Author Topic: GO Greece! (Read 101220 times)

gcrook · « **Reply #250 on:** July 03, 2015, 12:59 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on July 03, 2015, 10:49

Isn't a government representing their people? The people of Greece voted these people into office. Their minister of finance is playing tricks and telling lies just like all the others before him. They've got 230 billion dollar and need 50 billion more. Its time they leave the euro so they can sort out their issues. No need to drag the rest of Europe with them.

This actualy encapsulates the whole point of this conversation,especially the last sentence,and it is very funny that this whole conversation is nothing but a byproduct of fear and doubt,just like in most media and conversations these days.
Regardless of Greece leaving the Eurozone or staying in it,the Eurozone is pretty much dead,and if you fail to see it (not you personally) then you are in for a big surprise.
Germany wants to impose restrictions,and they are very good at it, but they are not ready to do for the the Eurozone anything positive (they avoid Eurobonds and QE like the plague) .
Ultimately this will lead to its destruction sooner or later.
If the black sheep of Europe though (Greece) -via its departure- becomes the force that will force Germans to stop behaving like idiots then so be it.Actually i hope this is the case but sadly it doesnt look like it.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #251 on:** July 03, 2015, 14:00 »

Germany after WWII has been the motor of Europe and most invested in the bailout of Greece. Germany has their sh!t in order, so I think they are entitled to have a big say in how things are done.

cobalt · « **Reply #252 on:** July 03, 2015, 14:57 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 03, 2015, 12:09

Quote
So the rest of europe will have to continue to wait until the greek people decide what they want and if they want to stay with us or walk away, or get closer to russia or china etc...nobody can decide that for them.
Meawhile, it looks like some northern Greeks decided to get closer to Bulgaria. Hotels and restaurants began accepting payments in Bulgarian lev (pegged to the euro since quite some time already):

https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/129438

Practical and clever. This is the kind of flexibel reaction that I expect will soon follow all over Greece.

Some people might have to swallow their pride...but money, is money...

https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/129385

"Bulgaria's prime minister Boyko Borisov said Greece's situation - the country is holding a referendum on whether to accept creditors' reform demands - has already had a political price.

"While the euro zone countries do not discipline themselves, I see no reason to rush with the membership," Borisov said in a statement, reports Reuters.

"If we were in the eurozone, we would also have to give money to Greece - the poorer would give to the richer, I do not see a logic in that," said the centre-right leader, referring to the bailouts given to Greece by its eurozone partners."

gcrook · « **Reply #253 on:** July 03, 2015, 18:03 »

Still would like to hear from someone who has his $hit in order unlike Germany,to explain to us a few things.
Two simple questions.

1)As far as foreign politics:How exactly did they manage to blatantly support Porosenko's neo-nazists in Ukraine,creating a textbook civil war, drawn from Victoria Nuland's wildest and wettest dreams.Still a hot potato on their hands that one.A foreign policy to behold.

2)As far as internal affairs and economy:After he/she has done explaining the massive mess that is Ukraine i would like him/her also to explain how
exactly they will keep pretending that they are a motor (with and without the European wagon) when they keep trying to convince themselves that the Chinese will buy all their stuff that they have a LOT of trouble exporting lately.
In fact dont even bother.I am sure that interplanetary trade is within reach and a more realistic approach for them.

I am curious to see in the foreseeable future how exactly Scheuble will convince a german society in total shock and awe,that they will need from now on to get used to "socialism" .
Part time work,etc etc (unless the german society can handle 20-25% instant unemployement without burning half the country to the ground through riots) .Not even goint to expand on public spending etc or their debt which is conveniently "hidden in a closet" .

gcrook · « **Reply #254 on:** July 03, 2015, 18:25 »

quote-modify error-disregard (sigh)

hatman12 · « **Reply #255 on:** July 03, 2015, 19:41 »

In my opinion it is likely that the Greeks will vote YES, the reason being that the past week has been a shock to them and they will be fearful of things getting even worse on a NO vote. They'll likely vote YES out of fear, and in hope that a YES vote will bring the current crisis to an end and allow banks to reopen, pensions and wages to be paid, and international transactions to begin again (which they won't).

Unfortunately all this will do is kick the can down the road, and within a few weeks or months the crisis will return again when it becomes evident that reforms aren't being implemented and the recession continues even worse as tourists avoid the country and their major source of income and employment dwindles.

cobalt · « **Reply #256 on:** July 04, 2015, 00:34 »

Quote from: gcrook on July 03, 2015, 18:03

I am curious to see in the foreseeable future how exactly Scheuble will convince a german society in total shock and awe,that they will need from now on to get used to "socialism" .
Part time work,etc etc (unless the german society can handle 20-25% instant unemployement without burning half the country to the ground through riots) .Not even goint to expand on public spending etc or their debt which is conveniently "hidden in a closet" .

Well, if that is the future of Germany, then Greece can relax and really focus on themselves now, can´t they?

No reason to expect anything from Germany or any other eurozone country.

So why not just pretend Germany doesn´t even exist and build their own country with their own people´s money now?

Not necessary to wait until Germany breaks down. Just move forward and ignore everyone else. So by the time Germany breaks down, they can send us billions in aid money.

A lot of people will vote yes and hope things will get better instantly, but of course that will not happen. If Greece gets a deal by end of the year I would be really impressed. 18 parliaments and electorates to convince. That will be very hard,especially if V and T keep insulting them all and acccuse them of waging a war on greece.

Everyone will turn away and focus on the countries that want to stay in the Eurozone or that are working really hard to clear up their house to become eligible.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #257 on:** July 04, 2015, 01:16 »

Quote from: gcrook on July 03, 2015, 18:03

Still would like to hear from someone who has his $hit in order unlike Germany,to explain to us a few things.
Two simple questions.

1)As far as foreign politics:How exactly did they manage to blatantly support Porosenko's neo-nazists in Ukraine,creating a textbook civil war, drawn from Victoria Nuland's wildest and wettest dreams.Still a hot potato on their hands that one.A foreign policy to behold.

2)As far as internal affairs and economy:After he/she has done explaining the massive mess that is Ukraine i would like him/her also to explain how
exactly they will keep pretending that they are a motor (with and without the European wagon) when they keep trying to convince themselves that the Chinese will buy all their stuff that they have a LOT of trouble exporting lately.
In fact dont even bother.I am sure that interplanetary trade is within reach and a more realistic approach for them.

I am curious to see in the foreseeable future how exactly Scheuble will convince a german society in total shock and awe,that they will need from now on to get used to "socialism" .
Part time work,etc etc (unless the german society can handle 20-25% instant unemployement without burning half the country to the ground through riots) .Not even goint to expand on public spending etc or their debt which is conveniently "hidden in a closet" .

Pro-democracy, freedom and independence movements are now neo-Nazi?
Common! Keep it real and don't fall for Kremlin's propaganda.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Nikovsk · « **Reply #258 on:** July 04, 2015, 05:16 »

Someone is watching too much CNN.

gcrook · « **Reply #259 on:** July 04, 2015, 08:34 »

Quote

Pro-democracy, freedom and independence movements are now neo-Nazi?
Common! Keep it real and don't fall for Kremlin's propaganda.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Sorry to disappoint you but i dont have any access whatsoever to Kremlin's propaganda but only to western propaganda (which i avoid like the plague) .

sharpshot · « **Reply #260 on:** July 04, 2015, 08:49 »

Quote from: hatman12 on July 03, 2015, 19:41

In my opinion it is likely that the Greeks will vote YES, the reason being that the past week has been a shock to them and they will be fearful of things getting even worse on a NO vote. They'll likely vote YES out of fear, and in hope that a YES vote will bring the current crisis to an end and allow banks to reopen, pensions and wages to be paid, and international transactions to begin again (which they won't).

Unfortunately all this will do is kick the can down the road, and within a few weeks or months the crisis will return again when it becomes evident that reforms aren't being implemented and the recession continues even worse as tourists avoid the country and their major source of income and employment dwindles.

I don't really know how voting yes would improve matters because the offer that was available might not be now. So their lenders would probably have even more demands before they gave them more money, as they would almost have to go along with them. How would the government be able to carry on having lost this referendum? Voting no seems more straightforward to me, they are very likely to end up out of the Euro, so they might as well get the pain over quickly.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #261 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:13 »

Quote from: gcrook on July 04, 2015, 08:34

Quote

Pro-democracy, freedom and independence movements are now neo-Nazi?
Common! Keep it real and don't fall for Kremlin's propaganda.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Sorry to disappoint you but i dont have any access whatsoever to Kremlin's propaganda but only to western propaganda (which i avoid like the plague) .

How candid!
You don't seem to realise how much today's "western" media and European extremism are infested with Kremlin's money. Ideology is not relevant. From the far right to the stalinist left (not surprisingly allies in Greece) from racists to Christian fundamentalists all can be on the payroll, as long as they have an anti-EU agenda.
Divide et impera!

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

gcrook · « **Reply #262 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:37 »

Quote

How candid!
You don't seem to realise how much today's "western" media and European extremism are infested with Kremlin's money. Ideology is not relevant. From the far right to the stalinist left (not surprisingly allies in Greece) from racists to Christian fundamentalists all can be on the payroll, as long as they have an anti-EU agenda.
Divide et impera!

It's better being candid that living in 2015 with cold war era's obsessions.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #263 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:40 »

Quote from: gcrook on July 04, 2015, 10:37

Quote
How candid!
You don't seem to realise how much today's "western" media and European extremism are infested with Kremlin's money. Ideology is not relevant. From the far right to the stalinist left (not surprisingly allies in Greece) from racists to Christian fundamentalists all can be on the payroll, as long as they have an anti-EU agenda.
Divide et impera!

It's better being candid that living in 2015 with cold war era's obsessions.

Says someone with WWII obsessions

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russian-european-far-right-parties-converge-in-st-petersburg/517839.html

gcrook · « **Reply #264 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:42 »

Quote

It's better being candid that living in 2015 with cold war era's obsessions.

Says someone with WWII obsessions

[/quote]

And how exactly did you arrive to this conclusion?

Zero Talent · « **Reply #265 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:48 »

Your words:

Quote

Porosenko's neo-nazists in Ukraine

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Titus Livius · « **Reply #266 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:50 »

Quote from: gcrook on July 04, 2015, 10:37

It's better being candid that living in 2015 with cold war era's obsessions.

it's funny they see Russia as the absolute evil, actually the EU needs Russia a lot more than Russia will ever need the EU.

as for Ukraine's neo na-zis suffice to say the thugs of Pravy Sektor are leading the actual puppet government ...

Titus Livius · « **Reply #267 on:** July 04, 2015, 10:58 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 04, 2015, 10:40

Says someone with WWII obsessions

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russian-european-far-right-parties-converge-in-st-petersburg/517839.html

actually the european far right supports russia as a counterbalance to NATO and the EU, not because of the cold war or communism or WW2 or whatever happened before 1989.

said that, Putin has never did anything in favour of russian or foreign neo * and nationalists in general, actually under his rule russia approved several anti-racism laws designed to keep the far right at bay .. the kind of national pride encouraged under Putin is of the "czarist" type.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #268 on:** July 04, 2015, 11:10 »

Quote from: Titus Livius on July 04, 2015, 10:50

Quote from: gcrook on July 04, 2015, 10:37
It's better being candid that living in 2015 with cold war era's obsessions.

it's funny they see Russia as the absolute evil, actually the EU needs Russia a lot more than Russia will ever need the EU.

as for Ukraine's neo na-zis suffice to say the thugs of Pravy Sektor are leading the actual puppet government ...

What is funny is to see how those who try to cut the strings are called puppets.
When they succed, they are either risking an assassination attempt like Viktor Yushchenko or a military assault, like Poroshenko.
All this when it is so obvious that Viktor Yanukovych was the very definition of a puppet president.

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gcrook · « **Reply #269 on:** July 04, 2015, 11:17 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 04, 2015, 10:48

Your words:
Quote
Porosenko's neo-nazists in Ukraine

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Oh i see now...oh boy.Sorry but this so hillariously out of context (like most comments here) that made me laugh out loud.Ok i wont call them neo-* from now on,
even though if you look again you will realize that thats how they describe themselfes (proudly),and thats exactly what they are (in heritage,practices,and ideas) but lets scratch that.

So these "pro-democracy fighters" then as we all know by now were willing pro-freedom patriots sworn to bash Putins troll and literal army and trained excessively for many years in the forests of Poland.The sig-heil gestures,the swasticas and shaved heads and all the "oh my they look like neonazis" apparel in photos we can find readily available seem to be a peculiar hipster lifestyle but kudos to them for being different and standing up to Russian lifestyle trends.

So these "really not ideological and literal descendands of Stepan Bandera" ,oops i meant pro-freedom activists "suddenly and unexpectedly" found a place the Ukrainian army because the army was in a sorry state full of Putin's robots unwilling to "bomb their fellow citizens" oops i meant bring freedom, and they were sacked,thankfully.
Some of these pro-freedom fighters were so "thick sculled" oops i meant romanticists drunk from the historical significance that were unsuited to join the army and were funded directly by various oligarchs like the patriot european citizen Kolomoisky a man of true virtue who was directly responsible for the "democratic" procedures in Odessa.Hagiography of this great man here from a communist infiltrated media.http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-1403886665
After all it is obvious that Odessa was nothing else but a pro-freedom movement,too bad that in democracies some people will have to be burned alive and gutted by freedom fighters.

Still waiting for those who still believe that Russia invaded and democratic forces fought back.
Tip:Dont bother, western media after their hillarious blunders to prove the unprovable backed down long ago and have been whistling in infifference lately trying to swallow their massive *uckups.Like in the Malaysian airlines insident.Really one has to wonder.If they have such strong evidence on Russia throwing a rocket why haven't the "unbiased" black-box reports seen the light of day?I mean there is no stronger case to redeem Eu and USA that this right?
Carry on,i just lost interest again.

Nikovsk · « **Reply #270 on:** July 04, 2015, 11:46 »

Poroshenko himself admitted that overthrow of Yanukovych was a coup. Besides, it wasn't Putin who took all the gold from the ukrainian central bank. George Soros paid a visit to Ukraine and now the nobel peace prize winner Obama is crazy to start (another) full scale war. Ukraine today is ruled by foreigners. NATO/EU are our true enemies here, by the time most people realize it will be too late.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-22/ukraine%E2%80%99s-president-poroshenko-admits-overthrow-yanukovych-was-coup

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #271 on:** July 04, 2015, 12:00 »

Meanwhile...

Greek Bailout Fund
€1,782,092
raised by 101,062 people in 7 days

https://www.indiegogo.com/greek-bailout-fund.html

Nikovsk · « **Reply #272 on:** July 04, 2015, 12:09 »

Only €275 billion to go.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-30/there-one-small-problem-greek-crowdfunded-bailout-campaign

CatTheCat · « **Reply #273 on:** July 04, 2015, 12:13 »

Since they were elected, what changes greek government have implemented to combat the corruption and the taxes invasion?
They spend their time in European reunions, they don't present serious proposals, how they expect their country to be sustainable? They need to be sustainable to avoid the unhealthy financial system. When they are not in reunions they go to TV and Twitter telling the europeans are terrorist. They closed the banks for a week and they go to TV telling the greeks it is Europe fault. Eurozone is not only Germany and France, it is mainly countries with smaller monthly minimum wage, and surely where you don't pay 2 euros for a coffee... That government is not showing any respect or consideration for the other countries (what kind of democracy is this?) and I think this situation is going to a wrong direction for the greek people, both for the YES or NO perspective.
They only talk of debt restructuring, how many debt restructuring they had already? They don't make changes in their country to limit their expanses, they just need to ask for debt restructuring once a year.

Honestly, if I see only in a personal interest, it's better for me that Greece don't leave the euro because it weaknen the euro.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #274 on:** July 04, 2015, 12:41 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 04, 2015, 11:10

All this when it is so obvious that Viktor Yanukovych was the very definition of a puppet president.

but that's the norm almost anywhere.

unless you happen to be a sovereign world power your ruling elite will be always kept by the bal-ls from the world powers and the international banking system, one way or another you will be a puppet of someone who has no interest in the well being of your nation.

nobody can join the ruling elite without being "backed" by local or international power lobbies.
he may try his best to be fair but utimately he has to answer to his backers and to protect their interests, this is true in politics and even more in the business world.

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Author Topic: GO Greece! (Read 101220 times)

gcrook

Semmick Photo

cobalt

gcrook

gcrook

hatman12

cobalt

Zero Talent

Nikovsk

gcrook

sharpshot

Zero Talent

gcrook

Zero Talent

gcrook

Zero Talent

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

Zero Talent

gcrook

Nikovsk

KnowYourOnions

Nikovsk

CatTheCat

Titus Livius

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