MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: helix7 on December 16, 2008, 01:55
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Rant:
I learned this lesson the hard way. After over 100 eBay transactions over the years, I think I let my guard down a bit too much and trusted people. I figured a buyer with a 99% positive feedback rating was good enough to not have to worry about being scammed. My mistake, and it cost me an iPod.
I sold a 5th gen video iPod for $120, and shipped it via USPS First Class Mail. I've done it this way before many times without incident. This time, however, the buyer is conveniently claiming that I took too long to ship it (even though I shipped it next business day), and that I ignore her emails despite replying promtly to every message she sent. In one email she asked how I shipped the iPod, and I replied with the USPS First Class Mail info. At that point things took a turn for the worse. Now she has filed a complaint with PayPal, saying the thing was never received. Seems that there is this nice little loophole in eBay and PayPal where if an item is shipped without a tracking number, the buyer can simply claim to have not received it and get their money back, while also keeping the item. So when I told the buyer that I shipped it First Class (meaning without tracking), that opened the door for her to contact PayPal and get her money back.
The worst part is this: When a claim is filed with PayPal, the money is instantly transfered from the seller's account. Then the seller must prove that they shipped the item (which is impossible to do if you send something First Class), and within a few weeks the buyers gets their money back. Case closed. Too bad, seller. You're crap out of luck.
So the harsh lesson here is this: While I wish I could continue to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that people on eBay are generally scum, and will steal the shirt off your back first chance they get. I have to assume the worst and always ship things with tracking. Which screws the honest people since I have to raise my shipping costs to cover this added expense, and they are the ones who really pay for it.
What is most amazing in the whole ordeal is how little PayPal and eBay do to help sellers. They make it so difficult to protect yourself, in any dispute they side with the buyer by default unless there is undisputable evidence to the contrary, and they have recently removed the negative feedback rating feature for buyers. So after all this, getting ripped off, I can't even leave negative feedback for this buyer to warn others of her scam. She gets away with it and moves on to her next victim, and no one can do a thing to stop her.
One other little tidbit for any ebay sellers out there that might save you some money: If you think tracking info is enough to protect you, think again. If your item sells for over $250, you need to have tracking info AND have required a signature at delivery. If it's left on a doorstep, you're not protected.
It's seller beware at ebay, and it's open season for crooks to steal at will. All they need to do is shop for auctions that ship via non-trackable mail and it's an unstoppable crime.
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Sorry to hear of your bad experience, helix7.
When I lived in the USA I bought and sold a lot of stuff on eBay. The only bad experience I ever had was as a buyer. I needed the item immediately and bought the item on condition that the seller would ship within a day or two - he waited 6+ weeks.
I shipped via USPS Priority and always used tracking numbers. I found the USPS to be amazingly quick, and the only complaint I ever received was when the buyer told me it was okay to leave the package at the front door without a signature, and USPS insisted on one even though I didn't pay for that option.
eBay is much more convenient in the USA than in Canada, and I've hardly used it since moving here 3+ years ago.
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what about paypal protection program? they can give your money back, if you payed via paypal.
I got over 100 things on ebay (including Canon EF 70-200 f4L IS and Canon EF 100 f2.8 MACRO lenses), without any problems. Only once package was lost and seller gave me refund.
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In Italy, which is a country where everyone thinks everyone else is a conman and nobody trusts anyone, I have seen people taking pictures of letters at the post office, in order to have proof of shipment... :-)
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Rant:
I learned this lesson the hard way. After over 100 eBay transactions over the years, I think I let my guard down a bit too much and trusted people. I figured a buyer with a 99% positive feedback rating was good enough to not have to worry about being scammed. My mistake, and it cost me an iPod.
I sold a 5th gen video iPod for $120, and shipped it via USPS First Class Mail. I've done it this way before many times without incident. This time, however, the buyer is conveniently claiming that I took too long to ship it (even though I shipped it next business day), and that I ignore her emails despite replying promtly to every message she sent. In one email she asked how I shipped the iPod, and I replied with the USPS First Class Mail info. At that point things took a turn for the worse. Now she has filed a complaint with PayPal, saying the thing was never received. Seems that there is this nice little loophole in eBay and PayPal where if an item is shipped without a tracking number, the buyer can simply claim to have not received it and get their money back, while also keeping the item. So when I told the buyer that I shipped it First Class (meaning without tracking), that opened the door for her to contact PayPal and get her money back.
The worst part is this: When a claim is filed with PayPal, the money is instantly transfered from the seller's account. Then the seller must prove that they shipped the item (which is impossible to do if you send something First Class), and within a few weeks the buyers gets their money back. Case closed. Too bad, seller. You're crap out of luck.
So the harsh lesson here is this: While I wish I could continue to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that people on eBay are generally scum, and will steal the shirt off your back first chance they get. I have to assume the worst and always ship things with tracking. Which screws the honest people since I have to raise my shipping costs to cover this added expense, and they are the ones who really pay for it.
What is most amazing in the whole ordeal is how little PayPal and eBay do to help sellers. They make it so difficult to protect yourself, in any dispute they side with the buyer by default unless there is undisputable evidence to the contrary, and they have recently removed the negative feedback rating feature for buyers. So after all this, getting ripped off, I can't even leave negative feedback for this buyer to warn others of her scam. She gets away with it and moves on to her next victim, and no one can do a thing to stop her.
One other little tidbit for any ebay sellers out there that might save you some money: If you think tracking info is enough to protect you, think again. If your item sells for over $250, you need to have tracking info AND have required a signature at delivery. If it's left on a doorstep, you're not protected.
It's seller beware at ebay, and it's open season for crooks to steal at will. All they need to do is shop for auctions that ship via non-trackable mail and it's an unstoppable crime.
both ebay and paypal are crooked - don't even get me started on paypal the thieves .... my blood boils over with fury at the mere mention of the name ... so my heart goes out to you Helix7 ...
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sounds fair enough to require a tracking number and a signature for over $250.
I bet there would be a lot more seller scams if this wasn't required.
You'll have to be more careful in future.
PS. I've been stung by sellers several times on ebay, the old feedback system sucked cos any unscrupulous seller would always leave retaliatory feedback, so buyers could never be honest. Much better this way round, just means that the seller has to make sure they cover their ass, a good plan in any business.
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sounds fair enough to require a tracking number and a signature for over $250.
I bet there would be a lot more seller scams if this wasn't required.
You'll have to be more careful in future.
PS. I've been stung by sellers several times on ebay, the old feedback system sucked cos any unscrupulous seller would always leave retaliatory feedback, so buyers could never be honest. Much better this way round, just means that the seller has to make sure they cover their ass, a good plan in any business.
i agree the new system is much much better and is getting rid of a number of dodgy sellers. 1800+ transactions on ebay, about 1 in 100 are bad with me as a buyer (6 bad ones with powersellers :( ), haven't had a bad one with as seller as yet, but thankyou for the info I will keep this in mind for future sales.
Rgds Phil
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
If I ship via USPS, then I always use delivery confirmation (which costs less than $1).
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both ebay and paypal are crooked - don't even get me started on paypal the thieves .... my blood boils over with fury at the mere mention of the name ... so my heart goes out to you Helix7 ...
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hoi ha - what problems have you had with paypal? Yikes!
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what about paypal protection program? they can give your money back, if you payed via paypal.
I got over 100 things on ebay (including Canon EF 70-200 f4L and Canon EF 100 f2.8 MACRO lenses), without any problems. Only once package was lost and seller gave me refund.
Buying on eBay is not the problem. PayPal and eBay both favor the buyer not the seller! This December 23, I will have been an eBay seller/buyer for 10 years. I have for all practical purposes quit.
eBay is going the wrong way and I can see an end to their long reign as king of the auction sites. I do expect them to fail in a big way and soon.
I may be wrong, but time will tell.
-Larry
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again... what Paypal problems so I can be on guard in the future?????
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Buying on eBay is not the problem. PayPal and eBay both favor the buyer not the seller!...
That's the issue I'm having. I'm willing to chalk this all up to experience and a lesson learned. But what is most disturbing is how heavily eBay and PayPal favor buyers' rights over sellers'. The policy seems to be that if there is any doubt about who is scamming who, favor the buyer. The scales are tipped so far in the buyers' favor that all it takes is the simple suggestion that a seller didn't ship an item and the money is immediately yanked back by PayPal.
... just means that the seller has to make sure they cover their ass, a good plan in any business.
eBay isn't a business for most people. I'm a casual seller, and after using eBay for many years I had no idea that I had no rights to any seller protection if I didn't ship items with tracking numbers. Of course the powersellers probably know all these things, but the casual seller might not and there are predatory buyers browsing the listings right now looking for just these sort of sellers. If a listing says USPS First Class as the shipping method, it's a golden opportunity for scammers and thieves.
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Buying on eBay is not the problem. PayPal and eBay both favor the buyer not the seller!...
That's the issue I'm having. I'm willing to chalk this all up to experience and a lesson learned. But what is most disturbing is how heavily eBay and PayPal favor buyers' rights over sellers'. The policy seems to be that if there is any doubt about who is scamming who, favor the buyer. The scales are tipped so far in the buyers' favor that all it takes is the simple suggestion that a seller didn't ship an item and the money is immediately yanked back by PayPal.
... just means that the seller has to make sure they cover their ass, a good plan in any business.
Apologies, for "business" read "business transaction"
eBay isn't a business for most people. I'm a casual seller, and after using eBay for many years I had no idea that I had no rights to any seller protection if I didn't ship items with tracking numbers. Of course the powersellers probably know all these things, but the casual seller might not and there are predatory buyers browsing the listings right now looking for just these sort of sellers. If a listing says USPS First Class as the shipping method, it's a golden opportunity for scammers and thieves.
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Buying on eBay is not the problem. PayPal and eBay both favor the buyer not the seller!...
That's the issue I'm having. I'm willing to chalk this all up to experience and a lesson learned. But what is most disturbing is how heavily eBay and PayPal favor buyers' rights over sellers'. The policy seems to be that if there is any doubt about who is scamming who, favor the buyer. The scales are tipped so far in the buyers' favor that all it takes is the simple suggestion that a seller didn't ship an item and the money is immediately yanked back by PayPal.
... just means that the seller has to make sure they cover their ass, a good plan in any business.
eBay isn't a business for most people. I'm a casual seller, and after using eBay for many years I had no idea that I had no rights to any seller protection if I didn't ship items with tracking numbers. Of course the powersellers probably know all these things, but the casual seller might not and there are predatory buyers browsing the listings right now looking for just these sort of sellers. If a listing says USPS First Class as the shipping method, it's a golden opportunity for scammers and thieves.
The policy of "The customer is always right." has been with us for a long time. If you want to be in business you need to get used to it.
Also, If you don't have any tracking information how can anyone possibly know you have been ripped off? USPS does lose things. Packages do get stolen from doorsteps. It is up to you to protect yourself. Why would anyone believe you over your customer? It is just your word against theirs. Without some basis for deciding their is no reason for you to be compensated any more than for your customer to lose out on what they bought.
fred
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I don't know much about that, but, reading this thread, I wonder... Why if you sell with tracking number and the the buyer claims that the box was empty, or that there was a brick inside instead of the bougth article?
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Wow! What a harsh lesson! I know $120 is a good amount of money, but I am glad it happened with the ipod than, lets say - a DSLR or something.
I always include tracking but have not required signatures before. Will definitely do so in the future.
I have noticed that ebay has also changed their policy so that negative feedback for buyers doesn't count toward their feedback rating, or something like that, so buyers don't have to worry about getting negative feedback after pulling something like this.
As a seller I still wait until I get positive feedback from the buyer before posting any feedback for them. I got burned once a long time ago by leaving positive feedback for a buyer first. I never heard from her for 6 weeks and then she claimed that a part was missing from the (factory sealed) box.
It was pretty obvious she lost the part and was demanding a replacement, which I looked into, but could not get for her. She left me very nasty feedback and I was SOL because I had already given her positive feedback. That was my only negative experience with Ebay so far, thank goodness.
Best of luck trying to get this sorted out Mike...:(
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The policy of "The customer is always right." has been with us for a long time. If you want to be in business you need to get used to it.
Also, If you don't have any tracking information how can anyone possibly know you have been ripped off? USPS does lose things. Packages do get stolen from doorsteps. It is up to you to protect yourself. Why would anyone believe you over your customer? It is just your word against theirs. Without some basis for deciding their is no reason for you to be compensated any more than for your customer to lose out on what they bought.
I'm a customer, too. I'm a customer of eBay. I'm not an ebay powerseller, I'm a casual user just trying to get rid of some stuff I don't need anymore. It seems that as far as eBay is concerned, though, powerseller or not, it's my problem to protect myself, whereas buyers have all the protection measures by default.
You are right that I don't know for sure that I was ripped off. But I'm pretty confident that this is the case. The buyer has been lying through the dispute process to make it look like I completely flaked on the deal. They lied about when they made payment, lied about me not answering questions, etc. I've defended myself in the dispute claims, explaining my side of the story, and she has now just stopped communicating with me and PayPal. And according to PayPal's policies she has every right to not explain her side. She can just file the dispute, claim some bogus accusations and she gets her money back. She hasn't even responded to the lying even though there is clear evidence in the PayPal records of when payment was sent and I still have copies of the email exchanges to prove communication took place. Even caught in a clear lie, it doesn't matter and she knows it. All she has to do is sit and wait for the dispute deadline to pass, and she gets her money back. She also has some negative feedback from when sellers could still leave feedback for buyers. I have a flawless feedback record, 107 positives and zero negatives, but that doesn't mean anything. She'll get her money back, and keep the iPod, and there is nothing I can do about it.
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I assume you knew ebay's and paypal's rules going in and if you looked up the negative feedback before you sold to her you should have known the risk you were taking. That is what risk is all about - sometimes you lose. (Don't feel bad Lehman brothers and a whole lot of other financial institutions don't seem to understand risk or protecting against it any better than you do.)
You pays your money - or ships your ipod - you takes your chances.
fred
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I'm not saying I'm blameless here. More disturbing to me is that the unaware seller has no recourse, no protection, and no way to warn other sellers about buyers now that we can't leave negative feedback anymore. This buyer had some negatives, but not many, not enough to make me worry (obviously my instincts on that one were wrong). And now, in a situation where I should be able to leave some negative feedback to warn other sellers about this scammer, I can't even do that. But I bet she will leave negative feedback for me.
My situation isn't fixable, and I just need to accept that I lost this time. Learning from that, it won't happen to me again. But it will continue to happen to many many more sellers who are as unaware as I was just a week ago about these con-artist buyers and how easily they get away with theft.
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I for one appreciate this warning from you HELIX.
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I really appreciate you telling the story - especially as I'm sure you realized you'd get some folks telling you it was all your fault.
That old saying about it's better to learn from others' mistakes than your own - I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your sad story. Sad, because there's a lot of decent people and some real scumbuckets. As you said, the honest folks have to pay for tracking and signature confirmation (which can be inconvenient to the buyer if they'd prefer the package to be left on their porch) because of the scam artists.
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I don't know much about that, but, reading this thread, I wonder... Why if you sell with tracking number and the the buyer claims that the box was empty, or that there was a brick inside instead of the bougth article?
If there is proof of receipt, then they have a different process in which you need a third party to testify you did not receive the item described in the auction. I once received a partially faulty mobile phone and did not want to involve third parties, therefore never got anything back from Paypal. You can get screwed even as a buyer... :)
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Well i use Ebay alot both buying and selling and in the three years i have been a member no trouble whatsever.Touch wood/Jlocke's left leg...oops sorry another secret revealed.
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sorry to hear about it. Paypal saved my butt when a company i bought a lens from went broke. I had a suspicion about this and they quickly refunded my money.
I never send anything without proof of postage. Lesson learned from other experiences.
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in US tracking is avaialble for ANY class of mail -- i use delivery confirmation all the time w media mail. paypal accepts that as a tracking method -- though amazon doesnt
steve
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A couple of years back I sold a few things on ebay with no problems at all.
A couple of months ago I sold an iMac, since I bought a laptop. It sold for over $500. The buyer paid me promptly and I shipped the computer next day, UPS with tracking info. Paypal would not release the money to me until a) the buyer received the shipment and Paypal could verify tracking info or b) the buyer left positive feedback on ebay.
I provided BOTH things and yet Paypal would not release the money. After speaking to three different people who gave me various sorts of runarounds and told me there wasn't anything they could do, I finally spoke to a supervisor (about three days later) who released the money.
I use Paypal to receive all of my microstock payments and never have an issue, but I will NEVER sell anything on ebay again. Ebay and Paypal are linked so closely that it seems like the way to go. My beef isn't really with ebay, but with the Paypal connection.
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A couple of years back I sold a few things on ebay with no problems at all.
A couple of months ago I sold an iMac, since I bought a laptop. It sold for over $500. The buyer paid me promptly and I shipped the computer next day, UPS with tracking info. Paypal would not release the money to me until a) the buyer received the shipment and Paypal could verify tracking info or b) the buyer left positive feedback on ebay.
I provided BOTH things and yet Paypal would not release the money. After speaking to three different people who gave me various sorts of runarounds and told me there wasn't anything they could do, I finally spoke to a supervisor (about three days later) who released the money.
I use Paypal to receive all of my microstock payments and never have an issue, but I will NEVER sell anything on ebay again. Ebay and Paypal are linked so closely that it seems like the way to go. My beef isn't really with ebay, but with the Paypal connection.
eBay owns PayPal ... if you deal on eBay your stuck with them. That is why I quit after 10 years.
-Larry
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I also don't like the marriage between eBay and PayPal, but luckily never had problems both selling and buying stuff on eBay. It's good to know about these kinds of things happening there.
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I assume you knew ebay's and paypal's rules going in and if you looked up the negative feedback before you sold to her you should have known the risk you were taking. That is what risk is all about - sometimes you lose. (Don't feel bad Lehman brothers and a whole lot of other financial institutions don't seem to understand risk or protecting against it any better than you do.)
You pays your money - or ships your ipod - you takes your chances.
fred
that's not how ebay works -- the seller cant see a buyers fdbk b4 they bid; and it would take a lot of time to look afterwards -AND ebay doesnt look kindly on selers who cancel legitimate bids.
with the new fdbk system it wouldnt matter anyway - since sellers cant leave neg fdbk
steve
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I also don't like the marriage between eBay and PayPal, but luckily never had problems both selling and buying stuff on eBay. It's good to know about these kinds of things happening there.
it'll be even closer soon -- ebay will soon forbid payment by check or credit card [they eliminated cash sales last year]
you can use an alternate elec payment system, but those will be a minority
s
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it'll be even closer soon -- ebay will soon forbid payment by check or credit card [they eliminated cash sales last year]
Maybe check, but they'll never forbid payment by credit card. If they did that they'd lose a large chunk of their business.
I use to sell a few things every once in a while at ebay but then the fees they started charging became so outrageous that it wasn't worth.
The main reason that paypal decides most things in favor of the buyer is that most buyers buy with credit cards and with credit cards the customer is allowed to dispute charges and the merchant normally gets screwed (offline too). If they didn't side with the buyer then paypal would be stuck with the bill every time a customer disputed a credit card charge.
ADVICE:
I would never use paypal to transfer money or to get my microstock earnings because the way US laws are written, Paypal is not subject to the normal laws and rules for processing transactions. You're basically subject to the whims of eBay.
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Please don't mix up paypal and ebay.I put my earnings from istock into my paypal account.I then transfer the funds from paypal to my curent bank account with NO charge over £50.
I happy with this arrangment as most of the money i earn from my photos will be re-invested in camera kit.
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Please don't mix up paypal and ebay.I put my earnings from istock into my paypal account.I then transfer the funds from paypal to my curent bank account with NO charge over £50.
I happy with this arrangment as most of the money i earn from my photos will be re-invested in camera kit.
Shank, Paypal is owned by ebay. Paypal is ebay. How do you not mix up paypal and ebay? I'd never use paypal to transfer funds because it is an unregulated financial company. It's like giving your money to Bernard Madoff, it's a black box and you don't know what will happen with your money.
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it'll be even closer soon -- ebay will soon forbid payment by check or credit card [they eliminated cash sales last year]
Maybe check, but they'll never forbid payment by credit card. If they did that they'd lose a large chunk of their business.
....
80-90% of ebay's transactions are already settled thru paypal - you'll still be able to use credit card, but unless the seller has a merchant account, you'll still be using paypal
steve
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Please excuse ying yang.He is not been well of late...
Paypal is a perfect finanicial solution for your banking needs..period.
Ebay is a place you sell your unwanted crap or buy some more..period.
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Please excuse ying yang.He is not been well of late...
Paypal is a perfect finanicial solution for your banking needs..period.
Ebay is a place you sell your unwanted crap or buy some more..period.
There is a big bridge in New York I'd like to sell. It's called the Brooklyn Bridge ...... are you interested? ;D
-Larry
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And I know Paypal has had security issues, but it costs me $0 for the transfers I do (as opposed to Moneybookers who charge for every transaction) and as soon as the money is put into Paypal I transfer it out. My risk of loss is very minimal. I would NEVER leave thousands in there, or even hundreds, that's for sure.
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Sorry you had a bad experience selling. But if you would have taken the time to not be the unsuspecting seller this wouldn't have happened. It has always been policy for you to be able to prove shipment. You could have used USPS delivery confirmation and more than likely got it for free if you did your mailing label through PayPal. Or even online at USPS. While I agree that eBay is going in the wrong direction this last year or so, I believe you have no one to blame but yourself. It is up to you to protect yourself. Again I am sorry you had a bad experience. I have had a few also with sellers and buyers.
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Please excuse ying yang.He is not been well of late...
Paypal is a perfect finanicial solution for your banking needs..period.
Ebay is a place you sell your unwanted crap or buy some more..period.
There is a big bridge in New York I'd like to sell. It's called the Brooklyn Bridge ...... are you interested? ;D
-Larry
No joke. And shank, while you're buying the Brooklyn Bridge I know this great investment fund you can put your money in. It's run by Bernard Madoff and he's an investment genius. Look shank, paypal is not a bank and you shouldn't treat it like one. If you're ok with giving an unregulated company your money than that's ok with me.
For those that aren't as trusting as shank you should know that moving the money from your paypal account to your bank account doesn't mean your money is safe. Your contract with paypal authorizes paypal to make ACH withdraws from your bank account without notifying you. Because paypal is NOT a financial institution by law it is not subject to the laws and regulations that regulate banks. You have no recourse if you have money "deposited" on paypal and use that money to purchase items. The only safe way to use paypal to accept money is to have two seperate bank accounts. The first one is linked to paypal, the other is not. When you withdraw money from paypal into account #1 you should immediately transfer that money to account #2 so that they can't get the money back through use of a ACH transaction if, for instance a buyer says the thing you sold them didn't arrive and disputes the charge to his/her credit card.
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The Bridge is mine and i shall increase the toll charge in the new year.
Ying Yang your financial advice is noted.If something aint broke why fix it.istock>>paypal>>barclays bank>>>wallet>> brothel ::)
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The Bridge is mine and i shall increase the toll charge in the new year.
Ying Yang your financial advice is noted.If something aint broke why fix it.istock>>paypal>>barclays bank>>>wallet>> brothel ::)
;D
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Try doing a quick exchange rate on $500 to UK Stg using Paypal and then compare that exchange rate on www.xe.com. We're not just talking a few measly cents either side of the daily rate, we're talking about double figure rip-off's!!
I swear to God there's some muppet in PP rubbing his hands together with glee everytime I do a banktransfer. It's daylight robbery and no matter what spin you put on it, they are probably the most dishonest bunch of crooks I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.
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With regards to PayPal in eBay transactions, my view of things has definitely changed after this experience. I used to wonder why sellers charged what seemed to me like excessive shipping rates, but now I realize that I'm the one who has been charging too little for shipping and using the cheaper shipping options. In trying to keep buyers happy, I got burned. Obviously now it has to be tracking number and delivery confirmation on all items, even if that mean more cost to buyers. Plus with the way PayPal robs sellers on transaction fees, it's no wonder the sellers have to pad their shipping costs.
Most eye-opening to me is the notion that buyers are king as far as PayPal is concerned. I wrote to PayPal to find out why they even allow buyers to file disputes at any time after a transaction is complete, even within a few days of sending payment. As expected, no response. But it seems to me that they must know that some buyers are abusing the system, filing disputes just to reclaim payment when they really did receive the item, and yet PayPal really doesn't seem to care. I have to imagine that since it is so easy to file a dispute and get a refund if a seller doesn't use tracking numbers, this kind of fraud must happen on a daily basis. No doubt many crooks know about this loophole, and use it to their advantage frequently. And what is PayPal's response? Not only do they not seem bothered by the problem, but they take steps to make it as easy as possible for someone to file a dispute and get their money back. I bet you could file a dispute the day after sending payment and the refund would be happily processed by PayPal. And what recourse does the seller have? Nothing. Not even feedback anymore, meaning no way to warn other sellers about a con-artist buyer.
I now know to protect myself when using eBay. But how many other sellers out there don't? How many sellers are getting ripped off every single day? It's a sad state of affairs for sellers at eBay and PayPal.
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Another type of scam going on, watch out:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/03/new_ebay_fraud.html
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So when I told the buyer that I shipped it First Class (meaning without tracking), that opened the door for her to contact PayPal and get her money back.
So the harsh lesson here is this: While I wish I could continue to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, the fact is that people on eBay are generally scum, and will steal the shirt off your back first chance they get.
As much as I feel for you, to expect someone else to pickup the bill for your mistake is not right, maybe the Ebay Buyer is telling the truth and the Driver, Postman, Warehouseman or one of the many other people that handled the package ripped it off, that can happen as well, Ebay are aware of most scams and if this buyer has a claims history they will act.
If I buy or sell an Item for $5.00 I will only use a signed for service, or collection in person and that is all I would accept, not because I do not trust the seller or buyer, but because things do get "Lost in Transit", I recently purchased a Laptop, I was out when it was delivered, and when I got home there was a "Left with Neighbour" card, but no parcel with the neighbour so I went straight to the carriers depot, when the driver returned it was "Found" in the van.
I send my expences which have no value to anyone else in weekly, the only time they were sent not signed for they were "Lost", it is just a peace of mind more than a monetry reason that I will not use an un-recorded service no matter what the value.
The real lesson you have learned here: Not all people on Ebay are Scum, some people in all walks of life can be, and you run a risk and are responsible to cover the cost if you send an item unrecorded or not-tracked and it is "Lost in Transit".
David (106 Ebay Transactions with no problems)
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The real lesson you have learned here: Not all people on Ebay are Scum, some people in all walks of life can be, and you run a risk and are responsible to cover the cost if you send an item unrecorded or not-tracked and it is "Lost in Transit".
David (106 Ebay Transactions with no problems)
David, You will eventually meet someone on ebay that will make wonder why you ever sell there. I'm fairly careful but got this guy a couple months who insisted I sold him a dirty lens. Which I didn't. He screamed for a refund, which I offered. He was abusive, arrogant and a real PITA. He wouldn't take the refund offer unless I sent him the money first including shipping. Yeh right. In the end he offered to settle by giving each of us +ve feedback and calling it a day. I did and received abusive -ve feedback the next day. Then followed by taunting, childish emails. I reported him and hope they kicked his sorry ass off the site.
This whole time PayPal holds your money for up to 21 days because they are dealing with items which can cause problems. No thanks, Craig's List works well. Collect the cash and everyone walks away happy. eBay is rife with rip off artists of every shade.
Peter
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I can't believe I have got to page 4 of this discussion and no-one has mentioned ebid.net or the Google Checkout payment system.
With all of ebay's upheavals over the past 18 months or so,ebid.net (which has been going for about 10 years now), has seen a huge increase in its membership.
This has mainly been sellers, fed up with being ripped off by ebay AND paypal (rising fees, restrictions on payment methods, paypal forced down their throats, not being able to leave non-performing buyers neg feedback... ... ... ).
The latest being a maximum shipping charge of £2.75 for books - this does not cover sufficent insurance for items over £36 or even allow for trackable post. the upshot being that sellers have to (again) raise their start or BIN price (again) to offset fees and postage costs - this has further implications when items get lost or missing in the post.
Simply put, it is becoming ridiculously difficult for any one man seller to make a living from ebay.
Many of those sellers have moved over to ebid.net - however, the ebay buyers who don't have to worry about fees etc are staying put.
Ebid is FREE to sell with small Final Value Fees which you don't pay if you don't use Gallery and have Seller+ membership.
Ebid allow Google Checkout, which is cheaper for the seller to administer. It is also easier from the buyer's point of view as they don't need a paypal balance.
Ebid is also pretty much a buyer's market at the moment.
The whole community is still small enough to keep an eye on scammers, who are dealt with more or less immediately. All sellers must be verified, as (I think) are buyers. no-one is allowed to have two or more accounts , not even a forum posting ID.
People are afraid of change and may be timid to try ebid.net and Google Checkout (either as seller or buyer).
At least you all know of them now.
http://ebid.net/ (http://ebid.net/)
http://checkout.google.co.uk/ (http://checkout.google.co.uk/)
For non=UK http://checkout.google.com/ (http://checkout.google.com/)
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David, You will eventually meet someone on ebay that will make wonder why you ever sell there.
Peter
Peter I understand that there are people on Ebay and in all walks of life that will try to scam you, but the OP stated The fact is that people on eBay are generally scum, and will steal the shirt off your back first chance they get.
As ebay users that generalisation is you and me, but most people are honest and try to make millions of transactions properly, and as always we read about the few bad deals, as the OP has said it could have been avoided.
David