MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: onepointfour on July 17, 2014, 20:59
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and it's Malaysia's plane again...... :'(
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A crash after it got shot down by Russian rebels. I wonder how this is going to develop. Surely this will have consequences.
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Not a crash!
Shot down.
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140407&start=0 (http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140407&start=0)
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I know, I was confused at first. Someone on my fb wall posted about this one shot down, but I thought they were talking about the one that was missing from March was shot down. This airline must be about ready to go bankrupt from lawsuits. Even though it wasn't their fault someone shot a missile at them, the attorneys will claim they shouldn't have been flying there. Even tho the area they were in wasn't on the list of dangerous airspace. I feel bad for those who lost their lives onboard. :(
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It seems like Putin was laughing at all this sanctions and kept sending mercenaries and weapons until this happens...
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Putin's latest hunting trophy
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10405510_316972771803375_7307115156020589017_n.jpg)
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^ I voted that down for being in very poor taste. It could have been any one of us on that flight. It's also a **** cartoon.
(I don't often vote things down and from now on have decided to say why if I do).
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I'd rather guess it were Ukrainian forces who shot this plane down.
No point for rebels to make themselves even more "evil" in the eyes of the world. That would be just stupid.
Anyway, I'm really sorry for the people died and believe that this incident is not a good thing to make jokes/cartoons/whatever about. I totally agree with bunhill on that.
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Niakris you are wrong. Nobody can be fooled about the authors. We no longer live in the era of Soviet lies and there are too many independent sources to know the truth.
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Let me guess, those "independent" sources are actually dependent on US/Ukraine?
Just think about the motivations and the truth will get obvious.
Imagine you're US government and want to build "evil" image of Russia to justify introducing more sanctions against it (because EU doesn't want to support you).
What would you do? May be just tell Ukraine to shoot some civil plane at the conflict area, make up some fake call audio confirming your words and claim that rebels did it.
This way EU will get scared of the "russian threat" and will agree to introduce more sanctions, etc. This way you will have your hands free to do whatever you like in the conflict region because the whole world will see it as a counter-terrorist actions.
Now this makes sense.
Modern world really needs some critical thinking instead of blindly believing to the propaganda and biased news.
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Please lets stop arguing about who did this, the most important thing is that this is an awful tragedy and we all hope that such things will never happen again.
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Niakris you are wrong. Nobody can be fooled about the authors. We no longer live in the era of Soviet lies and there are too many independent sources to know the truth.
We do live exactly in era of lies even worse than ever before. EU is being lead by bunch of liars who have never been elected by nobody, that cannot be removed by nobody in exact same way that ex USSR used to function.
And peoples " right " to vote is actually an obligation because any legal way to renounce that right and to get yourself deleted from voters list will lead a person nowhere.
About this case, one can only have opinion as both sides had motive to shoot an civil airplane down to make the other side look even worse and Im really sad that normal people like in that airplane are paying the price of political madness and conglomerate greed standing behind them witch are leading this world officially.
My condolences to all families and friends of people who were aboard
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I would blame mostly western leaders for repeating same mistake they did in past allowing Hitler invade Czechoslovakia. Now they let Putin take Crimea. Until now they could say it is not our problem somebody else is killed. Not any more, citizens from their countries got killed.
As far as crash is concerned it would not be resolved who did it:
1. There is regular war in this area when investigators reach the site it would be nothing to find. Weapons are already hidden or destroyed.
2. Whoever pulled the trigger is no longer among living cause only this person's confession could reveal who made it happen.
It is always like that politicians play games and innocent are paying the price.
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The real cause of the whole Crimean conflict was the US inspiring the "revolution" in the Ukraine. Legal president was forced to leave the country under the threat of being killed/jailed. The new nationalist government would cancel the act allowing the Russia to keep its navy bases in the Crimea. This would be the pleasing result for the US but Putin couldn't let it of course.
Putin took Crimea just because he had to do it in order to protect navy bases in the Black Sea. I'm not saying in any way it was good. But he had no other choice.
So comparing him to Hitler makes as much sense as comparing any of the latest US presidents.
The whole second part of your post is very true though.
The most horrific part of the modern world is the people dying because of dirty politic games.
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(http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/natorussia.jpg)
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After the fall of USSR we thought that Russia will begin to understand and to live together with the rest of europeans but it seems that democracy is not compatible with autocracy.
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([url]http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/natorussia.jpg[/url])
USA gets blamed for everything. That's because it's easy to do. If none of those bases were there, we'd get blamed for anything that happens in those regions as a consequence of those bases not being there. And when something does happen we are always the first nation who is asked to help, give money, lend aid, lend military support, etc. We're not perfect for sure, but we are far better than virtually all of the nations looking to cause turmoil in the world.
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Tensions have been high between Ukraine and Russia since street protests forced former pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych from power in February. Russia subsequently annexed Ukraine's southeastern Crimea region, and a pro-Russian separatist rebellion has been raging in Ukraine's eastern Luhansk and Donetsk regions.
All three groups have the surface to air missile that can do this. Each blames the other.
Someone want to bring up gun control in the US again at this point. :o All these groups control weapons that can shoot down an airliner. What about former Soviet Union weapons control? This is Insane!
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([url]http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/natorussia.jpg[/url])
USA gets blamed for everything. That's because it's easy to do. If none of those bases were there, we'd get blamed for anything that happens in those regions as a consequence of those bases not being there. And when something does happen we are always the first nation who is asked to help, give money, lend aid, lend military support, etc. We're not perfect for sure, but we are far better than virtually all of the nations looking to cause turmoil in the world.
Please give a single example where someone asked US for the military support & help.
Most of the time it is the US invading some country claiming they have nuclear weapons/no democracy/whatever while the only real guilt of the target country is that they have the oil and refuse to follow the US directions. And no, they didn't ask for that "help".
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Please give a single example where someone asked US for the military support & help.
Most of the time it is the US invading some country claiming they have nuclear weapons/no democracy/whatever while the only real guilt of the target country is that they have the oil and refuse to follow the US directions. And no, they didn't ask for that "help".
I'll give you 2 off the top of my head but there's plenty more. Kuwait after having been invaded by Iraq. Britain during the Falklands War (the US provided material support for British operations).
Oh ... and not to mention the minor matter of the USA support of the Allies in the 1st & 2nd World Wars.
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US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.
Anyway, I don't see how that picture above can become incorrect due to the "help" argument.
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US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.
Anyway, I don't see how that picture above can become incorrect due to the "help" argument.
This is an opinion, so it is invalid as a fact. Gostwyck provided several facts for which you draw a conclusion based on opinion. As for the help argument I am not sure where you are getting that from. I said they would be asking for help if those bases weren't there, similar to what Gostywyck pointed out. No matter what our individual positions are, this whole thing stinks. Once the USA didn't act when Syria used gas (crossed the red line) Putin knew Obama was a *, all theoretic, and it was easy for him to invade Ukraine without fear of USA reprisal. And so far he was right.
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Actually all this discussion is just speculation based on the publicly available information (and most of it is either plain lie or at least biased).
We don't know for sure what is happening in all these places.
Besides that, our own opinion is also biased.
Thus, the discussion is pointless. We are throwing our opinions into it and claim these opinions are facts while this is not the case.
I think we should stop it since this topic is about the tragedy happened and it is not suited for the endless discussion about politics.
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Once the USA didn't act when Syria used gas (crossed the red line) Putin knew Obama was a *, all theoretic, and it was easy for him to invade Ukraine without fear of USA reprisal. And so far he was right.
Wrong there. It was actually the 'rebels' that deployed the Sarin gas against the Syrian population NOT Assad. It was later proved from the gas signature. That's why Obama didn't act.
Even at the time I found it incredible that Assad would have deployed the gas as he would gain no benefit and had much to lose. The rebels, on the other hand, had everything to gain if they could provoke the US into action.
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US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor? That's what got us into WWII and, at that point, it certainly was not obvious who was winning. So, this example is very valid.
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According to news reports, the Russian rebels shot down a civilian jet from Malaysia killing about 300 people from all over the world including 80 children - a horrible tragedy - my heart goes out to all of them and their friends and families - and yet this thread devolves into a USA-bashing thread.
One of my great uncles spent 4 years in a VA hospital 4 hours from his wife and daughter (who he didn't even have a chance to know until she was 6) after he was shot twice in WWII. He fought to defend his country (the USA) as well as to defend freedom in Europe and having discussed it with him many times (he lived to be 89) I can assure you that we did not enter the war because the good guys were winning.
I love my country despite its faults however, I recognize we are far from always right, but trying to make the US out to be the bad guys in WWII or in this Malaysian Air tragedy is simply absurd. I try to avoid politics on this forum but I couldn't let this gratuitous US-bashing go. >:(
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This thread is not an US-bashing thread.
More like Russia-bashing thread.
And americans aren't bad guys in this tragedy. Nor russians nor ukrainians are.
It is the result of dirty politics game and this is the most sad part of it.
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US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.
Anyway, I don't see how that picture above can become incorrect due to the "help" argument.
That is such bull. It can't even come close to being supported by the facts. The outcome of the war in Europe was even in doubt until after the D-Day invasion in 1944. Where did you learn history?
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Let me guess, those "independent" sources are actually dependent on US/Ukraine?
Just think about the motivations and the truth will get obvious.
Imagine you're US government and want to build "evil" image of Russia to justify introducing more sanctions against it (because EU doesn't want to support you).
What would you do? May be just tell Ukraine to shoot some civil plane at the conflict area, make up some fake call audio confirming your words and claim that rebels did it.
This way EU will get scared of the "russian threat" and will agree to introduce more sanctions, etc. This way you will have your hands free to do whatever you like in the conflict region because the whole world will see it as a counter-terrorist actions.
Now this makes sense.
Modern world really needs some critical thinking instead of blindly believing to the propaganda and biased news.
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Please lets stop arguing about who did this, the most important thing is that this is an awful tragedy and we all hope that such things will never happen again.
This is just full of typical Russian propaganda. The missile was launched from an area controlled by Russian separatists. Fact. It could only have come from them or the Russian military itself.
Putin is exactly like Hitler. He's a tyrant who refuses to give up power. He refuses to give his citizens freedom of speech and a free, independent press.
My one hope is that this episode will bring such crippling sanctions that old-style Soviet breadlines return until the people wake up and remove him from office.
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I've seen examples of russian propaganda and this is not even close to it.
This is unbiased PoV based on the facts and critical thinking. If you think about it you will understand that this is the only version that makes sense.
All other versions presented by news (both russian and anti-russian) are so obviously stupid... I'm really surprised someone believes them.
There are no news sources in the world giving the truth. Russian news are full with russian propaganda. Western news are full with anti-russian propaganda.
If you really believe that western news sources are unbiased and true that's sad.
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Western news media has a hell of a lot more credibility because it's independent and not controlled by the government. You can keep your head in the sand all you want, but denying that the missile wasn't shot by Russian-proxies or the Russian military is just not believable.
Saying Ukraine shot it down to get the rest of the world angry at Russia is just the dumbest thing I've heard. Nobody seriously believes that. Our own satellite imagery says that's not true, and those aren't biased.
As far as I'm concerned, this discussion isn't about politics. It's about justice, and who is going to pay for the murders of the people on that flight.
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The missile was launched from an area controlled by Russian separatists. Fact.
Maybe true. Perhaps true. Perhaps even probably true. But where is the actual evidence ? This speculation and vitriol is stupid. Especially on a stock photo discussion site.
If much of that country feels itself to be Russian then surely it would make sense for the Russian parts to be allowed to join Russia. In the spirit of compromise. But what do I know. I just want people to get on. It's a pity they don't have a ceasefire in the region and bring in outside bodies who everyone can trust.
The outcome of the war in Europe was even in doubt until after the D-Day invasion in 1944. Where did you learn history?
D-Day was a remarkable achievement and we should be very grateful to our parents and grandparents for fighting against the Axis.
It is also worth remembering that nearly 9 million Soviet soldiers died defeating the Axis Powers vs less than 500,000 US. Stalingrad was the turning point according to many historians.
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Western news media has a hell of a lot more credibility because it's independent and not controlled by the government. You can keep your head in the sand all you want, but denying that the missile wasn't shot by Russian-proxies or the Russian military is just not believable.
Saying Ukraine shot it down to get the rest of the world angry at Russia is just the dumbest thing I've heard. Nobody seriously believes that. Our own satellite imagery says that's not true, and those aren't biased.
Claiming that russian rebels shot that plane is the thing that is not believable.
Name a single benefit Russia has from shooting civil plane down? Do you think they are just idiots who like to kill civilians? Never heard anything as insane.
As far as I'm concerned, this discussion isn't about politics. It's about justice, and who is going to pay for the murders of the people on that flight.
I'd really like to see guilty persons to pay for these murders.
I'd also like to see those who bomb civilians in cities on rebel-controlled territory to pay for the murders they did.
However, I doubt it will happen :(
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It's not a claim. It's a fact.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/18/smoking-guns-russian-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-plane/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/18/smoking-guns-russian-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-plane/)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html)
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Since when a bunch of indirect proofs can be called evidence and serve as an absolute proof of guilt?
It is pretty easy to make up all of mentioned information.
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Videos, photos and audio recordings aren't indirect. They are direct proof.
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So we have a video of some missile launch, audio of two russian-speaking persons talking and photos.
We all seen old (6+ months old) photos being used as newly shot ones and claims that they are from the Ukraine while they were from the completely different place. How can we be sure this is not the case again?
And that audio... Seriously, give me 10 minutes and I'll record similar audio.
The only possible motivation behind that awful tragedy is the motivation to make up "evil" Russia image in the eyes of the world. Name a single other motivation that would make sense. There are none.
And if you have resources and power of the US government you won't hesitate to make up all these indirect proofs in few hours.
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Well, how about the fact that the Russian separatists and those backing them are so stupid and incompetent that they can't tell the difference between a civilian airliner and a Ukraine military aircraft?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-kerry-evidence-ukrainian-separatists (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-kerry-evidence-ukrainian-separatists)
What makes them "evil" is that they won't admit it and atone for it while looting the bodies of the dead for credit cards and refusing investigators access to the site.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-russia-victims-ukraine (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-russia-victims-ukraine)
You know, you have to do something really bad to piss off a Dutch person. I didn't even think it was possible.
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So you keep providing links to the news with unproven information.
Please give a single motivation for the russian rebels to shoot down a civil plane. Noone would do such horrific action without a strong motivation.
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Their motivation was that they thought it was a Ukrainian plane. They said as much in the recordings, and their leaders posted in celebration right after they shot it down, until they realized it wasn't a Ukrainian plane.
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In that case they would admit it. No point in denying it if you did it by accidence since it only worsens your guilt.
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In that case they would admit it. No point in denying it if you did it by accidence since it only worsens your guilt.
And yet, that's what they're doing because they are thugs and terrorists. They think they can cause enough question about it by moving the missile systems and denying that people will never know for sure, which will let Russia continue to support them by giving them "plausible deniability."
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The missile was launched from an area controlled by Russian separatists. Fact.
If much of that country feels itself to be Russian then surely it would make sense for the Russian parts to be allowed to join Russia. In the spirit of compromise. But what do I know. I just want people to get on. It's a pity they don't have a ceasefire in the region and bring in outside bodies who everyone can trust.
There are more than 3 million Russians living in the U.S., more than that part of Ukraine. Should we carve off a state and give it to Putin? Maybe give Alaska back?
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There are more than 3 million Russians living in the U.S., more than that part of Ukraine. Should we carve off a state and give it to Putin? Maybe give Alaska back?
[irony]Well, annexing Kosovo off Serbia was completely OK in the eyes of the US. So why not annex some state off the US for the sake of national independence?[/irony]
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Another false equivalence. The U.S. didn't annex Kosovo, nor did it have any interest in doing so. The only interest was in protecting people in Kosovo from being slaughtered by a leader who has been convicted of ethnic cleansing.
That's not the case in Ukraine. Those rebels exist only because Putin is using them to carve off some more land for himself while controlling Ukraine. They're proxy soldiers, not freedom fighters. They're little more than a fig leaf to make it look like Putin hasn't invaded.
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Another blatant lie.
Have you ever been in the place of conflicts to judge who is victim and who is aggressor?
I have friends living in different parts of Ukraine.
And those who live at Eastern Ukraine are saying that ukrainian air forces are bombing the civilians in their houses in the cities at the Eastern Ukraine.
I don't see a reason to believe they're liars. It is their homes and their lives, and they are scared.
Regarding Kosovo, you can ask serbians about how many of them was killed by albanians in Kosovo and who was performing ethnic cleansing there.
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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/383076/Slobodan-Milosevic (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/383076/Slobodan-Milosevic)
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Another blatant lie.
Have you ever been in the place of conflicts to judge who is victim and who is aggressor?
I have friends living in different parts of Ukraine.
And those who live at Eastern Ukraine are saying that ukrainian air forces are bombing the civilians in their houses in the cities at the Eastern Ukraine.
I don't see a reason to believe they're liars. It is their homes and their lives, and they are scared.
Regarding Kosovo, you can ask serbians about how many of them was killed by albanians in Kosovo and who was performing ethnic cleansing there.
All of which goes to the hands of Putin, whose soldiers and equipment are supporting so called "rebels" in Ukraine.
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There would not be any rebels if new ukrainian nazi government wouldn't try to suppress ethnic minorities and revoke their rights.
So all of this goes to the hands of the new ukrainian government and those who inspired the revolution.
[url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/383076/Slobodan-Milosevic[/url]
A quote from the article:
"During 1998 the long-standing dispute between Serbia and the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo deteriorated rapidly into open armed conflict between federal security forces and the guerrilla Kosovo Liberation Army, which had begun killing Serbian policemen and politicians."
so the albanians started killing serbian policemen and politicians and you call serbians aggressors ?
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Nazi, so passe. All they want is to have closer relations with the rest of Europe. Are all the other European governments *? That's what you're saying.
The current government of Ukraine was freely elected, and if any ethnic Russians were prevented from voting it was because the rebels blocked off voting stations.
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You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.
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There would not be any rebels if new ukrainian nazi government wouldn't try to suppress ethnic minorities and revoke their rights.
So all of this goes to the hands of the new ukrainian government and those who inspired the revolution.
[url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/383076/Slobodan-Milosevic[/url]
A quote from the article:
"During 1998 the long-standing dispute between Serbia and the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo deteriorated rapidly into open armed conflict between federal security forces and the guerrilla Kosovo Liberation Army, which had begun killing Serbian policemen and politicians."
so the albanians started killing serbian policemen and politicians and you call serbians aggressors ?
No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.
Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."
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No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.
Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."
I'm not saying his actions were the right answer to the albanian aggression but he was not the first who started it.
Imagine some ethnic minority in the US start killing the policemen and politicians. How will US deal with it? I don't think they'll just let them separate.
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You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.
How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.
This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.
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No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.
Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."
I'm not saying his actions were the right answer to the albanian aggression but he was not the first who started it.
Imagine some ethnic minority in the US start killing the policemen and politicians. How will US deal with it? I don't think they'll just let them separate.
No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.
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You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.
How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.
This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.
By overthrowing a legal government and replacing it with a puppet nationalist one.
Citizens of any nation have the right to legally elect another government if they don't like current one.
And I don't see how the new rebels against current government are any different from the rebels against previous government. It is all the same: attempt to not follow the directions of the government they don't like.
This whole fight IS in fact about the rights of ethnic minorities. The power Putin will have... Are you serious? This world is unipolar and the only powerful empire we have is the US who does whatever they want wherever they want. The picture posted above was describing the situation very fine: NATO attempts to circle Russia with its bases and claims its the Russia who wants the war. Please...
No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.
As I said, his actions weren't the correct answer to the situation. But actions of the kosovar albanians weren't peaceful and correct either. And it was albanians who provoked the conflict.
And how the bombing of the ethnic minorities in the Eastern Ukraine is any different from ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?
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You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.
How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.
This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.
By overthrowing a legal government and replacing it with a puppet nationalist one.
Citizens of any nation have the right to legally elect another government if they don't like current one.
And I don't see how the new rebels against current government are any different from the rebels against previous government. It is all the same: attempt to not follow the directions of the government they don't like.
This whole fight IS in fact about the rights of ethnic minorities. The power Putin will have... Are you serious? This world is unipolar and the only powerful empire we have is the US who does whatever they want wherever they want. The picture posted above was describing the situation very fine: NATO attempts to circle Russia with its bases and claims its the Russia who wants the war. Please...
No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.
As I said, his actions weren't the correct answer to the situation. But actions of the kosovar albanians weren't peaceful and correct either. And it was albanians who provoked the conflict.
And how the bombing of the ethnic minorities in the Eastern Ukraine is any different from ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?
The difference is that Milosovic targeted civilians on purpose. Ukraine isn't doing that. They are targeting Russian-backed proxy fighters.
This conflict is a 100 percent power grab by Putin. Everyone but you and his supports seem to see that. If they wanted the truth to come out, they would let international investigators into the crash site instead of interfering with it.
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They are targeting civilians on purpose: to provoke Putin to invade the Eastern Ukraine and give the US a fine reason to start aggression against Russia.
That would be the most pleasing ending for the US and of course Putin won't do that.
The most sad thing is the innocent people dying because of these dirty geopolitic games.
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I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry about the U.S. doing anything. Our president is too much of a worthless waste of skin to stand up to Putin.
(And yes, I can say things like that about my president without going to prison!)
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Russian citizens can say things like that about their president without going to prison as well.
The government attempts to reduce the freedom of speech in the internet but it is not that bad yet.
I don't like the tendency though.
(and yes, I can admit terrible actions of the side I seem to defend, since my PoV is unbiased, I'm not pro-russian or anti-US)
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Russian citizens can say things like that about their president without going to prison as well.
The government attempts to reduce the freedom of speech in the internet but it is not that bad yet.
I don't like the tendency though.
(and yes, I can admit terrible actions of the side I seem to defend, since my PoV is unbiased, I'm not pro-russian or anti-US)
You should not have gotten and negative votes for this comment, however I am not surprised you did considering the mentality of some participants.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
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nvm..
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Russia gets sanctions because one crashed airplane under unsolved conditions in "war zone" in other country, Israel gets more weapon for killing children!
WHAT A WORLD! WHAT A MORAL! WHAT A HYPOCRISY!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(