MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: RacePhoto on September 22, 2011, 09:41
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"On March 31, 2011, Full Tilt owed approximately $390 million to players around the world, including $150 million to U.S.-based players, but the company had just $60 million in its bank account, the government said in its filing Tuesday."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576582741398633386.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576582741398633386.html)
Owners took pay and payments, billing was haphazard, eventually they owed much more than they had. (see the first paragraph) The prosecutors call it a Ponzi Scheme. The major problem, aside from draining the company profits and the processing companies in effect stealing $45 million, was the problems processing deposits.
This has nothing to do with Microstock, thus OFF TOPIC, but imagine if a smaller agency suddenly had requests for payouts and didn't have the float of uncashed commissions. More interesting was Lucky Oliver when they went out of business, paying, everyone, every cent, even though they shut down and many had insignificant amounts due. I still admire them for that.
It does make me wonder if some of the Low Earners would be shut down by commissions requests, if they had to pay off everything they owed. The big ones, I'm not as worried, they seem to have a building full of attorneys, thinking up new ways to make life difficult for us. ;)
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8 months back, I won 35K, on poker stars. good enough for me.
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I'm still shocked by what's happened with Full Tilt. They were owned by respected poker players. With hindsight, perhaps not a good idea, as they like to gamble with lots of money.
I do wonder what would happen if everyone cashed all their money out of the sites at the same time. Most of them have high enough payout levels to keep a lot of cash that they owe contributors but is that just in bank accounts doing nothing?
I like to cash out as soon as I hit a payout level, it doesn't feel like the money is real until it's in my bank account.
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I'm still shocked by what's happened with Full Tilt. They were owned by respected poker players. With hindsight, perhaps not a good idea, as they like to gamble with lots of money.
I do wonder what would happen if everyone cashed all their money out of the sites at the same time. Most of them have high enough payout levels to keep a lot of cash that they owe contributors but is that just in bank accounts doing nothing?
I like to cash out as soon as I hit a payout level, it doesn't feel like the money is real until it's in my bank account.
With SS and IS, I wait until I feel like it's a good time to collect. Both have always paid fast, through PayPal, no problems.
Anywhere else, in the past, I set it to the minimum and took it ASAP! :D Now it's a matter of when I collect, I'm closing the accounts. The little ones were fun, I don't produce enough, they don't sell enough, I won't encourage the race to the bottom and the big crash when a few places get there at the same time. Fewer, bigger agencies, who produce returns, are more reliable and stabilizing, than hundreds of Mom and Pop sites with limited financial backing.
Don't anyone come back crying when the small agencies start to fail and are unable to make payouts. It's going to happen eventually. That's why people don't carry water in a paper bag. It's bound to have the bottom fall out eventually. :o What agency monitors microstock and regulates it? OK that's the answer!
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respected poker players.
Occasionally I read something that is truly funny.
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I am sick about this to be honest. I've played on Full Tilt Poker since it's early beginning. I've played with most of those big time guys online and some of them in cash tournaments. I read somewhere that Howard Lederer cashed out with $42,000,000.00 and Chris Ferguson with $87,500,000.00 before bailing!
Sadly for me I live in the state of Washington where thanks to our insightful Governor <sarcasm> playing internet poker is a felony with consequences equivalent to felons exchanging child pornography. As a result, access to Full Tilt has been blocked by the Government here for some time now. They have been holding a chunk of my money for well over a year now.
Online poker is a multi-billion dollar industry. Why states are not tapping into it is beyond me. We've got small, hole-in-the-wall dive casinos on practically every corner and the Indian Casinos are thriving because of the restrictions the state has. I truly believe we could solve many of our debt problems by simply giving people what they want.
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gambling, while fun and addicting, ruins lives. nuff said
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gambling, while fun and addicting, ruins lives. nuff said
"nuff said"
That is an ignorant statement. Gambling certainly can ruin lives. Watch the (awesome) movie Owning Mahoney. There is an example for sure. That being said, many things can ruin lives. Lets ban alcohol! Heck, lets ban cars..when used improperly they too can ruin lives. I don't need the government telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing. Gambling isn't going away. Why not tax it and put the (billions) money towards help programs for those that are unable to control their impulsive behavior.
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gambling, while fun and addicting, ruins lives. nuff said
... which was essentially the argument that justified Prohibition. What a great success that programme was. Nuff said.
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gambling, while fun and addicting, ruins lives. nuff said
... which was essentially the argument that justified Prohibition. What a great success that programme was. Nuff said.
... still the lives are ruined, prohibition or not, never nuff said.
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... still the lives are ruined, prohibition or not, never nuff said.
More lives were certainly ruined by the crime wave that resulted and anyway far more alcohol was probably consumed during Prohibition than before it. Making things illegal usually makes them more popular.
It's essentially the same issue we have with illicit substances in the US/UK today. Such vast sums of money are made by those who peddle drugs that they can easily buy their way through any system of control. We can't even maintain a single drug-free prison, much less a drug-free society. What makes it even worse is the petty crime of addicts (who were created by the pushers) and the gun crime of the pushers defending territories from others.
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sensitive arent we? please dont take my statement to mean that i am against gambling. i do my fair share of gambling once or twice a year at vegas. Im just happy the temptation for me not to log in at pokerstars everyday is gone. I have played countless hours of poker for about a year online 2 years ago and was even tempted to do that fulltime as i was up quite a lot of money at one point. But as usual, you win some and you lose some. But i came to the conclusion after playing online for about a year(usually playing anywhere from 4-6 games at once) that it really was a big waste of time and energy for me. Stressful job at that too.
I never fully trusted playing poker online anyways as there seemed to be very little regulations in this industry. how are you going to tax internet gambling when all these sites operate outside of usa?
"... which was essentially the argument that justified Prohibition. What a great success that programme was. Nuff said."
??? prohibition was an all out ban on alcohol??? this isnt a ban on gambling. you can still gamble, just not at your house.
Anyone with a small bit of IQ knows gambling is pretty addictive. Do we really need such easy access to it from our homes? I wish i can have those hundreds of hours of my life back and i didnt even lose!
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. how are you going to tax internet gambling when all these sites operate outside of usa?
Do we really need such easy access to it from our homes?
I think it would be amazing if individual states ran internet poker sites. The revenue could go to schools or maybe help fund the prisons loaded with people arrested for smoking marijuana.
Do we need to access gambling from sleazy, dark casinos filled with shady characters? They are everywhere in Washington. Don't get me wrong, there are beautiful, lush Vegas-like casinos ran by Indian tribes too but the most common casino here is very sketchy. I would much rather hang out with a cup of coffee in my pj's and play a few sit-n-go tournaments than worry about getting stabbed in the neck by a twitchy crackhead.
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Speaking of addictive, these * forums are ruining me.
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Speaking of addictive, these forums are ruining me.
They should be banned by the government!
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gambling, while fun and addicting, ruins lives. nuff said
"nuff said"
That is an ignorant statement. Gambling certainly can ruin lives. Watch the (awesome) movie Owning Mahoney. There is an example for sure. That being said, many things can ruin lives. Lets ban alcohol! Heck, lets ban cars..when used improperly they too can ruin lives. I don't need the government telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing. Gambling isn't going away. Why not tax it and put the (billions) money towards help programs for those that are unable to control their impulsive behavior.
I don't mind a beer or two but cars are banned from inside my house
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. how are you going to tax internet gambling when all these sites operate outside of usa?
Do we really need such easy access to it from our homes?
I think it would be amazing if individual states ran internet poker sites. The revenue could go to schools or maybe help fund the prisons loaded with people arrested for smoking marijuana.
that will never happen due to politics. Plenty of people will object (conservatives?) to state operated gambling sites and will just use this as another example of govt control.
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that will never happen due to politics. Plenty of people will object (conservatives?) to state operated gambling sites and will just use this as another example of govt control.
It works in Monaco. The residents of Monaco pay no taxes because all services are funded via the state-run casino, although the Monagasques themselves are not allowed to gamble there. The tax situation is the main reason why Monaco is such a haven for the seriously wealthy.
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I'm watching Rounders. There's a nice quote by Canada Bill Jones "It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money". Unfortunately, some of the microstock sites seem to live by that quote :)
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Oh no. The two life rules I set for myself as a teenager were 'Never be a square' and 'Never be a sucker'.
Ah well, I still have 'Never be a square'.
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. how are you going to tax internet gambling when all these sites operate outside of usa?
Do we really need such easy access to it from our homes?
I think it would be amazing if individual states ran internet poker sites. The revenue could go to schools or maybe help fund the prisons loaded with people arrested for smoking marijuana.
that will never happen due to politics. Plenty of people will object (conservatives?) to state operated gambling sites and will just use this as another example of govt control.
Funny it's the liberals in this state who are all worried about what we eat, (as in Kids Meals and those meddling folks) how we drive, what we drink, who gambles and oh by the way, took a payoff from the Indians to block another tribe from opening a casino and then grated an eternity tribal compact with the tribes that were operating. Please don't blame those Bible thumping Southern conservatives, we have just the opposite around here. LOL
Note about prohibition that people often miss. It wasn't illegal to drink it was illegal to produce or sell. Home possession and consumption for personal use was allowed under the law. It was a long running non-partisan effort from before WW I and even longer, before the turn of the century. For those who car, Carrie Nation (the lady with the axe, who chopped up saloons) died in 1905. This wasn't a quick decision, even though I'd agree it was a poorly conceived idea. Prohibition lasted from 1919 to 1933.
About gambling, which is where this started. It's the same as prohibition. Banning things doesn't make them go away, it usually makes them go underground, where organized crime takes over and also makes the situation worse. I go to Las Vegas, Reno and have been other places. I live less than ten miles from a casino, that has poker, roulette and all the games (some Tribal casinos do not) and don't go there, except for the excellent buffet. Thanks gamblers you make my dinner cheaper. I've never played online poker, but I have played after hours in a bar. I don't have a gambling habit, don't play slots in the bars. Heck, I go to bars for the TV and usually don't drink while I'm there. (what a Weenie! Drinking diet Coke, watching football, using the free internet?) ::)