Author Topic: Who has had sales at Graphic Leftovers? (Read 68615 times)

rubyroo · « **Reply #225 on:** July 15, 2012, 07:28 »

I think Lisa hits the nail on the head here:

Quote from: lisafx on July 14, 2012, 17:04

For whatever reason, be it confusion about the name "Graphic" Leftovers, or because when GL started out they were more focused on illustration, 3d renders, etc. (they only began accepting people photography a bit over a year ago), or some other reason, the fact remains that illustrators seem to do a LOT better on GL than photographers.

It may be taking time for word to spread on their growing stock of photographs. Surely changing the name to 'GL' was a part of their strategy to change the perception that they are 'illustrations only' resource. In the meantime, their established buyers who know them well are still buying illustrations like billy-o (whoever he is).

Microbius · « **Reply #226 on:** July 15, 2012, 07:59 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 07:00

Microbius, looks like you picked that up straight from Wiki, which is wrong. The word 'photography' doesn't come from two Greek words otherwise it would be 'phosgraphy'. It comes from two Latin words: 'foto' which means 'light' and 'grafia' which means 'write/draw'. In Greek a drawing or design is actually σχέδιο not 'γραφω' which means 'write'. I'm Greek by the way and I've never associated the word "Graphics" with drawings just because γραφω or γράφει means to write.

Errr. no i didn't go to the wiki article, I actually missed the link in this thread, I just had the initial post then went away and thought about it.
I am not a native speaker so I have to go with your greater knowledge of Greek, could you tell me how you would use the word light in Greek this context:
"the wavelength of light ranges from deep red to violet"
I had thought φωτός (photos) was the correct word in Greek, as in:
το μήκος κύματος του φωτός κυμαίνεται από βαθύ κόκκινο έως ιώδες
i.e. the genitive form.

As far as the Latin goes that is even rustier than my Greek, but isn't light "lux" not "foto", in fact, I can't think that foto is actually a Latin word at all, any references for that?
Ditto "graphia", as draw is "ducere" and write "scribere"
Are you sure you aren't mixing up your languages or perchance pulling random words out of the air?

ETA: now I have been searching online and in my dictionary and all sources seem to concur that, yes photography is from the Greek, it would be great if you could provide a source that says it is from the Latin

Microbius · « **Reply #227 on:** July 15, 2012, 08:10 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 07:00

..... I really don't believe people sit there deciphering a word by looking at ancient Greek or Latin meanings.....

Me neither, but I do think that they associate the word graphics more with illustrations than photos, and you made that point that they don't because photography ends in graphy, and called people that thought otherwise stupid. Then you accused me of pilfering from Wikipedia. Then it all got defensive, but that's what happens when you start flinging invectives.

grafix04 · « **Reply #228 on:** July 15, 2012, 08:49 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 07:59

Errr. no i didn't go to the wiki article, I actually missed the link in this thread, I just had the initial post then went away and thought about it.
I am not a native speaker so I have to go with your greater knowledge of Greek, could you tell me how you would use the word light in Greek this context:
"the wavelength of light ranges from deep red to violet"
I had thought φωτός (photos) was the correct word in Greek, as in:
το μήκος κύματος του φωτός κυμαίνεται από βαθύ κόκκινο έως ιώδες
i.e. the genitive form.

As far as the Latin goes that is even rustier than my Greek, but isn't light "lux" not "foto", in fact, I can't think that foto is actually a Latin word at all, any references for that?
Ditto "graphia", as draw is "ducere" and write "scribere"
Are you sure you aren't mixing up your languages or perchance pulling random words out of the air?

ETA: now I have been searching online and in my dictionary and all sources seem to concur that, yes photography is from the Greek, it would be great if you could provide a source that says it is from the Latin

φωτός is not in the greek dictionery.

http://kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon

It's not in my hard copy dictionery either.

φως is the word for light. φώτα is the plural. Photo is φωτογραφία which was probably derived in recent times the same as photography.

Are you using google translator or something?

Microbius · « **Reply #229 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:01 »

Using your dictionary link:

Το λεξικό βρήκε 1 λέξη.
The dictionary found 1 word.
φωτός τού = light ( gen )
fotos tou

ETA: Oooops sorry, tick ancient Greek

Double ETA:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

Noun
φωτός n (fotós)
Genitive singular form of φως.

Triple ETA, if you wait till tonight I can phone my friend who's a modern Greek teacher and is also fluent in ancient Greek for more details. Maybe it is a form of the word not often used outside of text books? Also mainland Greek can be very different from Cypriot Greek so maybe that's it?

grafix04 · « **Reply #230 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:15 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 08:10

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 07:00
..... I really don't believe people sit there deciphering a word by looking at ancient Greek or Latin meanings.....
Me neither, but I do think that they associate the word graphics more with illustrations than photos, and you made that point that they don't because photography ends in graphy, and called people that thought otherwise stupid. Then you accused me of pilfering from Wikipedia. Then it all got defensive, but that's what happens when you start flinging invectives.

It all got defensive? I'm certainly not defensive, are you? You were using Greek words and since I'm Greek I corrected them. I also didn't accuse you of using wiki, I said it looks like you picked up the meaning from there. I was actually looking for a good source but there's none on the net. Wiki gives your definition with a Greek meaning and Wiki answers gives it with a Latin meaning. I remember reading in a photography history text book when I was young that it was derived from the Latin words and it made sense to me because I'm Greek because φωτό is not the correct Greek word for 'light'.

Also I didn't call buyers stupid, Lagareek did (in a roundabout way) when he wrote after someone posted the definition of the word "graphics"

Quote

"Sure! known that for around 30 years but buyers, micro buyers, do they know? doubt it! and thats the whole point. What you and I know is totally and utterly irrelevant.

After the majority here said they associate the word 'graphics' with illustrations only, I jokingly said that maybe I should assume buyers are stupid too. I wasn't calling anyone here stupid and still believe the majority of people associate the word graphics with all imagery because that's how it's defined.

If you've assumed I got defensive, then you've assumed wrong. I'm just offering my opinion about the word which I find interesting particularly because I reference it in my username.

I'm also interested in the reason why GL favors illustrators. I'd like to see the site grow because apart from the lack of sales (for me), I can't fault too much of the site and its terms.

Microbius · « **Reply #231 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:17 »

Okay just realised the problem. I didn't explain my original example well. The reason I went on about wavelength is that it is the word for light when something belongs to it. Like its wavelength. I should have given a definition for genitive. It is used where "light's" would be used in English.
Are you a native speaker or second generation, I guess maybe that is why you don't know it?

Microbius · « **Reply #232 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:21 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 09:15

If you've assumed I got defensive, then you've assumed wrong. I'm just offering my opinion about the word which I find interesting particularly because I reference it in my username.

I'm also interested in the reason why GL favors illustrators. I'd like to see the site grow because apart from the lack of sales (for me), I can't fault too much of the site and its terms.

I am sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion, and I agree that the site is a good one. I'm now just interested in the word too!

As far as I can work out the stuff about Latin is just completely and utterly wrong. Neither of the two words is actually Latin, I think I found that one reference you cited on wiki answers, but nothing else at all.

grafix04 · « **Reply #233 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:25 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 09:01

Using your dictionary link:

Το λεξικό βρήκε 1 λέξη.
The dictionary found 1 word.
φωτός τού = light ( gen )
fotos tou

ETA: Oooops sorry, tick ancient Greek

Double ETA:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

Noun
φωτός n (fotós)
Genitive singular form of φως.

Triple ETA, if you wait till tonight I can phone my friend who's a modern Greek teacher and is also fluent in ancient Greek for more details. Maybe it is a form of the word not often used outside of text books? Also mainland Greek can be very different from Cypriot Greek so maybe that's it?

lol If you like but we never use the word φωτός and it's not in the Greek dictionery or in the Greek/English dictionery I have sitting besides me. Perhaps it is ancient. Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps my photography text book was wrong. Who knows but I still believe buyers (graphic designers) don't associate GL with photos only. We can speculate all we like but unless we survey a bunch of buyers we'll never know.

Regardless though, I still believe GL needs to promote the photography side of their business to bring in more designers. That should benefit both photographers and illustrators.

Microbius · « **Reply #234 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:27 »

Fair enough, it was an interesting discussion. Thanks

ShadySue · « **Reply #235 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:28 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 09:15

It all got defensive? I'm certainly not defensive, are you? You were using Greek words and since I'm Greek I corrected them.

You must know that there's a difference between modern Greek and ancient Greek, but may not know that derivatives in English come from ancient Greek, often via Latin, (as you suggested), not modern Greek.

Microbius · « **Reply #236 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:35 »

I think that φωτός is actually the genitive singular for φως in modern Greek too, but how often do you use the genitive singular for light outside of a physics or poetry book?
I would guess very rarely, if ever. Maybe in Greek it is never used outside of Physics.

grafix04 · « **Reply #237 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:37 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 09:21

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 09:15
If you've assumed I got defensive, then you've assumed wrong. I'm just offering my opinion about the word which I find interesting particularly because I reference it in my username.

I'm also interested in the reason why GL favors illustrators. I'd like to see the site grow because apart from the lack of sales (for me), I can't fault too much of the site and its terms.

I am sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion, and I agree that the site is a good one. I'm now just interested in the word too!

As far as I can work out the stuff about Latin is just completely and utterly wrong. Neither of the two words is actually Latin, I think I found that one reference you cited on wiki answers, but nothing else at all.

It's all good but now you've got me sifting through Greek stuff and Latin dictionaries. My folks would be so proud

Let me know what your friend says because now I'm doubting myself.

grafix04 · « **Reply #238 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:45 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 09:17

Okay just realised the problem. I didn't explain my original example well. The reason I went on about wavelength is that it is the word for light when something belongs to it. Like its wavelength. I should have given a definition for genitive. It is used where "light's" would be used in English.
Are you a native speaker or second generation, I guess maybe that is why you don't know it?

I missed this post, sorry.

Quote

I had thought φωτός (photos) was the correct word in Greek, as in:
το μήκος κύματος του φωτός κυμαίνεται από βαθύ κόκκινο έως ιώδες
i.e. the genitive form.

I didn't respond to this because I don't recognize the word φωτός. μήκος κύματος seems right, length in Greek is μήκος and wave is κύμα, but φωτός isn't a word that I know so I assumed you might have picked it up from google translator?

My parents were born in Greece but I wasn't. We did speak it at home and I did go to Greek school. We didn't study photography though

grafix04 · « **Reply #239 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:48 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 15, 2012, 09:28

Quote from: grafix04 on July 15, 2012, 09:15
It all got defensive? I'm certainly not defensive, are you? You were using Greek words and since I'm Greek I corrected them.
You must know that there's a difference between modern Greek and ancient Greek, but may not know that derivatives in English come from ancient Greek, often via Latin, (as you suggested), not modern Greek.

Yes true but I can't find the word 'foto' in the online Latin dictionery, so now I'm not so sure. It is Spanish though. Who knows, maybe the wikipedia folks wrote my photography text book back in the day before they had the internet to mess up

grafix04 · « **Reply #240 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:55 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 09:35

I think that φωτός is actually the genitive singular for φως in modern Greek too, but how often do you use the genitive singular for light outside of a physics or poetry book?
I would guess very rarely, if ever. Maybe in Greek it is never used outside of Physics.

Wouldn't φωτός be in the my dictioneries though? We do use the singular word for light 'φός' quite often, eg. ανάβω τό φός - turning on the light.

We've turned this thread into a Greek class

Would anyone mind?

Microbius · « **Reply #241 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:18 »

how would you write light in this sentence in Greek:
πατάω τό κουμπί του LIGHT

I think that maybe that would be φωτός, if you ever structured the sentence like that in Greek.

Check out this article in the Greek Wikipedia, it's there in the title:
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A4%CE%B1%CF%87%CF%8D%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%84%CE%B1_%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85_%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

The "speed of light" in Greek is:
Ταχύτητα του φωτός

As far as it not being in the dictionary, I think that is in the same way as "light" is in the English dictionary but not "light's"

Microbius · « **Reply #242 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:27 »

Again, used a lot in this article when referring to properties of light:

http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%BD%CE%B1_%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

Once you start looking up science stuff in Greek on light it comes up a lot. I guess that's case closed?

grafix04 · « **Reply #243 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:44 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 10:18

how would you write light in this sentence in Greek:
πατάω τό κουμπί του LIGHT

I think that maybe that would be φωτός, if you ever structured the sentence like that in Greek.

definitely φός. πατάω τό κουμπί του φός - I'm pressing the light button.

Quote

Check out this article in the Greek Wikipedia, it's there in the title:
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A4%CE%B1%CF%87%CF%8D%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%84%CE%B1_%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85_%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

The "speed of light" in Greek is:
Ταχύτητα του φωτός

I don't really trust wiki. It could be translated using a dodgy translator. That's what most sites do and eventually they get real people to translate them (if they can afford it or find more people to donate their time).

Quote

As far as it not being in the dictionary, I think that is in the same way as "light" is in the English dictionary but not "light's"

No, both sigular and plural are there and just so you don't think I'm talking out of my a55 here's a snapshot of the page.

grafix04 · « **Reply #244 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:49 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 10:27

Again, used a lot in this article when referring to properties of light:

http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%BD%CE%B1_%CF%86%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82

Once you start looking up science stuff in Greek on light it comes up a lot. I guess that's case closed?

Perhaps science uses the ancient use of the word. Lol not really case closed for me but maybe case closed on this thread since we've taken it completely off course. I'd be interested to see what your teacher friend says though. Maybe PM me so we don't bore anyone else?

lisafx · « **Reply #245 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:50 »

Could someone shoot me a sitemail or something when this thread goes back on topic?

I was interested in sales at GL, but a bit tired of reading dozens of posts back and forth arguing semantics and ancient languages...

Microbius · « **Reply #246 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:52 »

Thanks for taking the time for the photo. Sorry, not plural, possessives, genitive singular. Light's not lights.

Honestly, have a search for anything on the speed of light in Greek and it is referred to the same way.
Ταχύτητα του φωτός
Or ray of light:
Ακτίνα φωτός
http://www.physics4u.gr/news/2000/scnews42.html
www. youtube.com/watch?v=oLjGJOP9Cb4#]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLjGJOP9Cb4#Η ταχύτητα του φωτός

Could you humor me and try asking your parents, I have a feeling that it is one of those things that you have to be a native speaker to know.
I will definitely ask my friend this evening too.

ETA sorry Lisa, I will stop posting now!

grafix04 · « **Reply #247 on:** July 15, 2012, 11:05 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 10:52

Thanks for taking the time for the photo. Sorry, not plural, possessives, genitive singular. Light's not lights.

Honestly, have a search for anything on the speed of light in Greek and it is referred to the same way.
Ταχύτητα του φωτός
Or ray of light:
Ακτίνα φωτός

Could you humor me and try asking your parents, I have a feeling that it is one of those things that you have to be a native speaker to know.
I will definitely ask my friend this evening too.

ETA sorry Lisa, I will stop posting now!

LOL I knew this had to be boring people, sorry Lisa. Last post just to answer Microbius' question. I'm interested in sales at GL too.

We don't use possessives in Greek the same way as we do in the English language. The word light 'φως' (I was spelling it wrong all this time) remains the same but for light's it's 'του φως' in modern Greek. 'του φωτός' is likely to be ancient?

As for my parents, they're no longer with us otherwise I would have called them. Your teacher friend is probably more reliable as I have a feeling it's ancient Greek.

On a side note, if anyone has a problem with the Greek Lesson 101, I don't have a problem having these posts deleted if you don't Microbius.

Microbius · « **Reply #248 on:** July 15, 2012, 11:11 »

Yeah no problem at all, or even moved to off topic!

As it is going anyway.........

In reply to the last post, possessives are usually different from simple nouns in Greek like:
άνθρωπος, singular
του ανθρώπου, singular possessive

ανθρωποι, plural
ανθρώπων, plural possessive

and so on.
I may expect light to be του φωτόυ but του φως that would be really strange?
Give me any other noun and it is the same (though obviously male, female or neutral gender). If it isn't the case with "light" it will be the only one I can think of that is the same in the singular and genitive singular

grafix04 · « **Reply #249 on:** July 15, 2012, 11:40 »

Quote from: Microbius on July 15, 2012, 11:11

Yeah no problem at all, or even moved to off topic!

As it is going anyway.........

In reply to the last post, possessives are usually different from simple nouns in Greek like:
άνθρωπος, singular
του ανθρώπου, singular possessive

ανθρωποι, plural
ανθρώπων, plural possessive

and so on.
I may expect light to be του φωτόυ but του φως that would be really strange?
Give me any other noun and it is the same (though obviously male, female or neutral gender). If it isn't the case with "light" it will be the only one I can think of that is the same in the singular and genitive singular

hmmm, not sure but you're right, 'του φως' must be wrong. You were right in a previous post when you mentioned that I would never use the word 'light's' in casual speak, but still, both 'του φωτόυ' and 'του φωτoς' look wrong to me. Maybe 'του φωτιoυ'? lol I don't know. We'll have to wait for your expert Greek teacher friend.

PS, sorry Lisa

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Author Topic: Who has had sales at Graphic Leftovers? (Read 68615 times)

rubyroo

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ShadySue

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lisafx

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