And Paul, speaking for myself, I  don't think my comments are comical.

I never suggested your comments were comical. I said that Juncker's description of the euro as being an engine of solidarity and prosperity was comical. Or, at least, it would be if it didn't show a complete lack of comprehension of what is going on in Southern Europe (and even France) by those in charge.

I am shocked by the rest of your comment. I must have spent close to two years in Greece, a month or two at a time, over the last 20 years and I can only recall one occasion when someone scammed me, that was back in '96.  How you could have such a bad experience in 24 hours I really don't know, or perhaps it's because it was Athens and I spend very little of my time there.

Greece cooked the books. They we're in a hole and needed EU money to survive. Of course debts were created. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature

greece was a NATO member since 1952, they had no other alternatives and of course it will be bailed out again and again because otherwise it will end up into an alliance with Russia and Putin has been very clear last week about helping greece with open arms in exchange for long term oil/gas contracts.

no matter how bad greece will play its cards, they will never be left alone and somebody will take care.

Have some empathy guys because, like the Greeks, most of us have zero control of events that can land us in the *, and it could happen to any of us.

+100

it was my first long haul flight. I may have been naive. Lessons learned  Still they are crooks for trying

there's no problem in being young and naive,  what matters is to learn the lesson.
they can only scam us as long as we're young and naive but it doesnt last forever.

unfortunately as a tourist it's too easy to end up thinking you can trust no one but in some places that's 100% true, no matter if the locals who dont work in the tourism industry will welcome you in their homes and be super polite and happy to deal with foreigners, it's always a mixed feeling in the end and you get tired of being asked crazy prices by taxi drivers or shopkeepers and having to bargain till the last cents 100 times a day.

Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experience

That's a shame, you're missing some marvellous experiences - and it will be a really cheap place to go next year.

Greece cooked the books. They we're in a hole and needed EU money to survive. Of course debts were created. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature

This is like saying every muslim is a bloodthirsty terrorist - not true and a ridiculous statement.


Both of us live in a country that had the very same type of corrupt greedy leadership and the same corrupt and greedy bankers - I personally lost my job as a result of the crash.  The difference is that Ireland is the European base for most of the biggest multi-nationals (and I am fortunate to have certain skills and experience that these guys want).  Only for that, Ireland would be in the same position, I'd be unemployed and you'd be on the boat back to the Netherlands.


My own government's sycophantic attitude with the germans and behaviour towards greece is actually pretty sickening.

Mike i am very black and white. But I  understand there's innocent people in Greece. It doesn't change my opinion about the Greeks government  and tax evaders

Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 10:16

Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 09:15

...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...

if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.

I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.

It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.

EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.

I don't like referendums because people vote for what would be best for them now, not for the long term.  So they often take the option that leads to problems in the future.  There's the same problem with elections, all politicians ignore long term plans because they know they only need to get voted in now, so they promise things that will cause big problems in future years.

Paul. I  live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity  measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust

You didn't really experience austerity even if it was going on around you, other than paying the USC.  If you were in the building trade as a simple navvie or even an engineer or architect and had a mortgage, taken out in good faith, and a few kids you would have had the full on experience and would be gone outta here.  The high moral ground is often fine until one actually experience a given situation and then, suddenly, one becomes slightly more flexible.

Quote from: Nikovsk on June 27, 2015, 11:42

Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 10:16

Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 09:15

...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...

if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.

I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.

It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.

EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.

I don't like referendums because people vote for what would be best for them now, not for the long term.  So they often take the option that leads to problems in the future.  There's the same problem with elections, all politicians ignore long term plans because they know they only need to get voted in now, so they promise things that will cause big problems in future years.

Have to agree with you on that one. In modern societies, people are trained very effectively to be dumb and not think for themselves. In an enlightened society it would work better. But I still trust the people more than the government, better to have the choice of digging your own grave than just being thrown off the cliff.

I actually think if they have the drachme back it would really help them. Many greeks already live abroad and send money home. This is normal for many countries. When things improve at home, they go back with money and business experience. Just look at Poland.

The islands are lovely and if you live in a small hotel or pension the owners will make you feel part of the family and advise you which restaurant to go to or warn you about shops and places that will rip you off.

They can also organise cars and drivers for you.

However if you live in Greece you will have to deal with the amazing buraucracy etc...and you will see the countries problems in a different way. You are no longer a tourist.

But anyone who wants to support Greece, do your holidays there, buy clothes, souvenirs,wine. Or any products you can find in your shops at home.

Just take enough cash, because it looks like the banks will be opening and closing in an unpredictable way. And keep on an eye on the news for strikes. As soon as the banks close repeatedly, the strikes will follow.

I wouldn�t be surprised if after a few scary weeks, suddenly the government jumps into action, cuts down on military spending, pushes for an agreement with switzerland for the anonymous tax money...comes up with really creative ideas they can do to improve the economy...etc...they can work really fast if they want to.

I don�t believe Greece will fall into anarchy or civil war. There is always a lot of very public drama, but in the end they usually make it work. They are also used to a certain amount of chaos, that I would find unbearable, but they just shrug it off as normal daily life.

The "show" we have seen on TV in the last few months with Tsirpas, the going backward and forward, the insults, the walking out of meetings, contradictions, saying one thing to one partner, then flirting with another (russia) for public effect... is completely politics as usual for greeks. They think this is the "clever" way to work and run business or politics. You keep reading it in many Greek comments that they love the way Tsirpas is giving Europe a "show down". They believe his totally rude and unsuccessful behaviour is some kind of strength. They don�t care he doesn�t get results. But the emotions run high and their egos rise.

It just got translated to the European stage and we all had the opportunity to experience it.

Or did you think they run their other, daily politics in a different way?

finding a rifle (where ? how ?) and start shooting a few politicians

Errr ... try looking up a few chimneys in Cretan mountain villages?

Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 05:57

Paul. I  live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity  measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust

You didn't really experience austerity even if it was going on around you, other than paying the USC.  If you were in the building trade as a simple navvie or even an engineer or architect and had a mortgage, taken out in good faith, and a few kids you would have had the full on experience and would be gone outta here.  The high moral ground is often fine until one actually experience a given situation and then, suddenly, one becomes slightly more flexible.

Dont tell me what I did and did not experience. And do you think moving back home is easy or a solution or that I would bail when things get tough? How many time have you emigrated?