Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 12:36

Stockphotosart, your conclusion doesn't make sense at all, just a fallacy. And the situation in Greece is not even the same as in Ireland. Ireland didnt cook the books and people here pay their taxes. I am angry at the banks and the housing sector for putting us in this hole. But the government did a great job getting Ireland out of the hole. I dont see that happening in Greece. The situations are completely different.

And it was not me who called anyone lazy.

If you want to argue with personal attacks, then the conversation for me is over.

The Irish government did a great job kissing German banker ass at the expense of its weakest citizens - not my definition of a great job.  Sometimes moral considerations supersede legal responsibilities.  If your children are hungry you feed them before paying the banks (speaking metaphorically).

Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 15:28

I am not here to write an essay.

Here is the essay you didn't write, probably written by a desperate Greek:

"Dear Fellow Europeans,
Austrians, Belgians, Bulgarians, Croats, Cypriots, Czechs, Danes, Estonians, Fins, French, Germans, Hungarians, Irish, Italians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Luxembourgians Maltese, Dutch, Pols, Portuguese, Romanians, Slovaks, Slovenians, Spaniards, Swedes and British,
Please allow me to explain to you what has been happening to my country in the last few months and how a group of left wing fanatic ideologues, extremists and opportunists, allied with racists, anti-Semites and neo-* have been leading my nation towards an economic and political Armageddon.
On January 25, after 5 years of economic recession, two bailout packages by the European Union (EU), the European Central Bank (ECB) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), an unprecedented unemployment rate that today exceeds 27% and a significant loss of the average household income, the Greek people (unwisely) decided to vote into power the Radical Left party of SYRIZA. SYRIZA is comprised of Marxist, Stalinist, Trotskyist and Maoist Communists, Anarchists, lots of opportunists without a clear ideology and Socialists, leftovers from the, once powerful, Socialist party of Greece. Before the elections, SYRIZA exceeded in populism any political campaign in living memory. They literally promised everything to everyone. They took advantage of people�s despair and anger against the traditional, mainstream political parties that are, to a large extend, responsible for the Greek economic crisis. However, in every chance, they confirmed that they would not risk the country�s membership in the Eurozone and the EU. The party�s leader and current Prime Minister, Mr Tsipras, in his teens and early twenties, was a member of the Orthodox-Stalinist Communist party of Greece and has not work a single day of his life.
His coalition government partner is a right wing, extreme populist, anti-Semitic, racist, homophobic, psychopathic party, the Independent Greeks, led by an insane fellow who believes in Chemtrails and other conspiracy theories (I kid you not!). He also believes that Greece can seek financial support from countries, such as Russia, China and Iran.
Before 2010, these parties would barely enter parliament reaching the 3% threshold of the popular vote. Exactly like in Germany in the interwar perion and for the same reason (an economic depression), extreme parties have flourished and populism has triumphed in Greece. SYRIZA became the first party with 36% of the popular vote and the Independent Greeks gained another 5%, giving them a parliamentary majority.
What followed was 5 months of so-called negotiations, during which the Minister of Finance, Mr Yanis Varoufakis, a Professor of Economics, specialized in Game Theory and an endless appetite for personal publicity, changed his position on a weekly basis and proposed to the Eurogroup (the Eurozone Finance Ministers� assembly) unachievable economic targets for an economy that was back into recession after a trimester of economic growth in late 2014. In the meantime, in Greece, the coalition government increased public spending by hiring thousands people into the public sector. This completely derailed the economy and resulted in a deficit of more than 5 billion euros. Additionally, there was a widespread media campaign to present the EU, the ECB and the IMF as bloodthirsty monsters that hate the Greek people and wish to starve and humiliate us. A lot of people in Greece actually BELIEVE that this is the true intention of our EU partners!
Political parties, politicians, journalists or even regular citizens, like myself, who defend a United Europe and wish us a part of the Eurozone are characterized as �traitors� and �enemies of the people�.
On Friday, June 26, Mr Tsipras, after failing to reach a compromise with the EU and the IMF, called a snap referendum for Sunday, July 5, in which he is asking the people to vote YES or NO to the following question: �Do you approve the technical proposal of the Creditors of Greece (The EU, ECB and IMF) for the extension of the bailout programme?� This proposal, submitted to the Greek government a few days ago, includes reduction of public spending, increase of the VAT and liberal economic reforms. Keep in mind that increased taxation was proposed to our Creditors by the Greek government itself. The question of the referendum is dishonest and deceiving. The average citizen, misinformed and confused from five months of conflicting information and the anti-European rhetoric of the coalition government, largely unaware of the dire situation of the economy and the consequences of his vote, angry by increased taxes and pension cuts, will naturally vote NO. The actual question that needs to be answered is whether the people want the country in the Euro with reforms or a National Currency without reforms. Of course the coalition government will not put the real question to the vote, they would never take responsibility, they will always blame �the others�.
What the Greek government does with this referendum is nothing less than a political extortion towards the entire EU. On Saturday, June 27, this extortion was put on a vote in the Greek parliament and won a majority support by the MPs of the Radical Left party, its right-wing populist partner and the far-right racist Neo-Nazi party, Golden Dawn (the shame of my country, or at least one of the recent shames). This broad anti-European coalition is officially leading my country into the abyss of extremism, populism, international isolation and bankruptcy. This should not come as a total surprise. Mr Tsipras and many SYRIZA party-members have declared, more than once, that Venezuela should serve as �a model of Democracy for Greece�. SYRIZA recognizes its ideological counterparts in Latin-American Socialist semi-dictatorships.
Mr Tsipras and his party, together with their lunatic partners, deceived the Greek people with false promises and stole the popular vote. They then bombarded the public with a coordinated anti-European campaign of lies. Now, they are playing their last card to take Greece out of the Eurozone and the European Union. This is their target. This was their target from the beginning. They are not Democrats, they are Fascists. They were always Fascists. And they want to bring down Democracy in its birthplace.
Please share this message and inform your friends about what is really happening in Greece and what is at stake.
Constantinos Kyriakis"

Quote from: fritz on June 28, 2015, 17:48

Nice political speech! Are you fan of Νέα Δημοκρατία or Πανελλήνιο Σοσιαλιστικό Κίνημα?

I have no connection with Greece, let alone with PASOK (as per google translate).
Are you a Syriza member?

Now, they are playing their last card to take Greece out of the Eurozone and the European Union. This is their target. This was their target from the beginning. They are not Democrats, they are Fascists. They were always Fascists. And they want to bring down Democracy in its birthplace.

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on June 29, 2015, 00:24

At least we can all weep for the poor hedge fund managers who have lost their shirts when they thought they were going to make a killing: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/panic-among-hedge-fund-investors-in-greece.html?_r=0

Precisely...
I hope the lads do have that plan B ready. 

Worth watching - filmed in 2012 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=203&v=Z1LCBp0twLE

Obviously, Putin's troll army is pushing his divide and conquer, salami tactics agenda on all fronts.
Greece is, probably, another victory for him after the destruction of Ukraine. Rejoice Titus! (or Titov?)

No, the shoehorning of Greece into the euro, which is an economic mis-match is the root cause of the mess. It distorted interest rates and drove debt south into Greece and other Med countries and cash north into Germany, France and presumably the UK, too.  The money the North lent to the south was then recycled North again in the purchase of luxury goods, making repayment of the loans almost impossible. The South thought the good times were a permanent feature of euro-membership, not an artificial effect of misaligned economies, while the North thought it was doing well because of a superior work ethic and higher moral values, not because of an artificial effect of the euro in cycling debt south and money north. When the crash happened the South still believed the euro was the harbinger of eternal prosperity and the North couldn't see any reason why it should pay to subsidise lazy feckless Southerners who would have been rich if only they had the same superior morality as the North.