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« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2018, 12:10 »
0
Aren't Muslims Right Wing extremists though?...most of their beliefs about society such as the role of women views on homosexuality, capital punishment etc look pretty right wing to me. They certainly aren't left wing libtards ;-).

Even so, they don't form a majority. Therefore "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

PS. on the other hand, Sharia forbids interest paid on loans of money, so one can argue that they are Marxists.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 12:17 by Zero Talent »


« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2018, 13:05 »
+3

muslims = terrorists
mexicans = rapists illegals
gypsies = thieves
russians = drunks
french = arrogants
british = bad teeth
germans = fascists
americans = fat

Most generalization come from facts adulterated and expanded. Italians are mobsters, truth is, too many were in the past, but they had Jewish accountants. Most terrorists are Muslims, not most Muslims are terrorists. Most of the gangsters were Italians, most Italians were not. Most of the drug dealers are Black, not most African American's are drug dealers. Russians are drunks, but not the majority. Brits actually don't have bad teeth, it's a false stereotype. American's are generally overweight compared to the rest of the world. Gypsies were thieves and transients. German's are arrogant, not the French, but the French are snobs about their cuisine?  :)


All good, except that "Most terrorists are Muslims" is not true for the United States.
In the USA, there were almost twice as many terrorist incidents by right-wing extremists as by Islamist extremists.
We can add the mass-shooter from the recent attack in Florida to this list of white American terrorists.


Right wing extremists?? you mean suicide bombers and all that lark, driving trucks or cars into masses of people??  who were the right-wingers doing this?

OK, I take that back, since I don't want to start debating about what and who are right wing extremists, left wing extremists or unaffiliated extremists.
Let me rephrase, to properly explain that "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

In the USA, there were almost twice as many terrorist incidents by non-Muslims as by Islamist extremists.

Data is widely available, for example here: https://apps.revealnews.org/homegrown-terror/

Decide for yourself if their definition of right wing extremists or left wing extremists is correct. The fact is that none of these two categories, forming a large majority, contains muslims.

Therefore, the statement "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

And I stand corrected as well. Those left wing terrorists, blowing up and burning down buildings scare me, right wingers with all their guns and military compounds are also over the edge, but the religious fanatics, any of them, are the scariest people of all in the US. Left, Right, Muslim, Christian or anything else. Second only to political fanatics who can't see outside their party lines.

Depending on whatever a terrorist is, I'll concede that it's possible that most terrorists in the US are possibly not Muslim, looking at the totals and what constitutes terrorism. For example California is now a terrorist state because of the political leanings, the laws and the unamerican activities like harboring criminals plus the oppressive laws against everything from plastic bags to charcoal grills.

You're right, most terrorists in the US are not Muslims, they are the religious or political extremists.

« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2018, 13:06 »
0
Aren't Muslims Right Wing extremists though?...most of their beliefs about society such as the role of women views on homosexuality, capital punishment etc look pretty right wing to me. They certainly aren't left wing libtards ;-).

Even so, they don't form a majority. Therefore "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

PS. on the other hand, Sharia forbids interest paid on loans of money, so one can argue that they are Marxists.  ;)
Yes the Left/Right dichotomy doesn't really work....They certainly aren't capitalists!

« Reply #103 on: February 19, 2018, 13:22 »
+1
Aren't Muslims Right Wing extremists though?...most of their beliefs about society such as the role of women views on homosexuality, capital punishment etc look pretty right wing to me. They certainly aren't left wing libtards ;-).

Even so, they don't form a majority. Therefore "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

PS. on the other hand, Sharia forbids interest paid on loans of money, so one can argue that they are Marxists.  ;)
Yes the Left/Right dichotomy doesn't really work....They certainly aren't capitalists!

Yeah, because there are many flavors of "left" and "right". It is not only about where the MPs choose to sit in the parliament.

It is not only about the position on economical freedoms or social freedoms. It is a more complex combination, which begins to make more sense if we see it in two dimensions.
 
See the attached matrix.

The matrix can explain why American liberals or progressives (Obama style) would sit on the right side, in most European parliaments.
Trump is shifting America from Liberalism/Progressivism up in the Nationalism box, beyond the classical GoP Conservatism.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 14:04 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #104 on: February 19, 2018, 14:24 »
0
Aren't Muslims Right Wing extremists though?...most of their beliefs about society such as the role of women views on homosexuality, capital punishment etc look pretty right wing to me. They certainly aren't left wing libtards ;-).

Even so, they don't form a majority. Therefore "Most terrorists are Muslim" is false.

PS. on the other hand, Sharia forbids interest paid on loans of money, so one can argue that they are Marxists.  ;)
Yes the Left/Right dichotomy doesn't really work....They certainly aren't capitalists!

Yeah, because there are many flavors of "left" and "right". It is not only about where the MPs choose to sit in the parliament.

It is not only about the position on economical freedoms or social freedoms. It is a more complex combination, which begins to make more sense if we see it in two dimensions.
 
See the attached matrix.

The matrix can explain why American liberals or progressives (Obama style) would sit on the right side, in most European parliaments.
Trump is shifting America from Liberalism/Progressivism up in the Nationalism box, beyond the classical GoP Conservatism.
Interesting chart like any model it of course simplifies the mess that is reality. Certainly by most European measures Obama would be considered quite Right wing.  The differences between Labour and Tory in the UK for example are presented as huge chasms but in fact the gap really is very small....just a bit more or less tax and state intervention.

JimP

« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2018, 15:00 »
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What makes a gun an assault weapon. What are we supposed to ban?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #106 on: February 19, 2018, 17:11 »
+1
What makes a gun an assault weapon. What are we supposed to ban?


Same thing that make the lie of 18 school shootings a factoid for news people. Then it gets quoted on the Internet and becomes a fact.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/18-school-shootings-this-year-thats-misleading/520550091

Misleading and over-blown claims. I'd like to know what makes any rifle into an assault weapon? Number of bullets, fully auto mode (which is already illegal), plastic stock and black?

« Reply #107 on: February 19, 2018, 21:36 »
+2
Crook and politician are synonyms in the US. Both parties, don't play innocent you liberals here. How's your record with politicians in jail, look to Michigan and IL for the most former governors.

It's certainly true that neither party has a monopoly on corruption and there have been plenty of corrupt Democrats, but when it comes to the presidency there really is no comparison.  Over the past nine presidencies covering 50 years, there were 87 people in the administrations of Republicans Nixon, Reagan and Bush II who received criminal convictions.  Ford and Bush I had 1 each bringing the total to 89.  People working in the four Democratic administrations over the same period had 1 criminal conviction of a Clinton crony.  So for corruption at the highest level over the past 50 years the score is Republicans at 89 convictions versus Democrats with 1.  Really no comparison.  I expect Trump will set a new record once the investigations are done.
  (Full disclosure - the graph came from the liberal source Mother Jones using data from Wikipedia).



Not one word has anything to do with Microstock.

What's Microstock?  Who has time for that?  My job flipping burgers at McDonalds gives me more time for forum posting.

« Reply #108 on: February 19, 2018, 21:50 »
+5
Yada, you have this weird combination of saying things that are logical, rational and I mostly agree with like this:
Those left wing terrorists, blowing up and burning down buildings scare me, right wingers with all their guns and military compounds are also over the edge, but the religious fanatics, any of them, are the scariest people of all in the US. Left, Right, Muslim, Christian or anything else. Second only to political fanatics who can't see outside their party lines.

which mostly makes sense, except I don't really know of many left-wing terrorists who blow up or burn down anything in the US.  I could provide many other examples of things you've said that I agree with.

Followed by bizarre, crazy stuff that makes no sense like this:
For example California is now a terrorist state because of the political leanings, the laws and the unamerican activities like harboring criminals plus the oppressive laws against everything from plastic bags to charcoal grills.

California is a terrorist state because they've banned plastic bags at grocery stores?  I'll take your "terrorist state" of California over almost anyplace else any day!

« Reply #109 on: February 19, 2018, 21:58 »
+4
Speaking of California, I used to have a girlfriend from southern California.  When she was a kid her father  made everyone in the family wear seat belts, because it was a safety issue and the right thing to do.  When the state passed a law requiring everyone to wear seat belts, he stopped wearing his - wasn't going to let the state tell him what to do.  It was the dumbest thing I ever saw.  It proved to me I will never be able to understand human behavior.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2018, 05:54 »
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Guns for all IS the American system

This actually is not true, at least not according to the constitution.  This idea of "second amendment rights" has now been perverted so thoroughly that even Zero Talent states the idea that people can own firearms at home as a fact.

The actual text of the second amendment is, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".  The Founding Fathers were concerned about protecting the state from foreign powers, especially after the British had a policy of capturing the magazines of the colonies in 1774 and 1775.  The second amendment, as you can clearly tell by reading what is written, only authorizes the right to bear arms in the context of a well regulated militia.  We can know this with absolute certainty by the key phrase "A well regulated militia".  Not much interpretation required for that.  Random yahoos having guns at home is not well regulated and not a militia (which can only be authorized by Congress), so absolutely, 100% is NOT authorized by the second amendment. 

You could debate about whether "the security of a free state" would include personal weapons, but we can discount that by the first clause about militias and also by understanding the historical context.  In the 1770s the colonies did not have their own armies.  If there were a need for defense, every able-bodied (male, slave-holding in the south) citizen would be mustered into a militia and issued weapons from a communal store.  Most people did not own firearms because they were 1) very expensive and 2) required loading with cartridges of gunpowder and primed with black powder.  Keeping lots of gunpowder lying around in wooden houses that were lighted and heated with open flames is not a great idea.  Instead, gunpowder and weapons were stored in community magazines that were present in most large cities. To prevent the citizens from rebelling, the British removed gunpowder from magazines in Massachusetts in 1774 and Virginia in 1775.  This was fresh on the minds of the framers of the constitution and is likely why the second amendment was deemed so important.

The US was absolutely NOT set up as a gun state!  The right to bear arms was only in the context of a well organized militia for the security of the state, which we can know with absolute certainty because it was written in clear, plain English.  The modern equivalent of a 1780s militia is the National Guard, and nobody has ever talked about disarming them.  That amendment was written before the age of professional, standing militaries and really should be removed since we no longer use militias for defense.

For over 150 years the Supreme Court interpreted the second amendment as it was written.  It is only during the past 50 years that the NRA, through consistent messaging and buying off of congresspeople, has perverted the public perception of the second amendment so much that even liberals talk about "second amendment rights" as if it means individuals can keep firearms at home.  Yet, this clearly is not what the constitution says, and especially so when you consider the historical context in which it was written.  The second amendment right to bear arms in modern society should only rest with the various state national guard units.  The second amendment only applies to arms in the context of a militia; it is silent about firearms owned by individuals.  This means that individuals owning firearms should be decided and regulated separately by the states.

It is a travesty that one organization has managed to twist the constitution to serve the ends of a single industry.  It is long past time for the power of the NRA to end and the people to read the constitution and interpret it as it was written and intended.

Not sure how anyone can argue with that !!

« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2018, 10:23 »
+1
Yada, you have this weird combination of saying things that are logical, rational and I mostly agree with like this:
Those left wing terrorists, blowing up and burning down buildings scare me, right wingers with all their guns and military compounds are also over the edge, but the religious fanatics, any of them, are the scariest people of all in the US. Left, Right, Muslim, Christian or anything else. Second only to political fanatics who can't see outside their party lines.


which mostly makes sense, except I don't really know of many left-wing terrorists who blow up or burn down anything in the US.  I could provide many other examples of things you've said that I agree with.

Followed by bizarre, crazy stuff that makes no sense like this:
For example California is now a terrorist state because of the political leanings, the laws and the unamerican activities like harboring criminals plus the oppressive laws against everything from plastic bags to charcoal grills.


California is a terrorist state because they've banned plastic bags at grocery stores?  I'll take your "terrorist state" of California over almost anyplace else any day!


Part of the CA thing is humor, maybe I shouldn't bother. They pass resolutions for everything and want to control every aspect of lives, typical over the top liberals who know how to run our live, better than we do, so they make all kinds of laws. It's oppressive. I've always worn seat belts and don't care if they wear out my shirts, which is one argument, or rumple my sport coat. Just like most dumb arguments, the reasons are fabricated illogically and make no sense, but you'll always find a small group of defend them to the end. "I know someone who was thrown from a car and that saved him." and then there are the other 90 people who died because they wore no seat belt and can't talk about how they should have.  :( Probably why we have mandated air bags to protect people who are too stupid to put on a seat belt?

In San Jose and Sunnyvale it is illegal for grocery stores to provide plastic bags. "Smog-causing barbecue equipment--including traditional types of lighter fluid and pre-soaked briquettes--must be removed from store shelves in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties by January, 1992, under the South Coast Air Quality Management District's new rule."

You want leftists who burn down buildings and blow things up? Really? Maybe you are too young, in the 70s the protesters burned down buildings on numerous college campuses, in Wisconsin blew up the math science building, accidentally killed someone. Weathermen 1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Village_townhouse_explosion Oh what the heck, here, read this please, http://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/liberal-violence-five-names-you-should-know/ 

One of the longstanding members of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's list of 10 most wanted persons is Bernardine Rae Dohrn, leader of the Weather Underground, a terrorist group that has said it was responsible for numerous bombings. One of their last was they bombed or took credit for bombing the state department building in Washington DC. SDS, students for a democratic society, turned into the weathermen and morphed into the weather underground. The weather underground wanted, the violent overthrow of the elected US government and the establishment of a communist dictatorship in the US. Read Prairie Fire their manifesto if you don't believe me.

Don't mistake this for one sided, the right wing nut jobs are just as bad. I just wanted to be fair that both sides are wrong when they get extreme and start harming innocent people or destroying property in terrorist acts for their cause.

For some reason people assume the right is the group that blows up and burns. It's all of them. Some of the worst currently are eco terrorists. That's like the religious right killing doctors to protest abortion clinics. I think that peaceful protests, action groups, spreading the policies and group goals  through educations, both sides left or right, invites more people to join than terrorism or hate uprisings.

Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 10:29 by YadaYadaYada »

« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2018, 11:20 »
+1
Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.

Funny to notice that all this would make The Donald a liberal  ;D
Nobody mocks and his opponents more than him. There is no bigger bully, in politics, than our Moron in Chief.
Or maybe this thinking is not only a liberal thing?
Or maybe there are liberals thinking differently i.e. teaching their kids decency?

What say you? Another superficial generalization?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 11:30 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2018, 11:30 »
+1
Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.

Funny to notice that all this would make The Donald a liberal  ;D
Nobody mocks and his opponents more than him. There is no bigger bully, in politics, than our Moron in Chief.
Or maybe this thinking is not only a liberal thing?
What say you?

No one is right when everyone is wrong. Moron's don't get a free pass for being an embarrassing twitter idiot. Neither do people who claim diversity and compassion, for their fake faces while they bully and intimidate anyone who opposes their political agenda. I'm not going to make excuses for any of these people on either side. That's what's wrong with America right now, not all the fake news and diversionary issues. We are divided by hate and anger and most of all party politics, causing that situation. Both sides are unwilling to negotiate or act in any moderate civilized agreement. Polarized into such a divided nation that we have lost the ability to be functional.

That's what I say.

« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2018, 11:38 »
0
Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.

Funny to notice that all this would make The Donald a liberal  ;D
Nobody mocks and his opponents more than him. There is no bigger bully, in politics, than our Moron in Chief.
Or maybe this thinking is not only a liberal thing?
What say you?

No one is right when everyone is wrong. Moron's don't get a free pass for being an embarrassing twitter idiot. Neither do people who claim diversity and compassion, for their fake faces while they bully and intimidate anyone who opposes their political agenda. I'm not going to make excuses for any of these people on either side. That's what's wrong with America right now, not all the fake news and diversionary issues. We are divided by hate and anger and most of all party politics, causing that situation. Both sides are unwilling to negotiate or act in any moderate civilized agreement. Polarized into such a divided nation that we have lost the ability to be functional.

That's what I say.

Fair point, but rather grim.
I would say the same thing in a more optimistic way, the way John Oliver said it in the clip I posted one page back:

"The point is America is not one thing. It is a beautiful mess of contradictions, where good and bad are mixed together"

« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2018, 23:48 »
+1
Here you go again:
I think that peaceful protests, action groups, spreading the policies and group goals  through educations, both sides left or right, invites more people to join than terrorism or hate uprisings.

Well said - logical, reasonable, intelligent, something I think we could all agree with.  Followed by:

Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.

You clearly have no idea what liberal thinking is about - this is much more what the right wingers do than any liberals.  Although nowadays with Russian troll bots deliberately setting both sides against each other it is hard to tell what real Americans believe.  I think if you spent any time with actual liberals you would know better than to say such things.  Do you think liberals are teaching their children such things in the charter schools that Betsy Devos is promoting?  Not likely.

The Weather Underground - seriously?  You can't possibly be comparing the actions of a fringe terrorist group with modern liberals.  Besides, with all the mentions of Trump I thought we were talking about current events, not ancient history.  How many buildings have been bombed or burned down by liberals recently?  How many riots or hate crimes has Obama incited?  How about Trump? 

BTW, the highly regulated, relatively high tax, "terrorist" state of California has the sixth-largest economy in the world.  Pretty much puts a lie to the statement that regulations and taxes kill economic development.

« Reply #116 on: February 21, 2018, 00:18 »
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Neither do people who claim diversity and compassion, for their fake faces while they bully and intimidate anyone who opposes their political agenda. I'm not going to make excuses for any of these people on either side. That's what's wrong with America right now, not all the fake news and diversionary issues. We are divided by hate and anger and most of all party politics, causing that situation. Both sides are unwilling to negotiate or act in any moderate civilized agreement. Polarized into such a divided nation that we have lost the ability to be functional.

That's what I say.

So say we all (for anyone who used to watch Battlestar Gallactica).

Yes, I agree.  This started mostly with Fox "News" and their highly partisan reporting - they were and still are the original fake news.  I think it's also a problem with the two-party system and the primaries used to select candidates.  To get the base activated, and thus the party nomination, candidates from each party have to go to the extremes, forcing the parties to diverge.  Most people I think are in the middle and just want logical, reasonable solutions to the problems at hand, not fights over dogma.  The current Republican party is now so extreme that their sainted Ronald Reagan would be kicked out as a flaming liberal.  We need to get rid of Iowa and New Hampshire having such a large say in who runs for office and instead let New York and California go first, or at least select primary times by lottery so it varies from year to year.

The problem has been exacerbated by gerrymandering (mostly by Republicans although Dems have done it occasionally) which creates "safe" districts where representatives can be as extreme as they want and will still get elected - on both sides.  The current system is that the party in power makes up the districts every ten years after the census.  Last time Republicans were mostly in control and made districts that were so extremely gerrymandered in Republican favor that they fortunately have been ruled unconstitutional in several states.  This leads to representation that does not reflect the makeup or will of the voters.  Now Trump is trying to mess with the census as another way to steal elections in the future.  What we should have is districts that are as even as possible, forcing the parties to compete every election - that way everyone would have to pull votes from the other party to get elected, hopefully forcing everyone into the center rather than the extremes.  To be fair, it should be the losing party that gets to make up the next districts, not the winners - our current system is like giving the Super Bowl champions the first picks in the draft every year.

A big problem now that we really don't understand is that a lot of the division and hatred is being promoted from outside the country, in a coordinated and very successful effort to promote exactly this kind of division.  There is no doubt that the Russians are behind this and that it has been their policy for many years.  What I don't understand is, if twitter bots are well known, why aren't they stopped?  Can't they be identified and shut down?  Can't the fake facebook accounts be identified and deleted?  Trump really needs to get behind this and promote ways to make our country safer rather than being the biggest dupe.  Hopefully the rest of the Republicans will find their long-lost integrity and help Democrats and our security agencies to protect the country from such outside interference in the future.  Then maybe we could get back to civil discourse rather than the rabid attacks that are common nowadays.

« Reply #117 on: February 21, 2018, 10:03 »
0
Here you go again:
I think that peaceful protests, action groups, spreading the policies and group goals  through educations, both sides left or right, invites more people to join than terrorism or hate uprisings.

Well said - logical, reasonable, intelligent, something I think we could all agree with.  Followed by:

Normal Liberal thinking says, You don't like someone?  Stalk him.  Trash everything he does.  Mock, demean, ridicule, and ostracize this person.  For those who still hang with your victim, attack them as well.  Harass, threaten, and blackball them until they too turn on your target. That's what liberals are teaching their children. All the claims of kindness and peace and they are teaching their children to be mean blind following bullies.

You clearly have no idea what liberal thinking is about - this is much more what the right wingers do than any liberals.  Although nowadays with Russian troll bots deliberately setting both sides against each other it is hard to tell what real Americans believe.  I think if you spent any time with actual liberals you would know better than to say such things.  Do you think liberals are teaching their children such things in the charter schools that Betsy Devos is promoting?  Not likely.

The Weather Underground - seriously?  You can't possibly be comparing the actions of a fringe terrorist group with modern liberals.  Besides, with all the mentions of Trump I thought we were talking about current events, not ancient history.  How many buildings have been bombed or burned down by liberals recently?  How many riots or hate crimes has Obama incited?  How about Trump? 

BTW, the highly regulated, relatively high tax, "terrorist" state of California has the sixth-largest economy in the world.  Pretty much puts a lie to the statement that regulations and taxes kill economic development.

Didn't ever say that CA killed anything or their economy. Don't put words or thoughts into what I write please. I said that CA was regulation nuts.

The question was what liberals bombed or burned. I was just pointing out that there are extremist liberals, now we have the eco terrorists. Obama never incited a riot? Neither has Trump. You're really stepping into fringe blame there. Now the Presidents are responsible for riots? Not the people and the politics who organize them!

Guns don't run along party lines, far right and far left all have and use them. We don't need big clips, or bump stocks. If a hunter can't shoot in one shot, maybe two, they are incompetent. Even a  hobby shooter at a range doesn't need more than a 10 round clip. There is no argument for either of those.

The hate politics could have started on TV but I think it started with AM radio talk hosts who did nothing but run down Clinton for years. There was division before that but not the hate and daily bashing. Amusing is the liberals tried to fund a network of their own, Air America one of Al Franken's projects, and it failed. I never could figure that out. My liberal friends listen to Rush and the rest, maybe for things to hate, I find those type shows distasteful and dividing. Calling hate politics entertainment is an insult. Yes I know the left controls most of the TV news and PBS, fair is fair. That's just bending and leaning, not hate. Disagreement and varied viewpoints are just fine, but when it comes to polarization and hate, I'm out.

That's why I say both sides are wrong. United and working together, beyond differences is a positive way to govern. One sided inability to negotiate or bend, is where we are now. That just breeds more division and stops the progress of moderate decisions.

Yes I know what liberals teach schools, most the teachers are spreading the liberal propaganda to our children. Everything is green, we can have celebrations for Kwanzaa or Ramadan but can't have a Christmas pageant. I know many teachers, the ones that aren't liberal are ridiculed and badgered, basically silenced by the system. Ask your teacher friends before you start getting all defensive about that. Look at who's fighting against better education, against higher standards and protecting teachers who shouldn't be in schools. The teachers union. I'll add that teachers are terribly underpaid for the work that they do. Education has become administration heavy, over paid I might add and neglected the source of education, the teachers who are in the classrooms.

But school choice should be a choice not a union driven political agenda. Want to make America great again, improve the schools.

« Reply #118 on: February 21, 2018, 10:36 »
0
Sorry, the CA statement was an aside, I didn't mean to imply you had said that.  Just trying to point out that being heavy on regulations is not a negative.

As to schools, one of my sisters teaches seventh grade in public schools in Maryland.  She has taught at a predominantly minority, inner-city school and now has moved to one with more affluent students.  One of my nieces has done substitute teaching in Virginia and South Carolina.  I suspect I know much more about teachers and teaching than you do.  To say that schools are teaching liberal propaganda is a lie.

We could agree on many things - that gives me hope that compromise could be reached.  One of those is that teachers are underpaid and not always supported by their administrations.  Teachers in many schools have to spend way too much time dealing with disciplinary problems and can't teach those who want to learn.  Some of this is due to well intentioned but poorly implemented liberal policies that give too much power to the students - they know the teachers can't do much about them and so they misbehave.  That needs to change.  Having too much school choice is not the answer - that just takes tax money away from public schools and puts it in the pockets of for-profit and religious schools, many of which have very poor records and/or teach division.  Improving education is easy - increase salaries to attract the best and brightest and give them enough resources to do their jobs.  Getting taxpayers to pay for it is the difficult part.

« Reply #119 on: February 21, 2018, 11:00 »
+1
Sorry, the CA statement was an aside, I didn't mean to imply you had said that.  Just trying to point out that being heavy on regulations is not a negative.

As to schools, one of my sisters teaches seventh grade in public schools in Maryland.  She has taught at a predominantly minority, inner-city school and now has moved to one with more affluent students.  One of my nieces has done substitute teaching in Virginia and South Carolina.  I suspect I know much more about teachers and teaching than you do.  To say that schools are teaching liberal propaganda is a lie.

We could agree on many things - that gives me hope that compromise could be reached.  One of those is that teachers are underpaid and not always supported by their administrations.  Teachers in many schools have to spend way too much time dealing with disciplinary problems and can't teach those who want to learn.  Some of this is due to well intentioned but poorly implemented liberal policies that give too much power to the students - they know the teachers can't do much about them and so they misbehave.  That needs to change.  Having too much school choice is not the answer - that just takes tax money away from public schools and puts it in the pockets of for-profit and religious schools, many of which have very poor records and/or teach division.  Improving education is easy - increase salaries to attract the best and brightest and give them enough resources to do their jobs.  Getting taxpayers to pay for it is the difficult part.

People, I just want to say, can we all get along? Can we get along? Rodney King  :)

We need moderate views, not party line division and opposition. A little tolerance and less extremist polarization. And I'm tired of politicians telling me what I should think because their side has some moral or pseudo intellectual superior agenda. None of them do. They are mostly lawyers, crooks and above all self serving politicians. Mostly not all. I don't know why anyone in this age would want to be President of the United States, take the abusive personal attacks, twisted partizan scrutiny and false accusations. And BTW I liked Obama.

« Reply #120 on: February 21, 2018, 11:47 »
0
Obama never incited a riot? Neither has Trump.

Hmmm ... what about "I'd like to punch him in the face" while remembering the old days when such protesters "were carried out on stretches"?

Does it count as inciting to violence (possibly riot)?

https://nyti.ms/2lc8x3e



Yes I know what liberals teach schools, most the teachers are spreading the liberal propaganda to our children. Everything is green, we can have celebrations for Kwanzaa or Ramadan but can't have a Christmas pageant. I know many teachers, the ones that aren't liberal are ridiculed and badgered, basically silenced by the system. Ask your teacher friends before you start getting all defensive about that. Look at who's fighting against better education, against higher standards and protecting teachers who shouldn't be in schools. The teachers union. I'll add that teachers are terribly underpaid for the work that they do. Education has become administration heavy, over paid I might add and neglected the source of education, the teachers who are in the classrooms.

But school choice should be a choice not a union driven political agenda. Want to make America great again, improve the schools.

I agree that teacher's immunity (tenure) is fundamentally wrong, maybe one of the main reasons for the decaying American school competitiveness.
We need competition between schools and between teachers. We need to change a broken system that restricts the school "choice" for our kids, only to the local school.

Please take note that you have nut jobs suing schools for teaching about Islam, in "World Cultures and Geography" classes, therefore trying to impose their sheer ignorance on others! Do you think they are liberals?
https://www.tapinto.net/towns/chatham/articles/chatham-mom-files-federal-lawsuit-against-chatham

What about other religious nut jobs fighting against teaching evolution in schools? Are they liberals as well?

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 13:12 by Zero Talent »

JimP

« Reply #121 on: March 01, 2018, 17:01 »
0
Sorry, the CA statement was an aside, I didn't mean to imply you had said that.  Just trying to point out that being heavy on regulations is not a negative.

As to schools, one of my sisters teaches seventh grade in public schools in Maryland.  She has taught at a predominantly minority, inner-city school and now has moved to one with more affluent students.  One of my nieces has done substitute teaching in Virginia and South Carolina.  I suspect I know much more about teachers and teaching than you do.  To say that schools are teaching liberal propaganda is a lie.

We could agree on many things - that gives me hope that compromise could be reached.  One of those is that teachers are underpaid and not always supported by their administrations.  Teachers in many schools have to spend way too much time dealing with disciplinary problems and can't teach those who want to learn.  Some of this is due to well intentioned but poorly implemented liberal policies that give too much power to the students - they know the teachers can't do much about them and so they misbehave.  That needs to change.  Having too much school choice is not the answer - that just takes tax money away from public schools and puts it in the pockets of for-profit and religious schools, many of which have very poor records and/or teach division.  Improving education is easy - increase salaries to attract the best and brightest and give them enough resources to do their jobs.  Getting taxpayers to pay for it is the difficult part.

Heavy on regulations won't save them from their own doing.

Go California or is it many have gone. I see where Diane Finestein is now just a white jewish woman with no party support. This is going to be fun watching as Calif. sinks from their glory. Starting sooner then I thought. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/california-ranks-last-in-quality-of-life-in-new-report/ar-BBJKVwm?OCID=ansmsnnews11 California ranks last in quality of life in new report this is all going to be the payback for the state that's gone over the edge politically and is going farther toward the bottom faster. Water crisis could be a terrible tragedy in the making which will be sad, caused by the over population. The state also found itself second-to-last in voter participation, 44th in community engagement and 38th in social support.

Shelma1

« Reply #122 on: March 01, 2018, 18:02 »
+4
Sorry, the CA statement was an aside, I didn't mean to imply you had said that.  Just trying to point out that being heavy on regulations is not a negative.

As to schools, one of my sisters teaches seventh grade in public schools in Maryland.  She has taught at a predominantly minority, inner-city school and now has moved to one with more affluent students.  One of my nieces has done substitute teaching in Virginia and South Carolina.  I suspect I know much more about teachers and teaching than you do.  To say that schools are teaching liberal propaganda is a lie.

We could agree on many things - that gives me hope that compromise could be reached.  One of those is that teachers are underpaid and not always supported by their administrations.  Teachers in many schools have to spend way too much time dealing with disciplinary problems and can't teach those who want to learn.  Some of this is due to well intentioned but poorly implemented liberal policies that give too much power to the students - they know the teachers can't do much about them and so they misbehave.  That needs to change.  Having too much school choice is not the answer - that just takes tax money away from public schools and puts it in the pockets of for-profit and religious schools, many of which have very poor records and/or teach division.  Improving education is easy - increase salaries to attract the best and brightest and give them enough resources to do their jobs.  Getting taxpayers to pay for it is the difficult part.

Heavy on regulations won't save them from their own doing.

Go California or is it many have gone. I see where Diane Finestein is now just a white jewish woman with no party support. This is going to be fun watching as Calif. sinks from their glory. Starting sooner then I thought. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/california-ranks-last-in-quality-of-life-in-new-report/ar-BBJKVwm?OCID=ansmsnnews11 California ranks last in quality of life in new report this is all going to be the payback for the state that's gone over the edge politically and is going farther toward the bottom faster. Water crisis could be a terrible tragedy in the making which will be sad, caused by the over population. The state also found itself second-to-last in voter participation, 44th in community engagement and 38th in social support.

Has it not occurred to you that some of the people here must be Jewish? Antisemitism is not attractive.

namussi

« Reply #123 on: March 01, 2018, 19:03 »
+1
Sorry, the CA statement was an aside, I didn't mean to imply you had said that.  Just trying to point out that being heavy on regulations is not a negative.

As to schools, one of my sisters teaches seventh grade in public schools in Maryland.  She has taught at a predominantly minority, inner-city school and now has moved to one with more affluent students.  One of my nieces has done substitute teaching in Virginia and South Carolina.  I suspect I know much more about teachers and teaching than you do.  To say that schools are teaching liberal propaganda is a lie.

We could agree on many things - that gives me hope that compromise could be reached.  One of those is that teachers are underpaid and not always supported by their administrations.  Teachers in many schools have to spend way too much time dealing with disciplinary problems and can't teach those who want to learn.  Some of this is due to well intentioned but poorly implemented liberal policies that give too much power to the students - they know the teachers can't do much about them and so they misbehave.  That needs to change.  Having too much school choice is not the answer - that just takes tax money away from public schools and puts it in the pockets of for-profit and religious schools, many of which have very poor records and/or teach division.  Improving education is easy - increase salaries to attract the best and brightest and give them enough resources to do their jobs.  Getting taxpayers to pay for it is the difficult part.

Heavy on regulations won't save them from their own doing.

Go California or is it many have gone. I see where Diane Finestein is now just a white jewish woman with no party support. This is going to be fun watching as Calif. sinks from their glory. Starting sooner then I thought. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/california-ranks-last-in-quality-of-life-in-new-report/ar-BBJKVwm?OCID=ansmsnnews11 California ranks last in quality of life in new report this is all going to be the payback for the state that's gone over the edge politically and is going farther toward the bottom faster. Water crisis could be a terrible tragedy in the making which will be sad, caused by the over population. The state also found itself second-to-last in voter participation, 44th in community engagement and 38th in social support.

Has it not occurred to you that some of the people here must be Jewish? Antisemitism is not attractive.

Shelma: we may disagree on caps, but I'm 100% in agreement with you on this.

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« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2018, 22:01 »
+4
Although, unless I missed something... if saying "a white jewish woman" is antisemitic, then surely it's also sexist and racist?


 

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