Author Topic: GO Greece! (Read 83853 times)

Titus Livius · « **Reply #400 on:** July 08, 2015, 06:53 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 08, 2015, 06:35

Everyone in Europe will have to help pay for the mistake of letting them in.

well, if greece was a mistake then what about Romania or Lithuania or ... ?

when i was young the EU was supposed to be a club for industrial and developed country, then suddenly there were talks of inglobating even Morocco or Moldova !

and everyone had a very hard time to understand how could these countries ever meet the minimum requirements to join the union, but the whole mainstream propaganda machine was hammering us day and night pushing for the Euro at all costs.

actually we were not afraid of that, but we were afraid of being flooded by millions of impoverished eastern europeans, which of course happened as expected and almost overnight.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #401 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:00 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 08, 2015, 05:47

Tsirpas gave a really bad performance.

what else to expect, he's a former Communist youth and Syriza is the reincarnation of the greek communist party.

they took power out of the desperation of the greek people, either they vote for Syriza or for the neo-fascist Golden Dawn ... they've no other options as the Pasok and its political leftovers are responsible for throwing the country down the toilet.

as for the greek people, either they migrate or they scrap the very bottom of the barrel but it wouldn't be honest to blame them all for the Pasok's disasters, at least half of them never voted Pasok or never voted at all ... this kind of collective guilt makes no sense just as it's pointless to accuse the germans for the Nazi era or the russians for stalin or the chinese for Maoism.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #402 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:04 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on July 08, 2015, 04:47

This is how the EU gets a bad reputation.

of course, because unscrupolous manifacturers will produce fake or imitations of traditional foods and due to these new EU laws it will be perfectly legal, just as it's the norm for imitations of french and italian cheese, olive oil, wine, liquors, and much more.

Cesar · « **Reply #403 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:15 »

they will run out of food in Greece

Nikovsk · « **Reply #404 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:43 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on July 08, 2015, 02:38

Lets not forget, all countries using the Euro agreed to the terms to join. No one was forced into joining. Its still a democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union#Euro

Actually no, we were all forced into this bad joke called the euro. Countries like Latvia and Lithuania joined as recently as 2014/2015 despite mass opposition from the people. Only Sweden and Denmark ever had a referendum on the issue, and the euro was rejected by both countries.

cobalt · « **Reply #405 on:** July 08, 2015, 08:03 »

Here is an overview of what is legally required to even get a third bailout started. And many parliaments are already in summer break. So first Greece has to persuade the heads of state and finance ministers that "this time" they will be really serious and do something...and then these have to convince their parliaments. In Finland and Estonia they will need an absolute majority. How likely is that?

The greek government has known this all the time, but decided to run away last minute and hold their "referendum" instead of making a deal.

I think Grexit is inevitable, I hope they have the sense to do it together with the EU instead of persuing their aggressive and hysterical attacks on the people who are ready to give them even more money.

the BRIC states just announced, that helping Greece is no option for them.

CatTheCat · « **Reply #406 on:** July 08, 2015, 09:25 »

Tsipras is treated like some kind of hero or Jesus...
https://www.facebook.com/ichbingrieche/videos/423895067795434/

cobalt · « **Reply #407 on:** July 08, 2015, 09:36 »

They seem to adore him. Which would be fine if he would use his leadership skills to actually lead Greece out of the crisis. But him and V seem more interested in building their fanclubs instead of getting things done.

We don´t have to understand it. The people in Greece have to live with him.

CatTheCat · « **Reply #408 on:** July 08, 2015, 09:43 »

look at this video:
https://www.facebook.com/GuyVerhofstadt/videos/10153988726765016/

Belgian politician Guy Verhofstadt told some hard words to Tsipras.
I think in Europe they should not be afraid to speak what must be told, what they really think.

cobalt · « **Reply #409 on:** July 08, 2015, 09:49 »

I watched it live. Tsirpas didn´t look happy.

Nikovsk · « **Reply #410 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:45 »

At least Tsipras stood up to the banksters. Better than any Merkel, Hollande, Renzi and other useless idiots we currently have in the government. But yes he has no clue whatsoever, for starters he's a communist. When the "far right" aka common sense parties start taking seats in Europe, then we'll see some real progress.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #411 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:54 »

Quote from: Nikovsk on July 08, 2015, 10:45

At least Tsipras stood up to the banksters. Better than any Merkel, Hollande, Renzi and other useless idiots we currently have in the government. But yes he has no clue whatsoever, for starters he's a communist. When the "far right" aka common sense parties start taking seats in Europe, then we'll see some real progress.

Ask your friend to lend you 100 euros and then tell him to feck off when he is asking it back. See how long that friendship lasts.

Keep calling the people who want to help you an idiot and soon there will be no one left to call idiots.

Nikovsk · « **Reply #412 on:** July 08, 2015, 11:20 »

The debt is unpayable. €275 billion for a country of 11 million people. That's €25k per person, including babies and retirees. Greece needs to default and start printing drachmas, something that should've been done 5 years ago. Today is Greece, tomorrow could/will be Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, France.

The ECB is printing 1 trillion euros exclusively to the banks anyway, and nobody cares. Why the people should pay the price for idiotic deals between corrupt governments and sick eurocrats?

CatTheCat · « **Reply #413 on:** July 08, 2015, 12:42 »

Even if Greece defaults and start printing drachmas, if the country doesn't change what should be changed, sooner or later they will be in trouble again. And when the defense minister Panos Kammenos, came to the point to treathening Europe that if Europe don't help them, they would let jihadists passing through... (But then the europeans are the terrorists, right...) Well, the future is ugly anyway.

The big problem here is when a country governor and the population doesn't want to accept the necessity to implement changes. Perhaps because a majority wins directly or undirectly with the privileges, corruption, big public expenses. Certainly politicians included. It would have to be a really courageous politician to implement those kind of changes, he would be unpopular and Tsipras doesn't seems to be that guy.

gostwyck · « **Reply #414 on:** July 08, 2015, 13:55 »

Quote from: Nikovsk on July 08, 2015, 11:20

The debt is unpayable. €275 billion for a country of 11 million people. That's €25k per person, including babies and retirees. Greece needs to default and start printing drachmas, something that should've been done 5 years ago. Today is Greece, tomorrow could/will be Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, France.

The ECB is printing 1 trillion euros exclusively to the banks anyway, and nobody cares. Why the people should pay the price for idiotic deals between corrupt governments and sick eurocrats?

The Greek debt is not 'unpayable'. Greece spends €45B on state pensions with a population of 11M. In contrast the UK (which is reasonably generous) spends €80B on state pensions with a population of 66M. Greece is spending over 3x more per person than the UK on pensions despite the cost of living in Greece being about half that of the UK.

If Greece were to reduce their spending on pensions to UK levels, relative to population size, then they could pay off their entire debt in about 10 years.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #415 on:** July 08, 2015, 19:28 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on July 08, 2015, 10:54

Ask your friend to lend you 100 euros and then tell him to feck off when he is asking it back. See how long that friendship lasts.

that's not so easy.
Syriza was totally against the IMF loans years ago as they forecasted they could not be paid back and they would kill greece.

now they're in power and you expect them to play fair ? not gonna happen.

i mean nothing is going to happen in any case, as greece is a Nato member she's untouchable, even Obama this morning pressured the EU in order to not Fk with greece.

dont forget greece is nothing more than a US protectorate with american military bases in its territory, nobody can Fk with greece too much, and the EU won't be allowed to push it too far against american interests in the region.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #416 on:** July 08, 2015, 19:29 »

Quote from: Nikovsk on July 08, 2015, 11:20

The ECB is printing 1 trillion euros exclusively to the banks anyway, and nobody cares. Why the people should pay the price for idiotic deals between corrupt governments and sick eurocrats?

because they accept being paid in Euros instead of Gold or other forms of currency.
a currency is valuable only as long as it's widely accepted in exchange for goods or labor.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #417 on:** July 08, 2015, 19:33 »

Quote from: CatTheCat on July 08, 2015, 12:42

Even if Greece defaults and start printing drachmas, if the country doesn't change what should be changed, sooner or later they will be in trouble again.

No, because they would print tons of new drachmas, just as Japan is doing with the Yen since 1945 and same for the US with the Dollar, nobody even know how many dollars are in circulation, they could print a few trillios more and you wouldnt notice.

Titus Livius · « **Reply #418 on:** July 08, 2015, 19:38 »

Quote from: Nikovsk on July 08, 2015, 11:20

The debt is unpayable. €275 billion for a country of 11 million people.

yes and so they will default, simple as that.
Varoufakis has been very clear about not giving a single euro back.

and guess what, today Tsipras asked for more billions in loans, it means he's not paying back anything, just doubling down and asking for more, when the money will be spent he will ask for even more, both parties know very well the game is rigged and it's a scam and a Ponzi.

there were warnings about banks doing all this already in the 19th century, it's nothing new and there's a vast literature about this topic.

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #419 on:** July 08, 2015, 22:02 »

Meanwhile in Greece...

Increasingly concerned that greater economic trouble lies ahead of them, and limited in how much cash they can take out of banks, Greeks have been using their debit cards to buy ovens, refrigerators, dishwashers — anything tangible that can hold its value in troubled times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/world/europe/greeks-spend-droves-afraid-losing-savings-bailout.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

(there is no end to this thread)

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #420 on:** July 09, 2015, 04:30 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH5Yv7iwfhs

PS good to see you back gostwyck, thought we'd lost another one!

Titus Livius · « **Reply #421 on:** July 09, 2015, 05:05 »

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on July 08, 2015, 22:02

anything tangible that can hold its value in troubled times.

the cost of living is not the issue.

the issue is the lack of jobs and there's no fix for that.

as much as now they hate germany many greeks will end up cleaning toilets in Berlin or Munich as that's where the jobs are.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #422 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:31 »

Quote from: Titus Livius on July 09, 2015, 05:05

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on July 08, 2015, 22:02
anything tangible that can hold its value in troubled times.

the cost of living is not the issue.

the issue is the lack of jobs and there's no fix for that.

as much as now they hate germany many greeks will end up cleaning toilets in Berlin or Munich as that's where the jobs are.

Actually there is.
For starters, the government must liberalize all those "closed" professions, from taxi drivers to notaries and hundreds of other. But unions don't like competition. And communist governments are in bed with unions.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Titus Livius · « **Reply #423 on:** July 09, 2015, 07:30 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 09, 2015, 06:31

Actually there is.
For starters, the government must liberalize all those "closed" professions, from taxi drivers to notaries and hundreds of other. But unions don't like competition. And communist governments are in bed with unions.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

sure, in the long term they will have to open up their internal market but it's too late, those who can have already left greece and all the others will soon have to choose between starvation or migration.

anyway, as i wrote already Obama is officially pushing the EU to cancel the entire greek's debt so as i forecasted greece will be bailed out by Nato even if it could end with a Grexit in one way or another.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-urges-germany-greece-to-compromise-on-emergency-financing-1436295484

Nikovsk · « **Reply #424 on:** July 09, 2015, 08:10 »

Must watch, 4 minute speech by Nigel Farage:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-09/nigel-farage-destroys-eu-group-think-just-4-minutesthere-new-berlin-wall-and-its-cal

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Author Topic: GO Greece! (Read 83853 times)

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

Cesar

Nikovsk

cobalt

CatTheCat

cobalt

CatTheCat

cobalt

Nikovsk

Semmick Photo

Nikovsk

CatTheCat

gostwyck

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

Titus Livius

KnowYourOnions

Justanotherphotographer

Titus Livius

Zero Talent

Titus Livius

Nikovsk

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