Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on June 29, 2015, 05:09

Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 29, 2015, 03:17

Greece presented the EU with incorrect figures and lied about their financial state. If there was any shoehorning done, it was because Greece painted a rosy picture. I dont see why the EU has to be blamed for the mess in Greece.

Its like jailing a person for leaving their home unlocked instead of jailing the burglar for entering it.

Yes, and the EU knew the figures were fiddled and didn't care because the political aim of achieving ever wider union, with the euro as the currency. So it's more like inviting a known burglar into your house and showing him the combination of the safe before you go out for the evening.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-kingdom/eu-knew-greece-cooked-its-books-when-it-joined-eurozone-243927.html

Well you are right. So the EU is very much to blame here. This does change my perspective about the EU and it's role in this disaster.

Balance of Trade between Portugal and the Countries of the European Union:

1985: +(plus) 10 million euros

1991: -(MINUS) 6 BILLION euros

2010: -(MINUS) 16 BILLION euros

Between these dates the EU:

- restricted the portuguese agriculture with severe quotas and subsidies to those stopping the production (with the restrictive quotas many hardly had alternatives to accept the subsidies)

- restricted the portuguese fishing industry with severe quotas and subsidies to those who dismantled the boats (the quotas and the opening of the portuguese sea to powerful foreign fishing fleets that depleted the quotas quickly made living from fishing impossible to many)

- the dismantling of the industry with the consecutive opening of the borders to products from China, India, etc., dropping the custom taxes and making an industry that had to meet the European work conditions standard impossible to sustain.

- the introduction of the Euro currency that made impossible for portuguese economy to compete since the country no longer had the flexibility of the national currency

- the imposed savage privatization of the strategic sectors which gave a boost to the funds of the state and making possible to mascarade the real situation of the portuguese economy and debt, but led to huge medium and long term loss of revenue to the state. Profitable companies no longer sent their profits to the state but to privates.

- the state (central and local) started to hire a large number of people to cope with the unemployment

- with the planed destruction of the productive sectors of the economy, the state had to fund itself, and the European Bankers started to lend money to Portugal which obviously had to be repaid with interests.

- This way,  the puppet masters of this fake union won in three ways. They killed the potential competition that another state could bring to their products, they found a new market to sell their products including the ones we didn't need to import a few years ago, and started to profit from the loans on the public debt.

The EU knew all this since it was in the back giving orders to the corrupt portuguese politicians.

And if they knew about the Greeks cooking the books, they had no doubts about the real situation of the portuguese economy and the unsustainability to keep a low debt in a country that stopped producing!

They knew this was going to happen sooner or latter, and when Portugal defaults (real chances) they will lose some money which will be nevertheless compensated by the profits made along decades

1985: +(plus) 10 million euros

1991: -(MINUS) 6 BILLION euros

2010: -(MINUS) 16 BILLION euros

Quote from: Titus Livius on June 28, 2015, 18:08

while we're busy talking about greece nobody is looking Ukraine which is the real dead man walking and can't even pay the salaries without begging to their euro/american puppetmasters.

Obviously, Putin's troll army is pushing his divide and conquer, salami tactics agenda on all fronts.
Greece is, probably, another victory for him after the destruction of Ukraine. Rejoice Titus! (or Titov?)

And there it was, stathakis just said on cnn live if people vote yes although they are asking them to vote no, the current government will not negotiate for yes. There will be a new government he said.

So they have just been playing with everyone, if the will of the people does not fit their agenda they will hand over their mess to someone else and refuse all responsibility.

Quote from: ferdinand on June 29, 2015, 12:27

... what is happening in Portugal politic  - is there some party like Syriza or Podemos in Spain...?

Oh... Portugal is much under control of the two right wing Mafias (pseudo-Social-Democrats and pseudo-Socialists) and their extreme-right clutch (Popular Party).

We'll have elections around September/October and at this moment it seems that everything will for sure continue to be the same because the portuguese are basically ceasing to vote instead choosing other options. So, the ones that put Portugal in this situation will be the ones in charge to get us out... LOL

Plus, the hundreds of thousands emigrating, who would be the ones with most reasons to protest in the urns, won't vote also because it's not possible to them.

There's a new party, with a high-profile leader (ex-president of the Lawyer Order), but the campaign and defamation has already started. The main parties seemed to be able to introduce trojan horses inside the new party, and now are starting to leave with the most atrocious accusations creating fear about him. This party and candidate would be placed in the center.

Other people are afraid to go into politics since the state is undermined by the PS / PSD / PP moles.

As for the other parties in the parliament, they don't stand a chance.

The Portuguese Comunist Party has a lot of votes in the municipal elections (and the only one not plagued by corruption cases) but people don't vote them for the government. Some people in Portugal still fear them to be cannibals of babies, and that they would mass murder old people with poisonous injections behind the ear (I KID YOU NOT AT ALL) after the campaigns made by the church and right wing parties after the revolution. Those that do not believe in that stayed with a bad feeling.

And the Left Bloc has been suffering from internal conflicts and it's in a downward spiral for years now with some of their leaders leaving and creating new parties in the Line of the Podemos.

In last case there will be a central bloc with all the parties responsible for the disaster of the last 40 years just to keep power.