wouldn't bother with photoshop. The Gimp is free and does everything I would need for stock. I still use Photoshop elements and a few free add ons. That has saved me a lot of money that I spent on better quality lenses.
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I would encourage you to join IS for one reason, the learning experience. Their acceptance criteria will teach you alot about image quality. I would forget about making money with IS; my sole reason for recommending you join IS is for the learning experience.
You can only upload 18 images a week, so it will take forever to get a port online. If you get 10 images a week accepted, you will only have 550 images after one year with IS; if you don't start now, you will have zero images on IS after then next year.