MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: GO Greece!  (Read 48423 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2015, 05:35 »
+4

And Paul, speaking for myself, I  don't think my comments are comical.

I never suggested your comments were comical. I said that Juncker's description of the euro as being an engine of solidarity and prosperity was comical. Or, at least, it would be if it didn't show a complete lack of comprehension of what is going on in Southern Europe (and even France) by those in charge.

I am shocked by the rest of your comment. I must have spent close to two years in Greece, a month or two at a time, over the last 20 years and I can only recall one occasion when someone scammed me, that was back in '96.  How you could have such a bad experience in 24 hours I really don't know, or perhaps it's because it was Athens and I spend very little of my time there.


Semmick Photo

« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2015, 05:36 »
0
Corrupt bunch and they need to get sorted out.

exactly, but as an experienced traveler i would also say that if you got ripped off so bad you must be ashamed too because you forgot to do your homeworks and to collect information about the scams and ripoffs going on in the place you were visiting.

if you think you had it so bad don't even try places like Mumbai or Saigon or Caracas ...
it was my first long haul flight. I may have been naive. Lessons learned  Still they are crooks for trying

Titus Livius

« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2015, 05:38 »
0
Greece cooked the books. They we're in a hole and needed EU money to survive. Of course debts were created. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature

greece was a NATO member since 1952, they had no other alternatives and of course it will be bailed out again and again because otherwise it will end up into an alliance with Russia and Putin has been very clear last week about helping greece with open arms in exchange for long term oil/gas contracts.

no matter how bad greece will play its cards, they will never be left alone and somebody will take care.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2015, 05:38 »
+1

And Paul, speaking for myself, I  don't think my comments are comical.

I never suggested your comments were comical. I said that Juncker's description of the euro as being an engine of solidarity and prosperity was comical. Or, at least, it would be if it didn't show a complete lack of comprehension of what is going on in Southern Europe (and even France) by those in charge.

I am shocked by the rest of your comment. I must have spent close to two years in Greece, a month or two at a time, over the last 20 years and I can only recall one occasion when someone scammed me, that was back in '96.  How you could have such a bad experience in 24 hours I really don't know, or perhaps it's because it was Athens and I spend very little of my time there.
i gave been told Athens is a different animal compared to the rest of the country. Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experience

« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2015, 05:45 »
+5
Have some empathy guys because, like the Greeks, most of us have zero control of events that can land us in the *, and it could happen to any of us.

+100
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 05:55 by KnowYourOnions »

Semmick Photo

« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2015, 05:47 »
+2
Have some empathy guys because, like the Greeks, most of us have zero control of events that can land us in the *, and it could happen to any of us.

+100
read Cobalt's comments again. Its a culture of greed and corruption. Do you sympathise with that?

Titus Livius

« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2015, 05:48 »
+1
it was my first long haul flight. I may have been naive. Lessons learned  Still they are crooks for trying

there's no problem in being young and naive,  what matters is to learn the lesson.
they can only scam us as long as we're young and naive but it doesnt last forever.

unfortunately as a tourist it's too easy to end up thinking you can trust no one but in some places that's 100% true, no matter if the locals who dont work in the tourism industry will welcome you in their homes and be super polite and happy to deal with foreigners, it's always a mixed feeling in the end and you get tired of being asked crazy prices by taxi drivers or shopkeepers and having to bargain till the last cents 100 times a day.

« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2015, 05:50 »
+3
. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature

It is, indeed, called a bail-out, but is that what it actually has been? If you take a mortgage on your house are you taking a bail-out, because that seems to be the equivalent to what has happened (up to now, it's about to change).  The bail-out has involved lending money at interest from which, iirc, the ECB has so far made a profit of about four billion euros. In my lexicon a bail-out happens if someone gives you money for nothing to get you out of a hole, banks making loans at interest is not a bailout.

When you say "we never should have" you don't understand what the alternative was.  The European banks loaned money to Greece because they could get a good rate of return on it (risk level was higher than for some other places). When the risk turned out to be all too real, the banks asked the taxpayers to buy the loans from them for more than they were worth, and the voters of Europe - via their democratic leaders - agreed to do this. Why? Well, because the entire European banking system would have collapsed if they didn't. So when the Troika protest about being "blackmailed" by Greece, remember that they didn't make murmur of protest when Deutsche Bank and its colleagues were the blackmailers.

As I said, you haven't made any personal contribution to Greece yet, but that is about to change when it drops out of the euro.

« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2015, 05:52 »
+3
Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experience

That's a shame, you're missing some marvellous experiences - and it will be a really cheap place to go next year.

« Reply #109 on: June 28, 2015, 05:54 »
0
44m ago
11:08
Austria: Greece would have to ASK to leave
 
Austrias finance minister, Hans Jrg Schelling, has flagged up that Greece would have to ask to leave the eurozone, and get the permission of the rest of Europe:

Greece would have to file a request to do so. The other EU countries would have to approve the request. Only then could Greece leave the eurozone.

There simply isnt a clear way for a country to simply exit the single currency.

Martin Schulz, president of the European Parliament, told my colleague Ian Traynor recently that any country leaving the euro must also leave the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/28/greek-crisis-ecb-emergency-liquidity-referendum-bailout-live

« Reply #110 on: June 28, 2015, 05:57 »
+3
Greece cooked the books. They we're in a hole and needed EU money to survive. Of course debts were created. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature


This is like saying every muslim is a bloodthirsty terrorist - not true and a ridiculous statement.


Both of us live in a country that had the very same type of corrupt greedy leadership and the same corrupt and greedy bankers - I personally lost my job as a result of the crash.  The difference is that Ireland is the European base for most of the biggest multi-nationals (and I am fortunate to have certain skills and experience that these guys want).  Only for that, Ireland would be in the same position, I'd be unemployed and you'd be on the boat back to the Netherlands.


My own government's sycophantic attitude with the germans and behaviour towards greece is actually pretty sickening.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2015, 05:57 »
+1
Paul. I  live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity  measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust

Semmick Photo

« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2015, 06:00 »
+2
Mike i am very black and white. But I  understand there's innocent people in Greece. It doesn't change my opinion about the Greeks government  and tax evaders

Semmick Photo

« Reply #113 on: June 28, 2015, 06:03 »
+1
Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experience

That's a shame, you're missing some marvellous experiences - and it will be a really cheap place to go next year.
I will go in the near future as I do hope  to change my opinion about the people

« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2015, 06:07 »
+2
...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...


if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.

I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.

It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.

EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.
I don't like referendums because people vote for what would be best for them now, not for the long term.  So they often take the option that leads to problems in the future.  There's the same problem with elections, all politicians ignore long term plans because they know they only need to get voted in now, so they promise things that will cause big problems in future years.

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2015, 06:08 »
+2
The bail-out has involved lending money at interest from which, iirc, the ECB has so far made a profit of about four billion euros. In my lexicon a bail-out happens if someone gives you money for nothing to get you out of a hole, banks making loans at interest is not a bailout.

The most tragic of all is that the ECB could not send money to the countries in need directly with low interests.

Instead, they were lending money to the banks at <1% interests, and the banks in turn were buying public debt with 6, 7% and more!

Why wasn't the ECB lending money to the countries directly with the <1% of interests? Because this isn't about helping the countries in trouble, but to banks suck all the wealth they can taking advantage of the situation.

EU and the ECB do not serve the people, but the banks instead.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 06:32 by StockPhotosArt »

« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2015, 06:08 »
+2
Paul. I  live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity  measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust


You didn't really experience austerity even if it was going on around you, other than paying the USC.  If you were in the building trade as a simple navvie or even an engineer or architect and had a mortgage, taken out in good faith, and a few kids you would have had the full on experience and would be gone outta here.  The high moral ground is often fine until one actually experience a given situation and then, suddenly, one becomes slightly more flexible.

« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2015, 06:13 »
+2
44m ago
11:08
Austria: Greece would have to ASK to leave
 
Austrias finance minister, Hans Jrg Schelling, has flagged up that Greece would have to ask to leave the eurozone, and get the permission of the rest of Europe:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/28/greek-crisis-ecb-emergency-liquidity-referendum-bailout-live


The guardian's issued a correction - he was talking about leaving the EU, not the EZ. (And the Greeks don't want to leave either, but they're probably not going to have any choice about leaving the currency).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 06:15 by BaldricksTrousers »

« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2015, 06:24 »
+1
...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...


if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.

I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.

It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.

EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.
I don't like referendums because people vote for what would be best for them now, not for the long term.  So they often take the option that leads to problems in the future.  There's the same problem with elections, all politicians ignore long term plans because they know they only need to get voted in now, so they promise things that will cause big problems in future years.

Have to agree with you on that one. In modern societies, people are trained very effectively to be dumb and not think for themselves. In an enlightened society it would work better. But I still trust the people more than the government, better to have the choice of digging your own grave than just being thrown off the cliff.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 06:39 by Nikovsk »

« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2015, 06:33 »
+2
The countries are not being punished.  They are being bailed out at a cost.

And Paul, speaking for myself, I  don't think my comments are comical. Just my opinion on the situation. Greeks are fully responsible for the sh.it they're in. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Maybe fuelled by the fact that during  a 24 hr stop over in Athens every single person i had to pay for a service or product scammed me. I was driven around Athens in a taxi going in circles to raise the fare. A barman charing me 18 guilders for  a can of beer. Another taxi driver raising his fare at 22:50 when it should be at 23:00. The woman at the airport making us pay 100 guilders for a visa i didn't need. Corrupt bunch and they need to get sorted out.

I think you got off at the wrong airport if they were all charging you in guilders

« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2015, 06:37 »
+2
I actually think if they have the drachme back it would really help them. Many greeks already live abroad and send money home. This is normal for many countries. When things improve at home, they go back with money and business experience. Just look at Poland.

The islands are lovely and if you live in a small hotel or pension the owners will make you feel part of the family and advise you which restaurant to go to or warn you about shops and places that will rip you off.

They can also organise cars and drivers for you.

However if you live in Greece you will have to deal with the amazing buraucracy etc...and you will see the countries problems in a different way. You are no longer a tourist.

But anyone who wants to support Greece, do your holidays there, buy clothes, souvenirs,wine. Or any products you can find in your shops at home.

Just take enough cash, because it looks like the banks will be opening and closing in an unpredictable way. And keep on an eye on the news for strikes. As soon as the banks close repeatedly, the strikes will follow.

I wouldnt be surprised if after a few scary weeks, suddenly the government jumps into action, cuts down on military spending, pushes for an agreement with switzerland for the anonymous tax money...comes up with really creative ideas they can do to improve the economy...etc...they can work really fast if they want to.

I dont believe Greece will fall into anarchy or civil war. There is always a lot of very public drama, but in the end they usually make it work. They are also used to a certain amount of chaos, that I would find unbearable, but they just shrug it off as normal daily life.

The "show" we have seen on TV in the last few months with Tsirpas, the going backward and forward, the insults, the walking out of meetings, contradictions, saying one thing to one partner, then flirting with another (russia) for public effect... is completely politics as usual for greeks. They think this is the "clever" way to work and run business or politics. You keep reading it in many Greek comments that they love the way Tsirpas is giving Europe a "show down". They believe his totally rude and unsuccessful behaviour is some kind of strength. They dont care he doesnt get results. But the emotions run high and their egos rise.

It just got translated to the European stage and we all had the opportunity to experience it.

Or did you think they run their other, daily politics in a different way? ;)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 06:50 by cobalt »

Titus Livius

« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2015, 06:43 »
+2
In modern societies, people are trained very effectively to be dumb and not think for themselves. In an enlightened society it would work better. But I still trust the people more than the government, better to have the choice of digging your own grave than just being thrown off the cliff.

it's ludicrous that now greeks are considered guilty as a whole.
all they did in the last 40 yrs was supporting a social democratic government, exactly as everyone else did in the rest of europe, how is it their fault if their political leaders turned out to be a bunch of crooks ?

there's nothing they can do, actually they will throw you in jail if you become a nuisance as they did with many members of the greek right wing.

what exactly a law abiding is supposed to do ? finding a rifle (where ? how ?) and start shooting a few politicians eating in a restaurant ? or throwing a couple bombs in the bank next door ?

in practical terms, being a citizen just means you live inside a plantation and you've to follow all the rules or be punished, the only way out is to leave greece.


« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2015, 06:49 »
+2
finding a rifle (where ? how ?) and start shooting a few politicians

Errr ... try looking up a few chimneys in Cretan mountain villages?

« Reply #123 on: June 28, 2015, 07:04 »
+1
Right now...on BBC Radio4 Yanis Varoufakis
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/on-air

AND recording if you missed  - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0606vv1
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 08:24 by KnowYourOnions »

Semmick Photo

« Reply #124 on: June 28, 2015, 07:31 »
0
Paul. I  live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity  measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust


You didn't really experience austerity even if it was going on around you, other than paying the USC.  If you were in the building trade as a simple navvie or even an engineer or architect and had a mortgage, taken out in good faith, and a few kids you would have had the full on experience and would be gone outta here.  The high moral ground is often fine until one actually experience a given situation and then, suddenly, one becomes slightly more flexible.
Dont tell me what I did and did not experience. And do you think moving back home is easy or a solution or that I would bail when things get tough? How many time have you emigrated?


 

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results